It's become dominated by people who purchased the game but dislike the fact that the game is not entirely fit for purpose, after 19 months of broken promises & very poor communication the customers are voicing their opinions, after all Luthier once stated that he thrives on criticism, well if that is still true then this is the place for him.

No, but when the opinion becomes that the poster has given up on the game and is hostile to it's developers, then it is time to move on. Some of these people are so obsessed with this forum and their antagonism towards the developers that it has become kind of a strange pathology. This is not helpful to anyone.

[QUOTE=Mysticpuma;464217]I think it's also worthwhile adding that in this thread:

"http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34369"

the first post by BlackSix reads:
"Attention! Please ask questions for Luthier in this thread. He will try to answer them tonight."

This followed Luthier saying here:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...63&postcount=1

"I'll be back at the end of the day to answer your questions".

Falstaff "I meant to post this earlier....it is silly to scape-goat Luthier or make him the poster-boy".

I'm just pointing out he was the one who came forward and offered to answer the questions, so he is the point of contact.

Let's also remember BlackSix saying that the answers weren't coming last-week as it was a Saturday and they don't work Saturday's!

So regarding my original post. I work most of the week, but I do visit the forums regularly. I make time to post (like now). It's a few minutes...that's all.

If they had spent a few minutes each week over the last-year telling us that the issues raised, the bugs reported, the suggestions given were actually of use and interest to them AND ACTED ON THEM, the software would be in a far better state than it is now, it would represent the input and knowledge of a simming community that really does know what it's on about and it would have held more authority if they had actively responded to the BETA TESTERS input as this is what we were told we were????

Remember everyone saying "IT'S A BETA", well after all the bugs that the players found and posted, the issues they raised, the questions they asked....we find out that the bugtracker isn't even read by the Developer's?

What's the point of releasing Beta Patches and we then get told we are Beta testing....only to not actually bother listening to the reports on the testing itself?

It's this type of 'support' that just makes me think that we are currently being strung along until the 'NEW' BoM comes out. I look forward to hearing the words "Place-holders" and "not final graphics/FM/DM/Weather/Features" being used until at least a year after it's release.....and then there'll be a sequel that will fix that too!

So I ask again. To rebuild some trust and faith in those who actually do care about this software (CloD not BoM for now), please answer some the questions you asked for and get one of your software developers to actually look at the Bug tracker and see what the main issues really are.

How the hell can you expect to fix the software when you aren't even looking at the issues and listening to your beta (patch) testers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus1
Bingo.

This forum, a 'company forum,' has become dominated by people who obviously dislike the game, have no faith in it's future/the future of the series and harangue the developers whenever they make an appearance. Why this is allowed to continue by the moderators is a mystery to me.


Okay, so we are not entitled to an opinion.

Please let me find my Rose tinted glasses!

The whole point here is that there is nowhere else to voice our opinions. There are problems. Are they unique? How do I find out? I ask the other members on these forums.

I then hope the developer's respond (the don't).

If it's an issue, I raise a bug report.

"has become dominated by people who obviously dislike the game, have no faith in it's future/the future of the series and harangue the developers whenever they make an appearance"

Because if they don't listen how the hell can we get the software working properly?

The problem is "the don't listen". If they did why would we (after 18-months) be told that they don't even read the bug tracker? That's because "they don't listen".

Why release a beta patch? Beta patches are for beta testing, we give Beta reports. They don't read the Bug tracker and they don't read the threads where bugs are reported?

What's the point in this amount of feedback and testing;

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33610

B6 wrote "The main goal of this version of the patch is, once again, to locate and fix any remaining crash bugs. Please continue sending in your logs and crash dumps to ishevchenko@1cpublishing.eu

Please enable logging in your conf.ini (Log=1). If the game crashes, send us the log file it creates in your [My Documents]\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover folder, and any .dmp files created in a cppdump folder under the main game installation."

when the only people who are going to make an effort are those affected by it?

If you are going to release a Beta patch at-least listen to the replies and responses to issues raised?

But they already said they are not even reading them.

So the only reason there are "whiners" here is because they cause people to whine! If they responded, regularly spoke with the community...LISTENED to the community, CloD would be vastly superior to what it is today.

MP


An additional note:

However I should have added that if Luthier wishes to spend some time actually answering the questions HE requested, I do look forward to hearing how CloD will be fixed/patched and how they will actively look at fixing the Bugs detected in the BETA release before the very final Retail version.

So Beta testers prepare to post your findings at the link Luthier will promise to have read by those looking to make a working retail patch.

Link please for that promise of reading should be a priority and a promise.

I really don't want to see another post from Luthier asking what are the issues we have had? Isn't that what everyone has been posting on these forums!

PLEASE READ THE RESULTS OF TESTING LUTHIER or get someone to do it!

MP

The sad thing is even IF/When Clod is patched it may still not work but you know that's it then [unless you buy BOM of course ].
This is the official IC forum and they can't even be bothered to come on here and tell the truth,i suspect even the moderators are feeling the same sense of being left in limbo.
I would guess that someone could read Luthier the questions out and the answers dictated back in a short time ready to be posted on here,where there's a will there's a way.
Hey it's Friday tomorrow maybe just maybe ;)

I have very little faith in truth, after the 50% performance increase patch actually dercreased my fps and dumbed down the graphics and removed clouds I think that if they fix just one bug without breaking anything else it will be considered a great result by the dev's.

