The real IL2 focus group (Everyone come in here)
 

In case you missed it , even on simulation difficulty , pilots will not blackout and red out under G forces.

This is HIGHLY dissapointing for a fan of flight games , and could potentially destroy multiplayer for the hardcore flight guys.

Use the poll to show your opinion on weather or not you want to see this INTEGRAL feature implemented into only the simulation mode

I'm already over it.
Are you enjoying the website?

? website ?

btw kryptonite , being "over" something doesnt mean you cant vote for what your opinion is.

Im sure you are upset about it , and if you are , show your support for the idea


The game is not gold yet and there are still changes that can be made (and i dont think this would be hard to implement into simulation mode)

if its in super if its not to bad

I'd rather have the game at this point than wait on one feature. If I pull 6 g's I'll just close my eyes until I level out.

Of course we'd all love to have these things and frankly I did expect these features to be here so yes I'm dissappointed BUT I'm sick of people whining about every single little detail of this game. This type of moaning is what makes even slightly more casual gamers think sim fans are losers and make no mistake this game is trying to straddle both sides ON PURPOSE. Lets be honest it would appear at this stage, prior to its release, that this game is going to set a new bench mark for flight games on consoles. That is all I ask. We may be abe to get pickier on the second edition but for now the guys that have made this game have poured untold millions of dollars and tens of thousands of hours into a game that if unsuccessful may ruin their company. I for one want every espect to be perfect but even if it is missing a few things the first time around, I am extremely excited and very grateful for the work they have done.

+>>

I agree with the whining part , but this really is an important feature if you are going to have a "simulator" mode in your game

It should be in BUT I don't think it will 'destroy' MP because accelerated stalls are in the game, you will not be able to just yank back on the stick unless you want to enter a spin. As Raw Kryptonite say's I promise to close my eyes in a 6g turn and let go of the stick, I don't really do high negative g's so now worries about red outs.

Actually, it is not that easy at all.
Different human bodies will react differently to certain G-forces. True, that on some (let's say 6g) most of pilots will be uncomfortable. But it is not that simple even in that case - effect accumulates, and have long effect, even if you are flying normally, already, you can still be readout/blackened for a while. It is confusing players.
And adding too much choises for MP isn't also good enough - imagine 16 different sessions with different settings and only 2-3 people in each.

I understand your reasons, of course.
Moreover, it were actually us who made this feature. And it is painful to know that the feature that was made, implemented, tested, polished and even presented to public already - isn't in the game now. There were reasons for it. Probably, not good enough for some of you - but we have to make choices all the time, a lot of them.

P.S. You probably don't know, but in October'08, our Arcade mode was much much more closer to current Realistic mode. And Realistic was a bit more close to current Simulation.
Focus tests showed, that average players are confused with that. And publisher even tried to force us to release game without 'Simulation' setting at all - but we insist on it.
Currently, Arcade is much more arcade, but Simulation is still very close to what it was. Yeah, there are no black-outs, and in Campaign (not in Single Missions) we have infinite ammo and fuel, and you can turn HUDs on (but you can turn them off, too), but it is still Simulation, with cockpit view, spins, stalls, flaps controls, no assists etc.
We had a fight with publisher to make flightstick support - they didn't care about it all, and were afraid that it slow down development and risk 1st parties Approvals (more TCRs for peripherial). We've worked directly with Saitek/Thrustmaster/MS to get all samples, and have done flightstick support on our own risk, to make sure the spirit of IL-2 will survive, and flighsim fans will be able to get pleasure from the game.
Yeah, currently everyone, including our publisher understand that it was right to do flighstick support/Simulation mode/etc. Flightsim fans are small audience, less than 2% of all gamers that will buy the game - but they are loyal, they build community, and more important, that is what the game is about - controlling the plane and fighting in the air, not simply arcade like Red Baron. It is also good, that we made Arcade settings more simple, they were right about it. If you look over previews, most of press (and they ARE hardcore players, not casual ones) still feel that even Arcade like it is flight simulation, and almost are not able to control plane in Simulation mode... So there is no just one side of the medal.
But please, do not explain me that absence of blackouts is ruining the game - that is a. not true, b. I know more about what can really ruin the game. You can just play the demo, anf not buy the game, if you really think so. It will be sad, though :)

it is a bit strange to have controls for trim in a sim but at the same time no black/red-out!
Personally I dont' care too much at this point, just let me play!
And dont get too upset about it; its too late to make changes to the code at this point.
(I guess) it has gone 'gold' allready and being tested at microsoft/sony - if they want to reach september launch.

