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- IL-2 Sturmovik (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=98)

- - Fatigue ingame.. (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=2133)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegRag1977

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG1_Gunkan

"I noticed, that you were doing high Gs for 6 minutes now, and in real life it was no more than 3 Gs for most turns, and in 2 minutes you were not able to see what gauges showed!”

Viktor Alexeevich Tikhomirov

Really?

More info, more info, please!

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...214#7521013214

Google UBi for FPSOLKOR's posts..........he frequently posts VVS vets memories.....and I can clearly remember him saying what is quoted above.
Here is his compilation;

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...3/m/3431087335

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG1_Gunkan

I can certainly believe that easy enough!!! Today's G suits allow us to pull more G's for a greater amount of time... plus the A/C today are BUILT to pull sustained high G's... PLUS they did not train to offset GLOC by using techniques...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pit

Personally I am rather dubious as to how "fatique" is going to be modeled...

I can tell you from PERSONAL experience of flying REAL combat aircraft (albeit in jets... F-111, F-4G/E, and F-16 )AND in combat, and having the WONDERFUL opportunity to fly several WWII A/C... compliments of the CAF (Confederate Air Force/ Commemorative Air Force)... pilot fatique is VERY different for each person... a pilot in very good physical shape and using proper techniques can sustain high G maneuvers and higher G's longer, and better than somebody that is not as conditioned or experienced in proper techniques... I also can attest that even if you ARE bone tired, that when bogies are sighted... that fatique goes away VERY FAST and is indeed replaced with serious adrenaline!!! BUT... after the engagements are over and you make it back to base... you almost have to be lifted out of the cockpit you are so beat. Especially if it is not the only sortie you flew that day!!! It is not typically, until AFTER you are safe from the engagments that the fatigue sets in... and in MANY cases the shakes!!! :oops:

So how is this going to be modeled properly... ESPECIALLY since they flew several sorties a day??? I am curious but a bit apprehensive as to see how this will be done!!

EDIT - Well guess it was already covered....

Quite right but you flew in combat planes with hydraulically assisted control surfaces... not WWII fighters where you had to arm wrestle the thing... So your fatigue comes from pulling G's and not pulling G's and fighting heavy resistance.... Which amounts to lifting weights as you're pulling high G's... not the same workloads...

I'm a ex CAF officer myself... not a pilot though and the effect of adrenaline is infact quite real... but one must not set aside the effect of physical fatigue... this is when even when you push yourself your body says HELL NO.... this is when you have reached your breaking point....

This limit is different for everybody and it will be interesting to see how it is implemented....

Regards,

This is all relevent of course if the AI is subject to the same restrictions...

It's great to hear that pilot fatigue will be in bob. That was the missing feature IMO. No fatigue model in IL2 is like a race sim without tyre wearout.

It will not only make the sim far more realistic in the way people will fight, but will also be good for the popularity of "crap planes". At the moment even slight differences in performance make you win or loose against an even enemy. With the fatigue model it's not longer only the plane but also the pilot. So if you don't fly your plane like a tie fighter you might be able to easily kill a supperior enemy aircraft. This is exellent for rising the motivation in realistic dogfights or coop missions for the side with a bit worse aircraft, like 109G6 vs La5 F or P40 vs Zero.
At least that's what I hope

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegRag1977

Stupid questions: how many times did you disengage a fight in IL2 or is it only a 190 jock option.

It's an option of the faster plane, they get to force the other plane to engage and get to be able to disengage whenever the heat gets too much.

Its one of the many things I like about the 190s, but they can't disengage from everyone.

-Raven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pit

Personally I am rather dubious as to how "fatique" is going to be modeled...

I can tell you from PERSONAL experience of flying REAL combat aircraft (albeit in jets... F-111, F-4G/E, and F-16 )AND in combat, and having the WONDERFUL opportunity to fly several WWII A/C... compliments of the CAF (Confederate Air Force/ Commemorative Air Force)... pilot fatigue is VERY different for each person... a pilot in very good physical shape and using proper techniques can sustain high G maneuvers and higher G's longer, and better than somebody that is not as conditioned or experienced in proper techniques... I also can attest that even if you ARE bone tired, that when bogies are sighted... that fatique goes away VERY FAST and is indeed replaced with serious adrenaline!!! BUT... after the engagements are over and you make it back to base... you almost have to be lifted out of the cockpit you are so beat. Especially if it is not the only sortie you flew that day!!! It is not typically, until AFTER you are safe from the engagments that the fatigue sets in... and in MANY cases the shakes!!! :oops:

So how is this going to be modeled properly... ESPECIALLY since they flew several sorties a day??? I am curious but a bit apprehensive as to see how this will be done!!

Exactly.. and thats why I say it would be hard to model.. because of how it was. Some pilots used to work out constantly... while others partied hard... some guys were small and wiry while others were big and strong as an ox... How do you model that in a way that is .. realistic? You will wind up with everyone being in tip top shape... and the "fatigue' level will be equal across the board eventually... How many of you guys would set your fatigue levels at average? The AI you might mix up... but you? You will be what you will be..... and you cant tell me that anyone in here would shortchange themselves for "realism's sake... knowing that there is a pretty good chance that the other guy either is at max or near it... It is a waste of time IMO in anything but the AI... and that would be interesting because it would give you another level of AI variables to program. When I make a mission I usually mix up the AI... most are average.. or a mix of average and veteran with the rookie and occasional ace tossed in there... to me it makes for a more interesting mission than setting then all to Ace or rookie or whatever.. and fatigue would be another variable to use in AI programming.

I know that Pappy Boynton was a great example of this- defying the g- ratings of the Corsair and P-40 by out-toughing his opponent. He weight lifted, and grunted healvilly while out-manuevering opponents 8)

Every aircraft unit from specific series ever made was absolutely identical.
And further on.........their performance remained the same after they were used too.

It's a fakt.

You guys think to much.... Oleg just has to model ---1 pilot--- and every one has to manage the energy of the said pilot...

Nice to see the usual ... I work out so my pilot model is going to be p.o.r.ke.d. or he does not work out... so his pilot model is nerfed... LOL

Like it was said before... just have 1 pilot model and every body has to live with the same model... have that model influence by G's, stick force, rudder use, duration of the effort etc.... kind of what we have for the black out and red out...

So in other words.... EVERY ONE ON THE SAME LEVEL PLAYING FIELD...