Realistic just "isnt"
 

Have been playing nothing but sim mode recently, so i have not been on arcade or realistic, though to be fair i've never gone near arcade anyway.


Well tonight i jumped in a game with pope and see on realistic, it was a dogfight.

After the game finished i have to say -

i hate realistic mode with a passion. I can no longer enjoy the game and be proud with myself for geting a kill because my target is lit up for me like a christmas tree, all i have to do is follow the great big red arrow.

Though i only play sim mode anyway, i will not be going onto realistic anymore, its just crap lol.


Anyone else got an opinion on the game mode? or anythnig to share about a certain difficulty? Any gripes? post away :D

Can we please make this or another thread into a gripe thread?

I am honestly getting sick of the whining all over this board. If you're gonna complain, at least do it in one place.

BTW, this wasn't directed at you in particular, FOZ. Just pent up annoyance.

Sim mode is hard on my small SDTV, but I'm working on it. After I get back online I'm going to start working on the transition to only playing Sim mode in dogfights and team battles.

I wish you could make custom game types though, like keep some features of realistic, but turn some of them off. That way you could make a good balanced room if some guys want to play sim, but others aren't quite "there yet".

Also, does anyone else find the handling in Arcade harder than Realistic/Sim? It's a bit strange that. :neutral:

i have no idea what the issue with non HD tv's and this game.... may have to try it out

Enough people "gripe" then hopefully they will ;)

Oh I agree, I have onl plyed 2 sim dogfight games and I was annihilated (edal86!!!!) and yet I had WAY more fun than doing ok in arcade, the arrows and never stall is just awful and takes away the challenge.
As I said in another thread, heroes over europe has more multiplayability than BoP on arcade and possibly realistic

I use realistic a lot because of my crappy SDTV. (can't see anything on Sim) I never use the lock-on button (although the game auto locks on whoever you shoot at :mad:) Even when it's locked on I don't use the auto look at target button and I try to ignore the arrows. If I ever get an HDTV, then Sim mode, here I come! I wish there was a Sim mode variant now that was completely the same except for icons over planes.........:(

Yes YOU yourself can try to ignore the arrows, but you can bet your life the guy trying to shoot you is following them, so losing your tail by flying down low in the trees is not possible. Thats just one example why I dislike realistic online.

Cut my teeth on SIM mode tonight with FOZ, Pope and the rest of the guys. I really enjoyed it and the chat support from your team mates telling you who's on your tail and doing what makes SIM mode an even more realistic experience. Playing with a great set of guys and the tactical communication is better than any HUD. Many thanks for the help guys. :)

Does anyone use a flight stick/planning to use one for their PS3 in sim mode?

It think the only reason I dont play sim mode TOO often is because I have a little issue with clicking the joystick down to stare at my enemy. It's a problem because sometimes I want to stall turn by pulling into an immelman, cutting throttle just when my nose is about to point down and then throttling back up for a nice, tight turn.

But when I'm staring at my enemy with the stick, I can't decrease throttle.

And the whole joystick thing defeats the purpose of a console game for me.

Anyone think it's possible to be successful in this game if I just use my controller?

No worries mate, was happy to help you.

You picked it up really quick and it was great playing the 2v2 with you, you played well in that match and kept me informed of where the enemy were at. Your playing with a great bunch of guys (with the exception of that mouthy american kid!! he drives me ******* mad!!), but on the whole... they will look out for you :D

Thanks FOZ, appreciate that!

In reply to the question about Game pads V controllers.

There are some very skilled peeps using a controller. If you prefer a controller then its a matter of getting used to the lack of HUD and enemy lables. The planes seem to handle better in SIM IMO so I doubt you will notice any difference to Realistic. Not sure what stick you have (or is available for PS3) but usually they have top hat buttons for panning which don't interfere with the flight control actions.

Simulation just "isn't" either...
 

I personally think realistic is the way to go...

How is looking at a map to see EXACTLY where your opponents are realistic?
How is clicking in the right joystick to move your head around while using your other thumb to move your plane realistic?
How is planes disappearing into the sky and not fading out gradually realistic?

Plus++

I find that being confined to the cockpit isn't exactly realistic either... since you cannot move your head around like in real life. Also, having only the landscape (which isn't that pretty) to look at is very bland (yea, I know, but I like the mix of cinematic 3rd person action with realistic flight and damage models)

PLUS+++

The only sim games that I can find are no more than 4 people, and there's always somebody in a La-7 whizzing around raping everybody in sight. Realistic may just be turn and burn, but simulation is turn and burn trying to find everybody, atleast in realistic you're turning and burning in order to shoot someone...