Anton you are making a BIG mistake.
This is an important feature. You take it out, don´t call it simulator.

Oh well, perhaps next time. At least we are moving in the right direction and getting a potentially amazing flight sim for consoles.

I suppose, there are now a lot of flight sims on a market, and everyone of othem (except ours), has red-outs?

I've never called the game anyhow, except IL-2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey.
We are making it, you are voting for it - with your money, and your (possible) loyalty. If it is so important for you - OK, do not even try demo. Or, buy the game, and vote for blackouts in this (and others) polls - than we'll make it in sequel.

But my guess is that this feature is not what make flight sim game a real simulation. Flight sim - by definition - is the simulation of the flight, of the plane dynamics - not of the pilot's body reaction to it. Should 'real' flightsim simulate vomit on a spins as well?

The point being vomit, unless it really flies up and covers your googles, wouldn't hinder flying...black/red outs and the ensuing slight loss of stick control would interfer with extreme maneouvres and consequently handling...but there are times a combat pilot would risk it in extremis. It would add to gameplay...
Just sayin...:grin:
________
Gm foods

It's not a deal breaker for me. I am going to buy the game, I would have liked to see blackouts in, but after what Anton said about publisher pressure to not include a sim mode at all I will count myself lucky to have this game with any kind of sim mode, it is more about the flight model than anything else for me.

There some strange choices for sim campaign mode, unlimited ammo, fuel and no blackouts but it's not a deal breaker compared to what other flying games there are for consoles.

Also from reading Anton's comments it looks as if people with different difficulty settings can play in the same server, so us blacking out would give us a serious disadvantage online.

Don't let them get to you Anton.
You've seen on the forum here that there's always something being complained about, and it's always "the end of the world" if things don't go a certain way. ;)

I remember a couple of pilots on Dogfights episodes saying they pulled 9 g's and didn't even notice in the heat of the fight. That's pretty much at the point the plane breaks up.

1. In single missions, you can customize it yourself and play with limited resources if you want to.
In campaign, that would require us to make two different campaigns - one with limited resources, the other with unlimited. Two is not only twice more work, but actually confusing player - is he finished Campaign, if he had finished it in Arcade mode? Or he will have other missions in Simuation? Who's cooler - the one who finished on Arcade, Realistic and Simulation or the one who finished only once, but with limited ammo? Etc, etc. Keep it simple: Single missions - are hardcore enough, and can be played with limnited resources. Campaign - is more fun, less realistic and can't be played on limited ammo.
2. Blackouts/redouts are not technical characteristics of the plane. It is something related to pilot body, and can't be 'simulated' accurately. Moreover, red/black-outs (blood going to/out brain) is not just something red/black in the eyes. It is physical condition of the pilot. It affects his ability to react, to make decisions. It is something that can't be simulated on a TV screen.
What game can do, is only indicate that, probably in a real life, trained pilot would have red/black-out. (Most of gamers are not in such good shape and so well trained as real pilots were, and would suffer from redouts on smaller forces.) But in any case, your actions and reaction speed won't be really affected by redout.
The same goes to vomite in a spin.

I understand the reasons.
Once again, we made this feature. We've just decided to cross it out off the game, for certain reasons.

For sure I´ll try the demo. But I have been a fan of the original IL2 and this BOP has part of his name. IL2 made history and I expect at least from this BOP to be as realistic as the original IL2 is.

You want to take this feature out?. Ok, But don´t expect people say that it is an ultra realistic sim. Sorry this is what ""hardcore"" simmers are gonna think, including me. Blackouts play an important role and have been included since my first 16bits simulator.

To me this lower the standar of this sim, may be after I try out the demo I will change my mind but to me and for many others fans of IL2 are gonna see this like a weird decision.

You get angry because of my comments?.
Sr, critics said politely are good to improve things. I am not being rude but just trying to let you know how important this feature for many people is.

