Unlikely Matchups: Mosquito VS. P-38
 

Well, inspired by a previous thread, I thought it would be cool to start a thread every few days comparing planes that would probably never face eachother. The previous thread was talking about who would win between a BF109 vs Zero.

You can use simple stats, or make a little anectdote.

Between these two, I think it would be hard to tell which would win 9 times out of 10. To be honest I dont know, what do you guys think?

mosquito would win hands down.

It was fast, well armoured, manouverable, a joy to see. The P38 or the fork tailed devil as the luftwaffe called it was a beast to though. Get into a dive with it an nothing the luftwaffe has will keep up.

To be honest, they both have two engines, nose mounted weaponry, but i would have to take the wooden wonder everytime.

I think maneuverability wise, a Yak-3 against a A6M2 Zero would be a good match up. It would have to be a A6M2-21, but none the less both planes would be interesting to see in a TnB dogfight.

Maybe even an American F8F Bearcat against a Yak-3 would be cool? The Bearcat would probably win depending on the circumstances, but it's kinda hard to tell with either of them?

i like the sound of this thread.

Interesting to give it a thought.

How about a sopwith camel vs Eurofighter typhoon?

In all seriousness though i really like to think of the Mosquito vs p-38

id say Mozzie but its hard to say

It's hard to say for sure, the pilot is just as big a factor as the plane.If one pilot has the element of suprise the fight could end prematurely.I'm going to go with the YAK though.

This is the reason we could never know for sure

we can only go from statistics

That's true. But that's why I'm not sure, and it would be interesting in a mock dogfight?

Also, between a Mosquito and Lightning? It depends once again on who got the jump first? The Mosquito could turn, and the Lightning more than none would have to use BnZ tactics against the Mosquito, unless it was at a higher altitude; where the possibility of a Lightning turning with a Mosquito would be possibly more equal.

I thought it was the Japanese who called the P-38 "forked-tailed devil"... ?

EASY!!

Sopwith camel.

For a start, heat seeking missiles wouldnt work, you have no big heat source to lock onto. And the camel is that slow that the typhoon would have a nightmare trying to keep him in his sights etc.

Just look at the swordfish - "obsolete" during WW2 yet comes out smelling of roses attacking the bismark and the italian fleet at taranto.


In all seriousness though, dont write off the sopwith camel ;) it might sound like a david and goliath set up but you never know. Anything is possible

Anything is possible. But not that scenario.

Well I do plan to start maybe one of these threads every few days. Ironically enough, neither of these two planes are in the game. I am sure me and many others would really enjoy them.

Call me crazy, maybe its just because I am American, but I think the P-38 wins this. Something really bothers me about a wooden plane being fired at by cannons.

Another thing...I could be wrong so feel free to correct me, but is the Mosquito THAT much more manouverable than the P-38?

Firepower and speed are very close.

Could this possibly be a draw?

I know it mostly depends on the pilot, but I just wonder which would win in most cases in the hands of an average pilot.

Don't be so sure.. The typhoon is incredibly manoeverable at low speeds, plus, with a 27mm cannon all it would take would be a quick burst and the camel would be disintegrated.

Fair point about the IR missiles, but if they fail, there's always Radar guided.....


Anyway, back to the topic.... Mossie would win, purely because its cooler. And as for it being more vunerable to cannon shells due to the wood construction.... correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought that durin the BOB, Hurricanes were found to have excellent durability against the 109's cannons, as the shells tended to pass through the wood without detonating (as often)?

Since all the voting seems to be following along national lines -- I'll say the P-38 -- since I'm American...:grin:

How about the Wright Flyer vs. 2 F-15's? The pilots would just land and chase it by foot.


I wish I could find that video on youtube. It was on an eposide of the Simpsons.

I don't know my friend, the Lightning had extremely low wing loading, I think it could probably out turn a Mosquito. Also the P-38 was extensively used as dedicated fighter with an impressive record to match (America's 1st and 2nd highest scoring Aces both flew it exclusively), whereas the Mosquito was used primarily as a hit and run attack aircraft. I actually think this argument might be the opposite of what you suggest; the Mosquito might well have the highest speed with the Lightning being the better turner. Also the Lightning had better armor, being metal, than the Wooden Wonder.

I'd pick the Lightning every time. See the episode of Dogfights that features Robin Olds to see what it could do in straight dogfights.