The bottom line is that I just don't enjoy it... yea, there are some things that I like, like the combat flaps and being able to hide, and how it's easier to damage your enemies. But in the end, it's usually a waste of time. Sorry guys, but simulations aren't always that fun..

I like how realistic mixes fun and realism, to where you ahve an accessible, historically close experience that you can jump right into.

Peace.

Can answer quite a few of these with 3 word :) - use a joystick

How is only being in cockpit view NOT realistic? its as close to real as alot of us will get, and with the joystick you use the HAT switch to freely look around, having to wonder if anyone can see you.

Each to their own though mate, if you like "realistic" mode then thats your porogotive i wont disagree with you. This is just my personnal opinion :D

All the modes hav etheir pro and cons.....

For instance it is totally impossible to pull any of the classic dogfight moves in simulator mode. Try pulling a "Retournment", "Immelmann Turn", "Slip-Turn", etc. without your aircraft freaking out.

Looking around for targets is a pain due to the simple fact that players are restricted to tunnel vison because we're limited to TV screens. Having to push the right stick down to gaze around (disabling use of the rudder and throttle) screws up any hope of pulling off some clever acrobatic maneuver whilst keeping an eye on another aircraft is impossible.

Another problem with simulator mode is that any hit on a control surface makes aircraft freak out, and as we all tend to end up right next to the deck in dogfights, we all tend to prang before we manage to regain control. The downside of this is that nobody is credited for the kill and some folk acuse other of crashing on purpose to deny a kill.

The lack of a target following ability (only if the target is in view from the cockpit) is what puts most folks of simulator mode, Flying iwith tunnel vison is a pain. The damage model and flying is better though.

In arcade everything is fly by wire but all the classic dogfight acrobatics can be performed. The combat s at a faster pace and players can focus on marksmanship, tactics and dogfighting skills. On the down side all aircraft are harder to shoot down than in realistic and simulator mode unless a hit on the pilot is achieved, which is kind of difficult on aircraft with rear armour on the pilot's seat.

Realistic combines some of the damage model and handling properties of simulator mode with the target following of arcade.

The same problems of players loosing control of aircraft and pranging when hit still exists though and this wouldn't be a problem if everybody flew at the historical altitudes that dogfights were fought at.

To sum up, arcade mode is there for those who like to try out all those dofight maneuvers from history channel historical airbattles and from books, realistic is there for those who want a more realistic damage model and simulator is there for those who want air combat to be a totally masochistical experience, only be able to fly in shaky circles (because anything else will freak the aircraft out) and enjoy crashing a lot, etc.

Actually shooting down another aircraft is quite an achievement in simulator though usually through luck than skill.

Simulator mode is still fun though, but not for serious dogfighting in.

Because of the confines of flying on a T.V. screen. If I were playing a flight sim on of those wrap around T.V. setups or a real simulator, THEN, I would prefer playing inside the cockpit.

Plus, most people don't eve use the cockpit view, they use the HUD only view, and you're at a disadvantage if you use the cockpit view. Also, with all the gripes about dead zones and all, I really don't want to spend upwards of 50 bucks on a flight stick.

I just don't want to see players switching over to simulation because, more and more people are downing realistic mode on this forum and it upsets me.

Panzer, have you been drinking? :P

i find most of the above to be pure crap. Sorry mate.

On the using the map to find the enemy and navigate, in the "Red Baron" PC flight simulators players have to use a reproduction WW1 paper map and try to navigate from circling over the ground and trying to figure out where they are in realation to the target they're supposed to be attacking.

Avoiding flying over enemy FlaK batteries, aierodromes, etc.

There is no "you are here" map button in Red Baron, players have to learn to navigate.

And of top of this players have to cope with the unstability / fragility of whatever aircraft they're flying, changing weather, cross winds, look out for enemy fighters, fuel and oil guages.... it makes realistic and simulator mode in BOP look tame.

Now if a WW2 sim had all of that Foz would be even happier.

Oh the joys of having a PC mate :D

but sadly as games get better the price of a good pc goes up to and its just getting ridiculous now, i'll just stick to the 360 for the near future. Games like the above though mate are superb!! makes it so much more of a challenge.

I just recently switched from realistic to sim. Its so much better besides the fact that I can't look all the way around the cockpit with my joystick.:mad:

Why cant you look all the way around your cockpit?? just use the HAT switch and you can free look all round it :D that is if you use the saitek joystick...anything else then ive no idea, sorry.

hahaha what?? Erm..um.. It is the ONLY mode for serious dogfighting!

