Its worth making sure that after turning on your joystick (if it isn't when you start up) and before you start the game that you move the stick through all its movement, including throttle. Sometimes if I don't my PC assumes that certain axes are at 100% when at 50% or so so there is not full movement and I have to move the stick through all its axes in the air when i realise which is dangerous. It might not be your joystick, just the way that calibration works.

These ac were tested in mock combat by the RAE back in 1940 and the results are well documented.

May be two or more players could agree to test the 109 v Spit on a server - find a quiet part of the map and be on the same TS channel.

It would be interesting to see the results of such a test for the CloD 109/Spits but, for the results to be meaningful, the players would have to be completely impartial.

I agree. Since the patch the game is much less dynamic. Encountering nothing but Spit II's online is making things quite dull. Unless critical damage is inflicted on the first pass almost every combat will play out the same. The Hurricane & Spit Ia FM's should be a priority to make them competitive online.

Sorry, I am not that FM expert, but what is about turning speed at low speed.

Perhaps I remember wrong, but as I learned it, the graphs of spit vs 109 always showed the tendency, that the bf suddenly turns better than a spit at real slow speed. I even remwmber some graphs, that a 109 even could turn faster at some low speed, than a LA5. Were this graphs referring to the real life or to the old il2?

I also remember some flights in old il2, where I thought, that I pulled my F4 to the max, but a P38 turned with me. I know that this smy fault and my lack of flying skills at this time, so you should really ask yourself, if the other pilot was simply much better pilot than you!?!

Just to throw the big ???? of skill lack into the discussion of this case. :) I do not want to blame anybody, bit just take it into account when argueing about fm.

What I got to hear from some skilled pilots and self named experts is the opposite of snapper. I heard thatthis should be okay so far, because bf109 had nearly no fm advantage left. They for sure say, that there are other things to be fixed, but I never heard anybody of them complaining as hard as snapper.

The bf is not uber! I am really looking forward to the implementation of fw190's WITH "kommandogeraet?", which will cause the focke to be uber in many condition. But that is another topic, but red pilots will argue about that as well. :)

Not a bad idea.
Could run a series of tests where pilots fly 109 v spits, then swap aircraft.

Then also put the same guys in spits v spits and 109s v 109s just to see how much human/ pilot skill influences their ability to turn.

...incidentally, did a performance graph for the Spit 2a ever get released by BalckSix after that patch? I can only find 1a graphs....

It's said that so many discussions end in an argument that is so obviously and selfishly swayed by the plane they fly. Planes on both side were very close in the out come of a dog fight in the BOB. It came down to pilot ability and luck. I find that just checking the stats window can give you a pretty good idea what planes are performing best at different stages of game development. For instance I have noticed the Hurricane has fallen from favor and scores are lower overall (red slightly ahead).

At the moment both sides are down on fighter performance and it's very frustrating since the patch. I don't mind to much because COD is a work in progress. The main aim at the moment is computer performance issues and progress (for most)is obviously being made because more guys are playing now.

Actually, you raise some valid points that need to be fixed -- especially the open canopy that doesn't cause any speed reduction. The "sound radar" was greatly reduced with the latest patch, but not eliminated.

Turning rate reduction with the patch? Can't say -- no data on that. Visible damage with no effect on performance? Can't say I've been that lucky. Ram a 109 and fly away undamaged? Can't say, either -- never done it.

Bring back old Spit IIa? Nope. Just fix the FM of the existing Spits and Hurries. Yes, that does mean 100 octane and 12 (not 20) lbs boost with the short term performance boost that was historically accurate.

One last thing: if you have any strength of conviction then have the guts to post under your regular handle.

You will always be on the side of your favorite plane and that is also a good point. So, you can only rely on ingame graphs to be released and discuss that. Hopefzlly, after the performance fix, tje dwvs can talk with us about that topic and I see that coming. It bexomes necessary as more and more planes will join the game with sequels. Just let us hope, that they will get into thos discussion soon, but not on the currently given data. You can just discuss, when ingame data is available. Then you can compare between the planes and also between game and reality data to change non sufficient simulation of various things. This will be a long way, because there is so much things to influence performance or behaviour of the graphs ingame in simulated conditions. It is very difficult.

Concerning "kommandogeraet" a friend told me, that a spit mk XVII and a focke flew side by side and the spit already had full throttlle, while the fw190 flew withnearly no throttle. I think, that pilots often do some faults and that this kommandogeraet was really superior. The focke pilot just flies, while the spit pilot has to manage several things in every new condituon to maintain good performance. I hope, that this will be simulated as well. So, one fault by a spit pilot and he gets serious problems with the focke! :)

Trust me, that wasn't my post! LOL

But he/she did raise some valid points which few take issue -- including the canopy. Haven't collided with any 109's post patch, but I'll take the faceless "snapperpuss" word that it's only the Spit that flies away unharmed from a ramming and never the 109. Huge damage on a Spit but no change in performance? Hmmm, as I said in my response to him -- I haven't been that lucky yet!