@Mysticpuma: please put the quotes into proper qoute tags otherwise it is really hard to read. Thanks :)

I've often wondered what would possess a software developer to predict a "no less than 50% increase" in performance, before they had even begun working on the optimisations. It was almost child-like in its naivety.

That seems like a wilful distortion of what is happening here - frankly I don't know how anyone can still be refusing to face reality over what has happened here.

Luthier made a statement that he would answer questions.

I have no problem whatsoever with the fact that he is busy and has other important tasks. The issue for me is NOT that we haven't received the answers. The issue is that he/they didn't even have the common courtesy to take 30 seconds to post that the answers would be delayed (though actually now I suspect that we will not get answers to the questions).

It has not become dominated by "people who dislike the game". Many of us here have been wildly excited about this game and have looked forward to it for years. The reason many people are less than happy is that the game was released in such an unfinished state, that the rate of progress has been impossibly slow, that the communication has been poor, that promises and expectations have not been met.

The reaction of the fans and customers on this forum is completely understandable given all of the above. Many people feel let down and disappointed. Many of us have given the devs every opportunity and have turned a blind eye to repeated disappointment. We want to see progress. We want this game to succeed. We want to be able to enjoy the sim we have looked forward to for years.

But the recent fiasco over Luthier's questions has been so needlessly antagonistic to the fans here and could so easily have been remedied with a simple post. If I had been treated with such lack of care and respect by any friend or by any other business I would feel let down and angry. I see no reason why I should treat Luthier or the devs differently in this case.

Some people suggest that those of us who are unhappy should just go away. Given the disappointing reality of the COD situation - acknowledged even by Luthier - it is more surprising that there are people here who refuse to face the reality, than that many of us feel compelled to speak our mind honestly and sometimes bluntly.

As one of the original 'true believers' in this game it has taken a long time for me to feel so disillusioned, angry and let down. The reasons for this are completely due to the actions of Luthier and the devs. Repeated faith, belief and patience has been proved to be misplaced - solely by their actions and their actions alone. Many of the people who I now find myself categorised with as a 'whinger' or malcontent are people I have argued with or dismissed in the past. That their opinions have been proved right over time is not at all the outcome I would have preferred, but my eyes are open enough to see that that is the case and I am honest enough to admit it.

I want questions answered as much as anyone else, but that certainly isn't going to save the development. Concentrating on fixing the game engine certainly will. There won't be any positive answers to our questions, or any type of knowledgeable answer until they know what they have when its done. They ventured guess early in the development that obviously didn't turn out, and are understandably quite now, when guesses won't cut it. If they fix the game engine most of this negative cr#p will be forgotten, if they don't, it won't matter. Staying quite now is the best course of action, it will give fodder for the negative types, but its still the right thing to do.

Reading all this, I was thinking about making myself another home brew C++ game called "answer the questions":grin:. Here's a little sample:

/************************************************
Player 1

MadBlaster, try to answer these questions really fast and win!

1) Was epilipy filter a fraud?
Answer: Yes!
Time to answer this question : .1 seconds

2) Was clod a hunk of junk?
Answer: No doubt about it!
Time to answer this question: .4 seconds

3) Do you think bom will be better than clod?
Answer: Wishful thinking. They call it vaporware!
Time to answer this question : .6 seconds

Player 1 Total Score: 1.1 seconds
That was an excellent score, MadBlaster!
Winning!!!:!::!::!:

Player 2

Luthier, try to answer these questions really fast and win!

1) Was epilipy filter a fraud?
Answer: What? (shakes head) Oh no, no, no! We really had to do that because we didn't want anyone to become injured playing our wonderful simulation of the Battle of Britian. We really weren't trying to mask our fails in programming this wonderful ww2 simulation. It was all on the “up and up” to help those less fortunate that have this terrible spastic affliction, because we really care about those guys and gals (hic) and their happiness is more important than success of our sim that we worked many, many, many years on. Too bad we had to fire some of those guys. But dem's da breaks!
Time to answer this question : 1 hour and first bottle of vodka.

2) Was clod a hunk of junk?
Answer: No, no, no... no doooubt about it!
Time to answer this question: Sometime into the second bottle, half empty with some backwash, bits of burrito floating on top.

3) Do you think bom will be better than clod?
Answer: Uh, wake me up when it's over. B6, where’s my pillow??? Too late. Thump! (falls on floor, foaming vomit trailing side of mouth, big gash on side of head that gets infected with white pus a few days later.)
Time to answer this question: Error!..Error!..Error!..Error!...

Player 2 Total Score: Disqualified
That was a not so excellent score, Luthier!
Winning??? Not so much.:(:(:(

/*************************************************


It’s just an example. When or if I get it finished, I’ll make an “announcement”. Hum dee dum...:-P:-P:-P