I don't know.

If you always pick the 109E-4 even when it's 20 Red v 40 Blue then that's your choice, I guess.

Salute

Please provide testing/videos which prove your claims.

In fact, the 109's previous to this series of patches had a huge performance advantage over the British planes, which was because the Spitfire and Hurricane were not achieving even 1/2 of their historical performance in the climb, and only 2/3's of their historical performance in top speed.

And to make matters worse in the previous patch, the Hurricanes were much too heavy, and the 109's could outturn them. Completely wrong. Even the German test reports, done by among others, Werner Molders, the leading Ace on the German side and the father of their tactical doctrine, on the 109's vs the Spitfire and Hurricane and Curtis H-75 were conclusive:

And this German test was against the Spitfire and Hurricane with two pitch props.

Prior to the patches, the situation was so poorly modelled in the game that even players who had poor skills, or no skills at all, could absolutely dominate in the 109's. It led to a lot of blue pilots getting bad habits, thinking they could turn and burn down on the deck, blow all their energy, and then if a Spitfire got behind them, to be able to simply pull up their nose and zoom away from any danger.

No longer. If you come over Britain, you will need to have an altitude advantage, and you will need to keep your speed up and use your climb advantage to maintain your height advantage.

This is absolutely historical. The 109's did not fly over Britain at low altitudes, they rarely came over at heights less than 20,000 up to 30,000. Only after the failure of the German day bombing campaign were the 109's assigned to the 'Tip and Run' fighter-bomber raids, those were based on surprise and evading the radar by flying low, but in fact, they suffered large casualties to the point the missions were discontinued.

Considering the fact most of the online server missions involve German bombers coming over at 15,000 ft plus, where both the Spitfire and Hurricane are both still crippled by the engine cutout bug, you should have zero difficulty in succeeding if you fly smart. On the other hand, if you drop down to the deck and wander around at low speed, you ARE going to be shot down. Quite deservedly too. :)

As it stands now, the Spitfires are still too slow in level speed, I am not making a huge fuss about this in the interests of balance, but they historically could achieve 315 mph on the deck, now they do approx. 300 mph.

The 109's are also too slow down low, (not sure about up high) and I personally would like to see them achieve 480 kph on the deck at 1.35 ata, which would put them on a par with the Spitfires for top speed.

They should not have their turn performance improved.

Wow, 7 pages! Like in the good old days.... ;)

I remember vanilla Il2 1946 maps with the Bf109E4 vs SpitVb. Great were those days and one of the best planes setups I remember. Was hard but I never had so much fun flying a 109. Maybe these days will return someday, but gues I have to wait for the Vb as adversary for a few more years. Until then I maybe learnt to fly CloD also... :-P

Just sort out the FM's please Devs on both sides....This is getting boring now

I certainly wont entertain whos got the biggest **** competiton and copy n paste loads of biased rubbish from whatever side

Bloomin kingergarten in here

You have a right to your opinion, as does the other guy who chooses to focus on mastering one aircraft type. The only "wrong" opinion is the one that belittles another's free choice.

The map on ATAG is huge, with many airfields on both sides to chose from. Forty Blues on one side vs 20 Reds on the other (or vice versa) shouldn't really matter. The action is really spread out. Too many Blues over Hawkinge? Take off from Rochester and intercept the Dorniers at 18 angels east of Calais. Odds are you won't see a single Blue fighter enroute -- although you will if you loiter amongst the AI Dorniers a bit too long.

The ATAG Server is not designed to be "fair". Nor are there any expectations that anyone fight "fair". The only thing expected is that there be no swearing, obscenities, or abuse of another player via chat or Teamspeak, and no deliberate friendly fire/fragging. Got ten 109's strafing Manston? Cool! Organize on Teamspeak to spawn together at Canterbury or Eastchurch and climb to 5 or 6 angels for some fun times at Manston. Maybe keep one or two parked at 12+ angels for the 109's that likewise stay high. Frequently there are more Reds than Blues. There is NO expectation that a player who prefers to fly his Hurricane must switch to a 109 or a Ju88 (or whatever). If he does, great. If he prefers to stick with his Hurri, fine. There is no pressure on one player to compromise his enjoyment of the game to satisfy another player's idea of what's "fair". We've had players complain that they dropped their wheels, but they still got shot down. "Unfair!" Well, we suggested to them if they really want "fair" to go see their mamas.

On ATAG, no swearing or abuse on chat & Teamspeak and no fragging. That's it. Everything else goes.

Must agree with Buzzsaw on the 109 performance issue and with ATAG_Snapper regarding pilot conduct on the ATAG server. That said, the 109 damage model is still in need of some urgent fine tuning.

The 109s main problems is that

a) appearantly it lacks any armor protection
b) it's some 40 km/h slower on the deck than it should be
c) handling esp. stall characteristics are quite unforgiving against the real thing's rather stable nature
d) way too quick overheating since the last patch
e) the Sound Radar Exploit on the Red side.

High altitude problems seem to effect all planes.

Everything is ok. Just learn to fly the planes ! Great work. luthier + team

Hi Kurfurst, there is more:

f) wing too fragile (one cannon hit from another Emil = wing off)
g) Erhoehte Notleistung exploit (you can fly at 1.45ata all day)
h) wrong engine modelled with the FTH of A-1 and ata of Aa.
i) top ceiling too low (not problem of all planes, 100octane Hurricane is OK)

As for the others:

We don't know this for sure, the headrest armour is not represented in the 3d model, otherwise I find the amounts of coolant leaks and fueltank fires pretty much OK and consistent with their position in the 3d model. If you shoot with .303s, there is usually dozens of hits on the target. I agree that RAF fuel tanks should burn easier but that's not an issue with the 109. I find the 109s DM very reasonable now and consistent with the coolant leaks and fires described by RAF attackers in their combat reports. It is also about how lucky you are, sometimes you score plenty of hits and there is nothing visible, just like in real life where 109 returned to base with 30+ holes. Sometimes one bullet can take ou out. Same thing happens when you shoot at RAF with .303s except there is never a fuel fire from the wing tanks.

We can get 470-475kph IAS which is 25-30kph slower. Still not spot on but not as bad, considering that all aicraft are slower than they should be. Now they seem to be equally slower. Perhaps this has something to do with the atmosphere modelled in the game, I don't know.

I love the 109 and I fly it a lot and I never had a problem with the stall. I only stall it when I make a mistake, e.g. too much foot in a maneuveur or silly stuff like high speed stall because I am greedy to get guns on that breaking fella and do too much adjustment in a short time. The slats now work almost perfectly, the 109 is nice and stable. You need to be careful in slow speed maneuveurs but she behaves well. I see lots of 109s stalling but I don't know what they're doing wrong, maybe too fast with the throttle, wrong rudder control or wrong RPM. I don't see good pilots on Repka 4 stalling at all.

I am flying the 109 at full power, both rads open, no issues. I am aware that you could do 1,35ata @ 2400U/min with slightly closed water rad in real life but considering the overheating is a bit on the aggresive side for everything (been like that since day one for RAF btw, it's relatively new for the 109), it's good enough I guess. The only weird thing on 109 is inconsistency of temperatures throughout the subvariants.

Some players do have it, some players don't. This is an old problem since Il-2, where some players actually fiddled with the conf.ini so they could hear the engines behind them. I personally can't hear the 109 unless he shot me already and is passing over my head (that is usually slightly too late :D). I fly with canopy open at low alts because of better SA. I now pay by extra drag for this comfort. It is not right of course and should be fixed for good. But that's not something that is wrong with the 109.

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