There you have the votes of the people. is not it enough to let you know what people really want?.

I'm sure most would agree that the reasons they are not included are good.

I did vote yes, but it's not a big deal to me, personally. As a console gamer, who's never had a gaming PC, I'm just happy to have the chance to play a game of this caliber in the genre that I love.

maybe anton it would be possible to add it as an extra option when making a multiplayer match?

Surely this would not hinder down users experiances with the game who are not ready for it.

but as you can see alot of people want to see it.

I know the game is not gold , and i know this is a fairly simple feature to add

So why not just add it as an extra option for multiplayer only?

Ha Ha I'll go with that idea!

Amen brother!

Please man, you know nothing. The games go gold about one month bf release. If they add anything now they have to change the user interface, redesign the manual and maybe do the testing again. Adding anything to the code can cause bugs.
Anton gave some good reasons, like it or not you'll have to accept it so just stop it
(and dont make me sound like your mom again:grin:)

btw, go re-read his comment on page one, he added a bunch. sim mode almost slipped!

um , no

a game goes gold a week or two before shipping to retail

And he gave no other reasons to get rid of it then some confused noobs they hired to play the game who for specific reasons could not have been fans of IL2 or they would throw off the focus testing.

http://xbox.joystiq.com/2007/08/29/i...has-gone-gold/
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55239
check the dates
also

the two biggest game releases in recent history

k

how about an accurate example?

:rolleyes:
yeah you are right, some extra time needed for the big games. turn it around tho, you find me an example of a PS3/xbox game that has been released faster than one month.. :-)

He was referring to the fact that you constantly whinged about the website not going live for weeks and now you're at it again. Jesus, if the game gets delayed coz of whining little perfectionists like you there'll be hell to pay. Just be thankful the game is coming. It's a huge gamble to take for any developer to bring this type of game to consoles. Show some damn gratitude.

And Anton, your vomit comment was priceless. Good on you mate.

1. Games go gold 4-6 weeks before shipping. A week or two ??? how does the game get certified then manufactured and shipped in a week :rolleyes:

2. Because the 'simmers' will make up about 5% of sales and 95% will be people that play on arcade settings so they are FAR more important to the success of this game than hardcore players. Thus for a focus group what sort of people would common sense and commercial sense tell you to 'focus' on, the 95% or the 5% ?

Be grateful that they have fought for and added a sim flight model mode for you when there was no commercial reason for them to do so and the publisher did not want it.

You could just not buy it, no one is forcing you to buy it.

First - game is gold.
Second - you hadn't read me carefully.
There were reasons, to do that. I've provided some of them. Forum posts, and small poll isn't something that can change it easily.

Probably it can be done in title update, I don't know now. Or in a sequel.
We'll see.

Your the man Anton.

I can't wait to play the game. Thanks for all that Gaijin has done.

You know, I think I can name more inaccuarcies in physics simulation, plane characteristics, and othe details in original game, than you.
Will it make original IL-2 bad game?
Was original Il-2 a console game? Why do you want the same game on another platform at all.
Was there any console flight simulation game at all? Why?

We made a new game.
Not a direct port of original PC game to consoles. A new one.
There will be parts of better simulation than original.
There will be parts of not-as-precise simulation as original one.
Because it is another game.

Redouts and blackouts - can be cool feature. But it isn't about plane flight simulation at all. It is about _game_. You are not really suffering from redout, when game shows you red screen, aren't you? So it is not about simulation, it is about indication, gameplay.

Yeah, OK.
Call it just realistic sim, without 'ultra'. Or simply just sim.
That means - sim.

OK, then don't buy it. No pressure from me.

No. I am getting tired, but not angry.
I understand your reasons.
I know a lot about our game, and about original game. More than gamers, and more than most of developers, and even more than some of developers of original game.
The thing is - you don't understand reasons.
It is hard to make a game, that will appeal to both audience. It is hard to make game with IL-2 name and even with another publisher, for another platform.

I am not telling that I am 100% sure, that that decision was right.
But it wasn't made because we've forgotten to make it, or were too lazy, or simply haven't known that such things happen to pilots. We made this feature, presented it on events, and yet it isn't in a release build.

