I urgently need one more question for the list!

BlackSix, how about this:

Will the next patch include FM changes? Fighters such as the spit 1a seem under modelled compared to the Hurricane rotol which seems historically close to correct. Bombers have bombsight and other bugs (e.g. at http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=29453).

Or if FMs have been addressed in an earlier question then perhaps:

Have you considered a formal bug tracking system that the community can get involved in? It is difficult to tell what bugs the devs are/are not aware of at the moment since the bug threads do not get feedback.

12-23-2011, Luthier: "...It remains the same. Sped up graphics, launcher errors, improved FM, etc, all of that is in progress as previously stated..."

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...9&postcount=89

Will speedtree 6.0 be implemented in to il2?

I'll take that question, thank you!
Errors FM - separate conversation, not for this format.

I already have a question:
To dev team regarding the SpeedTree technology. We all know the problems with them: shimmering, LOD changes and what not. I scoured thru SpeedTree forums and saw similar issues with trees and also solutions. Add that there are new versions of it etc. So my question is that has dev team worked with SpeedTree Inc and using newer version and tools? Can anything be done with trees?

Ок?

Yeah, that would be very useful.

Now this is the most important question of all. Please put that on #1 in the list. A read only "known bugs" list would be enough so we can see which bugs are already reported and worked on.

Excellent, thanks for the quick reply.

Great, thanks BlackSix.

The huge advantage of a bug tracking system is the dialogue. The priority of each error is not my decision, but it would help if I find a problem, then I can easily see that the problem is known to the developers, maybe they already dealt with it, or will deal with it (I should know, because Resources and materials collected aren't fast work, but i gladly send them any docs, if that really help). This forum capable only for limited use, otherwise there is no feedback, and so many offtopic, it is difficult to follow.

A current list of errors maybe similar in its effects, but there is no feedback either. I remember, formerly ran Insuber's list, the "Priority Bugs & Other issues need to be hurt look into", but it is no longer "sticky" (last update 4. Jun :rolleyes:).

And plans to make different octane fuels an option for the plane load out?

Ok, this is the final, 12th question.
On Friday, we try to publish the answers.

thanks B6

Yes, thanks B6. Looking forward to Friday!

Yeah, will be nice to see the I-16 damage model.

Still waiting for that Frederick to make an appearance ;)

Alexandr, in case Ilya asks further questions about this issue here are more details and links about the subject.
I hope Ilya can talk to or write a request to 1cpublishing.eu management to set up Redmine, Bugzilla or smth. else here.

Blacksix.....ask him is there a chance to recruit "open beta testers" out of community members from this forium? More testers more bugs noticed....khm

We prepare 5 screenshots with damage model)

Ок

Why, if we publish the beta patches of open access?

I see. But you need guys who will pre test those betas?

You, me, we are all beta testers.

hah but I meant they need core testers...lets say guys who will test beta and final patches in the stages of their production, before release on forums...or they have already few ppl for that...I mean for every patch, including betas they would need ppl who will pre test it...no?

Why Im telling this? Some of us have greater knwoledge of hardware, software optimisations and tunings. Some of us hav been beta testers in other (advanced) sims....we now how and what to test....

Which maps will we see in BoM?

The right question - "Which maps will we see in the sequel?"
This will be discussed after the announcement of the project.

As an old developer / development manager I really like this one, the big problem is to open the tap for a whole world of people that are not used to working with bug tracking software and the processes needed to get it working. If the users are not strict in reporting bugs according to rules regarding all the information needed to file a bug correctly, and themselves so a thorough search so they don't enter a bug that has already been reported, the testing team will have to put a full time employee just to reject all bugs that are not relevant...

I participate in the beta for MS Flight, and all hell has broken loose in their bug tracking site as the same bugs are reported 10-20 times, and the quality of the bug reports is completely out of bounds. One in ten include steps to reproduce the bug, and one in 20 contain complete system specifications...
There are really not that many bugs I can find in Flight, but hundreds of bugs are reported over and over again in the same sloppy manner when new users join the beta...

As MG has very limited resources I think the only way to do this would be by a community managed bug tracking site where community moderators do the initial verification of bugs before they are sent to the development team.

But I really like the idea! :-)

Mazex

Cool 5 I-16 and how many shots of the Fredrick :D

;)

The Russian aircraft in IL2 1946 fb were the exact same shade of green as the trees, making it nearly impossible to spot them over a forest, this was unrealistic.

