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-   -   The Saitek Aviator AV8R-02 for Xbox 360 sucks (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=10117)

SL83 09-27-2009 04:54 PM

The Saitek Aviator AV8R-02 for Xbox 360 sucks
 
Just so you guys know.

Zip tie mod gets rid of the stiffness, but the deadzone is so huge it is unbearable.

Honestly - and it's sad to say this - the Xbox 360 gamepad is the better choice between the two.

No such thing as precision control with the aviator.

Ancient Seraph 09-27-2009 05:04 PM

Kind of a bold statement don't you think? I for one enjoy flying with it. Maybe a poll or something would be a better idea, instead of claiming to be the all-knowing being.
Just pointing out to people who're thinking about buying one: there's a certain risk you won't like it, some people don't. There's also a risk you do, so don't be put off by a random topic like this. For it's price it's a very decent buy, especially if you're having trouble maintaining a certain attitude with the small joysticks on the controller, like me. And the deadzone is annoying, but you get used to it. I now just skip the deadzone and am able to make pretty small corrections where necessary. And that without any mod :D.

SL83 09-27-2009 05:14 PM

No - not a bold statement at all. Just truthful.

I can move the saitek aviator within a 1.5 inch radius, 360 degrees - and the controls do not respond AT ALL.

Piss poor junk.

I observed a deadzone problem on the PC with it as well, but if anyone is going to say that the 360 drivers are what causes the problem - the fact is - it still is a horrible way to play the game.

The freelook is great - everything else kinda sucks.

MorgothNL 09-27-2009 05:40 PM

it is your opinion, not fact like you seem to state it ;)

I actually really like it :), took me a day or 2 getting used to, but now I cant do without. You get used to the deadzone as well, now I never notice it anymore. It is kind of nice to fight with the controls when dogfighting :)

akuma 09-27-2009 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL83 (Post 105477)
No - not a bold statement at all. Just truthful.

I can move the saitek aviator within a 1.5 inch radius, 360 degrees - and the controls do not respond AT ALL.

Piss poor junk.

I observed a deadzone problem on the PC with it as well, but if anyone is going to say that the 360 drivers are what causes the problem - the fact is - it still is a horrible way to play the game.

The freelook is great - everything else kinda sucks.

Maybe its your stick thats broken, or perhaps you are expecting too much?

My stick works just fine, there is a slight and tiny deadzone near the dead centre of the stick, but factor in your flying WW2 aircraft its hardly going to respond like an F-22.

iannik 09-27-2009 05:50 PM

I don't like how Aviator works, but i absolutely better than gamepad

Marchochias 09-27-2009 06:39 PM

Yet another kid who thinks his opinion is fact. Oh well.

RedKicker 09-28-2009 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxqubit (Post 105498)
Dead zone of Aviator (360) is the same in BoP and AceCombat (i did a quick test)

I have to say that I disagree with that. I have both the AV8R and the Hori Ace Edge and the deadzone is much smaller in the Ace Edge. Don't know how or why, but it just is :)

Lexandro 09-28-2009 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxqubit (Post 105498)
Some ppl have argued there is a way around (the Api???) cause they stated that the deadzone was fixed in HAWX (never played that game though)

It was me that made this statement about HAWX (as I own the title). The offical patch notes for the game state that there was issues with the deadzone on all versions and that UBI did indeed fix the issue specifically. I dont know actually how they did this, as I dont know much about coding for 360 specifically but it was done.

In the 1.0 version I was never able to get level flight in game, I always was climbing or diving slightly no matter how gently I moved the pad due to the huge deadzone. In the updated version (1.2 iirc) I am able to get stable level flight now by a gentle push on the pad.

juz1 09-28-2009 10:15 AM

well you know what they say about a bad workman and his tools....:grin:
________
BUY SILVERSURFER VAPORIZER

FOZ_1983 09-28-2009 11:42 AM

i use the saitek also and for a straight out fight i like it, its responsive and does the job i need it to.

BUT

i feel mislead by the BIG sticker that is attached to the front of my IL2 case that says "works perfect with the saitek AV8R-02" because this is clearly false information.

Back on topic, for a dofight or team battle i find it does the job its needed to do and does it fairly well, i like using it.



My prob is though... i enjoy capture airfield and i'll be damned if i can land without getting shout up because i need alot of runway to stop due to having no brake on the stick. The button layout is also really messed up, but thankfully some of thee buttons i tend not to use so can look past it for now.

These issues will be addressed in the patch/dlc i do believe, so its all about playing the waiting game my friend.


chillax

King Jareth 09-28-2009 11:46 AM

I tried using mine on PC but it thinks the rudder and throttle are the same axis (Z).

Flywest 09-28-2009 02:04 PM

I agree there is a deadzone but if you play on Sim, it's clearly better than the gamepad. Except for landings :(

Raw Kryptonite 09-28-2009 02:46 PM

It's an inexpensive stick and I got what I paid for.
I don't like it either, but I have no issues with deadzone. I don't like this piece of cheap plastic creaking and sounding like it's going to crumble apart.
The button layout (not the game, the stick's design) is asinine.
People have to put a TENNIS GRIP on it to make the stick feel right in your hand and not just a cheap piece of conduit.
People put a ziptie on the spring, which doesn't give the stick enough resistence as it is.
Had to rub a bar of soap on the base so the stick would move smoothly due to this design.
Someone complained of breaking trigger, and I can see that easily happening. The build quality is terrible. I've had to tighten screws on it twice already, especially the stick itself, since using the rudder felt like the stick was going to twist apart. Eventually this thing will need to be permanently glued together. I take care of my things, unlike some, but that doesn't always compensate for something simply built poorly. Maybe I got a bad one as far as it holding together, but the design and parts quality is still *poor*.

Benrizz 09-28-2009 02:55 PM

Yes it is... But that's the only affordable stick that we can buy....

Let's say that it does the job

Flywest 09-28-2009 03:51 PM

I agree it is cheap, it feels flimsy and it probably is. That point aside, there aren't too many flightsticks on the 360... it's either that or the gamepad which to me felt horrible in that game, especially to look around in simulator mode.

TargetSlayer 09-28-2009 05:51 PM

Like some folks, I come with a background flying the PC IL-2 series using CH Products, and am also disappointed in the availability of a quality stick. Agree with others, much better than the gamepad, but the dead zone is a real issue. I have put the game aside for now until the patch is released, since I prefer to land afterwards I have no brakes at the moment.

Great to see new folks enjoying this nice flight sim. Not wishing to dampen anyone's enthusiasm, just being honest based on my personal experience.

I would respectfully suggest that the developers/publishers of future console sim flight titles must provide/encourage the availability of decent hardware if they want to develop the market, which sadly will likely always be a small piece of the pie. Wished I could use my Microsoft Sidewinder stick. Great layout, heavy base, and laser precision accuracy. This was a great stick until I got into the CH gear (stick, throttle, and rudder) with TrackIR.

Alas, I am sure once the patch comes out I will be enjoying this game. Hopefully it will be successful enough to warrant future releases and revitalize this gaming niche so that hardware manufacturers can provide the necessary equipment (assuming MS allows the licensing).

Regards

Raw Kryptonite 09-28-2009 06:55 PM

I miss my old Sidewinder FF. Incredible feedback and resistance. Could even feel the landing gear locking into place. I'm not crazy about the wet noodle stick feel of my X52 either really, but it's a lot better than this thing.

I've gone back to the controller. Controls are accessible and well laid out (even if not as good as OGF is), feels better and it's not creaking like it's about to fall apart. It may not be force feedback either, but the thumbsticks are the right tension. Not to mention I like having the rumble feature, which the flightstick doesn't have. Just something I'm accustomed to having.
I'll try the Aviator again when we can customize the controls and have a wheelbrake. Maybe I won't be so pissed off at the flightstick that it ruins the game for me.

SL83 09-29-2009 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TargetSlayer (Post 105881)
Like some folks, I come with a background flying the PC IL-2 series using CH Products, and am also disappointed in the availability of a quality stick. Agree with others, much better than the gamepad, but the dead zone is a real issue. I have put the game aside for now until the patch is released, since I prefer to land afterwards I have no brakes at the moment.

Great to see new folks enjoying this nice flight sim. Not wishing to dampen anyone's enthusiasm, just being honest based on my personal experience.

I would respectfully suggest that the developers/publishers of future console sim flight titles must provide/encourage the availability of decent hardware if they want to develop the market, which sadly will likely always be a small piece of the pie. Wished I could use my Microsoft Sidewinder stick. Great layout, heavy base, and laser precision accuracy. This was a great stick until I got into the CH gear (stick, throttle, and rudder) with TrackIR.

Alas, I am sure once the patch comes out I will be enjoying this game. Hopefully it will be successful enough to warrant future releases and revitalize this gaming niche so that hardware manufacturers can provide the necessary equipment (assuming MS allows the licensing).

Regards

Yeah, I WISH I could use my CH stuff. :(

dzyeph 09-29-2009 09:13 AM

About to be on my 2nd attempt with this stick, the first one has the rudder constantly pulling me to the right, it's flyable but unbelievably annoying which is a shame, aside from that it's a lot more fun to use the stick. Support for other higher quality sticks would be nice (but unlikely).

