Artillery
 

Anyone else find artillery in MOW to be a little unrealistic and overpowered, perhaps even ... a tad ridiculous?
The first time I saw a video of a MOW battle on YouTube, when I saw a Katyusha barrage my first reaction was, "WOW that looks silly!"; I mean the Katyusha was on the other side of some buildings and seemed to fire all of 40 metres, and the barrage was like the end of the world!
It looked cartoonish!
Kind of destroyed the illusion of realism for me.

Mortars seem fine, at least in scale(although who knew that WW2 mortar rounds were actually laser guided homing missiles?), but larger calibres just get more and more absurd.

Heavy artillery just won't fit on such small scale battlefields.
Why not have an option for purchasing off-map artillery support missions instead?

Oh yeah, definitly, Artillery is rediculous, US anyway. The M114 155mm howitzer for the US is a sniper and WILL follow you around the board while German Artillery fires way long, way short, and never really gets in the zip code of the target. The Russian Artillery is god, the ISU152, its both armored like battleship and its gun annihilates stuff in record time. So yeah, I never really liked arty in small scale battles like this either...the game always turns into 40minutes of high caliber shell slinging and noone really does much. No Arty makes for a more fun game where you actually have to think, manuver, fight....play the game...yeah...not just press the easy button and blow the living hooo ha out of everything w/ large caliber guns. I agree if there is going to be Artillery and Planes they should be off board call ins using your points just like any normal unit, fire its set firemission and stop, then for planes do just like in CoH, it flies in, drops its load and goes away.

i never play with artillery is just no fun in it.

I think the guns are quite even for all sides.

The ISU152 isnt that great by the way. The Panzer IV can do some damage already and its very easy to damage it. You dont need always to destroy it. Its already enough if you either imobilize it or destroy its gun. And considering how huge the gun is thats quite easy.

On the other side the Germans have one of the best self propeled artillery the Hummel. Once you get 2 of them even heavy tanks are in danger. Got sometimes a pershing with them.

The M114, well I dont find it more accurate then the D1 or german artillery.

I agree the katyusha is a quite powerfull weapon but its extremly vulnerable particiularly to enemy artillery. You dont even have to hit it just shoot next to it and it will blow up. Very easily. It has no armor values. And since the last patch its potential on armor has been decreased a lot at least when used against heavier armor. Light armor is still very vulnerable to the Katyusha. But to really destroy a heavy vehicle you have to hit the engine of the tank directly which is not that easy its a game of luck. Now its already enough if you damage the tank. Which is not completely unrealistic.

But true is that Artillery particularly on matches with many points somehow make the game sometimes pretty tedius. But one has also to say without artillery many times enough you would have almost no chance against the German heavy tanks since the artillery has a good chance to imobilizing a Jagd or Kingtiger. And you know nothing is more annoying then geting your infantry always killed while trying to fix the track !

If you play a map like canyon with artillery on ... well its a bit your fault as well. You can always read the map and the describtion of the game before the game starts. And on such small maps with artillery availble and many points you KNOW it will be used.

I know Katyushas are butter but killing tanks w/ Hummels? how haha. Ive fired that hummel and it just hits the top of the tank, if it hits at all and just stuns the crew and makes a big explosion, thats it. I usually play with arty off b/c it lags the crap outta this PC im on haha. Also, Canyon, Road and Winter Church are 3 maps that are on my never play list and i never have...hate those 3. I despise small maps in any game, so Warehouse is kinda on there to lol. But yeah, Canyon with Artillery is purely for noobs haha. The Hummel the other day i used it from like 130away and it missed its target by about 30m and it was way long but it hit a glob of my enemies infantry and got like 8 dudes. Was a nice shot but my target was some 57mm ZiS4. How is the Su 152 no good? Ive seen it and it has killed my King Tigers on the frontal hull in 1 shot, blowing it into 50 pieces. Id consider that good, plus its pretty accurate. The Su152 and KV2 and Calliope are prolly the best Arty pieces, they are armored and artillery

i realy hate this heavy arty in MoW. spawning this units dont need any tactical gameplay & this heavy arty can destroy 95% of all tanks.

i think all heavy arty is too powerfull & to accurate. heavy arty should support infantry and not tankkiller #1.

With a hit to the engine or the top of the turret. Its dificult with heavy armor. But it can work sometimes. I destroyed pershings, panthers and other tanks that way. Though not intentionaly usualy. Its more a rare situation. And takes 2 Hummels since its increasing the rate of fire.

Cause its neither a good tank killer nor a good artillery. Its a "do it all" unit.