How will "the sequel" differ?

Is it expected to appear rain and heavy clouds over Brittain?

Heh. So it ain't 'Battle for Moscow' after all! :grin:

Intriguing..........!

Leningrad would be oh so good. Or better yet, 'Winter War'............

I'd imagine community bugtracking even more complicated than for MSFlight as most likely it would have to be in Russian and English.

MAC

ATAG Dutch

I picked up the same vibe but didnt want to cause a stir.

S!

I really do not understand why it is so hard to create a bug report when you are given the instructions. Usually they are VERY clear and simple so even the most ADHD gimme now nerd can follow them ;) Or maybe my work in military has something to do with following orders and reading manuals ;)

We have people who not only cannot stay on topic in threads (a more or less free-form discussion platform), they actually enjoy derailing them, and you expect them to file bug reports according to strict specification? :-P

We do need a bug tracking system but if anyone is going to moderate that, it's going to be a paying job i think :grin:

Maybe the other way around would be a better idea...

How about making visible a bug-tracking system where the devs enter the bugs? This way the community would have a easy to search database of what has been reported already.

Now, I can understand the devs not wanting us to see what has been fixed, is pending or is being left behind so, a bug list with no "status" could do the trick (if is cleaned after each release.)

Something better than the current state of affairs is required. For intance, the bugged early HE-111 bomb drop - is that a known bug or not? I have absolutely no idea if the devs even know about it...

Exactly. I stopped reporting bugs because of this. This forum has about 5 threads with bugreports and no one has any idea if any of them are visited by the devs.

The devs do not have resources to moderate a bugtracker so it has to be a community effort if we want it. I think usual complainers will be the best moderators for the bugtracker. Critical mind is actually very valuable for this job.

Agreed...

I agree partly, but there's another issue here. Usually the ones who complain the most are the ones who tend to focus on their specific area of interest.

So, how are we going to ensure they are fair when prioritizing bugs? For example, fine tuning the FMs is probably a bigger job than getting rid of the various controls bugs (mostly affecting bombers). If the bugtracker moderators mostly care about graphics performance and fighters, will we have to wait until SLI and all fighter FMs are fixed to see a working gyrocompass in the Ju88?

So, to ensure impartiality, i think it would be best to divide the bug tracker into separate sections:
AI
FM
DM
Controls
etc

and then let the developers prioritize themselves among the stuff they see on the list.

Another thing i've seen is that usually the people who complain the loudest don't have the time or inclination to do some legwork, so i doubt many would volunteer to moderate a bug tracker.

I've seen countless such cases where they don't even want to follow existing workarounds to improve their gameplay experience, simply because "i shouldn't have to do this, it should just work on its own". To each his own and i'm not blaming them, we all have real lives, work, families, etc and we don't all have the same amount of time to spend on this hobby.

All i'm saying is that people who don't display an inclination to offer something to the community by investing some of their personal time are a poor choice for managing such a resource.

Most game play fixes should apply to both sims using the same game, but I suppose some could be theater exclusive, but I can't think of any at the moment.

Systems like Bugzilla, Redmine and others have a voting system so everyone registered will be able to vote. Of cause developers will make their own decisions on priorities based on vote results.

As Luthier answered they have no resources to run a bugtracker but a community one would be useful to them I hope someone who has a server and knows anything about hosting can step in and set up such a system. I hope it can be some squad or community that is strong enough in CloD and has web resources and enough people to get it started. Any ideas?

PS. Sample of how Redmine is used https://dev-heaven.net/issues Votes on the right hand side.

You could suggest it at ATAG. They certainly have the server for it and may not mind hosting if someone (or two or three) volunteered.

Another question: Is the game's code so written to allow third-party content to be easily installed - either commercial or freeware. Are there plans for this in the future, what groundwork would need to be in place and how do you think it would effect the longevity of the series?

*Edited to make it clear that my question is about installation, not creation of third party content.

S!

I think that boils down to the SDK when released Feathered..We will see :)

Why not have a bug tracker on google pages? It'd be free and would allow issues to be up or down voted by the community, and would allow people to edit and expand the description of the issues.

Example http://code.google.com/p/dolphin-emu/issues/list

Isn't it for non-for-profit projects only? I was told so in another thread.

S!

