5 Worst Units Challenge (One for each level)
 

Step 1: We decide on the worst 5 units in the game (one for each level 1 to 5)
Step 2: We challenge people to beat the game exclusively using those units, on impossible difficulty.

My picks:

1. Peasant (Maybe venomous spiders?)
2. Miner
3. Dwarf
4. Ent
5. Ancient Ent

Maybe it's time for you to move on to another game, until the next expansion comes out? ;)

I would actually say the worst pick for level 5 are giants, but not in the context of an impossible challenge. Actually, for me, this might just be the worst unit in the game period. Poor fellas.

ain't peasant prettty good level 1 units?

assuming they got a huge attack bonus in big numbers and such

(teamspirit)

Blasphemy! (Actually I just came back to AP after playing other things for like 9 months).

Giants may be worse than Ancient Ents. I've honestly only used either of them sparingly.

And peasants are pretty darn bad. Attack bonus' aren't going to help them deal with frailty issues and the inability to get to important targets when you need them to. What would you consider a worse level 1 unit? Devilfish Maybe?

Devilfish is indeed not a good unit... it has the illusion of being a good choice for a new player, having more speed and offensive power, and is awarded after completing a quest, giving the impression that you are supposed to buy them.

I did that in my first game (Paladin)... the amount of dead fish, gold spent and traveling time wasted... >_<

Ents and Ancient Ents have shitty movement and have that whole fire weakness thing but they do a lot of damage in both long range and close combat and have great defense. If they had good movement, they would be one of the best level 5 units. same with regular ents. the worst level 5 unit is definitely an ogre. they are just way to fragile. for level 4 units i suggest alchemist or demoness's. in the original, you could get angas ruby and demoness's were ok but they just get killed so easially (besides when being attacked by male humanoids). Alchemist just suck all around. for the leadership cost, they do no damage, have no defense, and just blow ass. for level 3 units, either dwarves or bears. Bears would probably be worse though. for level 2 units, robbers are always shitty to have. i suggest one of the spiders for level 1 creatures

and in the mean time until you get the setup what units can we use ?

also maybe a different varaint of this cahllenge ?
How about we define the worst unit of every unit role (support, tank, damage dealer) and then we play with the worst unit per role of the perfereed setup:
1 tank
2 damage dealer
2 support

Alchemists are no retaliation units that can hit multiple stacks at a time, and have high chances of doing aftereffect damage to those stacks. You give them the little Gift Bag item, and they are like little dragons.

Demoness' actually might be worse than Ents, actually. They have an impressive array of abilities, but most level 4's are pretty good, so I'm not sure.

Ogres might be the worst level 5, assuming you don't have an army that knows how to combo with them. (Similar to Demoness).

ok well here is an idea. Put undead and demons in the army to lower the morale of the rest of the units. Ogres are bad units to begin with but if you have an ogre with 50%- defense, attack, and pretty much no critical attack, they really suck. Since your not going for no losses, (it would be litterally impossible to do with this setup) make the armies morale suffer. maybe use a demoness and skeleton for level 1 and 4 units to drop morale of the rest of the troops, ogre for level 5 unit, (i dont know if neutral races such as bears suffer morale penalties for undead and demons but if not maybe use orcs for level 3 units), and miners for level 2 units. I would imagine that it would be a bitch to beat with this army. Good luck with that

i think in comparsion leadership to damage
peasants scored relatively high(at least used to be the best leadership damage factor) in legend

dunno if this is changed in kb:ap



a very epic set up would be

royal thorn/ents/ancient ents/thorn warriors/thorn shooters

this setup would be a pain in the ass;)

no ressucrection possible(at least not the easy way)

only time back would work

and think again of all the fire damage it takes hahah

anyone beating the game with this setup is epic;)

