Sallee,

You wrote the best post I've ever read here. I'm a 47 years old engineer, and I share every line of your post. "It's amazing that this thing exists at all". Amen.

Cheers,
6S.Insuber

If people actually took the time to do this we wouldnt have all these religous wackos either. And we might actually have a planet without jihads and crusades....oh well I guess I can dream..

No offense, but I don't take orders from the voices in your head.

Not american...Choose any top rated micro-brasseries from Montreal...;)

And from what I have seen and understood from Oleg, to get close to photorealistic graphics for this flightsim at a decent framerate with current affordable PC, it is still better today to run the game with less ultra-high-tech and "unstable" technology but with more optimized and tightly tweaked well known API...We still dont know to what extend this new engine will be able to be upgraded and how it can be done...But I am no expert here...If I am correct, Luthier said that the new clouds and weather systems were already implemented, but were unplayable at this time due to the lack of optimization...Do they need to use DX11 for those f/x or any new technologies ? Maybe...Time will tell ...

Salute !

Hey you,

Hypercritics, if you are here I assume that you are interested in prop flight sims, as I am.
So, have you considered the alternatives to ClOD, if you look today for a good WWII flight sim? Zero. Nothing. Nada. No market = no investments. Only a huge passion could produce Il2 then, and CloD now.

A "thank you" to Oleg and team could be added here and there to your deluge of criticism, I think.

Cheers,
6S.Insuber

rotfl!

And that's where I stopped paying attention. Heliocon, you've got to be one of the rudest posters I have seen round here.
dx11 will make the game look better, but with a significant performance hit. You think fully implemented tesselation effects wouldn't reduce th gwme to a slideshow on 95% of people's rigs? This market share you talk of is deceptive. It may be around 30% for people with dx11 capable cards, but how many run games well, hell, how many games actually use it? Quality of frame rates and number of titles would be a better indicator of market share.
Lol
And lol again
Excellent post
Concur!

Another view on the DX debate:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/gra...l-to-directx/1

Not that it matters too much, flight sims are generally CPU-limited anyway.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but didn't last weeks update show that tessellation was already implemented?

and Helicon said best himself:
and that my friends and fellow posters, and even Helicon is exactly what the CloD ENGINE is. It is the next/newest/next gen flight engine. Just because it doesn't (you presume) have the newest graphics hardware implemented doesn't mean it's last gen. It's the ENGINE that is next-gen.

Your brain seems to be rather antiquated, and poorly oiled. You spew vitriol and then get upset when others return it. Before you post breathe a bit, and calm down. No one is attacking you personally (well before you started doing it.) On the same note we've all gotten rather savage lately, anticipation obviously a factor, and we really need to step back and be a bit more cordial towards one another and the devs.

3000 draw calls, that limits the number of aircraft to 300 (10 possible moving parts) and if you add bombs, parachutes, ground vehicles and ground objects, it will detract more from the aircraft numbers.

Stayed a night in the Backpackers near Seven Oaks on my first night in England in the early 90's (an old Church?) Trying to remember the name of the pub I went to?????

It really pisses me off when you religious zealots (and by that I mean Atheists) get to insult people of faith all you want but when we push back the thread gets locked because we're talking about "religion". Well you have more faith in your bogus religion than I do in mine so I guess you win in the religion game. Try staying on topic for five minutes.

AMEN! Let's try to have a little appreciation for someone who has put his money where his mouth is instead of just letting his mouth run unattended like too many do here.

No its not because tesselation requires dx11 which is not in the release version.

Love the moronic responses, saying I said something, I ask you to show where I said that, and you just throw more insults. Seriously grow up, and their is a differance between arguing over a point and just throwing crap for the sake of it. If someone says I said something I did not say, and they keep insisting I did, despite the fact that they cannot provide evidence and its obvious they never went back to actually read the series of events as they happened, instead jumping on the bandwagon of kiddies throwing insults I reserve the right to call them lazy morons because if they cant read they should not post.

@Immerman - As for the AMD article - its an interesting read but the only thing I would point out is that AMD is ticked off at DirectX/Nvidia atm because Nvidia dx11 cards are better overall in dx11 then ati (especially tesselation).

@ Titus - no you sound stupid now. I can say this because you are making statements about something you dont know about. Tesselation does reduce performance, but it reduces performance substantially less then if you were to use other methods to generate the same detail. Over that it is much easier to use tesselation on an object then model multiple LOD versions.

So children here can keep up their attacks and absurd statements based on no substance, but I reserve the right to yet again say FAIL because all my statements for the last 5 months on windows market share, gpu share in general and graphics design have been word by word topic by topic legitimised by the devs in the more recent interviews, and that was after a similar scrap in the forum over dx11 at release. So as of know I have been the only person able to more or less "predict" or forsee what the devs would or should do to solve these issues. That doesnt mean I will always be right, but its better then others records here.

Well that really nibbles the cookie that one.

Sir, this is tessellation. Oleg said somewhere around 2 months ago it likely wouldn't be in the release. You are arguing a point that makes little sense, and you are flying in the face of evidence all the while shouting insults at people. Then getting indignant about it. Calm down. Perhaps the way you are stating things doesn't make sense to others the way it does to you.

Heliocon, is there a point to your ranting?

What is tesselation? You didnt show anything their that indicates tesselation which makes you look rather silly. So please explain how that photo shows tesselation, because obviously you said it "is" tesselation. So please describe in the photo what is tesselated and how you know that.

Now what evidence are you talking about, and what point am I arguing? Because you failed to say in your post through quote or any other method what you were talking about. Which looks retarded...

Apologies for getting caught up in this, but I - like just about everyone - am getting fed up:

CloDo was claimed to have a 'next gen' engine; Heliocon rightly pointed out that this wasn't so - as it didn't take advantage of the absolute latest technologies. That's all. No calling the engine rude things; no claiming there was anything better; no discounting the very valid reasons the dev team had for not including, for example, DX11 from the off.

Heliocon provided links to his (I presume, my apologies if not) sources for specific numbers used when the discussion moved on to the possible influence changing market share of various cards (and so the 'right-' or 'wrong'ness of that decision by the devs to go with stable rather than cutting-edge). When faced with EVIDENCE that supported a different interpretation, he was able to move on and adopt that new information - laudable, and more than could be said for some.

It seems to me very much that others are getting all het up over indirectly related issues, leading to everyone getting a little hot under the collar and insults and claims of rants now abound.

Why?

Take a step back, don't read too much into what anyone says, but pay attention to what it is that they do say. Fair enough to call CloDo 'not state of the art' - it isn't, with the best will in the world. Now, it would be unfair to call it anything other than the newest and the best...but nobody has :) Heliocon, Tree and co. often take quite a lot of flak from those who misinterpret and misrepresent what it is they say. Not that they always handle the situation perfectly, but who does?

Having, at great length, established that on release Cliffs of Dover will be the best PLATFORM (agreed by all) on which to base a long-running WWII aviation simulation, with updates including full utilisation of DX11 etc (also agreed) just as soon as is practical, and that people are imperfect (who knew?!)...can we please now move on?

love love,

Screwy

PS EDIT: See above for perfect example.

Kikuchiyo, I'm afraid that's not tessellation (nice though it would be!), it's just a very effective texture. If you look to the edges of the sandbags you can see pretty clearly that they are absolutely vertical. If tessellated you'd be able to see the 3D outline of the sandbags, where at the moment there is only a flat 2D line denoting the edge.
Heliocon, having just defended you somewhat, please play nicely - does no harm to try to correct people so they can appreciated where they were mistaken in a way which leads them to learn more...I fear insults and patronising isn't the way to do this...

Guys honestly, we need to do something about these forums. Can we let these DX arguments dissolve please? Agree to disagree? It's like watching an old married couple fight and I'm really not interested in sifting through all this just to get some of the rare bits of interesting tid bits many forum members contribute.

I mean no disrespect to both parties, but honestly I would LOVE to come here for a visit and not watch the same people battling back and forth. I know it's tough, but let that frontal lobe of your brain do some work and control that rage/rant nonsense that's really getting tired here.

We should go back to constructive posts, typed in an adult manner showing respect and civility.

Okay, apologize in advance for the "school master" topic of this post. We should all just calm down, have a drink and look forward to the end of a multi year development process.

:cool:

Some will like it, some won't...it's not going to bring about world peace or bring balance to the force.

1+

I don't think he's getting attacked for the content of his posts (unless we're talking about the "team maddox can do no wrong" crowd, which i also disagree with...how about some balance? ;) )
It's the way he words them that's insulting to many people and detracts from the point he's trying to make.
I might be the most well-informed, correct person on the planet in any given field, a true authority. If i go about trying to convince people by calling them names, it's easy to see that i don't really stand any chances.

Some people can't grasp his points, i'm not talking about the ones that won't but about the ones that miss it in all the clutter (and he does make some valid ones), but part of the responsibility is his, it's like he's on a constant rage-posting spree. If he prefaces his argument starting with "you idiots", nobody will pay attention past that. And that's entirely his fault because that's how he usually rolls.

Short version: good points, lousy presentation that ends up having the exact opposite effect to the one desired.

Found a referece to Beaufighters in the Battle of Britain

"Entry into Fighter Command service came during August 1940 with the Fighter Interception Unit at Tangmere. The following month, five squadrons received the Mark 1F equipped with Mark IV Air Intercept radar for night-fighter duties although the type's first kill wasn't until November of that year."

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/beaufighter.html

So even though they didn't get a kill they were still in service?

Cheers!

The engine is undoubtedly "next gen" perhaps the graphics aren't "next gen" yet, but the engine itself is. We seem to be getting two issues confused here. It is the next engine, there has been nothing as in-depth and technical, or comprehensive before in flight sims. This I think has been the real point of contention.

Thank you for the clarification. I was just so dazzled and hadn't ever seen 2d texturing done so well I assumed it was, but thank you for pointing out my error.

Thank you for the good post, I will try to take it down a few notches, I do get red under the collar sometimes because things just go in circles. You are the Jesus of forum posters.

+1

I'm going to make up a second name so I can agree with myself to. :grin: or at least answer my own post.

Kik - this is why I get frustrated. Everyone was started at a point where they did not know 1 thing from another. Compared to others here I know 0 about aviation or ww2 history. But when I make a comment or contest a point I try not to cast it as absolute.
(In general) Like said a big part of the thing that gets under my skin is having to argue over what is what with someone who does not know what they are saying, now you can explain it to them, but often no matter how polite it goes in circles as people jump in to make their comment then jump out, then gets pulled off into tangent arguments and a free for all where people insist that their point of view must be right because others agree (even though others are simply trolling the person or themselves dont know what is going on, which is what irritated me in this thread when thing got pulled way out of context). Once this happens for repeatedly in different threads over a period of time, often by the same people its hard to keep your cool. Many people go after tree for his comments, yes he is critical, but thats not bad. People say he doesnt care, but if he didnt he would not be here (and if he was here to flame, which trees normally try to avoid at all costs, he would of been much "louder" in his comments to incite argument).


I know this thread is not about dx11, but to avoid further misunderstandings here is a short simple demo of how direct compute and tesselation works - here though the water is the main thing which is a mix of multiple methods so ignore the tesselation title because it was paired with another video I believe (the land is tesselated, the water is direct compute I believe, but to keep it simple they didnt define the differances). Now the other thing to note is that to program or do this art by hand the normal way in Maya or other software would be litrally impossible, but using this system, it auto scales and therefore greatly reduces work load for artists. This is the video I linked to about 4-5 months ago for a suggestion on how they could do water in COD for DX11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfrSa...eature=related

This video is good because it shows you how it can be applied at a distance to effectivly replace classic LOD models where normally at a distance I would swap a low res/poly model to a high res one resulting in objects suddenly changing shape. This also could be appled to terrain, so terrain close to you is as detailed as the human eye can see when close to the ground, and when you gain altitude it gradualy and discretly lowers the level of detail. By doing this we could gain all the benefits of high polygon terrain without the huge workload needed to model it and display it at a distance. Same thing for houses and buildings. This is Unigine Heaven demo, its coming close to two years old now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkKtY2G3FbU
You can download it and play around with the settings yourself at: http://unigine.com/products/heaven/

Those white lines are the geometry/polygons. There are alot of "tricks" artists use in games to make you think it is a detailed surface, when in reality it is just a flat surface with bump mapping and textures applied to it to "trick" your eyes into seeing it as 3d. Now the problems with this is that it is fake, and if you look closely you can see it. Also if you look at an angle the texture warps severly and looks strange (anistrophic filtering helps reduce this).

I will leave it at here :cool:

+1
A very good post that I can whole heartily agree. You could indeed say CoD is a modern day miracle in the gaming world. I can only hope people realise this game will be a result of labour of love. A love for aviation that I think most of us here share.

Classy.

Did it cross your mind that the choice might be dx11, tesselation and naff performance or, and here's the ground breaking bit you ignore, no tesselation effects, no dx10 tech compensation and good performance. Basically not doing the effects you get in dx11 at all, and having a reduced, in comparison, level of detail until a later patch activates it. Much the samevway the water detail was increased in il2's lifespan.

As I said, using dx11 capable card market share as the indicator is deceptive. Few people will build a new rig and use an old gpu, and dx11 capable cards have been about for the past 18 months+. That's basically all new gpu's, and a better indicator of how useful or applicable dx11 is would be assessing how many games use dx11 and how many people actually play in dx11 mode. HD capable televisions were available for years before we saw much in the way of HD broadcasts.

A recent article in PC Gamer talked about the usefulness of dx11, using the unigine heaven benchmarker. The conclusion was yes, it makes it look great, but it would be unplayable, and having flat textures rather than tesselated cobblestones is preferable from a gaming and playability viewpoint.

I'd like to add that if you're going to repeatedly call people stupid, it's a good idea to use "their" and "there" correctly.

Wow! Getting pretty heated the last few (or is it 10? ) pages.

The rate we're going Oleg had better not hold the game back too much longer - otherwise someone will have a heart attack or a stroke!

There were probably dozens of kicked cats when the delay was announced, hundreds of pointless arguments with partners/spouses, and literally thousands of teddies thrown in the corner through no fault of their own.

The humanitarian costs of further delays do not bear thinking about.

Is this true? Is Oleg quitting?




http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3241260

I tend to use the 'dummy spit' as a measure of fustration rather than the Teddy-Toss, unfortunately it has been of limited value in computing, when facing the computer monitor it tends to bounce off and hit the spitter in the face!

Cheers!

Well the whole Direct X 11 will most likely be a moot point now that Oleg as decided to leave the gaming industry, i cant imagine getting any of the add on features.

If the game sells well, there will be DX11. It's not like the game will die if Oleg leaves Maddox.

If Oleg does quit, it should be far less stressfull for ya. ;)

Lolololol

Bla , bla , bla...give it a rest:rolleyes:

Here's something cool.


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=19354

Yeah, happy days for Tree now that the developer behind this terribly bad sim is taking his leave...

The game is coming out and things will...I hope continue on with Ilya and the others.

how old is Oleg btw?

Grow up you spiteful child.

I thought you would of let us know Chivas, you and Oleg being so close and all that.

1/2 of one century

This is the perfect follow up to a post calling someone a spiteful child. Kudos to you!

The childish nature or spiteful forum members who try and belittle others is beyond me.
I really think it is hypocritical, too.

Clearly we all want to buy the game; we wouldn't have signed up to this forum if we weren't interested in the genre, so it is ridiculous to assume that people are happy Oleg is moving away from sim development, and equally stupid to assume that people don't want to buy the game, or see it develop into something even more special.

Well said Phil,
Used to enjoy visiting this forum for updates/vids/screens and flight combat
sim discussions with fellow mature gamers,but in the last few months it has
turned into a joke.
About 5% of members??? on here are destroying the forum.
Where are the Mods on this forum?
This behavior would not be tolerated on any other gaming forum.
The 95% of genuine members/visitors who have followed/played il 2 for
years and who have waited the past 5 years to play the best combat sim
ever are just sick and tired of the nonsense/off topic/trolling/insulting posts.
Should have been the most exciting week ever on this forum but instead
has been hijacked by the bad apple brigade.

You know its not really worth replying anymore, at this point I am just fed up with the trolls, who are too lazy to read so its not worth arguing with someone who is in their little bubble.

Chivas and Hayward - not once have I seen you 2 contribute in any way to a discussion other then with snide remarks. I love how you hate on tree when he didnt even comment, its obvious you are posting just to get a reaction and its childish.

-Didnt want to post it in the other thread, but for the record Olegs recent post about devs making low quality, high return multiplatform games that result in stagnation of the gaming industry is exactly what I said about a month ago. If people remember I posted a thread about GDC2011 graphics and made those exact points, about software (ported to pc with badly implemented changes) and the lack of motivation or need for new hardware.

-Hayward, learn to read kk?

Heliocon, I haven't seen you or Tree contribute in any way other than to troll and insult people. That's why I started making fun of you.

And you're not really in a position to be telling others to grow up.

"Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves..."


No offense Tree, but I'm starting to suspect that you may be a computer-generated algorithm - in any given situation pick the worst imaginable outcome...repeat...repeat...

;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...ght=oleg+leave

This looks like a new spin on old news...

Cheers!

A whole lot of text being written here, yet so little being said.

It is worth noting...

The TD is doing some excellent work with the IL2, and improving it consistently. I don't know what level of support Oleg provides.

IMO, there are a number of things that could be improved in the IL2 and it is still a viable air combat simulator. The FMB and Ai need work, along with some mapping.

The TD has mentioned they were going to do more with the AI, over the next couple months.

What I'm saying is this. If Oleg walked away after BOB COD, the IL2 still has potential for many more years of enjoyment.

So, I wouldn't get down in the dumps about it.

If Oleg did quit now, there are probably many companies that would be interested to buy the rights to BOB COD and continue to develop it. You see all the user base, the developed code, the good name and the potential are all there.

Rumors and rumors of rumors. It's all so useless.

It's not that anyone is too lazy to read your posts. It's more likely that most people don't read your posts because you start out with some sort of insult or put down. You've gone on for ten pages now, and I don't think I read one post by you that hasn't had something derogatory to someone within the first paragraph.

Things like "You take the retard cake." doesn't endear you to forum members, and comments like that make most of your good points moot.

Taste and tact go a long way. No matter how good the dinner is, if the dessert leaves a bitter taste, most will remember that instead of all the rest.

I don't have to know Oleg, to know your a endless pit of misinformation, about Oleg leaving, and the game engine being outdated. That goes for you too Heliocon.

Just out of interest, how many Australians in this forum?

Well content doesnt seem to matter on this forum, because no matter what is said or how it is said, very few people actually listen/bother to read. If someone claims I made a statement that I did not, and continually repeat the same rubish over and over again, they are an idiot. Sorry, simple as that.

On the other hand if the person makes a point, clearly states the reasoning for it, and provides evidence to base their argument off, then you can have a conversation. This element is unfrotunetly often lacking, and without it no debate will ever reach a resolution, irrespective of language used.

I am sure you would be irratated too if people misquoted/lied about what you said repeatedly then when asked to present evidence or the quote, they refuse to because you are being "rude" is rather moronic.

Time will tell. i guess UBI advertising CLOD with DX11 isnt misinformation??

Love that calender
I wanted to get a better look at "Messerschmitt Girl" :)

From looking at the World Wide Distribution thread I'd say we have 10 or so regular posters from Australia.

Here ya go

Thanks Alpha :)

Yes there more than 10.

What happened to that thread ?

You can look at her (a part;)) on the official Russian 1C website: http://games.1c.ru/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9api-Xk1Cs

For those that are a little concerned about the landscape in that video......Well accurate as it may be for 1940, England doesn't actually look like that anymore....We had the landscape and coastline changed in 1953 to a more acceptably conventional and random shape.....This decision was partly due to old ladies getting lost in corners and youths on motorcycles endlessly racing round in circles......

in CoD
missing for R.A. cant 1007
http://books.gigaimg.com/avaxhome/c1...c1_medium.jpeg
Download information:
http://rapidshare.com/#!download|661...1007.rar|53538
and caproni CA 133
http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/ita...oni_ca-133.jpg
download information:
http://i05.s2.imagehosting.ws/2010-0...ea_medium.jpeg
http://hotfile.com/dl/50566205/03d23...l?reff=2307410

lol !

It was funny, very funny...

Sorry Dano...I got cold feet and deleted it

Certainly time will tell. I don't have a problem with Ubi advertising DX11, as the game engine is capablable of using DX11, its just delayed until Microsoft and Maddox games can work out the problems with the unstable API.

Nonsense. This is before the drainage works were carried out around the North and South Circular. You're probably too young to remember.
The square bit is Brent Cross.

Thx for clearing that up.

I thought that map was based on artificial islands made by the British to confuse German bomber crews and send them flying in the wrong direction or drop the bombs in the middle of that big ring.

Guess i was wrong.

What an utter and complete noncense! Back in 1941 Göring ordered Luftwaffe to bomb England to squares and circles. Humble airmen of the Luftwaffe had to obey and they did their job as good as they could. This video is the evidence of marvellous success and what Allieds tried to hide as war secret later on. ;)

Half Australian but living in the US atm

Its an issue with the dev team working with the API, not the API itself which is praised as far better then dx10 which it was based off.

If you buy a game advertising dx11 play on the box legally it has to be dx11 when you play it, adding a feature later entails that the advertising has to say that it will be added later or that conditions apply.

Otherwise its false advertising, irrespective of the product.

It says DX9.

http://il2sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-o...ion/index.aspx

It says this:-

New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.

and also this:-

Advanced physics – wind, lift, turbulences, rain, fog… Feel the air rush on your wings as you push your aircraft to the limits in epic dogfights. See your fuselage torn to pieces while every single enemy bullets ballistic and damages is calculated.

DVD-ROM required hardware ?
 

DVD-ROM, those are getting hard to find in pre-built computers. Everyone I've seen, or even most build-to-order ones don't offer drives except RW burners. Hope this isn't a problem, my current one DVD-ROM is basically dead, (drawer won't open) the other two optical drives are DVD-RW drives.....

Very cute :)

What the sam hell is CLOD Tree?

It's all true.DX 11 was not cancelled but delayed and it will have advanced physics.
Dynamic weather was delayed because it's pointless to launch now if no PC it's capable to run it now.
Trust me we will have a lot of new features to discover at launch,enough to make us all happy.
The missing ones we will get in later updates.

Hello Ibuchele,

Is your statement a wish of yours, or do you have inside information ? :rolleyes:

Salute !

No need to be ironic.I'm guessing,of course,based on Oleg's statement about the new engine.
Yes,I admire and believe on the staff capabilities.
And please , don't call me a fanboy.
It's childish.Professional respect is not a demerit for anybody.

DX 11 may be and probably is better than DX 10, but that doesn't mean its without faults. The developer actually using DX11 found the API unstable in manor he was trying to apply it. This could mean a DX11 code problem, a COD code problem, or a mix of the two. Whatever the problem I'm sure it will be worked out at some point.

It may be false advertising but it pales when compared to Microsoft advertising. I could care less as the developer has a history of supporting their products and DX11 will be available in COD at some point.

The weather engine is shipping with the game and can be used at your own risk...maybe the first up-date will have the dx11 cure:grin:

The DX11 cure will be a long long time coming.

I for one couldn't care less of DX11. I will look at the overall game experience. At any rate, even after DX11 implementation, someone will always find something missing ... DX11½, DX12, and so on.

I met this sort of people since kindergarten, destroying sand castles done by others because they werent perfect enough ... but incapable of producing a miserable hole in the sand by their own ! LOL! :D ---- I will try and enjoy what we will get ----


Of course any reference to anything resembling actual forumers is purely coincidence ...


Cheers,
6S.Insuber

So when will people have Cliffs Of Dover in Russia and Europe?

Thanks Wanderfalke

Ibuchele,

1-I did not call you a " fanboy".
2-My question was polite and respectful.
3-My question is not "childish" in regard of your statement :

"Trust me we will have a lot of new features to discover at launch,enough to make us all happy.
The missing ones we will get in later updates."

"Trust me".... What does it mean for you if someone says " trust me" ? That he is guessing ?
Wouldn't you think that this person knows something you don't but can't tell as in NDA? Beta tester maybe ? You seem pretty sure of the outcome here...
So don't be surprised if you are indeed called a fanboy after this kind of reply of yours...Humor and good temper...? What was childish you said ?

Salute !

They are the little known channel atolls...some others:

http://www.oceandots.com/pacific/samoa/i/013-66000.jpg

http://my-blackberry.net/wallpapers/...New_Guinea.jpg

Russia 24.3 at 19:00 in selectec retail stores ;)

So that means T minus 1.5 hours.... 1.49.... 1.48...

No playing before 00:00

Nope you can activate you game at 19:00... search Nike-it post.

according to my post at 00:00;)

See ... ;)

00:00 that's 22:00 in Germany, so i might get to watch some videos on the 24th :cool:

Damm, you could have lied ;)