I cannot bring myself to fly anything other sim in any modes, takes away the challenge and IMO the point of the game...I bought Heroes Over Europe for the 30 kill a mission frenzies!

lol thats the reason i play realistic because you can track the target because my left hand controling the plane has a habit of doing the same as my right hand on the camera and i get killed alot

If anyone is trying to dogfight in simulation mode with a controller, I highly recommend switching to the aviator control scheme (press square on the options page to go to controller set up, then go right one from the default).

This set up is way better because you don't need to hold R3 to look around, and you can control throttle while looking.

The downsides are that you lose analog control of rudders, and trying to land or use a bomber gun turret are nigh on impossible.

Give it a try... ;)

ok time to add my 2 cents worth

sim mode is they way to go :grin:

if you want to feel like you actually hunted down a target moved in for the kill and then shot them down using only your own skill then sim mode is for you the best games ived played on bop online have been sim mode battles :grin:

my only gripe with sim mode is that it is hard to spot the enermy as it is hopfully when the patch come that will change

im playing on full hd and still find it hard to spot them when they are close by but i think that is down to my own eyesite after a couple of games i have to stop and take a break becuse it makes my eyes sore so i usally go for a ciggie and a cup of coffee then start again :grin::grin:

I have to admit I get irritated in SIM dog fights.. I just can't see well enough. It's my eye's fault though, not my display, because I am in 1080p on a 37" HDTV. But, I simply can not see well enough. When I actually do see someone, by the time I get close enough to see if it is friend or foe, they are gone. I play SIM team battles, and dog fights, but I can only do one or two of those at a time before I get board. So, in the dog fighting I prefer realistic. However, as you most know, I am a CTA guy, and absolutely love CTA in SIM best.

Arcade, I just can't do arcade at all. I had to leave a couple flying friends behind already because I just can't get them off arcade....

Sim, for me, is the only way to go. Not having a rocket powered plane is what makes it good, you have to maintain energy and use skills to maneuver. You can do Immelmans all day in Sim, but you have to maintain energy to do it. To all the realistic players that get frustrated with sim, try practicing off line, almost all of the skills you use in sim (head turning while flying, energy maintenance, finding enemies, gunnery) are things you get used to with practice and when you do it all becomes very rewarding because its all pretty damned hard, just like it was in real life.

I am interested in input on this idea. I am wondering if it would take away from the SIM experiance in the following. People like myself with the only problem with sim. I have the hardest time following my foe, even after I find them. I think it is much harder than in a real aircraft due to the lack and quickness of reflex of a natural head turn when you see a potential target. I am thinking some help to compensate for the lack of depth perception, and natural reflex would be ok with SIM mode. For instance, I do not like in realistic how you can not hide, or use any stealth strategy, but you can in SIM. This is what I love about SIM, and don't want to do away with that ability. However, If there was a way, that you can tag a potential target AFTER you detect it first on your own would be helpful. I think you should be able to lock onto something once you detect it, even if for an aloted time period. For instance, you seek out enemy or potential target. You see something, so you can lock onto it and track it with the left trigger as in realistic, until you release that trigger. Once you release it, you are on your own again to find it again. This would give you the quick head turning ability as an more natural sense and speed as in a real plane. But once you take your eye off it (release the trigger), to look back forward to get your baring, you would have to find it again... Would that be something doable, and would it be a worthy, and fair compromise in your (the hard core SIM fokes) opinion? I think it would be, and would love SIM exclusively if I had that ability that I feel would be more natural, and compensate for the lack of depth perception lost on a display.

I don't have as much of a hard time with tracking bandits using the hat stick, but I would play a game with the system you mention, it seems like not a bad compromise. Of course, the real solution is Track IR on a PC. Perhaps somewhere down the road a sequel to BoP could feature Natal support for just the head turn function? Man, that would be sweet!

For me its sim only. I use the aviator layout on the control pad so its easier to look around and control throttle and rudders at the same time, but i admit target are sometimes extremly hard to find and follow.

Nonetheless, I think it'd be nice if they could make the difficulty levels more, lets say accurate. I wont talk about arcade mode cause anything goes in there i guess. But whats lacking in realistic mode is that u dont have full control of the airplane (no flaps and trim control, so not really realistic) but alot of visual assistance, i think they should provide both in this diff level to make it more enjoyable/challenging. (landing is way too easy in realistic for example)

Also, i think the virtual cockit view should be taken out of the sim mode, to make it like a real simulation mode. I mean i'm no ace, getting pwned in mp skies here, but managed to go through campaign in sim mode quite easily due in part to the virtual cockpit making it possible to see all around ur plane, even under it, with no blind angles (the enemy A.I. being totally dumb makes most of it tho).

