Friday 2010-01-15 Screenshots AND Discussion Thread
 

Happy New Year everyone! The team is back after some much-deserved rest over the holidays and we are back with another Friday update.

Our today's installment showcases the de Havilland Tiger Moth.

These are taken within our model viewer, and the background is not representative of the actual in-game terrain.

External:
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_07.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_08.jpg


Cockpit:
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_00.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_01.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_02.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_03.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_04.jpg


A little bit of damage:
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/2010_01_15_05.jpg


This concludes this week's transmission.

Looks great! I see the 'AM' is now correct vs. 'AN', nice! Questions:

Will it be possible for two people to fly the Tiger Moth together for training purposes like how FSX supports more than one pilot in an aircraft (eg. L-39C)?

Will we be able to set the altimeter to match the current barometric pressure, or is the setting knob just eye-candy?

Thanks :)

Thanks for the update!
I like the leather touch on the stick :)

By the way, every time I see the planes' pictures from the updates I say to myself: "I hope the final product will be better. I'm sure it will be!"
Though I don't think that graphics are the most serious part of a game, my opinion so far is that graphics are much alike IL-2's graphics.
I don't see any revolution there, and that's why I say this mandra to myself. I want to be sure that final product in high-detail mode will be surprisingly good! (Like I said "WOW" with sea and ships).

Once again, thanks for showing another target :P

Thanks for the update Luthier. Happy New Year to you and the rest of the team. Glad you had a good break.

The Tiger Moth looks very nice indeed. I'd love to see some video of game play now please!!

Thanks

PPanPan

Thanks for the update, obviously theres alot more work to be done before finished but it looks like your at least halfway there.

good wood!
 

the worn and painted wood work looks terrific! all good for in-the-pit immersion for sure. of course I intend to keep my peepers outside, and on the lookout for the brutes in the Sun. ;)
thanks for the Friday dose!
Flyby out

Those SOW models look very different than the il2 birds. Why and where you are now asking, so take a look on the details, a much higher polycount on nearly every object, covered with highres textures. The technik in wich way those models where modeled is a bit different, they used much more details and attention to the objects. They are looking awesome!!

Maybe if you where a modder or someone who works with 3D tools you would recognize it much earlier and would think .. oh damn great work!!! If not, you need some time;) just sit back and wait until the final product arrive. I have no doubt about the final product and quality of the ingame models!
:cool:

Awesome job guys

Very nice, the texture of the wood looks spot on! Thanks Ilya!

I just saw the chromium windshield frame - amazing!

Love it, but the dashboard texture is not up to the rest of the cockpit. It is low res and pixelated with too much bump mapping, IMO.

Wow, the texture work on that cockpit its amazing. The wood and metal from the plates looks perfect to me.

You are referring to the aircrafts particularly, or graphics in general? Because if its about the aircraft, i think they are excellent, and would like to know what you mean with "revolution"on that subject. I think its reasonable that the BoB aircraft (exterior and cockpit) are more an evolution because already the IL-2 cockpits are in the majority very good.
Now if you are refering to graphics in general, i understand your concern because only the basic has been showed to us on that area.

Regards!

...


Happy twenty ten all !


Amazing view of the front and rear flight deck, full of crispy details and differences. (to mention the Cheese-cutter trim and altitude control lever)


Makes me wonder if the 'Windy' speed indicator is spring loaded and the Auto Slots could be locked ?



...

Lovely pictures! I'm really interested in how the terrain will finally look. I'll be surpried if I get an answer here, but will is square up to WoP? I mean, the terrain in WoP is slightly cartoony, but is better than most sims that are available. The auto-pop detail in WoP is extraudinary: could we see something better in SoW? :grin:

@ TreeThanks for the update, obviously theres alot more work to be done before finished but it looks like your at least halfway there.
================================================== ====================


Maybe it's supposed to be a surprise?

S~! Luthier

Pros: Good Attention to detail

Cons: Washed out low poly look as usual (stop this crap), over-weathered, dull .... this is not 2010 quality ....

Conclusion: Looks like IL2 ...... :arrow:

Compared to the other models that have been show-cased, the interior looks comparable, but the exterior model looks very similar to current IL2?

I realise the landscape is different, not an issue, but the exterior model doesn't look as lovely as the previous Spitfire and Stuka shots posted.

