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-   -   Friday 2009-10-23 Screenshots Update discussion thread (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=10702)

philip.ed 10-28-2009 11:26 AM
That's a good question kom. It would also beg the question of whether, when a pilot is shot down, they will be able to make their way back to base. I'm not asking for SoW to include 1st person elements (i know we'd ask to much to have to ability for a luftwaffe pilot to shoot his way back to Germany) but it would be nice for the player to have a bond with their character and the ability to create a history, so if you were playing a SP-campaign for the RAF, if you were shot down near to France, you may be picked up by the Germans and it could be the end of the war for you. On the other hand, if SoW was really successful and there were add-on packs, it would be cool to have the feature when the allies liberated france for the player to be able to get back to his squadron and fight again ;)

Oleg, will OTU's be modelled in SoW? Could the player have the option to retire to one after the Battle of Britain, or train in one beforehand? :D

Oleg Maddox 10-28-2009 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 115284)
Ok, thanks for that oleg ;)

1. Oleg, have you seen the 'real-environment' addon for FSX? Basically it adds clouds which can change forms etc Would something like this be implemented into SoW?

2. Also, ddn't you once say that SoW could (in the future) be a basis for all upcoming flight-sims, so that there may be a chance it could have civilian add-ons etc...? ;)
1. We have even air streams modeled near/in clouds, near different surfaces, etc
I can't name it as a real-envirounment, but almost sure we model more things.

2. Civilian are possible now. But third pary will need also to make nvigation and radio call system for civilan planes for our sim. For this part the source code will be open.
So I think first time we will see some sport civilian aircraft from third party... :)

SlipBall 10-28-2009 11:27 AM
I'm very excited about the multiplayer news as well. The full time running great war would be awesome...will be fun to watch my beloved 109 change and weather, over long time of the war:grin:

philip.ed 10-28-2009 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115291)
1. We have even air streams modeled near/in clouds, near different surfaces, etc
I can't name it as a real-envirounment, but almost sure we model more things.

2. Civilian are possible now. But third pary will need also to make nvigation and radio call system for civilan planes for our sim. For this part the source code will be open.
So I think first time we will see some sport civilian aircraft from third party... :)
Great news, thanks. :P

KOM.Nausicaa 10-28-2009 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 115290)
That's a good question kom. It would also beg the question of whether, when a pilot is shot down, they will be able to make their way back to base. I'm not asking for SoW to include 1st person elements (i know we'd ask to much to have to ability for a luftwaffe pilot to shoot his way back to Germany) but it would be nice for the player to have a bond with their character and the ability to create a history, so if you were playing a SP-campaign for the RAF, if you were shot down near to France, you may be picked up by the Germans and it could be the end of the war for you. On the other hand, if SoW was really successful and there were add-on packs, it would be cool to have the feature when the allies liberated france for the player to be able to get back to his squadron and fight again ;)

Oleg, will OTU's be modelled in SoW? Could the player have the option to retire to one after the Battle of Britain, or train in one beforehand? :D
here is information and pictures of the Luftwaffe rescue buoy:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...scue-buoy.html

philip.ed 10-28-2009 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa (Post 115295)
here is information and pictures of the Luftwaffe rescue buoy:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...scue-buoy.html
That's really interesting. Is there any evidence of them being straffed or bombed by the RAF (or even coastal command)?

KOM.Nausicaa 10-28-2009 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 115297)
That's really interesting. Is there any evidence of them being straffed or bombed by the RAF (or even coastal command)?
I don't know, and I don't know what happened to them during later years of the war. But quite a few were installed throughout the channel.

Scan from book:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...2006/udet1.jpg


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...2006/udet2.jpg

HFC_Dolphin 10-28-2009 11:51 AM
Since I see that you reply to other issues, besides the screenshots, I'll bump this question.
It would be great to know how DM and the behaviour of damaged planes will change compared to IL-2.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HFC_Dolphin (Post 114274)
I know it has nothing to do with screenshots, but anyway worths asking:
Is the Damage Model ready?
And, will it be complicated so we can "feel" various different "difficult" cases in getting back home when hit?

Thanks,

philip.ed 10-28-2009 11:51 AM
Great info, thanks.

I think that one of the things we have to consider, and that oleg had hinted at, is that no-matter if all of the stuff makes it into the sim; there is always the chance that it will via third party addons ;)

Feuerfalke 10-28-2009 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115291)
1. We have even air streams modeled near/in clouds, near different surfaces, etc
I can't name it as a real-envirounment, but almost sure we model more things.

2. Civilian are possible now. But third pary will need also to make nvigation and radio call system for civilan planes for our sim. For this part the source code will be open.
So I think first time we will see some sport civilian aircraft from third party... :)
Now that brings some new perspectives for the IL2-airracing-community :cool:

Oleg Maddox 10-28-2009 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa (Post 115287)
Hello Oleg,

this is a minor thing and not really important, I realize. But still I was curious about it:
The Luftwaffe installed at one point little floating metal pontons/islands throughout the channel in an attempt to keep the losses down of pilots in water. The idea was to get to a ponton so that you could wait there to be rescued by water plane or friendly ship.
Did you know this and have you thought of modelling them?

Not important feature I know, but was curious to ask.
I didn't know it. However we did special aircraft, that was in service over channel especially for this purpose - save the shot down pilots from the water.
And if everything will be of with all other things then we may see in BoB how it works for a single gameplay.

Oleg Maddox 10-28-2009 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feuerfalke (Post 115305)
Now that brings some new perspectives for the IL2-airracing-community :cool:
Yes, I was thinking about it too... but don't like to pay licence for Red Bull...
So it is possible, but by third parties. Why not, if it is possible in the game?