See i usually fly with the virtual cockipt but fell like i'm somewhat cheating. Played a few games with friends online and in sp in cockpit view and it takes the immersion feeling to a whole new level, but if ur dogfighting against some1 whos using the virtual when ur not, he def has an edge on u.

Again i love this game (cant wait for the patch tho... stcik, visuals, G locks and red outs r gonna change aerial combat in mp for the best) and these are just suggestions that i think would make the game more challenging for a futur version.

Cheers

Edit: that tag/lock on/tracking view thing would be nice addition in sim too

I dont see why so many people have a problem with arcade?

It's the public IL2 attracts. It's usually more sim-minded people. Arcade is good fun for some, but the skill requirement is a bit lower, and doesn't have that much of an impact. Also, the flying is obviously nothing like real planes, except maybe for some jets or something :P.

i agree entirely i just dont see why people give arcade players stick (not particularly on here) for choosing to play how they want.
On reading that back it sounds like a rant, it was never intended to be.

Not the worst rant on the forums, so don't worry :P. People shouldn't judge anyone for playing arcade. Unless they start talking about the flight model/characteristics of airplanes.. (no offense)

None taken:)
thats what i like about this forum and this game, everybodys so nice even when their shooting you down in flames.

thats what i like about this forum and this game, everybodys so nice especially when their shooting you down in flames.[/

fixed lol

I find arcade harder than realistic actually. As you have to turn up sensitivity to max to compete on level terms with anybody and that makes slightest movements amplified.

I find it harder because I don't know how the planes react.. it's in no way like real flying. Especially the speed range is confusing.

P.S. lol @ Philabong

Tell me about it. Foz and Pope and I have a very good, friendly rapport but they both love nothing more than to fill my rear end full of lead and leave me to gravity Gods.. :-P

Hey guys! I have a question about Realistic controls using a flightstick! Are you able to use the rudder properly with a stick as opposed to a gamepad? Cause I use the Gpad and on Realistic you can't even really touch the rudder for fear of stalling and slipping sideways.

Is this a sensitivity issue that the pads can't handle? Thoughts?

I usually don't use rudder. With the stabler airplanes you can use it to roll faster, but there's a chance of spinning. Anyways, you don't need it to compete in a dogfight in my opinion.

Interesting! I'd always used it on Arcade diff to aid banking and for fine aiming adjustments but I guess that's why it's Arcade diff! Pilots probably didn't use that in real life!

Thanks for the input Seraph!

Aha well actually the rudder has a VERY good use in dogfights, but only at one specific point. when your going head-on, dont fly directly towards them, then use the rudder to aim at them, most players ive noticed just fire straight, but this way your firing in an arc, so you can hit them, but they have a much lower chance of hitting you.

8/10 times its got me a kill or serious damage without getting a scratch.

On a stick the rudder is a separate action by twisting the yoke so less likely to accidentally use it (unless you want to!).

On the ace edge flight stick the rudder is a rocker switch on the throttle control. I use it all the time for fine tuning my aim, headons, rolls, slips to bleed off speed during landing, and alot of times to keep my plane in the air when the wing is damaged. Just be careful when you're slow because too much rudder=uncoordinated stall (spin). I play on sim mode if that helps

i tend to over-use that twisting action (not on purpose on top of that) on the av8r-03 and its seriously killing my wrist.

Anyways its collecting dust right now until the patch come in and ill check what kind of stick will b compatible then.

I never thought of that... sounds practical :).

Actually, I think they used it quite a lot in RL. You need to use it to fly a 'coordinated turn'. This is the most efficient way of turning, thus losing the least amount of energy. It's just impossible to use it in a sim as well, because of the lack of feel, and turn coordinator.

i love 'rudder kills'. especially when someone passes fast above you (coming from the side for example).
You pitch up 90 degrees, put the pepper on the guy, and then whe he overflies you, full rudder to keep peppering him in the pass. I do this pretty often, and most of the time the guy passes quite close, so the hits really do a lot of damage.
just love it... pitch up, shoot, follow with rudder, stall/spin due to the rudder, and then recover and in the mean time see the enemy crashing in the ground :cool:

I like how there are three modes of flying, I just wish there was realistic, then a mix of sim/realistic, then simulation... Arcade mode should just be in BOP and not the sequel... I think most people that would buy the sequel will have by then surpassed the enjoyment of arcade mode.

What exactly are the flight model differences between sim and realistic? Besides the bouncing up and down and having to trim, they seem about the same.

Flight models are the same, afaik. It's just the automatic trim that's not present in sim, and it's a bit more shaky.