Yes, but like Robin Olds said in a book about his life in WW2, the P-38 was a good plane; under the hands of a good pilot. So it depends. The P-38 was performed better in the Pacific, than it actually did in Europe. And that's why most of the P-38s were shipped over there, rather than keep many of them in Europe. So once again, it depends.

Ha, well pilot performance being equal, the Mosquito just wasn't designed to be a fighter, she was designed as a light bomber, whereas the P-38 was intended from the beginning to be a fighter. I mean just look at them, its like proposing a dogfight between a F-111 and an F-15.

Was the P-38 really used in the Pacific more extensively than the the ETO due to performance, or was it due to the USAAF's need for an aircraft with extreme range in the Pacific? Not having aircraft carriers, the P-38 is the only American aircraft, prior to the P-51D, that could get the job done in the Pacific for the USAAF.

What if a B-17 crossed paths with an He-111 and they wanted to kill each other?
It would be like a naval battle in the sky. All the guns firing to one side while they circle around each other.

That would actually be seriously cool to see..... what would be even cooler would be a squadron of both types of bomber, in a massive brawl.

My money would have to be on the B17's though... all those .50 cal's would tear the Heinkel's to shreds

Another thing to think about possibly: Being that the Mosquio is all would, would it be able to hold together as well as the Lightning in turns? Or would it be too much stress on the airframe?




Disclaimer: Although I have national pride, most of my favorte planes are NOT American. So I am not as biased as some may think.

Exactly my thought. The mosquito was primarily a bomber. It was only because it was such a great plane that it could be modified to do other jobs (night fighter and invader). It was never used as a dogfighter though so it would probably lose against the P-38. The DeHaviland Hornet on the other hand WAS designed and built for the same role as the p-38 (long range fighter bomber). Based on the Mosquito but with a heavily redesigned plywood fuselage including a single seat cockpit, new wood/metal wings and four 20mm cannons. The Hornet was lighter, more manuvurable and with a top speed of almost 500mph was a lot faster than the Mosquito.

The Hornet V Lightning would be a much fairer comparison, and the Hornet would win by a large margin. Only problem is that the hornet was built in 1944 and WWII ended before the first planes could be delivered to the RAF.

Well, wandering over to Il-2 Compare, the P-38L Late shows a best turn time of ~25 seconds (with flaps), while the Mosquito FB MkVI can only manage 31 seconds (no improvement with flaps). The P-38 has a 20-30km/h speed advantage up to 4km, at which point its advantage increases rapidly, and it climbs better throughout hte entire flight regime.

Basically, the Mosquito has excellent performance for a medium bomber, but the P-38 is a purpose built fighter.

On the P-38 in Europe, to my understanding the P-38 had issues with icing, and dives, and as both cold, and diving opponents were prevalent in Europe, it wasn't very well suited to conditions there. Most of the 109 and 190 variants have comparable or better performance in most respects, and because the elevators stopped responding at high speed, if the P-38 got the upper hand, the German fighters could just dive to disengage.

In the Pacific theater, the Japanese fighters tended to rely more on agility, so the Lightning could play to its strengths more, and the nature of the theater demanded much longer ranges than the ETO, which was another major P-38 strength.

On match ups I would like to see, P-47N vrs Yak-3P. The P-47N has a 2,800hp engine, and was more agile than the previous Thunderbolts, due to it's enlarged, clipped wings, but the Yak-3P will turn loops around it if it lets itself get caught in a furball, and will bite hard with 3xB-20's. What makes it more fun is, until about 4km, the Thunderbolt would have only a small edge in max speed. It will be a real battle over who can control the energy fight.

Even a squadron level fight of that would be something to see: the Yak's cannons mean you can't just "drag and bag" the way you can against Zeros, or (to a lesser extent) 109's, but the Yak's construction isn't enough that it can shrug off a hail of heavy MG either.

Best analysis so far, in my opinion.

What exactly are the radar guided missiles supposed to lock onto? Wood & canvas doesn't have that great a radar return, and I'm not sure if the engine would provide enough of a return to lock onto.

that reminds me of an event I helped set up, we had a P40 warhawk flying in formation with an F18 hornet (maybe super hornet).
The thought if it still makes my spine tingle!
What a sight that was, if I had the equipment to get video from analogue tape to pc I'd YouTube it

very good analysis, but its also imprtant to remember that the P-38 was also prefered in the Pacific theater due to having 2 engine reliability. Lets face it, almost every engagement and missions in that theater invloved long flights over a vast ocean. Wouldnt you want an extra engine to limp home on if need be.