The lack of a landing brake makes for some interesting landing attempts though, I can just about manage it with the stick but I need the full length of the runway to do it and involves lots of weaving and shooting to try and slow down, tis a somewhat bizarre sight.

juz1 09-29-2009 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzyeph (Post 106196)
About to be on my 2nd attempt with this stick, the first one has the rudder constantly pulling me to the right, it's flyable but unbelievably annoying which is a shame, aside from that it's a lot more fun to use the stick. Support for other higher quality sticks would be nice (but unlikely).

The lack of a landing brake makes for some interesting landing attempts though, I can just about manage it with the stick but I need the full length of the runway to do it and involves lots of weaving and shooting to try and slow down, tis a somewhat bizarre sight.


pulling to right? Are you sure it's not counter rotational forces due to the prop? Most single prop planes all pull slightly to the right...
________
Fz150I

FOZ_1983 09-29-2009 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juz1 (Post 106230)
pulling to right? Are you sure it's not counter rotational forces due to the prop? Most single prop planes all pull slightly to the right...

Try a training mission on realistic or sim, see if you have the pulling to the right.

Then try it on arcade and see if you still have it. If you dont have it in arcade then dont worry, its not your stick. Its the plane :D

SL83 09-29-2009 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juz1 (Post 106230)
pulling to right? Are you sure it's not counter rotational forces due to the prop? Most single prop planes all pull slightly to the right...

Even in Arcade mode? Cause my stick was doing it in Arcade - and if I noticed it in Realism mode - I passed it off as physics being accurately represented in the game.

But in arcade mode - it was like the rudder was stuck.

Also my planes were pulling to the left.

dzyeph 09-29-2009 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juz1 (Post 106230)
pulling to right? Are you sure it's not counter rotational forces due to the prop? Most single prop planes all pull slightly to the right...

It's the stick, if I go into the Hangar view, the rudder controls the zoom in and out of the planes view and it instantly zooms all the way in. Also, as previously pointed out, on Arcade it's still visible, with the slide to the right rather than the roll, definitely the stick.

Chrester 10-17-2009 10:07 PM

I got the stick a couple of days ago and its way better than the gamepad.
Although the deadzone is a bit irritating. Its hard to do the fine adjustments you sometimes need to do. The button layout will hopefully be better when we have the patch that let us customize the buttons layout.

Mine don't feel to quirky or flimsy, but i had to do the "zip tie trick" to make it more comfortable. The twist is to strong, i think i need to tape the wrist with some kind of tennis-grip tape.

But still its the best we can get for xbox 360 at the moment and after all, it does its job . . . with some small improvements ;)

Does anybody got it to work properly on pc?
Either the trigger and blue button and the wrist dont work. Put it on mode1 and the trigger works but no throttle. The throttle works as a button :confused:

Philosofrenzy 10-18-2009 08:17 AM

I bought mine after being frustrated by the control layout on the demo (being used, as I was, to the north american layout of R/C planes and flight games. Right stick= elevators and ailerons). While I don't have the same pin-point precision of practiced xbox controller users, I find the actual maneuvering 95 percent of the time is just fine. And you get a POV hat, which is well worth suffering the deadzone in my experience.

Would I prefer the deadzone disappear? Yes, of course. Does this make it worthless? Nah. I seem to do well enough. I do find it amusing how the first response tore apart the claim to authority and objectivity the OP has, and his response was, essentially, "no, I'm not stating my opinion, I'm telling you how things are FOR REALZ."

Chrester 10-18-2009 11:10 AM

I went to the store today and bought some soft tape you can have around various things. Taped the wrist up good and now it feels really comfortable :)

That and the zip tie mod. Guess its as good as it gets now :P

And yes, the hat view is really good on the stick. And its analogue too.
You can pan the view as much as you like. Really good :)

flynlion 10-19-2009 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juz1 (Post 106230)
pulling to right? Are you sure it's not counter rotational forces due to the prop? Most single prop planes all pull slightly to the right...

Engine and prop torque make an aircraft turn left, not right. That's why pilot's add right rudder when adding power for takeoff and climb, and why aircraft carriers always have the super structure on the right.

Draupnir2 10-19-2009 07:48 AM

Do some simple modding or rewiring of the Aviator guys, or even a full HOTAS redesign project like mine:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=10528

It is definately worth the effort, and saved the game from being shelved for me :)

During my study of the potentiometer input of the X360 i discovered that the original controller has an inherent deadzone in the way it reads the pots. That is probably why the 2 compatible sticks has this deadzone too. The less precise gamepad input conceals this phenomenon too a degree. If this shortcoming has a benefit, it must be that it eleminates the need for stick calibration.