To be a succesfull tank killer it lacks the needed accuracy. To be a succesfull artillery unit it has not enough shells, lacks range and compared to usual artillery the arc of fire is to flat (buildings and obstacles can block it). The SU122 for example is a better infantry support unit it can fire fast is quite powerfull and has enough shells. It also can be deployed behind obstacles. The ISU152 is far from beeing useless. Its a nice unit if deployed carefully and I prefer it to the SU100 cause the ISU has also a 12mm MG on its top which is extremly usefull. But its easy to take it out once you spoted it cause as already said its size makes it visible and easy to hit. The ISUs gun makes a big part of its front which means to hit it is very likely loost my ISU that way often enough cause the acuracy isnt that great and the enemy would damage the gun. Killing the Tiger II from the front is also more a rare situation It never happend to me (it was always a shot to the side or the side of the turret while aiming at the enemy). Remember the turret of the Tiger II is quite vulnerable on its side. I would like to see more effects when the Tiger II is hit by the ISU HE shell on the front. Maybe not destryong the vhicle but killing the crew inside eventualy.

But well artillery isnt the first choice of killing tanks though. Dont forget it happens many times that at some point most of the infantry is dead with artillery and they will start to shoot tanks. It usualy doesnt take it out with the first hit though.

And by the way artillery has been used a few times to destroy tanks. Of course not with one gun but with a whole barrage involving several guns. But still.

For sure it doesnt have enough ammo, like the IS2/3 its got like 20 shells and thats it. I think most Arty units in this game have low ammo count. The ISU is a big target and easy ot hit but it has the armor, both frontal and side to take the blows. Only from 90 or less in game and with a few very lucky, well placed shots w/ a King Tiger have I killed a SU152. Its armored well for sure, that alone would make me buy it over the rest of those SU's which are armored not that much better then the T34. Sure Ammo is a slight issue for the Russian big guns but thats what the Ammo truck is for, I usually cart one of those around somewhere in my rear lines

ISU-152 is the worst tankkiller #1 ingame. with ISU-152 HE ammo you can kill all tanks till jagdpanther, pershing, tiger, centurion .... frontaly without any problems (useing max. range).
killing ISU-152 frontaly needs >100mm penetration -> at this distance ISU-152 can kill most tanks frontaly with HE or AP.

sometimes i saw ISU-152 or KV-2 killed KTs frontaly with HE -> HE hit turret from KT -> KT lost whole turret. LOL :confused:

same with HE from IS-2 or IS-3 against tiger/panther/pershing. HE hit turret -> tank lost whole turret.

Thats not ever going to happen for MP. It would just crush frontlines with no real fighting left for the infantry. It would just destroy entire hill fortifications.

I think heavy artillery is realistic... In game terms its max range is ~ 6000 meters.

It seems that few people don't like artillery, for me is the best weapon in the game, alittle bit unreal but is fine when you "KNOW' how to use it.
That's the reason why many people dont like it, they don't know how to manuver them. for example when i play the game i start making a solid frontline with many infantery hiden on the bushes, then i bring a light vechicle with a heavy tank to that front to support the infantery then its time to build a solid artillery line, with germans i use a hummel with 2 heavy connons, shift 1,2 & 3, after this you can build another line of tigers panthers and knight tigers ( 4 or 5). Be aware of any enemy soldier close to ur fontline, if u see something use ur 3 artillery weapons to fire behind the enemy lines no matter if u cant see anything later, when is time to push the front line, start to fire the artillery again in anticipation of an offensive. althought i like artillery because its a "physiological" weapon i garantee you that at the end of the game you will end up killing more enemy sodiers that anyone else.


rayaboy.

I dont like artillery not b/c I dont know how to use it, but b/c it takes the tactics out of the game. People just set up a line enough to prevent the enemty from just charging forward and commence to buy 2, 3, 4 oor more artillery guns and sit there w/a commander blowing the living crap out of everything and thats the game. its like the Battle of the Artillery Batteries. Everytime you try and make a move, you get spotted and bombarded by half a corps of Artillery, all your infantry die, the tanks are detracked and then your screwed b/c w/ arty in the game your never going to get a detrack fixed. Make it the US and a couple of Calliopes and they will shell-hack anything and everything that even thinks about thinking about showing its face, pretty much a walk in the park for the US. They detrack every enemy tank, kill all the infantry and just march up the board under a walking barrage of rockets.......no fun....I dont even find that fun as the US...I play to actually see some good fire fights and arty those dont happen. The Germans are stuck just rebuying infantry to set up thier infantry screens only to have them blwon away before they are deployed. So there is no way they will get anything big to counter the US arty.

what im trying to say is that every component in the battle is essential for your tactics/strategy.
-the main component is the infantery,
-light vehicles for support the infantery
-heavy tanks mainly for assaults and support
-Artillery is good for repressing the enemy. also for clean the way when you are ready for a rush.

every component has is own job, if you take out the artillery is like a tank missing its cannon.


rayaboy.

i think "heavy arty" spamer havent any tactical gameplay. playing against a "heavy arty" spamer (eg. 2x D1 + 1 ISU-152) is only a "lucky punsh" gameing. you can play with best tactical, but against heavy arty batteries you need only luck.
in MoW:AS heavy arty will have a massive limitation, these makes me confident, seeing more tactical gameplay again.

I hope they wont make the guns completely useless though

I've had no problems against enemy heavy artillery. I just rush in 4 infantry squads and a jeep, then steal the guns. Artillery can not turn fast enough unless its a ISU-152 or the like. Of course, thats on unprotected artillery. On protected artillery I would just sneak in some flame throwers or dynamite them with a scout.