Ask yourself, does this feature worth, let's say, possibility of ruining sales for a title? Spoil fun in multiplayer? Sequel? Simulation mode at all? Another year of development? Releasing the game at all?

That is what we were chosen (not in that specific case, I mean in general).

Nope. Most people in this poll here:
* are flight sim lovers. Moreover, hardcore once, who read forum :)
* are not against removing this feature. They'd like to have it (so do I), but not against removing it
* do not understand the whole picture (and not prentend to).
Besides, there are only 18 of them so far. Less than focus group, or even QA team.

OK, I have an idea.
Let's stop discuss redouts for a while.
I was going to release some Q&A instead, but I think I've used all my time for a weekend.
Talk to you all next week!

It doesn't bother me that blackouts are not in the game. It's not a feature I even thought about before, so knowing it's not in the game is no problem for me.

I am just extremely excited that this game is being made for consoles, and so thankful that Anton and his team took the time and effort to bring this game to the public. One small feature is NOT going to change my opinion of this game or discourage me from buying it.

I've been waiting for a console WW2 flight game like this for YEARS. Thanks Anton....

If they were going to take away simulation(!:shock:!) I PRAISE Anton for only having to remove the black/red outs.

BTW: what's a title update?(I may have misunderstood)

Nice goin' guys! Now we gotta wait til Monday for some Q&A!(jk;)):cry:

Thanks for your time, Anton.

It's a shame so much effort has been, well, wasted on this topic. I, like many here, would like to see a little blackout or redout visual... but at the end of the day, I am FAR more excited about how the game will play.

I mean, seriously, the closest thing I've seen to a sim experience for consoles is Over G Fighters on the 360. I managed to entertain myself for well over a year playing that game on single player only... and there were so many elements missing from that game.

With everything the team has included in this game - the beautiful graphics, the amazing sounds (hello? the crash in that gameplay video sounded spectacular!!!), the planes, the flight models, the missions, the options, etc. - there is nothing, in my humble opinion, that will compete and I made up my mind to buy this on release day a LONG time ago.

You can take out my favorite plane, the P-51, and I will still buy this game because it looks that damn good. I haven't been this excited for a flight game on consoles ever... and why? Because no one has brought this level of realism and detail to a game thus far.

Seriously, some of this bickering needs to end. Anton comes on this forum and has dealt with the highs and lows of "I love this game" and "OMG, deal breaker!" for the simple reason of trying to keep us informed and, perhaps, appeased. He has spent A LOT of time answering our questions... more than most would for other games. Frankly, I'd rather hear some Q&A answers in the other thread... or learn about other details of the game... than read 10 responses from Anton about why blackouts and redouts aren't in the game. His first post should have been enough (at least it was for me).

Title update... next game... whatever. I'm buying this thing and I am going to have a BLAST flying around the skies for a long, long time.

Anton, enjoy your weekend.

+1!
VERY well said "irrelevant"!!!

Having blackouts and redouts would be good as an option, but it is nowhere near a gamebreaker for me. I will buy and enjoy Birds of Prey on its release, and if we get blackouts and redouts later, then well and good.

Happy Guiltyspark? Anton has been so patient with your bullshit, now you've ruined it for the rest of us. Just don't buy the game and piss off.

I am not attacking anyone, just expresing my concerns about such important feature to me. I want this sim to become as realistically as possible and in my opinion like the 99% of sim fans is that blackouts have been a feature since the very first simulators.

But don´t be wrong, I am not offending anyone or crossing any line but just expressing my concerns. That´s all.
And I still think that this decision is a big mistake.

i dont get it. its gonna be the same game for everybody, so whats the problem? the plus points of this game should far outweigh any of the minor little trivialities such as this. my sofa cant simulate turbulence and buffeting, do i have to build a replica cockpit on hydraulics to enjoy playing a flight game? are Forza or GT any less enjoyable for being on the arcade side of realistic?

BoP will be a benchmark flight game for consoles, and the more people who buy it and ENJOY it, the better the chances are of future follow up releases with even MORE features, such as redouts/blackouts, more MP modes, larger aircraft rosters. and really, tbh, 5 mins playing the game you wont miss red/blackouts - you'll forget all about it cos the game will be sooo good or something else will crop up to complain about.