Could I suggest that you also turn on anti-aliasing when you make a screen-grab, it would make the models look a lot better than the current 'jaggy' edges we see.

I'll still buy it though, so keep going and hopefully we'll see it this year?

Cheers, MP.

Thank you!
 

Please keep em comming!

LOve to see a He111 next tine especially the meccanism to elevate the pilots seat.

Regards

Viking

I get the feeling the lack of AA is intentional. As weird as that sounds, what other explanation could there be? This update is not even in the game engine so conflict b/w AA and some other DX feature isn't a concern.

The amount of detail in this model is fantastic. Fabric stretched over ribs, great textures (the aluminum is spot on), welds (!), turnbuckles, clevis pins, realistic control cable ends ... a bit of AA and better lighting and this model would look a LOT better.

The sharp front edge on the piece of wood attached to the door that fits over the longeron takes away a bit from the model. A bevel there would help but maybe it won't be noticeable in the in-game lighting.

Weathering looks right to me and is consistent with Tiger Moths I've seen. Got to fly in one in Caboolture, QLD. These planes were obviously newer in the 40's but they were trainers and used quite a bit.

I have a feeling I'll be flying this plane a LOT :)

I don't see how the exterior model could be more detailed without going really crazy. People should go and look at photos of it; it's not a very complicated aircraft. It's certainly got a lot more detail than any of IL-2's aircraft - see the ribs in the wings, the roundness of the tires, the detail of the prop, the shock absorbers in the undercarriage. It has as much detail as any of the biplanes from RoF. It's just the lighting that's not that great, but then I also don't see the point of criticizing the rendering quality in the model viewer. It's like criticizing an FPS's graphics in the level editor.
I do think the team are stretching this out a bit too much, though. There's only so many DX9 renders that can be exciting to people, and they're only exciting compared to IL-2. Anyone who plays other games than flightsims has been seeing self-shadowing in games since Doom 3 in 2004. That and the polycount is the only thing that's different from IL-2 in most of these pics. I'd love to see more shots of interesting things like that set showing the different lighting in the sky at different times of day, or even just a .gif of a prop in motion, the prop in those Stuka shots looked great. Little details in short videos.
I hope we can see some screenshots from the DX11 renderer soon as well (assuming it's working yet), this 2005-quality DX9 lighting isn't really much to shout about...I can't imagine that most of the people that play this game will run anything lower than a DX10 card for this game, anyway, we're all fanatics.
And please, PLEASE use some antialiasing. There'll be hundreds of people who aren't big on flightsims who've looked at shots of the game now and just gone, "looks crap, won't be getting that" just because of the lack of antialiasing. There are a lot of people who don't know a lot about video settings and 3D rendering and suchlike who just write jaggies off as "bad graphics".
The exterior model itself, the cockpit detail, and all the textures are absolutely excellent, though.

I just want to see some terrain shots (actual terrain) and some effects visuals. We all know the planes and cockpits will be good, I just want to see some shots of things we haven't see before. Maybe a video of the dynamic weather? ;)

Love the Tiger Moth, I can see myself spending alot of time in this aircraft.

Hey, c'mon Protos - that compass has more polys than a whole train in IL2 ;)

Love the cockpit - having flown the Moth myself it's especially fun to see it. Even though you will unfortunately never get the "wind in your hair" and smell simulation needed to complete an open cockpit simulator ;)

Great work!

IIRC, Oleg did a very detailed explanation over and over about AA and graphics in general.

I'm pretty sure that if you check the discussion threads of most updates (try the earlier ones), you'll find them.

I don't remember it in details, but the result of (X+Y) times Storm of War³ plus Graphical Issues times "To Be Solved" equals to no anti-aliasing and low-standard screenshots for now :mrgreen:.

That's an outstanding Moth you have there. And that second shot... If you remove the codes, I'll have a new wallpaper :) Lightning is a masterpiece, looks almost more realistic than real life.

Terrain isn't worth commenting because, as you guys had to say two million times (at least), that isn't anything close to final or anything like that.

The aircraft 3D model, as all Storm of War models we've seen so far, is superb. Smooth curves, attention to every single rivet, very detailed.

Textures are a piece of art, really. Specially the weathering, just loved it. It looks very, very natural - not too clean, not too dirty, just "operational-ish" :-P

And there are the shadows... What can I say about them? Such shadows should be at the Louvre, not in a computer simulator. Looking really outstanding.