And would devs have the resources to dedicate people for tracking it all is another question. It seems the team is more than occupied now with CoD and BoM + the patch etc.

Luthier gave indication that he likes the idea. I think it will save him time if he reads a bugtracker instead of browsing forum.

OK, snooped this answer by BlackSix on sukhoi.ru today answering if there eventually could be a patch tomorrow (?)

Google translate gibberish:
Patch on Friday there will be no update, we are preparing for a completely different subject, no less important and interesting.

Original:
Патча в пятницу не будет, апдейт мы готовим по совершенно другой тематике, не менее важной и интересной.

link: http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1788513

EDIT: Sounds interesting ;) No less important and interesting (than a patch or news about the patch)...

Could it be...

"There will be no Friday update."

Grammar devil´s creation.

Salutes.

Russian or Hungarian...same problem:razz:

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...4pkzJpVQbHFkig

Here are my translation results:

"There will not be a patch on Friday, we prepare for a update on quite different subjects, not less important and interesting."

What could be more important/interesting than a patch? Sounds promising...

I think he's referring to the "new video of an unexpected feature." I can't wait to see what it is!

SDK I would assume.

It is for open source projects only. http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/FAQ

There are free redmine and bugzilla hosts available (ad supported) but paid would likely be more reliable.

The update will be in the evening. Probably late in the evening.
Maybe we don't have time to do everything and move to the next week.
It was a very difficult week.

"move to the next week" i hope not :(

i will see the video footage of an unexpected new feature :)

"What could be more important/interesting than a patch?" - Not "than a patch" but "than an update on another matter asked by forum user". The user was asking about the patch AND about update about some particular thing he is interested in (FPS low above London).

It is important to translate a question as well to understand an answer often.

Blacksix, here is the video describing the bombardier's seat viewing problem. Just need to be able to move your head in limited x-axis and y-axis rather than fixed. At the moment you cannot see around obstacles in the pit.

This is annotated so please use desktop browser instead of mobile.

Edit: sorry, no translation for annotations on youtube I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwqqBXO1l9A

Postpone the update until Monday then right now and get home for a Friday beer instead if you are done before the evening is over.

If you just post that it's postponed here all the F5 jockeys can have their Friday beer too instead of waiting in vain ;)

Mazex

Luthier is giving you boys a difficult time, right ? :) I suggest to skip one week, maybe 2 ...

Shock Horror

We decided to split into two parts a surprise. So will update in a few minutes.

S!

Sounds good :)

F5 f5 f5 f5 f5 f5
;)

S!

Uther, tapping F5 is so yesterday, use a macro :D

Friday Update, February 10, 2012
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=29662

Interesting answers from Sukhoi (Feb 9th):

Question:
As for the I-16th. One feels that tried. But without the effects tesalyatsii and shader model 5.0 graphics visibility damages will not be up to date. Pay attention to the developers of this nuance. As many know, came out ATI cards 7970 and 7950. These cards with a maximum tesalyatsiey not cause the fall of fps-a - 0%. ATI right screen shows the type of land with a bird's-eye view of the old and the new chip. On the new 50% more detail. And NVIDIA will soon go GTX-series with the same capabilities. I am writing this to happen again the story of the WT.

BlackSix:
On the support of these technologies makes sense to think in 1.5-2 years, when they become truly massive (and thus really useful), we can not spend a lot of resources for 5-10% of the audience who have bought new cards this year. Simulation is not 3-D shooters and similar features will have a minimal effect in terms of marketing advantages over competitors. And the competition this year expected to be very serious, should go to three games on WWII aviation theme (WoWP, WoP, DCS: P-51), and will need to focus on other things entirely. First of all, it correction of fundamental errors WT, and then complete the team switching to a new project.


Question:
Alexander, if possible, please ask a programmer to cover at least two words of the cache value of shaders in the game, which is created in the documents of users. The question arose because of another new drum on repairing the launcher on missions. Does clearing the cache helps somehow, or is it only visible effect? And why, if the aid is no line in conf.ini ClearCache, with values ​​0 or 1, the first type of Elah?


BlackSix:
This cache are compiled shaders are recompiled when changing graphics settings and the release of new patches. When a new patch to clean the cache automatically, so the lines in the config file is not needed. If you change the settings, in principle, be clean, but it is not necessary. As for the "diamond" - the only option when such treatment would help - if you were following the old shaders, for example, the beta patch and for whatever reason, the game itself is not able to remove them, and there is a conflict that is the cure - just one time clean up this folder, regular cleaning, if not change graphics settings are not necessary - it will only slow the first start of the game, when the shader is just compiling.