I wish art could fire smoke changes to provide cover for your advancing units or to blind the enemy temporarily. Esp, that would be useful for attacing a flag in the open, where infantry is prone to any mortar and artilery fire. That would be cool. What do you think?

I wish tanks had thier smoke shells to =D Smoke is like the one thing that is missing from this game that is keeping it from being the ultimate WWII RTS =D Id love nothing more than to be able to launch a mass assault w/ Halftracks, that dont die to 50cals, a few tanks moving up while the infantry use it as cover, some mortars in support and a nice pre-attack air strike of P47s or Stukas....w/e haha. I can almost do it in this game but thre is no smoke to cover my advance....those panzy infantry smoke nades dont count :-P

I agree more and better smoke systems would be welcome. Using the smoke grenades just doesnt cut it for me. They can be very helpfull. But using it is very limited. Particularly since the yield of them is to small. Artillery could fire a heavy smoke shell that could really blind or cover a whole area.

something different though, is it normal that one can sometimes not see enemy artillery firing ? I noticed that while gaming that I can see the enemy artillery when its firing and sometimes I would see nothing at all. Has that something to do with how close your troops are to it (so they could hear and see it eventualy) that you can know its exact location ?

I guess, thats all that I can figure out from it. Sometimes ill see tanks sitting out a long ways out where otherwise I wouldnt and even at times Ive seen, for a very breif second when my opponent deploys a vehicle. It flashes on the minimap for like a second then it goes away. It must be that infantry can see it if they have a good enough view or something

Use creeping artillery/infantry tactics.

As for when you see a vehicle spawn on the map, its not easy to fix if you can. What happens is this:
1. Your enemy calls in a tank
2. Tank spawns first
3. Adjusts decals such as camo and texture on said tank
4. Tank crewmen are spawned into tank
5. Tank crewmen are set to play as player 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.
6. Tank is ready all in 0.2 seconds depending on PC speed.

The reason you see the tank is because of 4 mainly, along with another string of ordered commands such as AI tweaking and such that cost tank spawning a extra tenth of a second.

SU-100 is crap. Due 2 it's low height it increases the slope of enemy units it is aiming at, while decreasing her own slope against enemy tanks (because all tanks are far higher than the su-100). Ofc this wouldn't be an issue in real life as the SU-100 was used as an ambush tank killer but MoW maps are 2 small.

ISU-152 was king though. Just like IRL it is an extremely good tank killer, and can fire at enemy units behind a hill (so being kinda invulnerable).

The SU-85 is alot better then the SU-100, and cheaper and faster then the ISU-152. But if you are after the ultimate tank destroyer, try a Jagdtiger. Put it in the right place, cover your flanks and your rear, any tank that comes near is dead. Accurate 152mm AP and HE shells, can easily take out tanks from the front. If you cant pierce the front armor you can at least stun the enemy tank and send someone to flank it. Try it if you ever get enough points, put it in a pass and it can provide alot of cover to advancing tanks.

the Jagdtiger had a 128mm gun a drivate also know as the PAK44 when used as anti tank weapon ;). I think the "Sturer Emil" which was a form of protytpe/special vehicle had as well some 12,8cm gun. But I am not sure if it was the same type as used later with the Jagdtiger ~ I doubt it as the PAK44 entered service much later while the Sturer Emil was used in the east in 41 and there have been only around 3 units or so. Though I think it had a specially designed own version called 12,8cm K L/61 or something while the Jagdtiger had the Pak44.
http://www.modelltreff.de/gallerie/m...Scan000061.JPG

Some Jagdtiger version in the last month of the war got also the Tiger II 88mm high velocity gun cause of a shortage in the 128mm. I think those Jagdtiger had the designation Jagdtiger with 88mm gun.




THough I think one vehicle that need some serious nerfing is the Sturmtiger. The Axis side has already the advantage of huge armor that is almost inpenetrabale at the front, artillery units like the Hummel and Panzerwerfer with good hiting power AND with the Sturmtiger on their side they have a good vehicle that is capable of destryoing any heavy target by the other other nations inlcuind the IS3 and T29 ~ why is the T29 more expensive then the Tiger II when in game it is in fact a worse vehicle? Anyway. I think what would help here is if the Sturmtiger would get a "more or less" realistic reload animation. The vehicle had a crane to load the 38cm mortar in to the gun from the roof.

http://www.whq-forum.de/cms/uploads/...rmtiger-01.jpg

Usualy loading the weapon would take around 40-50 min. (depending on the crew) but I think that might not work with the game. What would work very well though is to see some of the crew EXIT the vehicle using the crane to load the Sturmtiger (and thus making it vulnerable to artillery and small arms fire!) AND make it impossible to move the vehicle while you reload it, so that if you want to move it away you have to stop the reload cycle, move it to a save distance and reload it eventualy there. Same could apply for all the other rocket artillery like the Land Matress, Katyusha, Caliope and Nebelwerfer/Maultier. You should not be able to move them around AND reload them at the same time! Reloading any of the rocket artillery was a very time consuming affair which was one of the major disadvantages of those vehicles cause they hvae been pretty vulnerable during that time.

As it can be seen here the hatch on the roof for the crane to load the shell.

http://www.whq-forum.de/cms/uploads/...rmtiger-04.jpg

Russian soldiers with the Katyusha. Imagine how long it would take to reload all those tubes

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/ussr/tru...a-bm-13-01.jpg

Reloading all those units should leave those vehicles in a very vulnerable state.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4...erfer42ur3.jpg

My bad, I thought the Jagdtiger had a 152mm, but it is very good.

The reload time is very slow, but thats why there is always more then one, for constant fire.

I don't think Artillery or RT is over powered, but that's not to say I don't think its very powerful, but when you spread your infantry out it tends not to do a huge amount of damage and very rarely hits on target.

Sure it can be a real pain in the butt to cancel out. RT seems to work much like heavy tanks where more often than not they just cancel each other out.

I'm not a fan of Artillery so when I host a game I normally tick the no RT box so the heavies indirect weapon you get is the mortar which is quite powerful enough.

The T29 is prolly more expensive then the King Tiger maybe to represent its rarity a little bit seeing how it never actually was in the war at all......regardless the price as the allies im glad to have it hahaha. As for the Sturmtiger it is a deadly piece in game but it has a reload time of 2 rounds a game and only has like maybe 10 rounds total....ive not bought it but Ive seen it and I know it needs a supply truck hitched to its back or its gunna be outta rounds before it does anything else...As for the crew outside the vehicles, while thats a kewl idea in game it wouldnt work that well b/c as soon as it fired it would never get to fire again, enemy artillery would juist shoot the crew and then youd prolly never get it loaded to use it again.....

Enemey artillery is avoidable. Just keep on the move, unless you got a huge artillery battery emplacement.

Dunno. Cant say if that really is the reason behind it. But I never had the Feeling MoW was going with how rare a vehicle is otherwise the KV85 and IS1 would have to cost almost as much like the Kingtiger when you consider that there have been how many KV85 ? Maybe 150 ? Or from the IS1, not much more either. And most got loost during the war ;)

The Tiger II is in MoW more expensive then the Jagdtiger and Elefant yet there have been more Tiger II produced then Jagdtigers and Elefant together as there have been somewhat around 88 Jagdtigers and 90 Elefants produced (and 50 of those Elefants have been loost at Kursk the rest was send later to Italy or something). Particularly the Elefant was not a own design but just a product of the Tiger I project where they had some 90 Tiger I protoype chassis left and decided to make it a tankhunter before throwing it away.

So I think the numbers refelct somewhat how usefull or powerfull a vehicle is in the game as the Tiger II has a very powerfull gun and turret. The Jagdtiger not.

Hence why I am confused by the T29 beeing so expensive when it has less chance to take out the Tiger II then the Tiger II the T29. You just have to get close enough and can penetrate its hull while the T29 cant do the same. If anthing the T29 should be cheaper then the Tiger II.

Its simply a overpowered piece of equipment and I have the feeling it was more or less just simply aded to the game for the "luzl" or "kewl" factor so one can look and say ooh it has shiny sturmtiger making a big BUMB!.

As for the crew outside the vehicles, while thats a kewl idea in game it wouldnt work that well b/c as soon as it fired it would never get to fire again,
And then we would somewhat move to what it is from a realistc point of view. THe Sturmtiger was a extremly rare vehicle with eventualy only 12 or 15 ever built. There was the order from hitler to convert every month 5 tiger tank chassis ~ as that was the base, to the Sturmtiger but this was never ever realised. They had already enough problems to keep the usual production of Tigers and Panthers runing. On the other original idea for the Sturmtiger came from the experience in Stalingrad where the troops demanded a very well protected vehicle with a powerfull gun to simply blow any building or bunker in their path away. Obviously a hit by the 38cm rocket mortar in to a column of tanks would prove devastating as well. One of the few cases where the Sturmtiger saw action was during the Ardenes I think. And here it did struck the enemy very hard when ever it was used simply cause of the phsychological effect of the heavy weapon! As soon the gun fired the one or other round it had emidiately to relocate its position as the enemy would concentrate all its artillery on finding and destroying the vehicle.

So If it it happens that you loose your infantry which is reloading the Sturmtiger to enemy artillery fire then its just representing somewhat a realistic behaviour and it means you have to take care when and how to use it.

At the moment I have seen so many matches where people blow the IS3 away with it and you cant do anything. Regardless how good you play at that moment while on the other side you cant do anything against the Tiger II or Jagdtiger. So the Germans hvae here a formidable tank killer while the other nations can only duck and cover.

But as said thats just my oppinion

That must have been what happened to my IS3 last week, blew off the whole turret.

Why would you need to keep reloading the Sturmtiger anywhy and risking such men, why not just keep a supply truck at your spawn and do all the loading before you send the Sturmtiger out, the same with every vehicle.

yes thats what usualy happens in matches where its about equal and where neither side had the real option to attack so you end with the IS3 on one side and the Kingtiger on the other. And all you see at that point is eventually the IS3 beeing destroyed by the Sturmtiger ... and again you cant do much about it.

One of the reasons why I dont really play many 600 points games anymore. It just ends in such boring battles.

Combat is really boring. The only object of it is to spawn camp, so I don't play it. My IS3 loss that game was my fault, I put it on a hill for all to see.

Infantry can throw smoke grenades at 30 meters, that's pretty far.

Though I don't do attack flags from cover of smoke, it is suicidal. The enemy will just counter attack and drive you off easily, as they control that area. I personally just prefer to slug it out in the open until the enemy is decimated and then take their flags.

Now on your point: While it would be pretty cool to blind an enemy, it would also be extremely frustrating and probably laggy.. I bet everyone would be shooting smoke shells all over the place, so that everything becomes a chaos.

MoW uses a pretty basic reload system. I like your proposal about not being able 2 reload rocket art while moving though it doesn't really make any difference in-game.

Most people always retreat a Katusha or w/e far behind their front lines when reloading, and it takes an eternity to reload it.

T29 has awesome frontal armour and a huge and very strong gun.

Sturmtiger takes an eternity to reload, and it often misses (you need to have a very close hit to an IS3 to tip it over). Though yeah, the way it can tip over heavy tanks is just annoying.

PS. Nice pictures

Never noticed that. All in all the Tiger II usualy the better tank it will probably go out 8 of 10 engagements against the T29 at least as winner. Maybe for a "usual" vehicle the T29 has very strong armor but in game the Pak43 has not much trouble to punch trough it while on the other side the T29 has serious issues with the front armor of the Tiger II or anything with similar armor values (Jagdtiger). Thus the reason why I dont understand the huge price for the T29 when anything on the german side is cheaper.

When I have a Tiger II on the field and I see the T29 approaching I am quite happy. Cause I know that its not much of a match and when its loost the enemy had to spend a lot of points on it. Maybe, but just maybe the T29 is a good shell magnet. In other words keeping the enemy bussy on long range. But as soon you get to some distance where you can hit the enemy the Tiger II gun will right punch trough the front armor. Seen that happen so many times. The tourtle on the other side is a much better vehicle. But its a chassis without turret. Those are usualy easy to destroy once you killed their tracks.

Its good enough protected to get close to score a clear hit from 2 or 3 shoots. And thats more then you can say about the IS152 for example which without cover can be destroyed quite often by the heavy tanks. So the Axis do not only have the advantage of reliable armor which can stop the armor of the enemy but also somewhat a huge artillery which helps a lot to overcome those situations where no side can advance without taking huge risks.

Maybe for the Katyusha and Maultier Rocketluncher the realistic reload animation would not mean much as those vehicles are anyway quite vulnerable. But regarding the Sturmtiger and Caliope it would mean ALOT! imagine as you try to reload those vehicles but the enemy has some knowledge about their position shelling it with artillery. Now you are loosing 2 of its crew members reloading the vehicle and you cant continue to reload before the vehicle has not its full crew. And if you move the units around you cant reload them. THis would give people which use artillery like the Caliope or Sturmtiger some preasure and make them a bit more even to the Katyusha and mobile German rocketluncher.

But I think anyway that just from the diversity of units the Germans are the top notch. They pretty much have for every situation the correct answer. With the Panzer III and Puma as best light vehicles. The Panther, Tiger, Stug, Jagdpanzer IV as average counter to medium armor and their choice in artillery is awesome with the Sig33, Hummel and Sfh18 not to mention the heavy tanks and mobile rocket luncher. At this point I have to ask my self where are the Sexton and Priest self propeled artilley on the US and British side ? What about the Comet tank (comparable with the Tiger I) which saw at least more use then the Centurion! Seroiusly I am quite tired from playing with brits fighting eventualy Panthers and other armor with the Achiles and Firefly which are really no match for the Panther. The Comet would give here at least a bit more diverstiy and fairness. Playing with the Brits is hard enough anyway but sometimes its ridiculous.

British Sexton
http://www.desertrats.org.btinternet...Europe1944.jpg

US M7 Armored Artillery
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...24b4967541.jpg

Comet heavy tank
http://www.paoyeomanry.co.uk/Yeomanr...met_tank_3.jpg

I play GSM a lot and tanks and artillery can fire smoke. We seldom use it but the idea is that it is there for us to use if a need arises and sometimes it helps ( esp you have a wounded/weaker tank and you need to withdraw it to a secure place).:)

Smoke in Battle Zones is very good. If you throw smoke your enemy will think you shall be moving in on it, thus triggering a rocket or artillery barrage on a target. After the enemy fires his barrages, while he is reloading you can move in on the area, send one guy to take out a Calliope, D1, or something heavier like a T29. After that you would take your own artillery out of hiding and fire ahead of a flag. After such a move you hook left or right cutting off your enemy from reinforcements while moving your own reinforcements up.

With so many elements in such a move, taking smoke or artillery out of your plans will result in a phyrric victory. Thats how important artillery is to war.

