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-   IL-2 Sturmovik (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=98)
-   -   Now see what moding does for a game and company! (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=32150)

csThor 05-30-2012 07:59 AM
Why is a common ground mandatory? As it is there is no cohesion or overt cooperation between the various mod-groups beyond cross-incorporation of some individual mods. And, unless I'm getting senile, any kind of "unification movement" was dead within days of its announcement. Simply put: There is simply no will to unite the various mod groups within the modding scene itself, mostly because different people have different ideas about what to mod and how and of course because people prefer diversity, so there is little to no common ground in that area already. And then come the limitations TD has agreed to observe ... limitations most mod users would surely refuse to accept. Diversity, remember? ;)

The division into a modding camp and a stock camp is a fact of 1946 which cannot be discussed away nor can it be overcome. That genie has been out of its bottle for so long that it simply refuses to go back in ... ;)

Untamo 05-30-2012 10:15 AM
Diversity is good .. or atleast not bad. I for one, have gone with the flow. I have all the mods installed. Or at least all the ones I need. UP for flying on the dogfight servers, HSFX for SEOWs... etc. And about every clean official version of the game as backup.

I really don't understand the "mods kill/divide the community" accusation. People have always been divided across X number of servers (having different difficulty settings etc. attracting certain people and making others go to other servers). Now that the X number of servers use Y number of mods(again, attracting certain people and making others go to other servers) the people are still divided across X number of servers. Those that don't want to use mods, can still find plenty of non-modded servers. I visit them myself from time to time.

As for OP's first post: Have been trying to make time to test DayZ. Sounds like a great mod :)

sniperton 05-30-2012 02:46 PM
"Why is a common ground mandatory?" It is not, but it would be reasonable to find one. In the present situation the average user (like me) profits less from the improvements than he/she could if we take into consideration the total time and work invested in the game by the various groups and individuals. So it should not be a matter of pride, it should be a matter of work economy to have some sort of 'common sense' development strategy. The various parties would not even be required to actively cooperate, only to reflect upon their strengths and weaknesses. I have something like this in mind:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HundertneunGustav (Post 391220)
How that? Let me dream for a moment.
Hmm, maybe TD could focus on the code, the features, the "stuff behind the curtain" while the Modders could bring new content , to make use of the "code behind the curtain".

For example:
Let TD Implement the ability to have 12 prop pitch and 12 power axis per plane.
Let the Modders Make a Plane that has 12 prop engines.
[...]
Let TD implement advanced plane features and malfunctions, failures and Systems (icing on wings, freezing guns and windows, ... the forum is full of stuff like that)
Let the Modders create planes that were well know to suffer from said failures, or put the necessary code into the old planes that have existed for a decade now.
(assymetrical Slats on the 109, de-icing ballons on the american Bomber wings, damaged oxygen systems letting AI gunners die, and AI pilots dive for the deck... your imagination is the limit)

I think such a setup would be ... awesome.
Then it is a Matter to decide whet mods come into the official Updates.

But it aint gonna happen...
:)

csThor 05-30-2012 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniperton (Post 430285)
So it should not be a matter of pride, it should be a matter of work economy to have some sort of 'common sense' development strategy. The various parties would not even be required to actively cooperate, only to reflect upon their strengths and weaknesses.
That, already, would be cooperation. And - if I may say so - I think many modders would fight teeth and nails against any kind of "common development plan" as it would simply take away their total freedom to decide what they want to do.
As for TD we do not see our role in being at the beck and call of the modding community - meaning that we're not just there to incorporate features modders would like to have to make their life easier. Not everyone wishes or has the time to download and install mods and these people are our target audience. So we don't roll out the red carpet for the modders but we don't actively and intentionally interfere with their work and we do incorporate external developments if the makers get in touch with us, if their stuff meets the technical requirements and does not go against the content limitations we agreed to when signing the contract with 1C.

Rot Bourratif 05-30-2012 03:49 PM
Being a noob, I find the sheer number of planes in the stock version of the game daunting as it is: so many A/C to learn how to fly.

Add mods on top of that: all two or three of the A/C you sort of know fly differently! And their opponents fly differently as well!

I just stay away from mods just because it is really adding frustration to an already very steep learning curve...

Speaking for myself only, here, of course.

~S~

sniperton 05-30-2012 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csThor (Post 430303)
I think many modders would fight teeth and nails against any kind of "common development plan" as it would simply take away their total freedom to decide what they want to do [...] we're not just there to incorporate features modders would like to have
I know that human nature and the "mod mentality" cannot be changed. And I'm fine with TD not wishing to be "at the beck and call of the modding community". But as exactly as one of the people you described as TD's target audience, I find that some mod contents would be great to have also in the vanilla game, and all the more so as they are only exchanging old skins for better new skins, old textures for better new textures, and the like. There might be some technical limitations involved, as I hear, but, errr, I'm a bit sceptical about this so far as I see one and the same mission loading faster and running smoother in UP+DBW than in the vanilla game...

Quote:
Originally Posted by csThor (Post 430303)
[...] we do incorporate external developments if the makers get in touch with us, if their stuff meets the technical requirements and does not go against the content limitations we agreed to when signing the contract with 1C.
To sum it up, I would encourage TD to incorporate external developments not only on the initiative of the maker, but to approach all those whose "stuff meets the technical requirements and does not go against the content limitations we agreed to when signing the contract with 1C".

JtD 05-30-2012 05:04 PM
TD is actively approaching certain people with certain projects.

droz 05-30-2012 05:55 PM
absolutely agree with Mastiff. The mods have kept IL2 afloat for well beyond it's natural life.

Jones 05-30-2012 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JtD (Post 430339)
TD is actively approaching certain people with certain projects.
Good!

I want TD to absolutely retain their position the as the "official" custodians of the IL-2 code base. They have done a fantastic job so far and have my full confidence that they will continue in the future. 100% trust can not be bought.

DO NOT under any circumstance cheapen the TD brand!

Bearcat 06-02-2012 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csThor (Post 430190)
Why is a common ground mandatory? As it is there is no cohesion or overt cooperation between the various mod-groups beyond cross-incorporation of some individual mods. And, unless I'm getting senile, any kind of "unification movement" was dead within days of its announcement. Simply put: There is simply no will to unite the various mod groups within the modding scene itself, mostly because different people have different ideas about what to mod and how and of course because people prefer diversity, so there is little to no common ground in that area already. And then come the limitations TD has agreed to observe ... limitations most mod users would surely refuse to accept. Diversity, remember? ;)

The division into a modding camp and a stock camp is a fact of 1946 which cannot be discussed away nor can it be overcome. That genie has been out of its bottle for so long that it simply refuses to go back in ... ;)

I believe that TD has become that common ground.. and as they add more features of it will become more so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones (Post 430371)
I want TD to absolutely retain their position the as the "official" custodians of the IL-2 code base. They have done a fantastic job so far and have my full confidence that they will continue in the future. 100% trust can not be bought.
DO NOT under any circumstance cheapen the TD brand!
Exactly how I feel. If a mod pack goes at odds with what the stock sim is doing I will not use it ...


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