Im not THAT fussed about the black out/red outs being taken out the game (as in i can live without it) Im still more fussed about hearing German radio Chatter in Sim/realistic mode. I know Anton gave the reason that it was too quiet without more chatter (which is fair enough) but the easy and more realistic solution to this is to add more Allied chatter. Its little things like that that can take away the realism for me.

A neat feature would be to hear German radio stations once you enter enemy territory. Like hearing a song(that does not set the mood at all) while planes are burning and spiraling out of control all around you.

We realy need to give anton some respect, you are all acting like babies. Im 15 and seem to have a greater apreciation of what anton dose than most of you! Now I for one would have prefered Q&A to this obsessive whining.
Chris

Yep.

My two cents: a was and still am a plane geek, i'm also a hardcore gamer. I was always in between PCs and never got a chance to play the original IL-2.

What I did play was EAW, AOE, AOTP and even Jane's WWII Fighters way back when; and to be honest I didn't really give a crap about red/blackout back then - but I did appreciate the option of having it.

I am a console gamer now and I have never been more excited for a game in my life, and for flight fans who love gaming (many of whom now have the next-gen consoles) this is hands down the BEST thing to happen on a console, ever - and considering where the industry is going right now, this is the biggest splash for flight sims on the mainstream for a long time.

I guess what i'm saying is just support this game, put it all in perspective and be happy with what we get to play. The community is what is important; we need to focus on this, not the nitpickery - like Anton said, the hardcores are the community but we're not the majority. If concessions need to be made so I get to play a game this deep and advanced on my freaking Xbox, sign me up - i'll cut the code myself. :-P

Anyway, I remain unblownaway by this decision but would be happy with its addition in a SEQUEL. Depth is always good. Honestly though, if they put one new feature in a BoP 2, i'd be voting for a dynamic campaign anyway!

Buck it up, guys. You're entitled to your opinions, I just find then to be unfair and tactless now that Anton has put it in perspective.

Now i'm tired.

Bitching??!!!!, are you out of your mind!!??.

Can´t I disagree with the opinion of a poster???, I just said my personal opinion, never insulted anyone, never said this BOP is garbage, I just said that the lack of blackouts is a MISTAKE like many people who are in the simulation business for sure are gonna think.

If you don´t like hear critics close this forum.

Man I think you have to take things easy. Relax guy, seriously!. You are twisting things in a non sense.

Just because somebody posts saying a concern or an opinion thats not in favour of BOP, it doesn't mean they are having a go at someone. Infact Anton should take on board these criticisms ready for the sequel.

he should take on board these criticisms with a patch for the game....

I'm amazed no one has used the term passive aggressive yet...:rolleyes:

I'm out..
________
Vaporizer Review

I only read about three posts Anton replied too, but even without reading them, i do have to stand up for Anton. You cannot simulate something that cannot be simulated in more ways then one. Blackouts and/or redouts would, in the long run potentially ruin the game. And to be truly truly honest, if these so called ""HARDCORE"" simmers would want this, then tell them to get a pilots lisense, and try it themselves. I'm really sure most are in their late 20's or 30's and waist so much money on getting the right computer, or screen or updayes and mods where they can just get a lisence.

In other words, if you want a true flight experience, get a license, other words, the game should just be fun. I'll leave it at that, sorry for being a little rude but points have to get proven one way or another, even if this post didn't cut it...

no points were proven with this post. and you are the typical person who will run into an argument and support the developer regardless of the topic at hand.

Getting a pilots license will not recreate ww2 aerial combat in any form what so ever, so that little poor excuse of an argument flies out the window . Il2 sturmovik (the original) "simulated" black outs and red outs fine and dandy , just because it cant be modeled perfectly doesnt mean a feature should not be in a game because a certian focus group had downs syndrome and didnt understand it. Im all for opening up IL2 to new crowds , but dumbing down the game for the people that have supported the franchise by removing a feature like this is completely wrong and in no way do i think anton is making a correct descision .

And i find it suprising of 1c/505 games of all people to WANT to dumb down a game in the first place

Ok, first things first, nothing, and i mean nothing can perfictly recreate a battle. Second, their not dumbing down on the game,

OK Guilty, you've just made a massively discriminatory remark against a large number of vulnerable members of society, who achieve, amongst other things, full triathlon finishes, karate blackbelts and pilot licences. Their issues are absolutlely no fault or choice of their own...unlike many idiots in society who spread hate and ignorance...

