HEY 6DOF is a cheat. there your argument doesn't hold water...

Go visit ARMA site see what has happened there. Go review what happened to red baron when everyone and their brother had there own canned FM, Go look the mess CFS is in, Go look BOB WOV debacle.

If you are using mod not licensed by developer your cheater. so my 10 to 1 hold true, because there probably only 1 out of 10 not using 6DOF!. You are using tool to gain an advantage or to modify your game differently from the unmodded game you a cheat.

Truth hurts Urufu cause your comments It's easy to say you a cheat as well. Oh wait you need chart.... here ya go.

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Ok, so everybody is a cheat, I'm a cheat he's a cheat everyone who can cheat will automatically cheat because cheating is fun, come cheat with us, we love being cheater, I love being called a cheater!!!!! /sarcasm

Think what you want about the damn hack but if any one of you were here and called me a cheater to my face you'd live to regret it! Just because I'm not on the high horse you are and like to fly B17's does not mean that I don't have integrety and know better than to cheat! You people sound like f$#@ng McCarthy, everones a comunist, they must be rooted out, the modders are raping our women and killing our children! Ever hear of the print-scren cheat? Thats been out there, does that mean all the respected members of the community that had keyboards with that button or had a copy of Fraps was a f@$ing cheat?! Say modders are breaking the EULA, say we ar killing the game, say we have insulted oleg, but DO NOT accuse people of cheating just because you disagree with the modding!

The User recognises that all of the rights associated with the Multimedia Product and its components (in particular the titles, computer codes, themes, characters, character names, plots, stories, dialogues, places, concepts, images, photographs, animation, videos, music and text contained in the Multimedia Product), as well as the rights relating to the trademark, royalties and copyrights, are the property of Ubi Soft and are protected by French regulations or other Laws, Treaties and international agreements concerning intellectual property.

It is not permitted:
- To make copies of the Multimedia Product,
- To operate the Multimedia Product commercially,
- To use it contrary to morality or the laws in force,
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,
- To transmit the Multimedia Product via a telephone network or any other electronic means, except during multi-player games on authorised networks,
- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios,
- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.




So mission makers, skinners, movie makers, Hyperlobby and the people that play there are all breaking the EULA. So thats one arguement that wont stand up to the EULA battle.

i´ve been following this thread a while and i cant help to add my 2 cents.

anyone who uses hacks (mods) in il2 - online games is a potential cheater!!

The questionable thrill from a sometimes better but generally worse sound is really not worth it.

Most of the online pilots are not superpilots, like stalkervision according to one of his last posts.

To them ( the majority ) it really makes a difference if their regular flying skill is not enough for a worse pilot with a hacked fm.

to use these hacks in offline gaming, who cares?, except the developer, could one think.

BUT: if there are offline hacks they can and will be used online.

What i really don´t understand is why some people are getting a high by destroying something good like the IL2- Online Community.

I mean: that is so really short sighted if not really, really stupid, or just sick.

i really hope that a way is found to stop the use of these hacks in online - games.

just my 2 cents

robtek

Many of these on-line guys are really paranoid in the extream. :shock: :)

I have yet to see anyone show me where a hack was used ever to cheat in on-line play. EVER!

I guess even the possible potential of that thing happening drives these guys crazy! Far more then a mod ever would. People we are talking about a game here for christ hanging on the cross sakes! :lol:

Gozar has the right idea here. Listen to him everyone. Not everyone is out to get you btw.. :)

I won't even mention FM, weapon or DM cheats. There are, however, smaller things. One for instance, is removing the bar in the 190. While this may be a historically correct thing to do, you just gave yourself an advantage that no one else will have unless they DL that hack. Same goes for 6 DOF. Thats the problem and you don't even recognize it.

I can live with nice sounds and even the AI aircraft being flyable with the original FM, even though it never should've been touched. When you start removing parts and making other modifications that give YOU the advantage, thats no better than modding the FM.

Obviously there are strong feelings raised by creation of new Mods for IL2, and the tiny but vociferous minority of online gamers feel the need to passionately support their belief in the primacy of an unmodified stock version of the game…Unfortunately though, they also feel the need to impose that belief on the large numbers of people that want to utilise the new additions to the game…as for them its not enough that they wish to remain with stock IL2 installations…they feel the need to ensure everybody else only utilises a stock IL2 installation for online compatibility.
Now because they feel so passionately about it, numerous emotive accusations are thrown into the discussion…its illegal to use the Mods, its immoral to use the Mods, Using the Mods is an insult to Oleg, Mod users are cheaters, development of Mods destroys a flight sim etc etc…
Now in the interest of balance I’d like to add my counter-arguments to the mix…

Its Illegal

This argument centres upon the fact that modifying the software is a breach of the EULA – notwithstanding the fact that the EULA is a commercial document intended to protect software publishers from financial loss through the reproduction and modification of their software in a commercial marketplace, ignoring the fact that there has never been a single instance of a software publisher taking a single user to court for modifying software they have purchased legitimately, not withstanding the fact that whole communities have grown up dedicated to modifying software for third party use…But it’s a big stick to beat the modding community with because then we can be accused of being Criminals!