doing this without losses is impossible i would say :p

yea but the undead would be screwed against this army. necromancer cant ressurect any of them and bone dragons would barely do any damage since they all have such high resistance to poisen. Dragons would tear this army a new asshole but thats where spells like death star come in. Thier fire weakness is critical but each one of those units do fantastic damage for thier leadership and have pretty danm good defense. The royal thorns can summon thorns to soak up some damage and gain rage while the ents, ancient ents, and thorn shooters would decimate the enemy army. Besides, you could get that scroll from elon which gives a huge bonus to all thorns and ents. That would actually be a pretty good army if used right. Fighting any dragons would be a real pain in the ass though

i beg to differ

the point is U CANNOT resurrect any of em:P

so whatever damage your taking is a loss unless time back:P

and most are slow(thorn and ents)

warriors and shooters are the only fast ones
but they die VERY fast;-)

and even with the royal thorn spawning
it pretty hard doing this no loss :D

no loss?! i thought we are just talking about just beating the game. No that would not be possible. Time back works only for a few rounds prior. even if you kill baal and just have a small stack of imps you still couldn't get back all of your units because it takes how many rounds just to kill baal and his minions. Beating enemy heroes would work up until the final boss battles but you just would not be able to do it. my army through out the entire game always consist of dragons (bone,black,red, and green) and archdemons. This is the best army for crushing anyone as a mage. when you fight demons, you cast greasy mist to lower thier fire resistance and crush them and when you fight enemy heroes who cast geyser all the time, drop all your units off excepts one stack of black dragons and just run away from the units while casting fear, fire rain, and ball of lightning. Having all level 5 units also gives you advantage of casting fear on all troops besides level 5. Its quick, its easy, and it just works. You obviously cant ressurect any of them which is why i change the troops when fighting baal or k'tahuu. Anyways, i digress. The plant army is not possible when doing an impossible no loss challenge.

could be with 1 single stack invisiblity of any of these units:P
^^

but then again baal and k'thatu xD
need alot of mana xD

Let's not worry about no loss, it isn't a realistic expectation with the worst units in the game.

Peasant damage is significantly worse than it looks, as they never get to attack first :P.

yea beating K'tahuu in and of itself would be almost if not impossible with those units. Besides, there would be no way to get past the units blocking the way to other islands. Its extremely difficult to beat those armies even when using all of your resources that early in the game. When you have a mage in rusty anchor who only has fire arrow that does 500 damage and really shitty units, its so hard. Kiting is a possibility but whats the point to travel to other islands if your only going to make your army weaker than it already is? This is a challenge that would seem to make the game less fun and more frustrating than it already is. I think ill just wait for KB:CW to come out:grin: besides, Im getting ready to take my PCAT's anyways so im going to have to ween my way away from this game for a little bit. Its like getting an infant off of a binkie

I was about to try this when something occurred to me. The biggest danger could be running out of a given unit type. I mean, if you choose Devilfish as your level 1, there may not BE even close to enough to build an army later on in the game. Not sure if 'cheating' to get a 'bad' army makes sense.

Here's what I'm going to use:

1 Devilfish (Ultimately I think they may end up being worse overall than peasants)
2 Miners
3 Bears
4 Demoness
5 Ogres

meh that´s a pretty good setup:P

use demoness to swap the fuckers

use phantom to the fullest
and smack the stacks :)


bears/ogres/miners bashing the targets that has been swapped is pure gosuness:)
^^

edit

i would swap demoness for foreman

(demoness got quite good skills)

You think Foremen + Miners is a 'worst 5' combo?

And seriously, anything other than Demoness' is going to be strong without the need to swap.

So far it has been very challenging. I've only found Bears and Devilfish (through bola). Clearing out Scarlet and Debir using only two stacks of terrible units. I'm starting to think though that bears are better than dwarves.

Casualties are almost unavoidable (Paladin) without archers or spell damage. I'm not sure if I'm even going to be able to get grand strategy. Maybe if I get an Ogre soon.

Got some good luck though, in that there was a knights shield nearby. That 300 extra leadership is making quite the difference so far. I may invest in Glory quickly.