I know you are passionate about this game, but please choose your insults a little more carefully in future if you wish to maintain a basic level of respect for your posts...freedom of speech can be a rope to hang ourselves with...

peace
________
MAGIC FLIGHT LAUNCH BOX

if there was no hate and ignorance the social gap would only widen between normal functioning human beings and the retarded. Keep an open mind and dont take offense to things on the internet no matter how "wrong" it may appear.

as blatant a troll as you are ever likely to see:rolleyes:
________
HERBALAIRE

Only one thing. Post this thread on lets say SIMHQ IL2 forums and tell them that blackouts will not be included. SIMHQ has a very well known and busy forum with thousands of visitors every day. There you could have a better sample of what people would really think.

To me as a first day IL2 fan, the lack of this feature is dumbing down the product and it is unbelievable base it on focus group. But at the same time I still think that BOP is gonna be a leap forward in console simulation.

Your all scared its not going to be IL-2 Sturmovik anymore! Well newsflash its not going to be, its IL-2 Sturmovik:Birds of prey a new game! And as Anton said the redouts/blackouts are in the game, there just turned off!


Post this thread on lets say SIMHQ IL2 forums and tell them that blackouts will not be included. SIMHQ has a very well known and busy forum with thousands of visitors every day. There you could have a better sample of what people would really think. I think you forgot that they are simulation nuts therefore a biased Group of people!
Chris

I think having Red and Black outs adds to the fun. It just adds depth to the game while playing.

stop pestering Anton just be grateful for the game if you want a real flying experience buy a microlite for about £3000 or even better get a replica made for u (this will cost alot)

My uncle here in the US owns a small glider company, and those are fun to fly around for a good two or more hours (even eight on a REALLY good day).

Well like Anton said, this wouldn't truely simulate human reactions to those conditions. In real life, you could pass out from extended lack of blood flow to the brain(meaning you can't pull g's forever), you would not be able to move your head freely around the cockpit, etc.

The bright side is that you have to remember that there still is 'head sway' when moving the plane around in cockpit view.

Like I said earlier, if the publisher was trying to get rid of simulation mode and flight stick support, be THANKFUL that Anton only has to get rid of black/red outs.

I definitely like having them, as it does add something to the gameplay, but I can understand their exclusion, and it certainly will have no bearing on my purchase of this game or not.

This is the saddest part of the story. They are dumbing BOP down because they are scared of losing buyers. I think this is the first simulator ever that doesn´t include blackouts in simulation mode.


I think you are now being biased too...
Read and learn.
http://www.simhq.com/_air12/air_408a.html
http://www.simhq.com/_air12/air_403a.html
http://www.simhq.com/_air9/air_287a.html

Gee there are some real psycho's on this forum.

Anton i would suggest you stop wasting time responding to them.

Riiiiight, because obviously is preferable to sell 100 copies to 100 obsessive ubernerds than 1,000,000 copies to the general gaming public. :rolleyes:

Some people still can't see what's staring them in the face.

Flight simulators are NOT SEXY anymore. The audience needs to be rebuilt through the console market, because that's where the gaming world is at.

Boo-hoo, a couple concessions have been made. Those noobs some peeps have been harping about are what stands between this game's success or failure financially.

Now this fact has clearly been the toughest job facing Gaijin; they want to please everybody and are doing their best; they're also trying to build something with this game: a new community of pilots.

If BoP becomes flight's console answer to Gran Turismo we can all rejoice and nitpick the shit out of a sequel - but right now dollars are on the line and its about an unseen niche on consoles trying to find an identity with the FPS set.

I hope to hell it works out, and what we're all buying in September oughta be the best flight game an Xbox or PS owner could ever hope for.

Anyway,....... hey Tomo wanna grab a beer?
Some people in here are scaring me too.

Seriously.


I am just happy to get this much on the console. I stopped trying to keep up with PC upgrading years ago, and this is one genre I have missed.