Oleg Maddox 10-28-2009 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFC_Dolphin (Post 115300)
Since I see that you reply to other issues, besides the screenshots, I'll bump this question.
It would be great to know how DM and the behaviour of damaged planes will change compared to IL-2.
When I will begin to show damage. It will be better to tell with the samples.

AdMan 10-28-2009 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115166)
I think we was need to show something... because people was too many times asking.
And I hope many clever people were able to see what we have already in our hands and may understand how it will be in future.
Yes, I understand and thank you for the update and especially for this thread.

Is there anything you can tell us about what is planned or in development as far as the user interface and game features? Now that the IL-2 brand is on console and flight sims in general are gaining popularity again there will likely be many newcomers to SoW and the genre, a major criticism of IL-2 was it's presentation and learning curve that comes with the genre in general. Is there any plans to include some kind of in-game training or training mode? Perhaps a flight school that will teach new pilots the basics of aviation and the planes they will be flying? I guess this also includes how single player missions will be presented.

I understand if it's to early to give any answers, but anything new would be great.

JVM 10-28-2009 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115268)
I think most will be possible, including Himalayas itself.
But probably that will do third party.
Our goal to make the good basis for the future upgrades and changes, including best work from third parties. It is more heavy task than to make just single one season/christmas game.

In this point of view MS FS reached great result with third parties. And instead, shown degradation with the MS CFS with third partie's chaos. Our goal - to learn experience of both MS sim series and our own experience with Il-2 series and to make the system that will be long life-able with the great and right support from third parties... which would not damage fair online gameplay without cheating. So some control from our side we will keep of course.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply...we are a long way of talking the screenshots themselves, aren't we? Thanks again for accepting to deviate so much from your initial intentions!

JVM

ZaltysZ 10-28-2009 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115307)
I didn't know it. However we did special aircraft, that was in service over channel especially for this purpose - save the shot down pilots from the water.
And if everything will be of with all other things then we may see in BoB how it works for a single gameplay.
Would be very nice if that airplane was flyable by players and they could rescue other pilots. Not every person can be combatant in flight sims like this. I personally know few people who like just to fly around, because combat is too difficult to them and so, rescue/transport planes would be opportunity for them to do something "useful" in multiplayer.

Bloblast 10-28-2009 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115307)
I didn't know it. However we did special aircraft, that was in service over channel especially for this purpose - save the shot down pilots from the water.
And if everything will be of with all other things then we may see in BoB how it works for a single gameplay.

Yes see picture attached, would be cool to have them:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/bloblast/udet1.jpg

Darkbluesky 10-28-2009 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaltysZ (Post 115318)
Would be very nice if that airplane was flyable by players and they could rescue other pilots. Not every person can be combatant in flight sims like this. I personally know few people who like just to fly around, because combat is too difficult to them and so, rescue/transport planes would be opportunity for them to do something "useful" in multiplayer.
IMO, that is a VERY good idea. I like it, no!, I love that idea!, and if it could be done, that would increase the feeling of being part of a team much, much more than only being "one more" of an squadron.

Personally, if I was a downed pilot, knowing that I depend on some real guy to rescue me (or not), would make me feel more like being part of a "real" world, and more respectful with other people/colleagues...

empeck 10-28-2009 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115291)
Civilian are possible now. But third pary will need also to make nvigation and radio call system for civilan planes for our sim. For this part the source code will be open.
So I think first time we will see some sport civilian aircraft from third party... :)
Cool!

I have two questions (as FSX 3rd party developer ;) ).

1. Will turboprop aircraft be supported?

2. Will 3rd party devs be able to make new maps?

FAE_Cazador 10-28-2009 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkbluesky (Post 115321)
IMO, that is a VERY good idea. I like it, no!, I love that idea!, and if it could be done, that would increase the feeling of being part of a team much, much more than only being "one more" of an squadron.

Personally, if I was a downed pilot, knowing that I depend on some real guy to rescue me (or not), would make me feel more like being part of a "real" world, and more respectful with other people/colleagues...
I just read in the book "KG200 the most secret german unit" about one pilot of german Dornier Do-24 from a "Seenotstaffel" who had saved more than 90 lives of german pilots from the sea, by the end of the year. He is really a great Hero ! Much more than others having taken hundreds of enemy lives , even if it was in the name of King and Country.....

Unfortunately he died in a senseless suicide attack to the russian bridges across the Oder and Neisse rivers in 1945, with his full of explosives Do-24. But this is another story.

Sea Rescue missions, as well as cargo missions in C-47/Ju-52or dropping agents or weapons to Maquis in Lysander, would give a really new approach to what is flight simulation....

jocko417 10-28-2009 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115149)
Maybe some part didn't have it, however in manufacture design description it is present for MKI and up. It is probably the same thing like in SU with aviation - by manufacture design description all aircraft had radio station, however in reality many of then hadn't in 1941 due to lack of details or due to fact that some pilots removed it especially (both things were present)
We can't make so many small diffences for each period of war or life of the plane in one squadron. Say in case of radio call we would need to make way more complex system of radio chatter code... But we need universal system for the whole period of war... Such contradictions some time very hard to solve. Just for example.

For the spitfires as I recall we did two types of proppeller and pitch regulation. This is possible and must be, becasue type of prop changes the behavior of aircraft at climb, acceleration and as a result - in dogfight.
Such things are very important for the flight and as a result for the gameplay. We try to go by this way at first learning experience of Il-2 gameplay.
Thanks for your quick reply Oleg, to avoid any confusion I'll restate my original intent as simply as possible: I don't believe ANY Spits should have stiffeners over the wheel wells, circa 1940. They were added as modification 532 (dated July 16 1942) and were only a temporary measure until they started using thicker panels over the wheel wells during wing skin construction. Any surviving Mk I airframes you see today that have the stiffeners would have had them added two years after the BoB.

Also, I don't think the majority of Spits had gun barrels that protruded from the gun ports during the BoB, they had been replaced with a shorter barreled version that allowed the ports to be taped over, due to lack of gun heating on early Spitfires. Any photos I've seen of Spits with the longer barrels are all pre-war photos.

FAE_Cazador 10-28-2009 01:11 PM
I would add also Recon Missions, and according to this:

Might be the possibility of simulate taking picture shots from a Recon Plane over the target, and have them shown?

Like if you took a PrintScreen, but of course looking down like in a bombsight. Imagine you take the Bombing Sight from IL-2, you retire the numbers and circles and simulate a photo camera visor (sorry I don't know the correct english words ), and press a key for a screen shot, being stored in your computer , and able to be sent later to your mates/headquarters, and depending of the success of the mission, to produce an influence in further missions of the campaign.

We do it now very roughly in the On Line campaigns like AirWar, just dropping smoke from planes (T-Key) when flying over the target, to simulate taking pictures. Then, from the report of the mission, a parser program calculates the distance from these smoke points to the target and situates more or less ground objetives there for the next bombing missions to do.

Remember that not only ex-bomber planes were used for Recon, there were Spits, P-38, etc Recon versions.

What can not be expected from the fantastic SOW engine, coming from an expert Photographer like you ! Lets call this Air Camera "Olegmatic" ! :) :)

Oleg Maddox 10-28-2009 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by empeck (Post 115326)
Cool!

I have two questions (as FSX 3rd party developer ;) ).

1. Will turboprop aircraft be supported?

2. Will 3rd party devs be able to make new maps?
1. With the release - no turboprop engines. But in future - yes, possible.
2. Yes, but small size. Big size maps - license or we will do ourselves for our puposes. Its our brad for the next title. Because I know what all will do.

|ZUTI| 10-28-2009 01:39 PM
Hey Oleg. In retrospect to your last answer about maps. Can you perhaps let us know what small means? The size limit. If you have already decided, that is.

Thank you once more.

csThor 10-28-2009 01:40 PM
No full-fleshed offline campaign? :sad: :cry:

AdMan 10-28-2009 01:42 PM
anyone know what the vehicle in grab0113 is?

6S.Manu 10-28-2009 01:45 PM
WoW!

Thanks Oleg to be still here. I don't know if you missed my questions because you can't answer now, but I was afraid to reask the same thing... but since this is now a kind of chat (really appreciated!) I ask again:

1) Dots' system: the planes' camos were made to protect the plane from above enemies, but also from below (skyblue camo under the wings). Now in IL2 this is a great problem for the pilots who are searching for contacts below, since these can't be see clearly (try against hurricanes...) but instead you are a big black dot on the sky if they look at you.

Usually they could see planes above only by the reflection of the sun on their lucid surfaces (like on the 110's screenshot).

Have you resolved this "problem"?

2) Is doppler effect working now?
Is it possible to go close at 6 o'clock of an enemy without alerting him with your engine? He should lightly listen to our engine only when we pass in front of him or at his side (he has a working engine at 50cm in front of him..)

Thanks again.

empeck 10-28-2009 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115332)
1. With the release - no turboprop engines. But in future - yes, possible.
2. Yes, but small size. Big size maps - license or we will do ourselves for our puposes. Its our brad for the next title. Because I know what all will do.
Thanks for replies. Do you already know how big is small map?

ChrisDNT 10-28-2009 01:52 PM
Two new (at least to me) screenshots here...

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showt...760#post972760

Even if the ground and houses textures are still WIP, a photographer'eye will immediately acknowledge the photorealistic 3D potential of the render engine !

ChrisDNT 10-28-2009 02:00 PM
@Oleg, Luthier or the dev team : thinking of the game textures, has anybody ever thought (of course, if it is technically possible) to paint the textures with dozen of millions of polys with softwares like ZBrush or 3D Coat and then bake them on the objects with a simple color map ? If this can be used for dragoon skin or troll heads, it could perhaps be used too for fields, cliffs or houses ?


http://images.google.com/images?q=zb...ed=0CCwQsAQwBA

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wi

HB252 10-28-2009 02:02 PM
Hi very good work.

I got a simply question: and the pilots?

In the shots they arent there. why?

And other question: in game there are ground personal o blaksmen (luftwaffe)?

Thanx for hard work.

F16_Petter 10-28-2009 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115151)
2. Possible. Even to start separate gasoline engine of air compessor for the brakes with exhaust of gazes under the pilot seat in Italian bomber posssible... However when I saw that it was done already by programmer, I said for what? Do you think somebody will use it or even know about such a feature of Br.20? His answer was - its fan and crazy! Then I told and how we will model the bad feel of crew due to exhaust gazes in a cockpit? :)

I was thinking it could be useful for other airplanes in future, as I understand the SoW engine will be used for future releases other than Battle of Britain.
(If I understood you correct earlier in other interviews)
For an example...
Lets say the P51 has ability to select what tank to empty first and it changes weight and balance (performance and stability) of the aircraft, I do not know to what degree these things are modelled in the SoW flight model but it was just an idea. There are other examples of aircraft that you wanted fuel in the wings for as long time as possible and center or auxilary tanks were emptied first. Also vice versa situations existed.

Not all aircraft featured self sealing fuel tanks, so some aircraft that get fuel leak could use this feature to select leaking tank as main fuel source to minimize fuel spill.

Again, I do not know what aircraft are being included in BoB or other sim from you, its just an idea for the future.

Thank you for your quick response.

Dano 10-28-2009 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDNT (Post 115354)
@Oleg, Luthier or the dev team : thinking of the game textures, has anybody ever thought (of course, if it is technically possible) to paint the textures with dozen of millions of polys with softwares like ZBrush or 3D Coat and then bake them on the objects with a simple color map ? If this can be used for dragoon skin or troll heads, it could perhaps be used too for fields, cliffs or houses ?


http://images.google.com/images?q=zb...ed=0CCwQsAQwBA

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Loving the sun glints off the canopy, should make spotting aircraft a lot easier depending on your position :)

6S.Manu 10-28-2009 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by F16_Petter (Post 115359)
I was thinking it could be useful for other airplanes in future, as I understand the SoW engine will be used for future releases other than Battle of Britain.
Tempest? :D

Your programmer is right Oleg, we fans are crazy!!!

Poisoning, freezing... we want it all.

AdMan 10-28-2009 02:24 PM
Oleg, one more question. Can I ask for a comment on how you feel about the way shadows are casting onto the grass textures and how close the screen shots of the grass shadows are to the final. I believe I heard before you mentioned the grass will interact with wind, correct? If so, I'd imagine this has presented a certain challenge as far as ray-traced shadows on the grass.

Thanks

zakkandrachoff 10-28-2009 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDNT (Post 115347)
Two new (at least to me) screenshots here...

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showt...760#post972760

Even if the ground and houses textures are still WIP, a photographer'eye will immediately acknowledge the photorealistic 3D potential of the render engine !
christ, this is a amazing found! absolutly nice. Nissi Stuka. Oleg don´t need change anithing! is perfect, threes, terrain, very nice.:cool:

http://i80.servimg.com/u/f80/12/20/20/81/grab_010.jpg

http://i80.servimg.com/u/f80/12/20/20/81/grab_011.jpg

Buth I only Hope is C1 don´t puth only internet playable game like rise of flight:(. I don´t have all the time internet...:(. Put all anti pirate passwords script or wathever, buth dont puh only internet game, pls.

akdavis 10-28-2009 03:16 PM
Hi Oleg. Great to see these progress images. Very exciting! I have a few small questions:

1. I see right side "messages" text are still present (although maybe this is for development only). Will there be an option to turn off "kill" messages like "enemy tank destroyed" (which I find to be an immersion killer), while retaining engine management messages like throttle percentages (which I find necessary due to lack of tactile feedback in a sim)?

2. Will credit be given for damaging but not destroying ships, bridges and other important targets that might take multiple sorties to destroy?

Reisman 10-28-2009 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDNT (Post 115347)
Two new (at least to me) screenshots here...

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showt...760#post972760

Even if the ground and houses textures are still WIP, a photographer'eye will immediately acknowledge the photorealistic 3D potential of the render engine !
Now THOSE are great shots - photo-realistic plane and faithful colors, my slight disappointment with the original batch of screens is now gone for good... :)

13th Hsqn Protos 10-28-2009 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115239)
Really my thoughts about campaign now changed. I don't think anymore that single play campaign is so importnat thing in a modern fligth sim (or speaking common - in any game). It doesn't means we stop it. It measn that we will try to put more gameplay features into online modes... and all of them will be based on the special BATTLE ENGINE that we are almost finished in development (with the possibility to increase features in future) its a complex system that allow to get the modes of gameplay from the only one universal gameplay engine in which are present elements of many known types of online and single gameplay of very different games. Just for example we may use it for deathmatch like in shooter, of for constant cooperative play... Constant cooperative gameplay means that in single play we may use it just for one gamer... How this mode (single play) will looks in final - I don't know 100%. We know what should be. But I wont say everything now. Already told too much about online :)

However simple Il-2 style dogfight we will keep for novices and their trainings ;)
But I thin bomber there also will be playable as multicrew. Don't know if we will keep the name for this as dogfight.... :)

Everything I told here in code is ready as alpha, except sigle play campaign based on this code. We will begin tunings of this code when we will have way more objects implemented in the sim.
S~! Oleg,

As promised Sir, no questions till next update ..... but I am compelled to make small comment.

This has got to be the most important post you have made about gameplay and engine objectives and overall game ethos in several years.

I have been screaming at poor Dimitry (CrazyIvan)-he screams back :)) about this for years now ........ May your online war and its tools be blessed by the Patriarch !

Please excuse me sir, I must go and cry from happiness now.....


* Cant wait till next summer

Bloblast 10-28-2009 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDNT (Post 115347)
Two new (at least to me) screenshots here...

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showt...760#post972760

Even if the ground and houses textures are still WIP, a photographer'eye will immediately acknowledge the photorealistic 3D potential of the render engine !
Stunning pictures!
The sun glares on the plane is fantastic. Ground looks fanatastic as well. I see similarities with the Slovakia map in IL-2, which I like. Good job.

SlipBall 10-28-2009 05:36 PM
Yes beautifull looking map...the farm field looks so real aswell, I hope that the objects list has a few items to place in backyards and fields

Feuerfalke 10-28-2009 05:47 PM
You call this an early alpha primarily for technical aspects? O-M-G!

:shock:

AdMan 10-28-2009 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakkandrachoff (Post 115385)
christ, this is a amazing found! absolutly nice. Nissi Stuka. Oleg don´t need change anithing! is perfect, threes, terrain, very nice.:cool:

Buth I only Hope is C1 don´t puth only internet playable game like rise of flight:(. I don´t have all the time internet...:(. Put all anti pirate passwords script or wathever, buth dont puh only internet game, pls.
looks pretty good, I think the terrain will look even better when completed.

furbs 10-28-2009 06:32 PM
now them 2 screen shots are stunning!

Lucas_From_Hell 10-28-2009 06:38 PM
O-M-F-G!!

After looking at these last screenshots, I don't think I'll like the game...

The thing is, I'm not sure if I could shoot these aircraft... It would be a crime to even scratch them, in the way they are modelled :-P.

Absoluteley great work. The sun reflecting on the cockpit glass, looks perfect. The terrain looks better. And you guys still say it's not even close to what it will look, and it will be much improved :shock:?!

Looking foward to next friday already :grin:!

JG4_Helofly 10-28-2009 06:54 PM
Incredible pictures! If you didn't know it, you would think these screenshots of the planes are real photos.

Just one question if I may:
What about the human physical factor in SOW? Will pilots get tired when exposed to high g forces or will it still be possible to fly extrem evasive manoeuvres for hours?

Thanks for the great work!

Forgottenfighter 10-28-2009 06:59 PM
Quote:
The thing is, I'm not sure if I could shoot these aircraft... It would be a crime to even scratch them, in the way they are modelled
Yes, the planes are so perfect you will have to model pilots, so we can land, get out, polish our windshields and clean off any dirt :grin:

philip.ed 10-28-2009 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgottenfighter (Post 115512)
Yes, the planes are so perfect you will have to model pilots, so we can land, get out, polish our windshields and clean off any dirt :grin:
Isn't that what the erks are for? or don't yo trust them? :D

WOuldn't it be cool to land and have the airmen run over to your plane and guide it to your spot, or to even land with a smoking engine and have a fire-truck rush to the scene....:D

I need to stop dreaming! ;)

flyingbullseye 10-28-2009 07:47 PM
Oleg another question about the campaign, sorry if I missed this with all the replies.

Is there any chance that you are or may think about working with a third party team such as Diadalus team or other you have contact with to create the offline campaign in order to save time and put more of your focus towards other aspects of the sim?

Excellent job answering all the questions the last few days, it speaks volumes of your dedication to the sim and the community.

Flyingbullseye

Dano 10-28-2009 07:55 PM
Just noticed that the prop is visible in those two shots as well :)

SlipBall 10-28-2009 08:10 PM
Another interesting thing about this thread, is that Oleg is here every day talking to us, for hours at a time...the game must have progressed quite a bit and afforded him more free time

proton45 10-28-2009 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 115542)
Another interesting thing about this thread, is that Oleg is here every day talking to us, for hours at a time...the game must have progressed quite a bit and afforded him more free time
...would be nice. :)

yogy 10-28-2009 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csThor (Post 115335)
No full-fleshed offline campaign? :sad: :cry:
Christian, you misunderstood it: The Singleplayer will be there, but as a "Multiplayer with only one player".

Example: Look at DCG today: Multiplayer(Dogfight) is based on Offline, so it has certain disadvatages. This is due to IL2 basically being a singleplayer game. In future, playing offline will be like having a Multiplayer-Game with all planes controlled by AI. So, I guess no big differnce for someone who always plays alone.

Baron 10-28-2009 08:39 PM
This is how is SHOULD be, no matter how many times u come to this forum in a day there is allways somethimg new about SoW. Info on game, screenshots....movies. "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" (joking, i know its sometime of before that happens) :)


Love the new screenshots btw.


P.S The two pics showing the oildrums and truck, can somone confirm its not just somone on the net altering colors in PS or something.

proton45 10-28-2009 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron (Post 115561)
P.S The two pics showing the oildrums and truck, can somone confirm its not just somone on the net altering colors in PS or something.

Have you been following the up-date's Oleg has been posting, http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...2040 ...unless someone is impersonating Oleg (and very well) I think we can safely assume that Oleg is posting the "real thing"...

Baron 10-28-2009 10:02 PM
Sry, confused the forums, i was talking about theese: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...5211050008/p/1 (close to the bottom of the page.)


Quite differant colors i would say. ( grab0105 and grab0112 in Olegs update)


Apparently from a russian site.



Just wondering, not trying to start a conspirecy thread ;)


Gut feeling tells me they are fake, the colors i mean. On the other hand, the russians get to see things before we do ;)

Dano 10-28-2009 10:15 PM
They've been in Photoshop so it certainly looks like they're just edited versions, but it does give a good comparison of what is possible with just hue, saturation and colour settings, let alone all the light parameters and other graphics engine tweaks available to Oleg and co.

Baron 10-28-2009 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano (Post 115572)
They've been in Photoshop so it certainly looks like they're just edited versions, but it does give a good comparison of what is possible with just hue, saturation and colour settings, let alone all the light parameters and other graphics engine tweaks available to Oleg and co.

Yes it does and i think getting it as close to "right" as possible from the start is very important compared to IL2 as we wont be able (as i understand it) to change those settings on the screen ourselfes the same way we can in IL2, due to dynamic lighting and so on, without messing somethingelse up (making it look wrong)

Not hard to imagine how much work it really is.

KOM.Nausicaa 10-28-2009 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 115542)
Another interesting thing about this thread, is that Oleg is here every day talking to us, for hours at a time...the game must have progressed quite a bit and afforded him more free time
I dont think he has free time at all - he is just gentle making it up for the long period of silence.

luthier 10-29-2009 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano (Post 115572)
They've been in Photoshop so it certainly looks like they're just edited versions, but it does give a good comparison of what is possible with just hue, saturation and colour settings, let alone all the light parameters and other graphics engine tweaks available to Oleg and co.
If you'll notice, it's not an in-game screenshot, but a cropped screenshot of a desktop with BoB running in a window. That's why it went through Photoshop, because the person who took the screenshot didn't exactly want you to read the game code in the other window. The shot wasn't modified in any other way. You're seeing WIP terrain as it progressed since last Friday. Changed lighting, updated shaders, modified terrain textures, different HDR presets, etc.

That's not final either, there's still a lot more of work to be done. But I'm glad you guys like the progress.

Feuerfalke 10-29-2009 05:49 AM
I'd like to add, that all the screenshots we saw look like they were made via windows-screenshot (CTRL-PRINT). You can sometimes see parts of the open window.

It's a bit naive to think the first thing they implemented was an ingame-screenshot-function that catches HDR-effects as well, just to give us some perfectly "unedited" screenshots. ;)

Oleg Maddox 10-29-2009 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luthier (Post 115622)
If you'll notice, it's not an in-game screenshot, but a cropped screenshot of a desktop with BoB running in a window. That's why it went through Photoshop, because the person who took the screenshot didn't exactly want you to read the game code in the other window. The shot wasn't modified in any other way. You're seeing WIP terrain as it progressed since last Friday. Changed lighting, updated shaders, modified terrain textures, different HDR presets, etc.

That's not final either, there's still a lot more of work to be done. But I'm glad you guys like the progress.
I would add here.

I never post screenshots in dev updates with something corrected or painted over the image. NEVER. they can be cropped in editor like that Bf110, but not edited in any way.

Oleg Maddox 10-29-2009 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 115542)
Another interesting thing about this thread, is that Oleg is here every day talking to us, for hours at a time...the game must have progressed quite a bit and afforded him more free time
Simply Luthier (Ilya Shevchenko) is here now in our office in Moscow. And help us very much in many items of development control. We didn't find here in Moscow any other guy, that would be so helpful... so we invited Ilya from USA. It seems he like it :) However it is hard for him to be so far from his family in USA.
And Its why i'm here :)

Ilya is very interested in high quality project... Because our other prject with his own team - Korea - is his dream :)

Simpy I want you all to understand who is Luthier now.

Ok, I'm finishing to read this thread. We will continue in the next separate to other update, that I probably release tomorrow.
Now I'm back to work.

PS. I'm also happy to be back and speaking to all/with all/reading good realistic suggestions, etc.

lep1981 10-29-2009 07:04 AM
Hi Oleg,

Thanks for all your explanations about SOW and the development of the game. For what you've said about the terrain and the rest of the details I think I feel ok myself... a bit more relax even though I'd love to go out NOW and buy SOW lol... but it's ok. You said the that terrain will match the spitfire's cockpit graphic wise, so I speak for myself and maybe for a few more others in this forum, that's garranty enough to expect top notch quality in SOW ;)

Have a great day!

335th_GRSwaty 10-29-2009 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115641)
PS. I'm also happy to be back and speaking to all/with all/reading good realistic suggestions, etc.
Same here!!!
Thank you very much!

13th Hsqn Protos 10-29-2009 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115641)
PS. I'm also happy to be back and speaking to all/with all/reading good realistic suggestions, etc.
We are very happy to have you back as well. This project is turning on final approach and we are all praying for a good landing.

csThor 10-29-2009 07:06 AM
Oleg

Can you ask Ilya if he downloaded the file (I sent him the link yesterday)? It's quite heavy on my tiny webspace so I'd like to have it off ASAP. Thx.

Oleg Maddox 10-29-2009 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csThor (Post 115645)
Oleg

Can you ask Ilya if he downloaded the file (I sent him the link yesterday)? It's quite heavy on my tiny webspace so I'd like to have it off ASAP. Thx.
he is out of office today till Monday.
You can write me with the link, if it is asap.

AdMan 10-29-2009 07:25 AM
The adjusted grabs look great, the shadows on grass look much better imo.

<George> 10-29-2009 07:32 AM
Keep going oleg and thank you,
but make as a favor please,avoid as much as possible the cartoon animations that birds of prey has,try to make it more realistic and sorry if i am wrong but from the pictures that we have seen already the trees are the only deferense from the IL2 game and its ghost trees,the extra lighting and the extra colours i think dont give the feeling of an other level of grafhics.

csThor 10-29-2009 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115646)
he is out of office today till Monday.
You can write me with the link, if it is asap.
Roger, will do.

MrForshter 10-29-2009 08:46 AM
Hello, Oleg!

Planes on given pics are amazing))

Could you please answer if there will be "real" fire in the game? Will it spread around wooden planes? Will there be burning fuel pools on the water and land after plane crash? Fire spreading in towns from building to building etc.

PS: Thanks for il-2)

Dano 10-29-2009 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luthier (Post 115622)
If you'll notice, it's not an in-game screenshot, but a cropped screenshot of a desktop with BoB running in a window. That's why it went through Photoshop, because the person who took the screenshot didn't exactly want you to read the game code in the other window. The shot wasn't modified in any other way. You're seeing WIP terrain as it progressed since last Friday. Changed lighting, updated shaders, modified terrain textures, different HDR presets, etc.

That's not final either, there's still a lot more of work to be done. But I'm glad you guys like the progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 115637)
I would add here.

I never post screenshots in dev updates with something corrected or painted over the image. NEVER. they can be cropped in editor like that Bf110, but not edited in any way.
Sorry I think we're talking about differrent shots here, we weren't talking about the shots with the Stuka, which have me drooling at the mouth btw, it was these two here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW01.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW02.jpg

which apart from the colours are identical to two shots posted by Oleg last Friday but appear to have been edited.

imaca 10-29-2009 09:17 AM
"Eyefinity" support?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapatista (Post 114817)
hi oleg,

but will you support multiple monitors without triplehead2go from matrox ?

with the newer gfx cards we can use 3 or more monitors at the same time, without using a matrox 3H2go. for ex using one big widescreen in the middle, and a smaller 19' or 17' on either side to improve peripheral view (this is an economical way for many of us to add more lcd monitors since many of us now have upgraded to bigger widescreens and still have some older smaller lcd's around, or can buy them on the cheap)

but BoB would need to be able to support that, for ex central 27' monitor = 60 FoV, with a 19' in landscape mode on either side adding 30 FoV for each of those , producing a total of 120 FoV over the 3 monitors side by side.

this is already possible in some current games released in the last 2 years, i hope you allow us this function in BoB as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 114821)
maybe. I put such things in secondary importance, becasue of not so wide distribution.
Just like to add my thanks, for time you have given to this forum Oleg.
Also please be aware of ATI "Eyefinity" multi-monitor tech. Perhaps same as Nvidia? because:
"DisplayPort is actually the enabler behind all of this. Unlike DVI, DisplayPort doesn’t require a dedicated clocking source for each output. So, all of the chips in ATI’s Evergreen...have the capability built-in to drive as many as six DisplayPorts....
Also support may be easy ? because according to ATI website:
"# ATI Eyefinity technology works with games that support non-standard aspect ratios which is required for panning across three displays"
so it soulds like support for large multi-monitor resolution is all you need.

AdMan 10-29-2009 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano (Post 115658)
Sorry I think we're talking about differrent shots here we weren't talking about the shots with the Stuka, which have me drooling at the mouth btw, it was these two here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW01.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW02.jpg

which apart from the colours and smoothing are identical to two shots posted by Oleg last Friday but appear to have been edited.
those look like simple saturation and contrast/brightness values have been adjusted in PS, and taking a closer look the overall image looks too dark

my guess is it was adjusted by someone who would like it to look like BoP...just a guess :)

Feuerfalke 10-29-2009 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano (Post 115658)
Sorry I think we're talking about differrent shots here, we weren't talking about the shots with the Stuka, which have me drooling at the mouth btw, it was these two here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW01.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW02.jpg

which apart from the colours are identical to two shots posted by Oleg last Friday but appear to have been edited.

I think your post was somewhat misleading.

The pictures you are refering to are not the original pictures, but altered and reposted versions. This altering was done by the poster, though, not by Oleg or his team.
So, while you were right that these shots were altered, the context was wrong, as the previous posts you replied to were about the original screenshots that have only been resized and cropped.

Honestly I don't think that the altered version you linked looks any better, especially not for a sunny day.

philip.ed 10-29-2009 10:16 AM
You might be right Ad-man, but for a summertime in here in Britain (especially when looking at the records from 1940) then those fields colours are correct. In 1940 they had one of the hottest summers ever, so realistically not everything should be bright green ;)

ECV56_Guevara 10-29-2009 10:20 AM
Thanks a lot Oleg and Luthier for the feedback.
Another question: What kind of interaction betwen ground units/objects could we expect (i.e. will be Driveable vehicles, human AAA, radar station, ground crew...?)?
thanks in advance

Dano 10-29-2009 10:20 AM
EDIT: Oh wait, I see what I did lol. Sorry all, I should have made that all a lot clearer.

philip.ed 10-29-2009 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECV56_Guevara (Post 115672)
Thanks a lot Oleg and Luthier for the feedback.
Another question: What kind of interaction betwen ground units/objects could we expect (i.e. will be Driveable vehicles, human AAA, radar station, ground crew...?)?
thanks in advance
Lokking back on all the posts, Oleg said SoW won't ship with driveable vehicles but they will be available for third parties to work on ;) This is subject to change though; nothing is 100% certain yet ;)

KOM.Nausicaa 10-29-2009 10:25 AM
I think Oleg made it clear that he is back to work and stopped answering here. He spent three full days non stop on the forums.

ECV56_Guevara 10-29-2009 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa (Post 115675)
I think Oleg made it clear that he is back to work and stopped answering here. He spent three full days non stop on the forums.
Peace man, I didn´t read that, this forum moves so fast!

AdMan 10-29-2009 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 115670)
You might be right Ad-man, but for a summertime in here in Britain (especially when looking at the records from 1940) then those fields colours are correct. In 1940 they had one of the hottest summers ever, so realistically not everything should be bright green ;)
sure, I think we can all agree the grass in those screens is a tad too bright. But the person who adjusted those screens seemed to go a little extreme with the contrast, brightness, and desaturation. It's reminiscent of the styling of BoP - of course realism over style seems to be the philosophy of BoB, like someone said before it's simply too dark for a daylight scene and the washed out colors looks more like an old photo rather than how the eye would see it. the extreme darkness of the shadows makes it look like there is no ambient light. something like this would be a little more believable:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...g?t=1256817632

compared to http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW02.jpg

philip.ed 10-29-2009 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdMan (Post 115681)
sure, I think we can all agree the grass in those screens is a tad too bright. But the person who adjusted those screens seemed to go a little extreme with the contrast, brightness, and desaturation. It's reminiscent of the styling of BoP - of course realism over style seems to be the philosophy of BoB, like someone said before it's simply too dark for a daylight scene and the washed out colors looks more like an old photo rather than how the eye would see it. the extreme darkness of the shadows makes it look like there is no ambient light. something like this would be a little more believable:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...g?t=1256817632

compared to http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.clarke17/SOW02.jpg
That looks great! And it would beg the question of whether changing seasons etc will be modelled in SoW. Or even, if a field was set on fire, it would stay like that in game.

My only gripe with the shots of the grass is that in some places it looks quite high. The field behind is fine because it's a crop field, but the airfields wouldn't have grass that high ;)

Feuerfalke 10-29-2009 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 115689)
That looks great! And it would beg the question of whether changing seasons etc will be modelled in SoW. Or even, if a field was set on fire, it would stay like that in game.
It won't stay like that in game either way, because we are STILL talking about the ALPHA - don't know how many times this has to be said. :confused:

This is what one of the first technical testversion looks like - we're not talking about a release candidate or something. ;)

nearmiss 10-29-2009 12:46 PM
1) It would be nice to see some soldiers in some cockpits,trucks and stuff.

2) Would also like to know if there was some petrol in barrels for proper explosions and fires.

---------------------------

3) What about the power of the .303s? The .303 is nothing like the cannon of the 109-E. Not much kill power in the .303s, which could make it very tough playing on the Brit side.