The cockpits just continue to blow me away. All the tiny little details modeled almost to perfection. I can already imagine myself going for a cross-country flight, few clouds, a cool breeze, the fields passing by... Nevermind, just dreaming with eyes open here. Last shot just shows the power of self-shadowing.

Comments made, I could resume this long post in one phrase:

"Never in the field of flight simulation, so much detail was put in so many things by so few" :mrgreen:

...and then some insane ones talk about Wings of Prey, with its all-mighty brown atmosphere and all the filters orgy around it?! What the hell have you guys been smokin'? WoP will stand for Wings of Prehistoric (and unrealistic!) graphics and flight when Storm of War is out. Totally guaranteed :cool:

Thanks for the update, Ilya. Hope you and team enjoyed the vacation. It was well deserved one, after all. Now, back to work - you have some fans to feed! :mrgreen:

Another great update. Thank you Oleg.

Would be nice if you could get over your WoP is better than BOB fixation long enough to see what is in front of your eyes.

How can you look at Pics 4, 5 and 6 and say that? :rolleyes:

Thank-you Luthier :D

Very nice detail and thanks for the update!...Im looking forward to the great possibilities with the duel control's in SOW. Again, the detail is just amazing really caint wait, thanks

Some of us are too fixated on oversaturated, whiz-bang graphics to know what a good sim even is, I suspect. Even if SoW looked like IL-2 (which it almost certainly will not), it would hardly be the end of the world. Just as long as the flight modelling, damage modelling, and all the other things that go on behind the scenes (and thus what makes a sim a sim) are improved accordingly, I will be happy.:)
________
Yamaha gladiator history

+1

Check screen shots with some of these pics:
windshield frame is just the same: http://www.warbirdz.net/largepic.php?ID=14330

http://www.warbirdz.net/largepic.php?ID=17474
http://www.warbirdz.net/largepic.php?ID=14304

If anti-aliasing was on would be much better!

Luthier if it works at windshield, would be nice to add more metal!:)

http://www.warbirdz.net/largepic.php?ID=16428

All Tiger Moth pics:

http://www.warbirdz.net/results.php?...20Tiger%20Moth

(By the way excellent site!)

OMG, I think I just....in my pants....I gotta have some alone time...

:YourOlegs Ideal customer. :grin::grin:

low poly??????
Are you actually seeing the pictures? The poly count is so high its scary.For example if you look at the floor in front of the joystick you can see a member made from steel tube which has been squashed and bent at the ends. I can tell by looking at it what it is made of, and how it was manufactured and how it is fastened just as I would in a real tigermoth. Please feel free to post some screen shots of anyother flight sim with a similar level of detail.

a small reminder of the inofficial SOW wave. everyone with a google wave account feel free to add information or pictures.

https://wave.google.com/wave/?pli=1#...%252BIez_3mm-A

right now its just a collection of olegs updates, but it can become much more

meh...seen the tiger moth plenty of times, things must be going slow in the studio

Looks great. My great uncle flew Tiger Months quite a bit during the war... I'm sure he'd love to take the virtual representation for a flight or two sometime!

Haha! I guess so. It's the guts of the sim that really matter. Cutting edge graphics are just icing on the cake.

________
New Mexico Medical Marijuana Dispensary

Looks good and super detail but it seems like IL-2 mod to me. :confused:
Hope we could see actual flight video soon.

a couple of points on the instruments- several are of a later than 1942 style- presumably from 'restoration'

asi is wrong AFAIK

dh asi
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...s/DH82ASI3.jpg

pre 42 'white' was used not flourescent green- a similar type to what you have used looks like this
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f.../mphlarge1.jpg
1946 date is a repair date marking

turn and slip indicator
again green indicates post '42

early pattern
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...-46-i-n-11.jpg

detail on centre of this later one might be of use?
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...gauges/584.jpg

compass
you are using a later p11 type- noticeable from the 'T' shape course indicator- should be 2 parallel lines for ~40
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ompass3400.jpg
note also the way cardinal points are marked- square red base for north
this also applies to spits/ hurri's
the larger 'bomber type' compass has a triangular red north
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...s/IMG_1914.jpg

altimeter
also has green numbers- should be all 'white'
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...lt-1-large.jpg

Dolphin,

At a first glance one can think the same, especially on externals, but then one should realise that the details are 10x those of Il2, the materials look much more realistic (wood, paint, glass, leather, chromium), shadows and lighting are in another league, and (cross fingers) the rendering is not yet the final one.