Slightly OT: Now I am ready to make a set of more practical pedals. I have a pair of rugged metal sliders from a drawer, which can cater for the movement, and will try to hinge that up to the stick movement on the X360 controller in some way. I would think that a generous weight of the unit is a good idea too.

Any suggestions ?

Doktorwzzerd 10-19-2009 02:56 PM

My Ace Edge is in the mail, $96 from ebay and I can't wait to finally be able to look and use my rudder without screwing up my throttle. There's nothing more annoying than trying to out-maneuver a pursuer while keeping your eye on him and all of sudden you stall because you inadvertently chopped your throttle. Keeping your head outside of the cockpit seems to me to be the number one skill and you just can't do it with the gamepad. FOR REALZ.

Draupnir2 10-19-2009 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doktorwzzerd (Post 112171)
My Ace Edge is in the mail, $96 from ebay and I can't wait to finally be able to look and use my rudder without screwing up my throttle. There's nothing more annoying than trying to out-maneuver a pursuer while keeping your eye on him and all of sudden you stall because you inadvertently chopped your throttle. Keeping your head outside of the cockpit seems to me to be the number one skill and you just can't do it with the gamepad. FOR REALZ.

You got a very good deal there Doktor ! I was considering the Ace Edge myself, but the ridiculous second hand prices, and even high postage and VAT on top, made it a no-go for me. Never seen it this cheap. You can look forward to a completely new game now :)

StarScream 10-20-2009 08:37 AM

I tried out the demo on xbox and was blown away!

Then I saw a used Saitek AV8R stick for 20 bucks, bought it, tried using it on the demo and loved it! Then I bought the full game.

This is my first post and IL2 is my first flight sim game so I have nothing to compare the game or the flight stick to, except that the stick is far superior than control pad.

Sure I have to make adjustments while I'm in flight, but overall the Flight Stick accomplishes what I need and that is giving me the feeling of being in control of a ww2 plane.

FOZ_1983 10-20-2009 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarScream (Post 112322)
I tried out the demo on xbox and was blown away!

Then I saw a used Saitek AV8R stick for 20 bucks, bought it, tried using it on the demo and loved it! Then I bought the full game.

This is my first post and IL2 is my first flight sim game so I have nothing to compare the game or the flight stick to, except that the stick is far superior than control pad.

Sure I have to make adjustments while I'm in flight, but overall the Flight Stick accomplishes what I need and that is giving me the feeling of being in control of a ww2 plane.


Firstyl - welcome to the IL2 forum, its a good bunch in here and if you need any help just ask and you'll get an answer quite soon.

Im glad you love the game and the stick. Its a superb game and does the job its meant to do quite well. You'll notice a few annoying things when you play online but fear not they are being resolved when the patch is released which is any time now.

Also if you know anything about WW2 aircraft and feel that one plane doesnt fly as it should (P51/FW190 etc) dont worry some of these are being sorted to. Also german planes will get a cockpit view :)

Again - welcome to the forum mate

Doktorwzzerd 10-20-2009 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draupnir2 (Post 112271)
You got a very good deal there Doktor ! I was considering the Ace Edge myself, but the ridiculous second hand prices, and even high postage and VAT on top, made it a no-go for me. Never seen it this cheap. You can look forward to a completely new game now :)

As for the VAT and other Eurosocialist bloodsucking I can't testify and I feel for you:mrgreen:, but if you look carefully on ebay you can find auctions where the Ace Edge goes for $100US pretty routinely, I don't think theres a big scramble for it right now. For example my auction was at $95 when I entered my bid, it went to $96 with my bid, I remained the high bidder for10hrs and won with just that $1, so the other bidders must not have wanted the stick that badly.

Also the current devaluation of the dollar is sure to make it much more affordable for you, don't forget about that, your euros are buying alot more dollars now than a couple of months ago. Maybe that will help offset the tariffs and postage? BTW Was the Ace Edge not sold in Europe?

Draupnir2 10-20-2009 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doktorwzzerd (Post 112416)
As for the VAT and other Eurosocialist bloodsucking I can't testify and I feel for you:mrgreen:, but if you look carefully on ebay you can find auctions where the Ace Edge goes for $100US pretty routinely, I don't think theres a big scramble for it right now. For example my auction was at $95 when I entered my bid, it went to $96 with my bid, I remained the high bidder for10hrs and won with just that $1, so the other bidders must not have wanted the stick that badly.

Also the current devaluation of the dollar is sure to make it much more affordable for you, don't forget about that, your euros are buying alot more dollars now than a couple of months ago. Maybe that will help offset the tariffs and postage? BTW Was the Ace Edge not sold in Europe?

You are right, but after I made this http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=10528, I havent been hunting for the Ace Edge any more :) Now I just need to get the "pedals" more "streamlined"...


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