Crni, mate, no offence but I think u just dont have enough exp in multi.

T29 has the strongest gun in the game, and has similar frontal armour to tiger2. the weakness of the T29 is terrible side armour.

ISU152 is without a doubt the best tank killer in the soviet army (just as it was IRL). It eats panthers, jagdpanthers and jagdpanzers for breakfast (HE shell at their roof = dead, the armour piercing shell of the ISU-152 destroys any slope made due to the arc of fire).

Sturmtiger has reload speed similar to Katusha. It is easy target if tracks are knocked out.

Crni, in the hands of a skilled player the UK is just as strong as Germany. I've won with UK when playing with veteran teammates, against veteran german players on maps like suburb2. Especially with beasts like the land mattress and 17 pounder.

When things boil down to it all, I think the factions are beautifully balanced. Thing is, with some factions you have to rely less on armour, while using primarily infantry and artillery (infantry and artillery can kill armour well if used correctly).

Also remember that things like Panther and Tiger 2 are the German strengths, which cost allot and won't appear in spammage numbers if u put pressure on the enemy.

PS. the americans have the priest, and the British some other heavy SP art gun (don't remember the name, I haven't played in a month).

totally agree with the last posted.

Maybe. I never said I am professional or great player.

Right. And thats why its seen very rarely against the axis heavy tanks. I cant remember many using it or really achieve much with it.

I can only say it again. When ever I see it my Tiger II has no issue to take it out. From the front. Similar to the IS3. Just get close enough and the gun will punch right trough the armor. On the other side I only very rarely got my Tiger II penetrated from the front be it the T29 or the IS3. If I am honest I cant remember any single time.

The Tiger II and German armor in general is anyway way to cheap. If anything the Tiger II should be more around 140 points. I find it even boring when playing with the axis already.

IF. Emphais on IF its tracks are taken out. That is not something you can always count on. By the way the Sturmtiger is quite well armored on the front. Nothing of that is something you can say about the Katyusha or the other rocket artillery. Why? Cause even a close hit from powerfull guns will destroy them. So the Sturmtiger is a artillery with a class of its own. If you want so.


If what you face are panthers, Jagdpanthers, Jagdpanzer IV etc. And onl IF you manage to hit them on their roof/armor succesfully. All of this are big IFs. On the other side. Many times it boils down to ISU vs Tiger II, Elefant and Jagdtiger. And here the ISU is just not really very succesfull if the enemy isnt doing you the favour to show you his weak side. You can do great against the Tiger 1 and Panther. Once the Jagdpanther survived a hit it has a good chance to take out the ISU.

I dont see much issues with the ISU. particularly against medium and some heavy armor. But I would not call it a succesfull tank hunter. It also was not one in real life. What they did was using it with concentrated fire. Acuracy and velocity for the gun was very poor. Reload time as well. Maybe 2 shoots per minute. If anything. Probably less. The panther could shoot 6-8 times per minute. If not even more. Similar for the Tiger II and Jagdpanther. It depends very much on the skill of the crew. It is one of the reason why the SU100 was designed to have a good tank hunter beeing designed with that role. The ISU if anything was an assault gun meant to destroy any fortifications and eventualy counter enemy guns and it was good enough in that role though it was also not comparable with self propeled guns like the Hummel, Sexton or Priest which had in general a higher range and accuracy the ISU got later replaced by real artillery the development of 152mm nuclear shells keept it in service till the 70s. The ISU for example had not the option to fire in a very high arch unlike real self propeled artillery. For its time the ISU was a overall good vehicle. But it was a Soviet design which tried to overcome the shortcomings of its design with using it in high numbers for example ~ concentrated fire and as well using the size of its gun. The reload time was slow as said but this was not seen so much as issue cause the size of the gun was so large.

I cant really agree.

If it would be really balanced we would see more fighting with other nations then Soviet vs Axis which is probably the closest in balance you will get.

You cant tell me that the Japanese are "balanced". Or the British. Maybe with numbers yes. But since a game is usualy piting people in a 1vs1 situation you cant really say its balanced and the advantage of German armor shows very fast its effect. The British for example have no good heavy tank in their arsenal. The centurion is if anything superior to the panther/tiger 1. The only heavy armor they have is the heavy tank hunter. But that was it. They dont even get their self propelled artillery!

As said if you get 2 groups playing against each other with exactly the same skills I am somewhat certain the brits will loose against the axis.

The weakness with all US tanks is the side armor. A 45mm can punch a hole in the side of most of their tanks, even the little 20mm Luchs can tear holes in a Shermans rear. A head on rush is suicide against the T29, the only way to deal with one is a side shot or a few grenades to the engine. Unless you get a good chance its best to leave a T29 alone. The only tank of theirs I've had problems piercing the side is the Pershing.

As for that ISU-152 the only thing I've killed with that is infantry and a Puma. I would have better luck with a Hummel. I'm sure the ISU-152 is good for some people, but I prefer light tanks and infantry rushes along with rocket artillery.