Well for starters there is a big question mark over whether any EULA is enforceable in law…it breaches standard contract law in that you are not made aware of the conditions of purchase until after you have purchased the software – and typically you will have no re-dress because most computer games retailers will not refund money on a purchased product once it has been opened (to prevent piracy). Meaning that you the purchaser were coerced into agreeing to the EULA.
Secondly the EULA refers to Which means that movie makers, mission builders, skinners etc etc are all in breach of the EULA, something that I think we’ll all agree is ridiculous – no-one is going to be considered as breaching the law by creating a third party campaign and distributing it nor releasing a populated map template and releasing it…so why would it be considered illegal to create a retextured map and release it for example? The EULA makes no reference to what is considered acceptable and not acceptable in this context…simply because it was never written with the intent of preventing third party modification of legally purchased software…it was written to prevent commercial abuse, piracy and plagiarism!
Besides UBI the software publisher has a very pro-modding attitude towards the games it publishes – look at the Mod sections and discussions that exist within the official communities for Sims like LOMAC and Silent Hunter III & IV. If the publisher isn’t opposed to us modifying its software…then who else is there to tell us what we are doing is wrong?

Its Immoral

Ignoring the fact that its ridiculous to consider what I do with my copy of Il2 in the comfort of my own home a morality issue…I mean, if I kick my dog, hit my wife, steal my neighbours milk from his doorstep…that’s immoral, I really don’t consider installing an illuminated gun sight reticule a moral dilemma!
If modification of the software was considered immoral where was the hue and cry from the community when people were discussing the release of a no CD hack? Or ways of bypassing the securom copy protection on the initial Pe2 release? In fact people were tripping over themselves to find a way round these issues…So much for morality!

Its an Insult to Oleg

Well surely not as much as one as the times again and again he has been accused of Pro-German or Pro-Russian bias! Wasn’t that the reason he stopped visiting and posting at the Official UBI forums?

Mod users are cheaters

Well as far as I can see none of the Mods released so far are designed to create, uber planes, uber weapons and uber DMs, so I think there is far too much concern over this issue.
The Mods are intended for use by offliners anyway – and most of the major servers have put in place a check value to ensure that the servers cannot be joined by users of the Mod.
Besides Online cheating is an issue for online players…cheating and bad sportsmanship has existed in many forms for a long time…Flaps on a Slider, Prnt Scrn, Disconnecting, Team Killing, Shoulder Shooting, Kill Stealing etc etc…Its not something Offline players should concern themselves with…Its something for the Online community to police themselves with strong server rules and admin.
Nothing Offline players do or don’t do is going to affect what happens in the major hyperlobby servers is it?
Besides, I cannot understand why anyone would want to make the game easier for themselves anyway…surely the fun comes from the challenge! (In fact I’d love to see the Mod making planes more difficult to handle – giving more realistic quantities of Torque and making undercarriages more fragile for example) But then I’m interested in the whole combat flight simulation experience – dogfighting and air to air kills are only a small part of it for me personally – which is why I welcome something that increases immersion like the Sound Mod.


Development of Mods destroys a flight sim

The truth is, nearly all popular Flight Simulators have been heavily modified by third part communities and in every instance it has improved the game, extended its usable life and created a great deal of interest and enthusiasm amongst the users…Look at the evidence
Falcon 4 – heavily modded and yet a game that was released in 1999 is still going strong today, EAW modded to within an inch of its life and then some…and yet was by far the most popular World War 2 flight sim prior to the release of IL2, Janes F/A18 – the demise of Janes meant the game was dropped almost straight after release…but hard work by a dedicated community (Team Super Hornet) has created a game far beyond what was initially released…New theatres, new graphics, Track IR functionality, new cockpits etc etc. LOMAC – look at some of the fantastic mods that are being released for that game at the moment. Enemy Engaged! Probably the most dedicated modding community of all – have created a Sim that is so good that the modded EECH is far better than the newly published EECH2! So if none of these flight simulators have been destroyed by user mods…then why should IL2 be?

Jason you are the most level headed rational person I have ever had the pleasure of reading a post from. You make up for the long list of extreamest and selfish on-liners that believe Il-2 is their own personal property and are willing to say anything and do anything to keep it that way. Keep up all the good work buddy! 8) Stalker

You raise some interesting points in your post, and I don't have the time to comment on all of them. However, I don't agree with your opinion that because the EULA makes no reference to which files can be modded, then *all* the files can be modded.

It's a question of acquiesecnce. The EULA prevents the purchaser from modding files, but because certain files (skins, speech, missions) etc. are not encrypted, and becuse no-one has tried to prevent people from creating missions, skins etc in the 6 or so years that IL2 has been out, then it can be argued that the owner, has effectively acquiesced to us making thses modifications.

The .SFS files on the other hand are encrypted. That is a clear statement of intent from the owner that they do not wish anyone to hack these files, and to do so would be a breach of the EULA.

As a strictly offliner, the issue doesn't really affect me, but for what it's worth I chose not to install any of the mods.

As to the other points, I'll leave it to other people to comment.

Encrypted... :D The "encription" everyone always raves about and points to as some kind of proof oleg never wanted the game tampered with turns out was about as secure as a walmart suitcase lock... :lol: