oleg, the ejected pilot in Lockon-2 walks home after landing
 

Hi Oleg,

just in case you hadnt seen this, there is an interesting new feature in the new lockon-2 (just released these last few weeks). when the ejected pilot lands on the ground, he starts walking in the direction of "home", and keeps walking a fair distance, one got home even after 2 hrs walking !! (you can watch him on externals, and time the journey)

i have no idea yet what would happen if he landed in enemy territory and encountered enemy ground forces, i presume they would shoot at him

any plans for something similar in BoB ?

with the control of vehicles being possible (soon) in BoB, and you mentioning there might be some 1e person control over the pilot actions and movements on the ground, our pilot might be able to commandeer a ground vehicle and try and navigate to the nearest airbase, the possibilities are endless

I'd be interested to see how Luftwaffe pilots walk home after coming down in Kent!

The 'possibilities are endless', but only if the computer power and capacity available is as well, and the time for development is infinite too. BoB is supposed to be a WWII air combat simulator, not a recreation of the entire universe, and adding 'features' that rarely get used is a misuse of finite resources. Get the basics right first, then add the gimmicks. Or even better, add more to core playability, and leave the gimmicks out altogether.

I've always wanted a flightsim with possibilities to control the player in first person, walk... and enter your plane. Being shotdown, crashland or bailout and try to get help before being captured or killed :cool: it feels more like you are the pilot, rather then you are the plane like in IL2 or any other flightsim

johny, a lot of that oleg has already spoken of and he intends to work towards that, and some will be possible right from the start (control some objects like AA guns). driving vehicles will also be possible in BoB, its built into the engine ( but might not be available right away due to other priorities leading up to release time, which is right now).

i just found it interesting to see a limited version of this in lockon2 already, not sure if oleg has seen it

You want this in a Flight Simulator?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...ef=oss_product

That's 1,300 minutes (21 2/3 hours) of runtime to get one pilot home.

I personally don't want to wait that long to be flying again.

Me too. Having a mission start from a ready room from which you'd run as the pilot to your plane and start it up in the middle of strafing left and right would definately add to the immersion!

Not saying that this would be the #1 requirement for initial release but would sure like to see it further down the line.

And no need to bitch what is important for a flight sim and what is not AndyJ. There is no divine truth on that just a bunch of different preferences from different individuals. Out of all this feedback Oleg will filter out what he's perception on that is and act accordingly.
So I'd prefer to see the naysayers to rather focus on reasons why something might hinder the gameplay etc instead of trying to judge what is relevant content for the title and what is not.

Like I said, a gimmick.

I'm not sure that Oleg has ever stated that vehicles will be controllable in BoB. He has said that the sim engine will support it, but that isn't the same thing.

To make 'walking home' at all realistic you would have to hugely increase the amount of detail at ground level, and then model other people to 'evade' etc. Allied pilots who bailed over continental Europe and managed to evade capture often took weeks if not months to reach safe territory (Spain or Switzerland usually). They often only managed this with the help of the local Resistance. Should Oleg model them too? Ridiculous.

EDIT

'why something might hinder the gameplay etc'? I've already answered this. There are finite resources available. Would you rather have (a) another flyable aircraft, or (b) a barbed wire fence all along the Swiss border, and a motorbike to jump it? Which do you expect to use more often?

No need to exaggerate the requests in order to prove your point. I talked about running to the plane you're talking about cutting barbed wire fence to make people's suggestions sound like crap. Relax dude.. or were you appointed the judge and jury on what is relevant and what is not for all the future SOW customers?

The team is already spending time making hangar doors open, glass crack realistically etc which are just as much of a gimmick as a request of running to a plane. And why is that? Immersion.

No comments

It'd be nice to be able to walk up to the airplane (give a greater sense of a world existing that can be contacted in ways beyond tires and fires).

However, the simplest thing would be to upgrade the options for pilots bailing out (lost at sea, rescued by enemy or allies from the sea, hidden by french resistance, dies of wounds while hiding among french resistance, captured, and with a very low probability - steals enemy plane and flies home - this was attempted by at least one luftwaffe pilot).

Whatnot, the first part of my last post was directed at Zapatista's suggestion, not yours. He has already suggested the pilot encountering "enemy ground forces, i presume they would shoot at him".

I think that there is a lack of understanding about the complexities involved in turning an air-combat-simulator into a ground-based RPG. Moving hanger doors involve a minor bit of coding on a 3-d model, together with a minimal function to operate as required. Realistic glass cracking probably involves little more than a carefully-scaled bitmap. AI for ground troops, extra terrain detail and all the rest would probably involve almost as much work as the core air-combat functions. I'm sure it could be done (in fact already has been to some extent in many RPG games), but only at the expense of compromises and simplifications of the core objective of the sim.

I'm not trying to act as 'judge and jury', I'm providing evidence for why it isn't a good idea, though frankly I think it is such a non-starter that 1C:Maddox wouldn't even consider it.

Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying. I thought the lack of update this friday made everyone go nuts.

I understood from the suggestion that the AI pilots would run towards their home base instead of running the 20 meters to random direction after which they duck and cover.
If it was a human player he must be a real trooper to actually run for two hours on a ground surface as simple as LockOn offers to reach their base instead of respawning.

Implementing running to a plane I assume is relatively easy to implement. You already have the animated running pilot model and the physics to interact with the gound (atleast IL2 had it. So all you'd have to do is implement the keyboard controls to guide the direction and camera to follow the head and trace the mouselook.

Atleast it sounds simple writing it in two centences. :)

Yes, a bit of mutual misunderstanding all round, I think.

Your basic 'running pilot' animation sounds do-able, though getting him to climb into the plane might be a challenge. To be realistic, you'd also need an erk animation (or Luftwaffe equivalent) to help with the harness etc, so it all starts to look a bit complicated. Not totally out of the question I suppose. Maybe an add-on?

Its is easier to add button in the ESC control panel with the option "Try To Escape" in case you get captured. The game works a internal probability program that states in if you escaped or captured in just a moment. Parameters of probability function ll depend of distance of your own lines, enemy concentration in area, concentration of your forces, kind of terrain etc. You can push the button or wait a rescue mission like airforce war. Remenber that pressing the button ll be a possibility to get killed during escape. All generated by an internal function only. Hehe...

Much better this way if you would like a possibility to escape, even 3rd party can do this.

Even i can program a routine to do this. But there is no need for Oleg and his team work in this, its something that can be added by 3rd party and community.

It's from the film, The Great Escape. Steve McQueen attempts to jump a barbed wire fence on a motorcycle.

I wouldn't mind walking to the aircraft from a building, or maybe a field, on the base, but walking back to base from some random bail-out position potentially dozens of miles away? No way Jose. I like FPSs, but I don't want one in the middle of my flight simulator.

who said YOU had to wait that long ?

if you want an instant tele-transportation to your home base by hitting refly again, you still can.

the option however of having freedom of movement with your pilot once he lands on the ground, is a major step forward for the rest of us.

If you bail out server kicks you until gives the time to return base. Just easier!:-P

No, that game is already for sale.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pilot-Down-B...0920572&sr=1-3

There's no flying in it, I think you start from landing from a bailout, it didn't interest me because there's no flying.

It's a redicilous requiest, he is making a flight sim not a walk sim.
This ain't gonna happen and thank god for that.

Put resources to better use plix.

It comes down to immersion.

I'm all for anything that adds immersion to the sim within reason.

Off-line do what you like, paddle an inflatable across the Channel etc etc

On-line a more localized "escape" could be done, as we have the black screen of death for killed pilots, perhaps a screen showing their "home scenery" could be placed on a behind lines successful landing/crash-landing/bailout for pilots, controlled by the mission builder in some option parameter for this condition such as 25km behind lines escape = ok or whatever.