Thanks Insuber!

I did not grasp that first item: There will be a patch on Friday or there will be no patch ???

Ahahahahahaha! You cheated!!!!! R.O.F.L. !!!!


~S~

There will not be a patch, nor will there be any information on it is my understanding. :(

Yes apologies, it was relevant to the last friday so I deleted it ... :-)

Apologies, this message was dated 9/02 i.e. before the last update, hence I deleted this portion of the post. Ignore it.

Cheers,
Insuber

Hope springs eternal!

So let me illustrate some aspects on software development and patching schedules uncertainity.

Pretty much all software on this scale are so complex piece of moving parts so guestimating probable release version date of next version is like saying we will go to the Mars but we are still working on the rockets.

So the moral of the story is, that demaning estimates of patch dates are inherently ridiculous and pointless. The patch will come the date it will be finalized, not a day sooner, nor later!

the way things look my guestamation is middle March for Beta patch.

OK OK we understand it perfectly, it's old news. Now, seriously ... when will the patch be released???? :-D

This is what luthier said about patch on sukhoi few days ago,
where the first line is about screenshots of village:

Someone asked (in panic :grin: :
" Oh! Very alarmed - until we solve :shock: That is, the solution is not found?"

Translation is from google.

hvala stari

So we can expect a beta but not today...

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...wu_BON61ttgC5w

hoping soon....

The patch shouldn't be so far away from our PC's. However, even if the beta will come out soon, we can expect a longer testing due to the huge amount of new code.

Cross fingers and best luck to Ilya and crew !!!!!!!! After 4.5 years of the banana forum life, I need a serious flight sim electroshock to come back to life! :-)

"Today the wait?"
"No, unless there is something incredible."

:confused:

This means that the output of the patch today - is an incredible event

Blacksix, you just said it will be today, you know that?

So is today going to be incredible B6?

;)

Blacksix, If the patch is looking quite close...a week or 2 maybe, can you tell us if the memleak crash has been fixed?

Do you know if FSAA has been added yet?

I did not understand your jokes in English, I find it hard to read the forum.

It's not my job, I don't know. Ilya might have something to tell you in Friday update or in the readme

A Wednesday, that would be amazing:)

So the patch will be on Friday...maybe....

Sounds like he is saying that the patch is more or less complete, unless some unexpected bug, Luthiers "last minute axe" is discovered. Is that right?

2 Weeks - be sure.

Now im searching for the "readme";)

Don't wory B6! Even for a native English speaker their joke is not funny. They just haven't got anything better to do with their time.

Keep up the good work and pass on our regards to the development team. We hope is all going well and are looking forward to reading future updates.


Thanks!

You might be a native English speaker but your also Australian and are still clearly butthurt over the ashes :P either that or you don't get the joke because it wasn't in fact meant to be one ;)

We werent joking mate. Relax. Just, hes english was hard to understand and what he typed looked like patch is ready.
Blacksix, thanks mate.

As we get closer and closer to a patch release, I'd like to maybe state the obvious which isn't so obvious:

The patch, when it is released, will be a BETA patch and as such there may still be problems.

Please please please keep that in mind when we get whatever it is we get for a patch. In my head I'm already seeing people complaining that "yeah, the graphics are faster, but the roundels flicker! You suck!"

Just say no to negativity. It helps no one. Say yes to constructive reporting. ('Roundels flickering on player flown Spitfire and Hurricane, but not on AI planes').

I think Luthier said that once they ran the patch with the last minute bug fixed they'd post the results and they anticipated doing that before this Friday. So, given what B6 has said that day may well be today.

Incredible.

"Graphics-wise, we’re dealing with a last-minute issue as we speak. We rather unexpectedly found a problem with our aircraft decals, i.e. the code that places crosses and roundels and chevrons etc on top of the aircraft paintscheme. The code is being rewritten, the work should be finished in about 2 days. Once it’s done we can take much more accurate benchmarks. We’ll post then when we have them."
Luthier, 17th Feb.

S!

Good news. And BETA = report bugs and quit whining :)

and until the patch is coming lets watch a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=vZ5sTmFFcHk#!