How about berserkers for a lvl 2 unit..?
Nothing beats a low-def unit ramboing into the enemy with their 5 speed in round 1.
And Gobots? Sure its a ranged unit, but they die as fast and hit as hard as a peasent but cost tripple the leadership?

Anyway good luck on a tremendously annoying game!

switch the miners for beserkers and go with the foreman

i prefer a demoness above a foreman

why?

a demoness can seduce some troops

and swap units

which makes it very usefull

and it has a distant attack with no retal

(and u forgot that humanoids got a chance to miss the demoness)

all in all abilities of the demoness>foremann easily

the reason why i choose a demoness is because they give a negative morale bonus to the rest of the troops i picked. If you pick skeleton warriors and a demon for two slots, the rest of the army will have terrible morale. Foreman do have a slow speed but they are also tanks. Demoness's die like level one units and thier swapping ability can be good, but when your army sucks in the first place you would want to keep the enemy army as far away from you as possible until you can widdle them away with spells and rage skills.

I could see Berserkers. I haven't used a level 2 unit yet (or a level 4) so it wouldn't corrupt the game (though it'd make me feel silly for doing most of Debir with 2 stacks only).

+Berserkers
+Foremen
-Miners
-Demoness

I think that is going to be worse.

Amusingly, This is starting to look like a really high initiative army.

i beg to differ on that

mostly cause a beserker is inctrotable?(which means u can't cast spells or use rage on his turn)


foreman has decent initative but then again it is also very slow

i wonder if u are able to complete it with this setup

since foreman are very late and giants possibly too...

your limited yourself to devilfish(which has limited quantities, assuming they die very often) and bears same story although they die less often

i think this setup would work better with a warrior due to higher leadership issues

the beginning CAN be very tedious
but props for your efforts!:)

maybe can u give me a save file i will try it also:)

better comparsion then :D:D:

Well, Foreman have init 7, so do Devilfish. Berserkers have 6. Ogres have 6. That's pretty high. Bears not so great.

I did get the +1 init to animals dragon, which apparently doesn't effect devilfish. There goes my init 8 starter.

with this army your best bet is to group them all together to protect one another. Speed is not essential at all since they probably aren't going to be moved much. Initiative is however important since we want to use rage and spells as much as possible and as soon as possible to have any chance of winning. Who the hell is going to beat a group of dragons with devilfish and berserkers? beserkers are idiots so you can expect to lose the entire stack on each fight. i dont think it would be possible if your a warrior. You have to be able to utilize all spells or your going to lose...bad.

Berserkers are just too terrible. This isn't workable with them :(. Not only are they a unit with bad stats for its leadership (less HP than leadership) but they don't let you plan out the battle intelligently. Oh, and since I can't get an easy map to Verona, I have only 3/5ths of a full army (bears, fish, berserkers) and they are the worst 3/5ths no less.

Maybe if I had a way to reproduce the units without end? perhaps, maybe?

Update: I realized I was doing this completely backwards, and so restarted, this time going straight for Resurrection skill. Yes, Berserkers may die like crazy... but if you can rezz them at the end of combat, you won't run out.

And then.. this crazy thing happened: I found a blood of the goddess in a stump in Bola. 700 Extra leadership in the early game helped SO much.

Kited maps once I got to Verona (first time I've ever done it) and ended up with maps of all islands except for nameless and Montero (of course). So now I've done all those no-fight quests, and am back to cleaning up pre-Verona area. Got some ogres, got rezz level 3. Starting to feel very workable. The resurrection skill also makes Sacrifice Spell stupidly easy to use. WE aren't going for 'no loss' so just sack the unit that you've lost this combat to fill out your army.

i bet u sacrfice all beserkers lol:D

Don't have the mana for it, but I do sacrifice from them a lot :P. Especially since there are limited amounts of the other creatures. I'm going to have SOO many losses at the end of the game, haha.

Well, this is one of the weirdest games I've played by far at this point.