Perhaps even being able to put your own escape scene in too :)


.

you sound like a really depressed kind of person, and are under the illusion that you personally can try and impose limitations on oleg's "grand vision" to make it fit your limited sense of reality.

oleg already stated his persoal ambition was for players having direct control over planes, vehicles and ships. with some of his coworkers even posting about "driving tanks to london" as an eventual scenario. we also have seen/heard recently of detailed movements and articulated skeletons of the pilots, even seen one climbing in/out of a cockpit from oleg's updates.

and no that doesnt mean he wants to turn it into a 1e person shooter, that has already been clarified. but roads, vehicles, scenery will be good enough to provide a 1e person perspective from vehicles (or a walking/running pilot), so a pilot walking/moving after landing is entirely feasible at this point.

given what lockon2 has just added as a feature/option/easter-egg, it is also entirely reasonable to ask oleg how far he has added these features himself by now (close to release time)

oooo np ! thats to much to handle for AndyJWest, lets all give up everything and stick to his vision of what a flightsim should be. i suspect you even talk like neil from the young ones (cult series, probably goes right over your head)

AndyJWest's vision of the future of flightsims

and as usual virre doesnt have a clue, maybe stick to playing with your zits instead interjecting in discussions you know nothing about.

features like that are already built in and included in oleg's new game engine, its just a matter of how much will be activated/completed at release time

btw, love your spelling ! parents cutting back on tuition expenses at the moment ?

There seems to be a lot of hostility and lack of respect for people's perspective in the air tonight.

Let's all have some hot chocolate and bisquits and come when feeling a bit better. ;)

Zapatista, grow up.

I'm pretty sure Joint Strike Fighters had this; something did, anyways, because I remember doing it. Was able to run along the ground with a pistol. Put time compression on and watched my little pilot do a benny hill across a few hills, then reloaded mission.

Entertainment value: approximately one to two minutes.

What annoys me is like the airport mission in COD 4 MW2. I mean, it's an airport, yet I was utterly unable to take off in a 767. Talk about unrealistic ;)

Cool story bro

It will certainly be great to walk around a plane in first person perspective and assess the damage it received after a difficult mission.

That would be nice, though to be honest I'd rather have a written report from the groundcrew:

"Four bullet holes in port wing"
"Radiator leak"
"Engine fried - the C/O wants to see you in his office..." :(

;)

i think being able to walk/run your pilot from the dispersal hut to the aircraft and then climb in/out of the plane would be good to

similarly, after landing a plane following a mission being able to walk to the debriefing room and view maps/reports of the results of the mission (while AI activity continues to take places at the base, jeeps driving around, planes landing, loudspeakers blaring messages etc).

compared to the sterile lifeless "ground world" we now have in il2 adding small elements like that make a big difference for immersion

well i think it would be cool to have like a briefing room, then it might show some cutscene of you getting into ur plane, then it goes into the first-person view we all know and love, and ur crew is standing over top of you, explaining to u the condition of ur aircraft, helping you with your harness etc...

but as for bail out and walk home... well thats a bit too much... if ur on british side then u just land in water or a field with cows and farmers etc... if ur on german team, u just land in a field or over water too... and either way its either game over, or u end up back at ur base, so might as well just skip those hours it takes to get to where ur going and just get into the next game, right?

bananazoo? :confused:

that might well be the way we get it in BoB at first because of priorities leading up to release, but as previous posts from oleg have indicated he has a fully articulated figure of the pilot that can be controlled from a 1e person perspective and interact with objects (open doors, climb in/out of planes, drive vehicles, control AA guns or different crew positions for guns in vehicles/planes)

nobody is talking about imposing on everybody to physically navigate/move his ejected pilot back to home base in real time. the way i see it is more a matter of having elements built into the sim from the start that can then be combined into more complex actions which add realism (and oleg has most of those elements already built into the new sim). for ex, ejected pilot lands in friendly field,

scenario 1: pilot walks to nearest road. then shortly after car/bus/truck drives by, vehicle stops, short animation/video of your pilot getting in, scene fades. next scene your pilot arrives back at home base for mission debriefing, and choosing next plane or mission. in that scenario your pilot will keep his name, rank, behavior record and home base location

scenario 2: when pilot lands in field (or even while still in parachute descending), player hits refly. then selects new base/mission/plane to fly, but in that case it is not very realistic to keep the player's name, history and record, it should be a new pilot. after 1 or 2 hrs, maybe even days (depending on location the pilot landed), the original pilot might again be available on the roster board (unless he got killed or captured)

oleg already added "managing your plane", where individual planes will keep a history of engine use and abuse, damage, stresses and repairs, so why not add further elements to the pilots history and events ? most of the needed elements are already built in from the start, its a matter of combining some of these and it will significantly increase realism and immersion (for the non-airquake players). gamers that dont like/want them simply do not have to use them and can keep the current perfect health pilots that instantly can teletransport to a brand new plane at any airbase location at any time, there just should be less continuity of pilot history in that case

Can we have a link to these posts, please...

Eeeeh, whats the Screaming Eagle emblem doing on a pilots jacket?

I'm not sure if it's been said yet, but there was someone who posted earlier that it was attempted by at least one luftwaffe pilot to steal a plane to escape. Chuck Yeager, after being shotdown over enemy territory, hid for several weeks before stealing a FW-190 to escape to friendly territory. I'd highly recommend his autobiography.

Actually it was Bob Hoover, wingmann of Chuck yeager, who stole the Fw190 and escaped to the Netherlands after the escape from a prison camp.
There was only 1(one) german pilot who escaped a few times from a prisoncamp in england and was transfered to canada because of that, where he escaped again and reurned to germany to fight again. That was Franz von Werra (The One That Got Away), he almost managed to steal a prototype Hurricane, he was arrested while starting the engine.

He uses his sidearm!

and people DO swim the channel, dont they :)

plus BoB takes place in summer, so good weather for a swim

And the fall... the Italian's launched their attacks much later on.

I hope if they do this they model some proper sharks for the Pacific. We already have the seagulls.

I assume you aren't serious?

The quickest Channel crossing by a swimmer prior to WWII was by Gertrude Ederle, in 1926. She took 14 hours and 39 minutes. A little boring, I'd have thought...

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Ederle

i'd like to see movable cattle and horses in certain fields at some point, and them scattering when we buzz them (for ex during takeoff and landings in nearby fields). having some basic interaction with objects like that (triggers) really adds to immersion and increasing the illusion the world you fly in is alive..

when i previously asked oleg about this, his answers was something like "not at the moment" (no animated animals, just static entities). but lets hope buzzing bicycles or cars now produces some "smart" interaction, you should be able to buzz them into the ditch with a low passover :)

Also back in the 40's finding a large amount of Goose fat to cover yourself in would be tricky for an escapee to say the least :)

Link? Proof?
As far as we know it's confirmed to be controllable ground objects in form of AA guns and equivalent objects, nothing else atm. The engine might support it but there is NO indication that it will be included in SoW at all.
Besides it would probably be a rather jagged experience, the game is designed to be a flight sim not a first person shooter or walking experience, and yet again just because the engine supports it doesn't mean its gonna be an ideal experience.

What possible immersion could you get of trying replicated the experience after you've bailed and landed seriously? Life simulator?
Oleg is already committing an ridiculous amount of effort and passion into making the aircrafts, aerodynamics, damage-model etc as accurate and realistic as possible.

you are in the wrong forum for that, no poof's here. if you are in the process of timidly stepping out of the closet and need poof links, use google to find your new bbf

thankfully you'r completely wrong, and again on another topic are showing you dont know what you are talking about. neither do you seem to make a basic effort to inform yourself better and get up to date on what EXTENSIVE information has already been provided on this before you start babbling on as if you know everything in the universe. its maybe typical behavior for a teenager and your stage of devellopment, but your making yourself look like a fool here, and no yapping on and on repeating the same nonsense wont change that.

happy to report that yet again you are wrong, o so wrong. you just go away and play with your tonka trucks and we'll start using the next gen flightsim world that is being created by oleg once it gets released, bon voyage !

jeez, gosh, what could it all mean ? life must be bewildering to you, and in your little bleak mental world it must be rather dull and boring.

the good news is that for the rest of us, and all you need to do is read the extended snips of news and information oleg has given here and on other forums/articles/interviews over the months/years (none of which you seem to be familiar with) , is that oleg in his revamped work for BoB in the last few years has built an entirely new level simulation world into the sim engine right from the start, still with aircraft as it primary focus (it is a flightsim after all), but with a whole immersive world around it that you can interact with, and this will be gradually expanded on.

that includes
- a 24/7 dynamic server with an unfolding scenario we can interact with (several versions even, partially scripted historical series of missions for ex, and a fully dynamic "anything you do affects the outcome" type where the german side could win BoB). you'd be able to join a dynamic 24/7 server like that at anytime (confirmed) and either get a tasked mission list to choose from (like falcon 4 servers), or "free fly" from various airfields you select.
- ai activity at airfields with ambulances, fire trucks, even an ai routine for buses/trucks/cars on roads (some london double decker buses initially, but probably some additional traffic on roads). ability to refuel and rearm aircraft at airfields, so in theory you could presumably fly around for days at a time with the same aircraft.
- different crew positions you can select in the same aicraft (takeover from the pilot if he gets killed etc). even be able to select another ai aircraft to takeover as a pilot (so that if you get killed on a long coop server mission, you dont need to wait 2 hrs for the net game to rejoin.
- ground vehicles you can drive, probably at least one included from the start (depends on deadline issues, but that was/is still oleg's aim to include from his latest statements ), but if not will be added soon thereafter (and feature built into the engine from the start). several people are already making new vehicle models for this (with complete 3D cabin), like foobar with the volkswagen and a frenchman with his citroen. the vehicles will have doors etc that open and close (to get in and out etc), moving peddles and steering wheel, working mirrors etc (just like aircraft, but i suspect detail level for vehicles one notch below the aircraft, similar to the current ships prob).
- looks like you will be able to load trucks and trains with specific cargo and objects to (my hope is this will be integrated into the dynamic campaign and restricting or damaging trains/trucks with supplies to the frontline and airfields will interfere with their fighting ability). oleg even posted pics of individual munitions for AA guns etc, presumably when you blow up some of those boxes near an AA gun it will reduce its ability to fire that type of munition even.
- damaging hangers and other supplies at an airfield will reduce its supply of fuel and ammunition for aircraft there, and the availability of aircraft themselves if they are damaged/destroyed
- integrated multiple components of the air defense system, like radar, but also spot lights of AA batteries (damaging one element in the group affects the overall performance etc..)
- ability to control and fire guns in tanks (and other ground fighting vehicles). this is probable next step after the first cars have been made available, but opening up a whole other dimension to the sim. one aspect of this is controlling some AA guns at airfields right from the start
- the "pilot" will be an articulated 3D character that can control various objects and vehicles/planes/guns etc. (for example at an airfield be able to run to an AA gun, or run/walk to a different aircraft to fly). no idea to which extent this will be provided from the start, but the recent video of the pilot climbing in/out of the aircraft should give you some clue's they have achieved this.
- ability to control some smaller ships, oleg already stated he hoped to have some included from the start ( like torpedo boats iirc, or maybe just able to rescue downed pilots in the water ?), if not soon thereafter. the naval aspect of the sim is another aspect he plans to expand on to, and will allow 3e parties to work on further very quickly
- aircraft (? and pilots) will have a "history" attached to them, where damage/wear-and-tear etc is kept a record of, affecting aircraft performance over multiple missions (? and pilots performance if fatigued or injured etc)
- water is 3 dimensional and has depth (presumably can add submarines, submersed object etc)

presumably oleg is working towards an integrated air/land/sea sim, where as a flightsim you can have some control over the other elements (ground/sea)

and no, none of that means a flightsim gets turned into a 1e person shooter, but yes, he does aim to provide a whole new immersible world where you can interact with other objects like ships/trucks/tanks/cars (large sections will be left to 3e parties to put the effort to develop further, with oleg providing the initial elements)

so for a bailed pilot after landing to take control of a vehicle (or walk if you are really really patient) and make it back to base in BoB isnt that far fetched (be this in real time, or accelerated time). will oleg be able to get that much included from the start, no idea, hence this threads topic and question to him, hoping he'd give a glimps of how far he got with it.