Hopefully this title will pave the way to even more sim titles making it to consoles, though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Look at car racing. Despite the strides GT and Forza have made in bringing sim to consoles, the truest racing sims are still very much PC titles, and I am sure that will stay the case for any other form of sim.

As much as I am sure they love the games they make... In the end they have to actually sell them, and consoles are an area, where in order to sell, you have to strike a balance. If all you want is full on sim, then the PC will be there waiting for you.




.

I have just called the moderator for your post. I am not gonna tolerate your insults just because I have a different opinion with all of you.
I have never insulted anyone, I just said what I think is my sense on this topic, if you disagree with what I said, ok different points of view are great to find a solution. But never ever insult me that way.

But don´t worry This is the last time I complain about something.

Um, I think he was talking about someone else.


@versapak - good post.

lol - I'm a little surprised at how seriously everyone is taking this. Anton, by the sound of it you're doing a _brilliant_ job of managing expectations for the game, which I'm looking forward to more than any game this year (and while I love my sims, I was/am also pumped for Killzone/Uncharted/inFamous/MW2 - IL2:BoP has these in it's wake though :cool:).

I also voted that I'd prefer redouts and blackouts in the game, as they do help keep the actual maneouvres possible more realistic. BUT, as Anton has well described, I'd be very surprised if the console crowd is ready for it - especially in a game that I'm sure all of us are hoping will sell well. As far as I know, Energy Airforce, for the PS2 is the only console game I'm aware of that had redouts and blackouts, and it was no-where near popular (or realistic) enough to have prepared the Blazing Angels and Ace Combat crowd for a 'real' sim. What BoP will do (hopefully) is lay the groundwork for many more sim-style flyers on consoles, and if it has to make a few concessions to do this well and good. BoP looks like it will be a _really_ good game, and takes flight games further than they've ever been on console before.

Of course, if it was possible to have a 'hardcore' mode added through DLC, with blackouts/redouts and whatnot else, I wouldn't complain, and would get right into it - but I think that BoP will be a great game without it, and will still be plenty satisfying to the sim crowd (particularly the sim crowd that have lapsed due to the expensive nature of maintaining a PC set-up, who are likely to be a bit more relaxed about these things - and there's a _lot_ of them out there :)). Bring BoP on as it is I say, and then it's up to gamers like us on these forums to make it successful, and then there'll be sequels with more hardcore options. I pre-ordered my copy last week, and am counting down the days :).

+1

Hmm please also ask the moderator to add "unhealthy levels of paranoia" to my original post. :-P

don't get mad, get even...and get used to bizarre reactions on public forums...

not taking sides just sayin...:cool:


ps as an aside the more I read up the less serious the effects of red/blackouts were in WWII combat- apart from dive bombing-never realised the Stuka had an automatic pullout system (sounds really handy on a Friday night)
________
BUY CANNABIS SEEDS

Really, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Anton has said he will see about including blackouts/redouts in a future patch, so there isn't any reason to argue about this subject. Also, given the time frame and the way the game is gold, it is quite possible such a patch could be released at launch.

All other sims have blackouts/redouts including the original IL2 and it was never an issue with anyone, it was a 6G blackout, not one person ever had a problem with it. Not having it means this is not a simulation by any stretch of the imagination. Being able to blackout through high G manouvers is probably one of the core elements of a flight simulation where no G suits are factored into it. Nearly every half decent book written by a WW2 pilot has paragraphs on blacking out and its affect on combat.

This is a massive disappointment as I was hoping consoles would finally get a simulator. Thankfully Storm of War:BoB will be out this year also.

+1 All this means is you'll see people online doing completely impossible manouvers. Now i bet they announce that critical speed for airframes isn't modelled either...

lol

I JUST WANT THIS GAME SO DAMN MUCH!!! I FEEL LIKE A CRACK ADDICT OR SOMETHING!!! COME TO ME!!!!

*Straightens self up*

I just really really really really really want this game to come out already. The wait is KILLING me.

Nicely put

That isnt a little detail. that is a major effect of pulling high Gs. a little detail is the gauges arent in the right place, or the trees look too green. Its not a flight simulator if it isnt simulating flight, and if you dont black out when u pull major G's it isnt a flight simulator... its.. Blazing Angles or battlestations pacific or something

A flight simulator does NOT require Blackouts/Redouts. yes it may provide an extra added reality to the game but is not in the slightest necessary.