Bye,
Insuber

I love it... If I where Oleg, I'd put you on my list that gets on the beta team and a free copy of the game for doing the instrument research for them ;)

oleg & Co,

thanks for posting an update, that is an excellent looking tigermoth !

one comment: the current lower detail picture posted (? not direct x 11 and without lots of AA and AF ?) makes the wings look like they are a very solid dense structure, rather then the fragile and flimsy cloth texture on an aircraft of that type in real life

for ex compared to these photo's, where the wings also have a more "cloth like texture" to them, and you get a real sense of how fragile and delicate the wing surface is in real life
http://www.warbirdz.net/pics/accept/warbirdz_15340.jpg

http://www.warbirdz.net/pics/accept/warbirdz_14299.jpg

could be that the end product of BoB in its high detail shows the current BoB tigermoth more fragile and flimsy as it should be, but in its current illustration it looks a bit to solid imo

+1, this man knows his stuff.

Yeap, I agree Insuber (and rest of those who objected) and maybe I didn't make myself clear.

What I mean is: the plane graphics I have seen so far have not made me say: "WOW!!!"
They are definitely more detailed than IL-2's, but in the end, it's only like seeing a better worked IL-2; not something revolutionary, keeping in mind that we're 10 years after (recall that rock band? lol) the initial release of IL-2. What I see so far is closer to the great work done by some of the modders in IL-2. And definitely I expect more in 2010.

And that's why I said from the first minute that I want to belive that final product will be much better, cause what I see so far does not live up to my expectations.

In any case, I know that Oleg is listening. So far, whenever a serious objection has been heard, he has worked on it almost immediately. I know he likes more than everyone the good words on his work, but above all he likes to hear suggestions and comments that can help him deliver the best.
He's such a perfectionist that he'll listen to anyone, if he can get something good out of it, and that's why he's the developer closest to the community than anyone else in this industry.
I know that he has a better feeling than all of us of what he can do and what he has done so far, that's why I trust that in the end I will say that "WOW!!!" :D.


PS. By the way, one more thing I need to make clear: for me it's the rest of the game that matters most (FM, DM, mission generator/campaigns...) and not the graphics. I'm just commenting to what I've seen so far.

in such a long time", if I can add ... :D

Dolphin,

OK I understand what you meant and agree on it.

Have a nice weekend,
Insuber

Great info bolox, thanks!

It is especially lovely for me to see the Tiger Moth, because I sent some photos of the example in the Brussels Air Museum. Did they help you Luthier? I was the guy who also sent you photos of the Gloster Meteor there... - Hope to see my name in the credits in SoW if the pics were any help :-)

Søren Dalsgaard

Im with you on this one Dolphin, I would like to see that Oleg has used all the latest technology to get the best results on how the sim finally looks, if you compare the visuals of the origianl Call of duty to Call of duty World at War you can clearly see the advance in technology that has been used. At this moment in time and I know we are still a long long way off completeion but I'm just not seeing it, like you I just see a tarted up Il2. Maybe this time next year I will be more excited.

the chrome windshield frame is very convincing even not in the engine

your like a whiny little kid, even after getting banned from here for several weeks for all the negative crap you keep posting you'r still at it. your stuck in this childish mindset of constantly complaining and seem to have the expectation mommy is going to plonk a breast in your mouth if you just whine enough

by all indications BoB is well on track and will be released in the next few months, if you dont like the previews being posted how about you just piss off and only return in september when it is going to be on the shelves

for anybody with half a brain it is obvious oleg is just posting some selected previews of specific items at the moment to keep us informed and start building some expectation in the fan base, but is not showing enough to give a true indication of BoB in all its glory yet so he doesnt give to much away to the competition either (no terrain detail, no final textures and color schemes, only a few selected objects, limited info on dynamic campaign engine...)

since we already know 80 or 90% of individual components of the game are finished already (plane and ground models, campaign engine, weather effects, maps...etc) and oleg skips the alpha phase completely by then integrating these nearly finished elements directly into a beta stage product for fine tuning and testing, i would say we are very well on track for having "1000's of people flying BoB by the anniversary of BoB in 2010" as oleg stated himself recently (meaning september 2010 i presume)

on a more joyfull note

redbull air race pilot flies spitfire on the island of white, comparing the performance of both planes

http://www.spitfiresociety.com/conte...ersus_MX2.html

some nice shots of the spitfire with some very white looking chalk cliffs in the background :)

Looks magnificent!!