---------------------------

4) Hope the SOW isn't going to be like the recently released WWI sim (RoF) that is all played online, even single player. There are still large parts of rural America,where broadband is not possible. There are options, i.e, satellite, 3G and 4G in some areas, but the service is too expensive for game playing.

philip.ed 10-29-2009 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feuerfalke (Post 115692)
It won't stay like that in game either way, because we are STILL talking about the ALPHA - don't know how many times this has to be said. :confused:

This is what one of the first technical testversion looks like - we're not talking about a release candidate or something. ;)
No I realise that feurefalke, that was why I said that those re-satureated pictures looked better as it shows what can be done. ;)

philip.ed 10-29-2009 12:53 PM
Nearmiss, you are right about the .303's but they were fairly effective in the Battle of Britain because the luftwaffe weren't using armour plating on all planes at that stage (well, at least the heinkels anyway). As long as a pilot got in close, a good 3-4 second burst could do the job. If anyone has played BoB2 wings of victory then the .303's in that are perfectly recorded. Although, as you said, they weren't that good (I've seen pictures of heinkels which have landed with hundreds of bullet holes from the .303's) they are wrongly recorded in il-2.

Feuerfalke 10-29-2009 01:36 PM
Soldiers? Here you go:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2..._341a_008L.jpg

;)


Since it has been a long time:
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g260/restranger/

philip.ed 10-29-2009 02:03 PM
They do look good; it's nice to see that they are all brothers as well ;)

Lucas_From_Hell 10-29-2009 02:05 PM
Feuerfalke, if I remember, Oleg stated that they would look even better than these ones. I think he said something about they looking like improved versions of Men of War soldiers.

But it was a long time since I read this, so I might be wrong...

Feuerfalke 10-29-2009 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell (Post 115710)
Feuerfalke, if I remember, Oleg stated that they would look even better than these ones. I think he said something about they looking like improved versions of Men of War soldiers.

But it was a long time since I read this, so I might be wrong...
All these screenshots are WIP.

And to my personal experience almost anything looks better, when it's finished than when it's still being worked on. No matter which models and textures will be used, they will most likely look a lot different in the release ;)

AdMan 10-29-2009 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 115689)
That looks great! And it would beg the question of whether changing seasons etc will be modelled in SoW. Or even, if a field was set on fire, it would stay like that in game.

My only gripe with the shots of the grass is that in some places it looks quite high. The field behind is fine because it's a crop field, but the airfields wouldn't have grass that high ;)
Changing seasons would be awesome, especially will grass, trees, etc. I really do hope they make a comprehensive single player/career mode so things like that are possible. Typical multiplayer is usually based on playing on a map for a certain amount of time, then the round ends and go to the next.

I share some concern with grass height but more from the standpoint of how it look s from the air. In this screen some of the long grass kinda looks like green claw marks, like a cat came along and scratched green mark on the screen (if that makes sense) http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/grab0103.jpg

can't really judge it by one still screen, especially if the grass will be moving in the wind, have to wait to see it in action before I critique it.

KOM.Nausicaa 10-29-2009 03:04 PM
Seasons ?...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdMan (Post 115728)
Changing seasons would be awesome, especially will grass, trees, etc. I really do hope they make a comprehensive single player/career mode so things like that are possible.
Mhhh...guys, the BOB was from June to September 1940. Summer. While waiting I recommend to some to read some books about this battle. ;-)

Feuerfalke 10-29-2009 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa (Post 115732)
Mhhh...guys, the BOB was from June to September 1940. Summer. While waiting I recommend to some to read some books about this battle. ;-)
:grin:

Lucas_From_Hell 10-29-2009 03:44 PM
Nausicaa is right about the Battle of Britain. It's in the summer. It would be totally non-sense to see a winter map there.

But considering they might use this map again if any other add-on is focusing on the Channel front, it would be interesting to have one.

On Battle of Britain, well, it would be interesting to see only a slight change, from spring to summer and from summer to autumn.

philip.ed 10-29-2009 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa (Post 115732)
Mhhh...guys, the BOB was from June to September 1940. Summer. While waiting I recommend to some to read some books about this battle. ;-)
Yes, but the weather changed dramatically between those two times. At the start, most days were wet and overcast whilst spetember saw some of the hottest days in years. I'm not sure where you are from, but one would easily see the difference between this in the terrain in Britain; at the start of july (the battle began on the 10 of july, so not in june ;) ) it would be a lot greener for starters and things would be getting browner by september as the grass started to wilt ;) I have read a lot on the Battle, and whilst there wouldn't be much in way of seasons, I suggest you read more on the battle to get a feel for changing weather conditions which would affect the terrain :D

AdMan 10-29-2009 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 115745)
Yes, but the weather changed dramatically between those two times. At the start, most days were wet and overcast whilst spetember saw some of the hottest days in years. I'm not sure where you are from, but one would easily see the difference between this in the terrain in Britain; at the start of july (the battle began on the 10 of july, so not in june ;) ) it would be a lot greener for starters and things would be getting browner by september as the grass started to wilt ;) I have read a lot on the Battle, and whilst there wouldn't be much in way of seasons, I suggest you read more on the battle to get a feel for changing weather conditions which would affect the terrain :D
besides isn't this engine going to expand beyond the BoB? Haven't been following the developemant as closely as others but from what I understand this is the foundation for further expansions like IL-2 was.

AdMan 10-29-2009 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa (Post 115732)
Mhhh...guys, the BOB was from June to September 1940. Summer. While waiting I recommend to some to read some books about this battle. ;-)
Really I just want a kick ass sim to play ;)

Lucas_From_Hell 10-29-2009 04:26 PM
I guess Feuerfalke is very close to be hired by Oleg as his secretary :-P


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