So please dont say this game is Blazing angels or battlestations pacific, because they just dont fall into the same category.

You could use the argument that a game can't be a flight sim without blackouts/redouts to say that a game can't be a flight sim without players having to go through twenty or so steps to start the engine, because if you are missing either you aren't completely simulating flight.

I'll put it this way. Its the first game of its kind on consoles, it won't be perfect but from what we seen, it will be close. So, for the sake of the game, stop getting picky.

Absolutely. Which brings us to the point that....it's impossible to simulate flight.

People need to be thankful that we are getting BoP at all. :cool:

Not quite :mrgreen: The flight simulator/cockpit setups used to simulate flight for real pilots come incredibly close to the real thing.

You are right though, we should be glad we are getting an Il2 game on consoles, let alone one which stays so close to the realism of the PC games. For myself, I finally get to play Il2 with all my Xbox Live buddies, and it looks like this will be the best game in the series so far. Mind you, Storm of War is going to annihilate this game, but that is something for the future :cool:

HERE YA GO! I GOT REDOUT, BLACKOUT, BLUEOUT AND PURPLEOUT!:-)

http://www.hypebeast.com/image/2008/...nglasses-1.jpg

is ww3 going to break out? on 1 side Anton and every1 who says live with it and on the other people who desperately want blackouts

hahah


You are on a roll today. :)

Steiner, you're on a roll today. LOL.

I'm feelin' good, I got rageing endorfens 'cause tomorrow the demo comes out.
I feel so good that I think I'll go mow the lawn.:cool:

tomorrow? time goes quickly

I'm already. Got my pilot goggles and scarf ready, the rest of the outfit will come later :P Jk

Have any of you seen the video's for the game on IGN.com? Damn those videos just make me want it more. Also, it has a video of a guy terribly struggling in the realism mode. Check them out if you haven't. :D

You reminded me of that commercial where that pilot mows his lawn in his flight suit, helmet, and everything LoL.

I think you could totally rig up a flight stick to a riding mower. LOL.

Lmao! Never really thought about that since the throttle could also controlled the same way too LOL.

here here

Red outs and black outs? Sure they would be nice but they're far from a deal breaker for me. No there's something else that just might though but first a little backround if you will let me indulge.

I've been playing the IL-2 series of games since Pacific Fighters came out. So not forever but almost. ;) Simply put, it's my favorite pc flight sim I've played and I still do to this day. However as you might have gathered with me posting here, I also love to play games on consoles too. So when one of my fave pc series makes a move to the console I get quite anxious. Witness Race Pro just a few months ago. Utter failure IMO. BoP though, after playing demo, is obviously on much firmer ground. It feels like IL-2, yay! It looks and sounds great too. The multiplayer will be the true test of course.

So here's the rub and it may just be me because I didn't see much mention of it elsewhere on this forum (could be I just didn't dig deep enough)... why didn't you include a custom button layout option? I'm not a programmer but it seems like such an obvious thing to do. Personally I have a real problem with having the Throttle, Rudder & Head-cam all on the same stick. I might be able to walk, chew gum & pat my belly at the same time but looking around at low altitude w/o screwing up your throttle position or rudder is nigh impossible for me. :(

I think it's great that you made sure to support flight sticks with your game but the appeal of console gaming to me is being able to plop down on the couch, hit a button and be off and running with my controller in hand. I already have an X52 for the pc and I really don't want to have to by another one for the 360. I only have so much space & $$$. ;)

Believe me it's not just you guys, there's plenty of other console flyers that have the same issues it's just that because I love your past games so much that this is a dissapointment for me. I'm wondering if you tried any other flying games on the 360 when coming up with your control layout? It's very similar to the Battlestaions' games (which I also love but for the ships not the planes). If it had to be a fixed layout then Over-G's wins hands down. Lt stick for pitch & roll, Rt stick for head-cam, Triggers for rudder control & Shoulder buttons for throttle control. To me that just makes sense, no?

Anyway, I'll almost certainly get the game when it's released (any chance of a multiplayer demo???) and deal with the control scheme best I can but just wanted to hopefully have someone at 1C to hear my piece. Thank's for your time. :)