The British tanks are not all that great. They got the numbers, I got the Jagdtiger. The Japaneese tanks are alright, got to love that mortar on a truck. I am against a balanced game. If the only thing different with the IS3, King Tiger, and T29 was the appearance, it would make Men of War a horrible game.

The T29 just has a good gun, its hull armor is only like 100, its kinda like a big Centurion, good gun, good turret armor but hull armor like a Halftrack. Only thing making the T29 good at all is its big @$$ gun. As for losing King Tigers to those, I know of 2 times I lost them to Frontal hits, 1 of which was a shot prolly 60m away or so..so close shot, meanwhile I was pounding rounds back at him, we both got off about 3 shots each. And the Centurion, I dont even waste my time buying it....its expensive and not worth the points...its got the same gun as a Firefly and its armor is barely better.

The T29 is terrible. Its big, bulky, hard to turn. That 105mm isn't going to protect itself from everything. What I really dislike about it and the Tiger and King Tiger is the slow turret rotation. I do like that 2x .50 cal, which is really good at chopping down infantry, and how fast it sends a 105mm. Its the slowest unit you can find on the battlefield, unable to keep up with the rest of the team. Good for a defensive person, but its just a big hunk of metal in any other field.

Its not for me. I like a good fast tank able to take a few shots from a 88mm, and with a fast turning 57mm or 76mm turret.

I agree in a defensive style the T29 can prove to be a nasty obstacle. Or at least to keep the heavy tanks bussy enough so you can find a way to take them out with infantry, artillrey or flanking. But its just way to expensive for what you can do with it in the game. Youre in a better position eventualy with a few M36 jacksons waiting for some ambush or Pershings with infantry. Or another artillery unit etc. With the Tiger II you dont have much of that kind of problem. Its a killer weapon. If used correctly. Its for a heavy vehicle extremly versatile deployable.

At the moment when playing the US/Brits/Japs its better to keep up so much preasure on the Germans so they wont get a chance to use the Tiger II then to eventualy trying to counter it with your own heavy tanks. Thing is in a match with somewhat equal skill the match is easier for the Axis then compared to the other nations simply cause they have access to so many different forms of equipment. Be it with the Sturmtiger artillery (its more used like a tank hunter in game ...) or the Tiger II super heavy tank. And when people know that you are trying to wear them down they will take advantage from that. Thing is with playing the axis you simply have no reason to "wear" the enemy down so much cause you know nothing they can bring up in the field will take out your heavy armor from the front.


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I am not sure if that is a trait only specificaly tied to the US vehicles as weak sides are usualy present with most armored vehicles. Except the Tiger 1 eventualy which is well enough protected to be even from the side hard to penetrate by any gun smaller then 75mm. But most of the tanks are quite vulnerable to shoots to the side. Like they should be. ~ I still think though the heavy tanks are not weak enough to side shoots! To many time you get a perfect chance to shoot their side just to see the shoot doing nothing at all. Even on max distance for example a T34/76 should have a good chance to penetrate the 40mm of the Panthers side up to 1000m. And the T34/85 anyway!.

Of course I can agree with that. Hence why I think the balance to the game should be brought by the points a unit costs. And making the Tiger II just the same or almost the same points like the other units is not that good in my eyes it should be more around 140 points. Even when I have the chance to play on the axis side. It just happens that in such situations the medium armor/equipment gets not used very frequently and most just go for the big guns. Which is not completely wrong. But it should be really something you have to consider. To bring in the Tiger II in the battle takes often enough the tactic out of the game just like a senesless artillery spam for example. But thats my oppinion.

Thing why I see the Germans as slightly overpowered right now is cause they have a wide range of tools to choose from artillery, to infantry and tanks. With the Elefant as excelent tank hunter better then the Jagdpanther since it cant be killed from the front by the ISU that easily and it is much cheaper then the Jagdtiger. The Tiger II without any doubts is the overall best heavy tank in the game. And for the medium ranges and armor you have the Panther and Tiger. I rarely see the Panzer IV H in action though. But thats cause its unrealisticaly modeled in my eyes. The panze IV H has already trouble facing the KV tanks and T34s when in reality it had not. But thast a whole different story. With the infantry for example one thing I dont understand is why other nations dont get rockets as well while the German assault infantry AND paratroopers get access to powerfull anti tank rockets. There should be more piats and bzookas in the British and US arsenal as well. At least with their elite troops.

THe centurion is extremly versatile if used more like a medium/heavy vehicle then a super heavy vehicle. Its really more something to beat the Panther or Tiger 1 with success. As said. When you play on the British you really have not much to counter the Tiger II, Elefant of Jagdtiger. Except for the tortoise. But thats 1 vehicle!

That toroise can't penetrate the front of the Jagdtiger. The best you can do against the Jagdtiger is disable its gun or flank it. The Jagdtiger should last about 15-60 minutes before giving in to a shot from the side or rear.

A T34/76 against a Panther never did it for me. I take a T34/57 or T26 and hit the rear. All tanks have a unique property and flaws. The IS3 is fast and can take most hits, the King Tiger has a good gun but slow turret, and the T29 has a good gun but is overall very slow.

You just need to use the tanks right, using set tactics for each nation.
USSR = Fast tanks and infantry rushes.
Germany = Strong durable tanks followed by infantry.
USA = Many good medium tanks side by side.
Great Britain = Artillery followed by light tanks.
Japan = Heavy mortar support, cheap tanks covering infantry with AT mines.

yeah but I just think scoring a hit to the flank of tanks is way to hard. I mean had so many times where for example a Tiger 1 was not able to penetrate the side of the IS1, IS2 etc. Or a T34785 could do no damage to the Panthers side, regardles of a clear hit. Only cause the game decided that the shell had not enough "force" to punch trough the armor. Thats the thing when you try to play the game somewhat with realism in mind ... took me some time figure out that MoW has more or less its own rules.

I mean I am not saying that everything should be simply like in real otherwise the Pak44 would simply rule the battlefield. But side shoots should be somewhat more obvious. That would also force people to not just spam the heavy armor as you would loose it faster.

Getting a hit on the side of a tank is easy. Just drive next to its side and shoot at it. If all else fails, just throw something at the tank, like a grenade or TNT. A Tiger or Panther you might have a hard time against.

Just shoot the thing and hope it blows up.

The Stormtroopers have Panzerfaust and those were common...kinda like the US and Trucks....:-P The Allies have thier Bazookas and Piat soldiers..they have Rockets..they seem pretty powerful enough, atleast when they get shot at me. Sadly, ive lost about 5 King Tigers to 1 Zooka shot to the side haha, yeah im terrible w/ Infantry cover....=P

Group squads with tanks/artillery and the squad will move with the tanks when ordered to. A double click will tell the tank to proceed at full speed, and your infantry will fall behind. Grouping tanks and squads together is a safe thing to do when advancing, but won't always keep your tank safe.

The safest thing you can do with tanks is go slow, use officers to spot men in bushes, over small hills, etc. Have 3 man squad left and right of your tank, and a mine sweeper up front. If your tank has a MG turret, make it face the back so nobody sneaks up on you with TNT or a grenade.

Ive done that and it results in me running over my guys with my tank b/c they dont move out of the way and when im moving im not going to lose my tank or risk getting hit b/c one guy wants to get in my way haha....-5pts is more worth it to me then -100 hahah..yeah I value my armor more so then my infantry...its evil, I know

I've never run over any of my own guys, except for that one time where I ran over 7 of my own D1s on purpose.

A tank without cover on at least one of its flanks makes it vulnerable to a charge.

One other option I found but never use due to not having tons of men, is camp guys on the back...alot of tanks can have tank riders and on the rear you get back and side views from the men. That solves 2 of my problems....running over my guys and it gives me rear cover. However, I rarely play Allieds and alot of German tanks can only carry like 2-3 guys, both of which sit on one side and when I buy men they are only Stormtroopers so I cant spare men to be tank riders. And lolz, why run over ur own D1s? They run out of ammo?

The problem with riding guys on the tanks is that they cant shoot.

I ran over my D1s because they ran out of ammo. I fired 500+ 152mm HE shells at a Jagdtiger in 20 minutes which only detracted it. Tried to reload but with so many D1s its hard to reload easily.

I wish you could reload artillery/tanks/infantry automaticaly just with some icon. I mean maybe there is a way? Though I dont know it. So far I always have to do it with the inventory. Would be nice if you could just click some icon and the unit would automaticaly reload anything in a small range. There are 2 people inside the trucks anyway. The driver and co-driver could eventualy do that and reload units.

With so many artillery pieces you would have to call in 3 trucks or more. By the time your finished loading them anyway you would have to reload the first one.

A simple way would be helpful. If that can't be done how about some extra rounds in the carriers? Would be easier at least.

You mean reload them like CoH Style w/ some magic ability where the truck has endless amounts of rounds but the crew keeps running back and forth to the guns and trucks?

Yes, that would be good. THe Hummel for example had some extra carrier that would follow it since the self propeled artillery could not store that many rounds. Another benefit of it was that the carrier could be easily converted in the field to another Hummel if the first one was damaged. But that might be a bit to much for the game. Would need also some kind of repair shop.

uhm no. The crew keeps reloading the units within their range as long as they have the ammunition of course. It should be just some icon which says "reload unit nearby". This could be also used by other units as well. Like infantry or tanks which could share their amunition with others as long they have weapons from the same type. This was done many times in WW2. At least tanks and infantry would usualy share ammunition. Some tanks would shoot more shells then others or some even no one at all. At some point when they have the time the tanks would share the ammunition so they all have the same or similar number and thus no tank is completely without any shells. That way the whole unit keeps its tactical clout.

Oh, I see what you mean now Crni =D Now its makes sense =P

while were wishing for stuff to happen in MoW I wish that when you select a Tank and Infantry in the same squad the Tank is forced to slow down to the infantry speed in order for them to actually keep together...the only game ive seen that does that is World in Conflict.

Tanks do slow down when grouped with infantry, unless you double click.

I never group my tanks with infantry. I either hide them around the tank or let them sit on the armor to take a ride.