its nice to know you care ! now go and read some of the extensive information oleg has already provided on this over the years (including in this forums threads which you could easily read if you weren't that lazy), on what will make his sim so different and nextgen compared to other standalone product. then maybe come back afterward and nicely ask some of the grown ups here (who have kept up to date on developments) for further information and they might just answer. sadly, i suspect your caught in an age related mental feedback loop where you perpetually believe only you can ever be right even if you know very little about the subject, and you'll just keep blabbering nonsense on and on, while sadly being completely unaware of what is actually is being created

I would like the 'walking home to base idea' if it includes the 'hiding-under-the-haystack-in-the-barn-avoiding-the-Gestapo-only-to-be-discovered-by-the-18yo-mademoiselle-as-she-was-going-to-milk-the-cow' option.....

(Assuming I was an Allied pilot on the Continent, of course).

So Zapatista's response to an obvious typo is not to provide the links requested, but to come out with a stream of personal insults in his usual ungrammatical style.

Time to stop feeding the troll.

and the lazy response from AndyJWest is to not even bother reading the previous posts in this forum by oleg (in addition to what he has said in his main interviews about BoB), which already addresses most of those same points in detail with direct answers by oleg himself (as most of the longer term users of this forum already know)

Zapatista placed on ignore list...

my my, this was hard to find :) 60 sec with google to be exact, i must be some kind of genius, or is it that that you are, well, lets just say a little slow and leave it at that

(email update on devellopment from oleg to simhq admin, in 2009)

http://www.simhq.com/_air12/images/SoW_auto2.jpg

foobar's Kübelwagen (interior/exterior model )

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-conten...03/vw82_02.jpg

(quote from foobar the railway modeler in the same thread at simhq)

i must be some kind of genius, somebody stop me, i cant help myself

all joking aside, i am confident most long term forum'ites here will have been well aware of this side of development for BoB, and yes there are lots of snips and comments from oleg over the years (even in this very forum) that give information on the same elements, you'r just to lazy to make a minimal effort to inform yourself

http://datastore.rediff.com/h450-w60...baby_fight.jpg

How easy everything would be, if you'd stop talking about extremes.

zapatista talks about things probably possible with SoW, virre89 talks about things most likely included in the release version.

Boy, the world is simple, sometimes.


Neither means you will be able to milk the cow on your way home to survive and let's not exaggerate what is possible in FC2. Yes, you can walk around. Yes, you can walk home. With the speed of a racing-turtle by using your flight controls - whoooyaaaaa. :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTg5hbbN1Mo

If that is what you wish for, go ahead, but don't make people believe that you jump out of a jet in a flightsim and fight your way back like in ArmA2.
As it was stated before, SoW will remain a flightsim, no matter if you will be able to walk around, man AA-guns or drive vehicles.
If you want to get an idea what this is about, check out ship and cars for the FS-series. Even if it's 1000% better it's still a flightsim, not a tactical ego-shooter.

@Zapatista

I am just trying to be realistic, whilst you just keep insulting me.
Give it a break will you?

Don't think i bother to read your responses when the 2nd sentence include "how stupid" i am and that i should go back and play with my toy trucks..

It was interesting to see "teenager" used as an insult by someone younger.

Oleg rules out walking pilot
 

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=14390

Lol?
In IL2 I tried some times to make the pilot to land near an enemy convoy...
But nothing happened...If he could get arrested or shot...