Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

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Quote:

Re your comment on the line I posted The problem here is that you do not know the details behind the paper and your reply And nobody else does either.....including you
You are absolutely correct, no one does know the details. No one knows which squadrons, which aircraft, which stations, how it was to be distributed and so on were for the pre war paper. The difference is that I do not pretend to know.
However I do know that this idea of 16 + 2 bomber units wsan't mentioned at all in the Oil Committee meetings who would have been instrumental in the distribution of the fuel to the 16 fighter squadrons whatever those squadrons might be, wherever they may be based.

16 Fighter Squadrons + 2 Bomber units = THE SELECTED UNITS

The Oil Committee used very plain language.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpp (Post 400673)

You cannot look at fuel stocks "consumed". I explained that already. It has nothing to do with "peacetime". It has to do with the science of fuels and the shelf life of the mixed stock and how it is accounted for.

You guys keep chewing on the same information. Problem is none of the information is complete or changes what Morgan and Shacklady put out. In fact, it only supports what they wrote but we don't have all the documents that they obviously referenced.

16 squadrons sometime in September 1940 were converted to the fuel. That would require their operating bases as well as their satellite fields to be supplied. In other words, anyplace they might have to land would need a source of fuel.

Did they just suddenly poof into existence 16 squadrons converted? Maybe....maybe not. If they gradually phased in those 16 squadrons as resources became available, then looking at squadron logs is not going to tell you much.

FC maintained a high rate of rotation to keep its fighter pilots as rested as possible. So looking at squadron logs is not going to be much help again.

Are you really that clueless Eugene?

S:TH pg 55

"A meeting was held in the AMDP's room on 16 March 1939......... The decision taken was initial delivery to 16 fighter and 2 bomber squadrons by September 1940."

AMDP - Air Member for Development & Production

But then the war heated up and Barbi and Eugene expect this 16+2 to be kept. :rolleyes:

As can be seen, the 16+2 went bye-bye.
At the least 22 squadrons converted to 100 fuel by the end of June:

By Month

32 Squadron pre BoB H
92 (East India) Squadron pre BoB S
111 Squadron pre BoB H
151 Squadron Feb 1940 H
602 (City of Glasgow) Squadron pre BoB S
609 (West Riding) Squadron pre BoB S

1 (Cawnpore) Squadron May 1940 H
3 Squadron May 1940 H
17 Squadron May 1940 H
19 Squadron May 1940 S
54 Squadron May 1940 S
74 Squadron May 1940 S
56 (Punjab) Squadron May 1940 H
73 Squadron May 1940 H
79 (Madras Presidency) Squadron May 1940 H
85 Squadron May 1940 H
87 (United Provinces) Squadron May 1940 H
N229 Squadron May 1940 H

N43 (China-British) Squadron June 1940 H
N41 Squadron June 1940 S
610 (County of Chester) Squadron June 1940 S
611 (West Lancashire) Squadron June 1940 S

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper (Post 400682)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v4pk...e_gdata_playerHmmm. Missing documents? Can't understand why....had my best man on it....

Yep, that really sums up what's happening here. Now...I just hit the trusty "ignore - okay" button...oh look, no Crumpp! 8-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpp (Post 400686)

16 Fighter Squadrons + 2 Bomber units = THE SELECTED UNITS

The Oil Committee used very plain language.

But we have reports from over 30 squadrons

Honestly. You actually believe that wartime fuel stocks sat around long enough to live past it's shelf life? During the BoB?

Quote:

ut we have reports from over 30 squadrons

Glider,

The RAF had a very vigorous rotation schedule. The fight was tough and very dangerous so Dowding very intelligently rotated his units out to rest/refit.

In some cases, the rotation was in as little as 10 days of fighting. So when you count a 30 day chunk of time, that can be up to three rotations!!

As I understand it, the rotation was based on combat strength of the unit and not a set schedule or time.

In one month, (08 August 1940 thru 08 September 1940) 16 squadrons from 11 Group were rotated out of the fight and replaced by fresh ones. That would show up over a month period as up to 32 squadrons using 100 Octane fuel.

So by that rational, basically your saying that 11 group used 100 octane......

Now which group bore the brunt of the fighting by far.......

;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumpp (Post 400910)

Which 16 squadrons out of 11 Group?

http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/biggin.gif
http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/croydon.gif
http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/debden.gif

more http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/0006.html

Quote:

Now which group bore the brunt of the fighting by far.......

Of course 11th Group and if you line things up, 16 squadrons is a very large portion of 11th Groups combat power.

We also don't know when in September or when other squadrons were approved.

It could have been a sloping curve of units being stood up on 100 grade when the strategic reserves were in place and the fuel distributed to the stations concerned.

So if we have 16 units on 01 September, we could have the entire RAF FC by 30 September!! Consequently, if we have 16 squadrons on 30 September, then that picture changes.

Facts are we don't know.