S!

Very constructive post Zapatista, look if you want to be a beta tester just ask.

and Oleg is holding back on all the great stuff so that the competition wont nick all is work, can I ask what competition we are talking about here? Is it WOP per chance owned by Maddox games?

That's rather naive. RoF can be seen as competition and so will any future combat-flight-sim that's released. With the scope Oleg wants to offer with SoW, then even jet sims will be seen as competition.

While we are on the DH-82 Tiger Moth:

Norway tried it out with armament!!
Here, the machinegun is visible in the front cockpit:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/...82skytefly.jpg

And here is the gun installation:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/...l/DH82Mitr.jpg

I'm really not sure but I think this idea was meant for training student pilots in aerial gunnery. I assume the gun is synchronized with the propeller.

Skarphol

Wow, the cockpit textures are really impressive. I can almost feel the faded green wood of the cockpit fame. And the chrome of the windshield frame and the leather padding...is magnificent!!!

It dose make me wonder about the sound engine...All these great cockpit graphics really, really make me wonder what we can expect from the sound engine. As we fly around the world (in game) we will see the light reflecting off the chrome and we will see shadows moving across our dashboard, and window frame. And all these "dynamic lighting" tricks help put us into the world of the game.

But what about sound? For example; as we sit in the cockpit of the "Tiger moth" and turn our head left and right, the tone and intensity of the wind, engine and flapping cloth will change in relation to our position. All these little changes in tone and intensity will add to "our" perception of our place in the virtual world (cockpit). I have never really heard a truly convincing use of 21st century gaming technology in a flight-sim's sound engine.

Their is sooo much that remains to be done...the sound of a shaking and straining (squeaking) air frame as we push the "G's". The change in volume and tone as we move our head around the cockpit. Buffeting wind that mimics the actual "virtual weather front". Or how about the subtle change in our perception of sound as the altitude increases?

Please excuse my slightly "off topic" musing's....thanks

To give credit where it's due, much as i dislike certain aspects of that sim i have to say that Rise of Flight is very good on sounds, almost excellent in fact. If you haven't tried it, it's worth getting the demo for the sounds alone and to be more precise, for the way you can use the sound to help you fly the aircraft.

Before engine start if you move your stick you can hear the noises made by the controls and linkages moving. These are drowned out by the usual engine and gun sounds in normal operation, which are well done as well.

The thing i found most impressive though is the sounds of the open cockpit. If you are flying in a normal fashion and looking straight ahead, you're behind the windshield and the noise is low. If you move your head to lean left or right however (via TrackIR or the default view controls), you'll immediately notice that the wind noise is much higher. Wind noise also increases as you speed up, so in a 250km/h dive it almost overshadows the engine. Also, even if you are perfectly aligned with the windshield, if you side-slip the air is coming at you from the sides and once again, you get increased wind noise. All this makes it possible after some practice to fly the aircraft by sound, without looking at the instruments at all.

Probably a pretty good assumption, or some poor fool drew the short straw with his enemies in the squadron. :grin:

Flyingbullseye

Cool...that's nice to hear that the "RoF" people have spent some time on the game sounds. Their is really soooo much that can be done and has been undone....thanks for the "RoF" critique.

I'm sure one could massacre European Cariboo (Reindeer) with it. I'm glad they didn't. I suppose most of the remaining herds were semi-domesticated at the time? So, the Sami would be unhappy.

Anyway, it would be a nice field mod to have. It would be funny to fly against the Me-262...

Can you fix the links? We have some problems to see the screens.

Thank's!

Bye
Phant

S!

Interesting Tiger Moth :D Finns used Brewster to hunt elk (Euro Moose ;) ). Loaded the .30cal and shot them, recovery team picked it up. A good addition to the food repertoire. Reindeer is best next to mashed potatoes or as dried meat ;)

I have a problem with these links, I am not able to view any screenshots or videos. Can someone please fix the links and I am looking forwards seeing updated screenshots and videos.


Chaoic out...

The links is dead :O
 

Please fix the links, I really want to see the pictures.

They're relocating servers! They should be online again soon.

You can also check them out on Foo'bar's great website, right here!