I'm level 24, cleaned up most of the way through verona (still haven't gotten a nameless island map). Turns out 100% resurrect skill, and Berserkers is an amusing combo. You target them, they run off and die like crazy... but do large amounts of damage while dying... and generating a heck of a lot of rage.

Ogres provide a little cover, and will tank archers if possible. Bears are almost useless do to their speed, but I just got the Mining Flute for the formen stack (+2 morale, +1 speed) so they can mix it up pretty well now.

And hey, I just finished the 'ring of the holy'. So I'll probably be doom to demons.

what about the devilfishes?:-)
^^

quite a funny combo indeed beserkers with resu skill xD
lol

Devilfish are okay. I'm using Jimmy Craud, so they are 4 move. Basically they nip at anything that can't retaliate, or the occasional low level unit (Hoping for fear). They are easy to rezz via the spell, which is how I get them back.

Ogres at this point are starting to be harder and harder to keep alive. THere's also only like 20 of them in the entire game, so here's to hoping for plenty of call Colossus scrolls!

haha ;-)
we should make more crazy impossible challenges:P

what do you have in mind? No items? no pet dragon?

something like this

like
1. skellie archers
2. bowmen
3. devilfish(hail to devilfishes xD)
4. decaying zombies
5. cerberus

reason for this combo is the heavy morale penalty and there is no good tank in this army

and rest got shitty hp :)

and to add up to te difficulty

(play as mage) without the use of damaging chaos spells
a loss campaign ofcourse since i don't think it possible to do without losses xD

The only unit effected by morale in that line up are bowmen, and they are only level 2, so morale has little effect on them anyway. You also have two archers, and a multi hit unit. Sure, no tank, but I think that's a better list than you expect.

ok swap devilfish for swordsmen xD

what would you say about

a bear army;-)

the normal bear
the ancient bear
polar bear
fire spider
hyena
:)

animals ftw xD

so how's it going?
finished it with your setup yet?

I have not been back to it since about level 25. The one problem with the enjoyment of such a game, is that there is no excitement at finding unit spawns, and you use the same terrible group of units for EVERY BATTLE. I might finish it one day, but not right now :(.

I'd go with

peasants
snakes
druids
unicorns (although ents run them close - yes Elves = most powerful lvl 1 and 2 units and least powerful lvl 3,4,5 units)
ancient ents

As the weakest all-lvl army

Druids are archers, unicorns have high move and damage, as well as resistances. Ancient Ents are actually awesome against non fire damage dealing units, if you teleport them in close.

druids can summon extra units
;-)
and the unicorn is quite strong actually

and ents are also good if used correctly they got huge hp and decent damage but their special is really cool;)

Played more even with this being true. Level 30 now, and done most of the way to montero. It isn't feeling hard, but it definitely doesn't have as much fun due to the lack of choices.

Still haven't gotten 50 no loss battles yet. (41). Berserkers really make that difficult...

Yes and i would add that druids also have generous hp (100) for their level, but i found them weak archers and the bears they summon are very weak compared to say... thorns.

In my exp Unicorns die extremely easy, using the Mystic Egg ability is revealing, i would groan when it brought up unicorns or swamp snakes.

Ancient Ents, fire weakness and mobility problems as others have pointed out.... are disadvantages too far (not to mention difficulty in resurrecting them)... Dragon enemies would be a terrible problem - finally if you lose some they are also rare.

Snipers and elfs are good though (i forgot them).

Others mentioned Ogres, but Ogres' steal action points ability can be very powerful (especially against non-black dragons) if you have the initiative... being level 5's they can also tank for you... a strong unit.

lol
the beserker:P

must be a terrible unit for no loss xD

but isn't their damage quite ok for their level?

does the beserk spell work on beserkers?:D

Damage is fairly decent, but not THAT good. Berserk spell does not work on them, as it doesn't effect mind immune targets (which zerkers are).

And yes, I don't think you'd even have enough berserkers in the entire game if you do not have 100% resurrection paladin skill.

"Zerkers", haha.

Pity they're not good enough for a zerk rush. :evil:

lol try a bear party sometime lol :P