Thanks, from me, D_F_N and Geroj who's currently working on the next version. And the HLA guys needs a big thanks too for sharing their work so freely:grin:

There was one guys that said he would do that, but changed his mind. He thinks the weapon stats in 1.6 is close enough and not worth the effort. I have done some minor tweaks myself, and D_F_N has some good ideas about implementing new types of weapons and ammo that gives the player new tactical options.

I don't even know if this is possible or not, but is the severity of the drop calculated in the degree of wear and dirtiness the dropped weapon suffers?

The reason why I ask is that my main concern in reading about this feature is if it gets too severe. Dropping a weapon that's been fired a handful of times and that's dropped from shoulder height on top of a relatively clean concrete surface is not going to suffer the kind of wear and dirt accumulation that would occur from a rapidly fired, thin-barreled firearm that's dropped over the edge of 7 m. high cliff.

I'm thinking specifically of a horrific real life firefight in Afghanistan where something like 9-12 soldiers were killed. When the hours-long firefight was over, they conducted an investigation as to why so many Americans were killed. The main conclusion of this study was that their firearms performed poorly for the circumstances. Witnesses recalled the thinner barrels of the M4's glowing white hot. The barrels bent just from resting them on top of a surface. They also found some that were impossibly jammed. If I'm not mistaken, the same thing occurred with less frequency to the M16's (A3's, A4's?) that were there. All of this with highly maintained weaponry!

No doubt, we're talking about an extreme situation that we wouldn't necessarily encounter in the game, but I mention it just to better illustrate what I'm bringing up here. A weapon that fired 3-4 magazines' worth of ammo within 5 min.'s time, and then dropped a meter and half certainly wouldn't be as "worn" and "dirty" as one that's fired twice as many rounds in the same amount of time and dropped from a height that's three times greater.

Will this new feature take such into consideration? Otherwise, I worry that my chief means of upgrading my equipment (scavenging) would become irrelevant because all of the weapons will just be badly worn and dirtied when the vast majority of the time any such wear and dirt should be quite low (seriously, I'd be surprised if most enemies get more than 3 magazines' worth of rounds fired before they get eliminated).

To me, I'd imagine it would make more sense to determine the level of wear and dirt on a weapon based on the social class background of its shooter. I would expect bandits to have the most worn weapons, but, that said, they make their living with their weapons, so I would assume that they would be highly motivated to take good care of them, so...

Just wondering. :)

I think he means 'dropped' in sense of spawned, in the same way money and equipment is dropped. Not physically dropped from a height.

It would make sense to have the Bad Guy's spawn with a random amount of wear and dirt to their guns before the firing starts, not just add some after they are dead.

I think the poorer the BG the worse his equipment would be. Bandits don't scratch a living from firing guns at poor civilians, they make money by pointing them and intimidating their victims.

Regular Army would have older and more worn equipment but at least clean.

Elite units would have clean and new equipment.

One thing I would like to see but I expect it's an engine limitation is bullet penetration through bodies. Often a BG will go prone behind the body of his mate and there's nothing you can do to hit him unless you reposition. And yes i know bullets are meant to stop in flesh, that's how they work, but maybe if a body takes excessive damage such as point blank from a grenade or with a 50+ MG rounds it would disintegrate to nothing (be deleted from the game) including equipment?

One of the new maps, can't remember the name of it but has a lot of hills and jungle, seems to have bad geometry in places. I've been spotted and shot at by enemies through 2 sections of solid ground and returned fire back through the same ground.

Anything can be done with launched grenade's firing arc? It's to flat. 40mm LV grenades only travel at 76 mps (at the muzzle) and should have a higher arc especially at longer ranges.

Tozmeister,

If you're correct that R@S intends on having the weapons' state of wear and dirtiness being declared at the moment of spawning, that makes sense to me, especially if he's following your well written theory of why bandits usually have their weapons at a certain state that differs from the rebels, soldiers, and elites.

I could handle that, especially if the AI are made subject to having to deal with inferior equipment.

I too agree with you in regards to rounds penetrating through bodies to potentially strike other bodies. Armor piercing rounds against un- or lightly armored targets would certainly be much more likely to do this. As much as I would like to have this feature integrated, I wouldn't want it if it required the first struck body to "disappear." If that's the only solution to have a round successfully penetrate a body, then I'd much rather keep the system as it is.

I strictly reserve disappearing bodies to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. :grin:

Dropped enemy weapons are now worn and dirty
means that the enemies dont have their weapons on top condition. That happens when the enemies spawn, not after they die.
It means that you may now see enemies trying to unjam their weapons!
This is a huge step forward since it is something that was implemented in BE5 but cut in 7.62 and many fans were asking for the return of this feature.
I m also pretty sure that you cant assign damage and wear according to groups of enemies, at least for now.
Also, please understand the limitations of the code. Sure i would like also for more realistic dropped weapon wear and damage according to height and temperature as Kyle suggested but this is clearly out of the hands of the modders.
About the AP bullets passing through bodies though, you ll have to wait for a response from R@S. Its probably not possible but i dont really know.

As D_F_N, the weapon wear and dirt are implemented when the enemies are created by the engine, and so far I havent figured out how to separate Soldiers from bandits. There is a setting in the BlueSunMod,ini where you can set the max % of wear and dirt, it will be set at 25% as default.

The enemy bodies issue is out of my reach, but I use a little trick I'd like to share. Throw a grenade near the dead bodies and if you're lucky they'll shift position from the blast. This tactic has saved my bacon several times:)

As the proverb goes, when it rains it pours. The Blue Sun team has gotten a new 3d modeler, Geroj, and he has made several new weapons. Carkiller from the HLA team sent me some of his new models and then this weekend another member of the HLA team, cyr-v sent me even more. As it is now, 35 new weapon has been added and more is on the way. I hope I'll have time to implement and test them all before the next release.

I registered to say how impressed I am with Blue Sun Mod. It fleshes out what seems to be a pretty sparse game. The game in general doesn't quite measure up to JA2's polish, but I like the combat system much better and I understand it's more work with 3d.

I'm curious how the mod works with a separate executable. Did some of the source code for 7.62 get released? Why? And who has access?

Some parts of the source code has been released to the public for more than 2 years. It includes the missions, some global AI, characters and maps. But the most interesitng parts, like the weapon system and AI is not available. The new executable has been made by hex hacking the e6.exe, those Russkies certainly know what they're doing:)

If you're intersted in the released source code, let me know and I'll post a link to it.

Yeah I'd like to take a peek. We're talking C++ here right? I wonder how only PART of the code could be leaked.

Here 'tis

7.62 source code

The code is a hybrid between C and C++, but if you know either of those it should be fairly simple to understand.

And this was not leaked, and it was a conscious decision of Aperion to release it, they knew it would give the game a longer shelf life. It's understandable, at least when they were still in business, that they wanted to protect their SPM and weapon system.