We will be Alfa testers anyway when the game comes out. This is basically the same I would say.

I've done open and closed beta testing....REAL testing, not just playing the game lol. It's not all it is cracked up to be. It's not all that "fun" when done properly.

No need for beta testing for this sim, IMHO. They will do their own internal beta testing, get it as complete as possible, and release the game. Additional bugs will pop up (they always do, even after wide beta testing) and they will quickly fix the bugs.

Public Beta testing is only really worth anything when the developers rush or have a history of not patching their games efficiently. Oleg and crew enjoy the exact opposite reputation. While we will find bugs int he game, they will get patched (if possible).

I too have been burned many times on software where I did not do proper research. As a matter of fact, I typically WILL NOT buy a game that does not have a free demo. I bought X-Plane because it had a good, free demo limited to 10 minutes of flight time.

Demos are for marketing. Betas are for working out bugs. I'm ok with this sim being released without a beta because I have confidence in the development team long term. Why? Because not only do they have a history of good patching, they stay in contact with the zealots in the community dedicated to their previous game.

Plus, this is not a huge company. EA screws buyers of new games on a regular basis but they are so large they can absorb the hits. My guess is that a LOT is riding on the success of this title....they will do everything possilbe to make it successful.

So saying, there really does need to be a good demo down the road to expand sales. Demos tend to answer the two most basic questions: how will it run on my computer and might I enjoy the game?

Splitter

It's not degrading, it's "constructive criticism". After all, if we'd all say that every post is great and perfect, how would that help posters to improve their contributions here? ;)

agree

Good one, i LOL'ed :-P


On the matter of open beta, i've only participated in one recently. It's a totally different game genre from a totally different type of company( Startcrfaft 2, a real time strategy game by Blizzard), but some comparisons can be made.

I think that all of the poll's options are correct to a certain extent and that's why i didn't vote. The way i see it, an open beta tied to pre-purchase of the release version is a very good idea that will generate funds and help hunt for bugs IF there's a dedicated team to moderate the beta process and safety mechanisms exist to prevent leaking of the code.

The Stracraft 2 open beta was strictly multiplayer on a handful of maps, with the aim of testing the balance between different units in the game and hunting for the occasional bug.

Since SoW is a flight sim we don't adjust things based on balance but based on historical documentation.
If we had a strictly multiplayer beta on 3-5 custom made, fictional dogfight maps for SoW it could work. The beta version would be highly incomplete, the only things it would be useful for would be:

1) getting a feel for the system requirements and how it scales on a variety of systems
2) possible bugs
3) gathering specific feedback from the knowledgeable people in the community about how stuff works and wether it's close enough to how the real thing works

Serious testing and feature change requests would be reserved for the internal team, but having the benefit of a wide range of people who work as pilots, mechanics, etc commenting on how close it is to real life would be the advantage of the open beta. It's also a source of indirect and in many cases viral marketing.

During the SC2 beta people were allowed to post replays and commentaries of their multiplayer matches on youtube, going so far as to have post-match analysis sessions just like in real-life sports. This built much more sales than the official marketing campaign, because a few thousand players are more likely to find and present every nook and cranny of the gameplay experience than a small team of advertising executives on the publisher's payroll who'll only show a few pretty cinematics and some screenshots on maxed detail settings, with no context as to what they mean or how fluidly they run and on what system. Watching someone comment on the game on youtube however, you can see both why it's fun to play and how it runs on the commentator's system and you can extrapolate from there.

Of course, SoW doesn't have the potential market base that SC2 had. Nevertheless, the same thing can happen on a smaller scale to attract either newcomers or simmers from other genres.
Imagine videos of complex engine start-ups and systems management being posted on youtube, then circulating in the avsim forums where all the FSX pilots lounge...that's an easy few thousand sales extra right there ;)

But then again, in order for this to work there should be a strict moderating team that will keep in line all the people who participate in the beta, by walking the thin line between a relaxed NDA (eg, permission to post videos and such) and complete chaos due to what you guys called the "whiner's club" before.

I'de be all for it as long as people could lose their beta privileges if they were being disruptive jerks (after all, they wouldn't be paying for the beta but pre-ordering the game and getting the beta as a gift).

In fact, it's one of the handful of cases that i think an online authentication model would work well. I hate this model for release versions of games (i have neither RoF nor DCS because of their copy protection choice), but a beta is not a release version:

1) a beta is free, so even if it's down there's no grounds to complain (as opposed to buying a game and being unable to authenticate online, which sucks)
2) by issuing renewable weekly "tickets"/product keys by email and having the beta client expire and require an updated key to renew every week, you can easily cut down on the amount of disruptive players by cutting them off from the automatic key generator mailing list and banning them from the beta subforum

Haha, good answer :D although I thought constructive criticism needed evidence? :eek: (JK)

I read the whole post...and I understand the deal.

And I still think it would NEVER work for this community...the very idea is hilarious.

We're all here because we are interested in Il-2, and love the game. I am sure that the whole forum who are experienced in playing such a game could do a great job if the offer came up.

boy i bet oleg would love to have you on the beta test team, send him a pm about it :grin:

And RoF :)