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-   -   Friday 2010-08-06 Dev. update and Discussions (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=15864)

ECV56_Lancelot 08-06-2010 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dali (Post 173809)
if anyone of you is going to notice the exact height of the trees during the flight or even fight, I buy him a pint. At 400 mph you notice details only for fraction of the second, the mind is capable of quick focusing in dynamical environment, then the focus is again quickly widened. You would know exactly what I'm talking about if you were a pilot, because distribution of attention is vital in flying, especialy military. I still remember some tiny details from my low-level flights 20 years ago, like man riding a bike, woman walking across the square and such... but generaly, you more sense the ground bellow than actualy "see" it. The lower you go, the further on the horizon one tends to gaze, because visual clues are disapearing too quickly bellow the plane and mind needs at least some stabile visual clues in the distance to keep the situational aweareness.

Screenshots of course capture the moment and you see all the details.

I think it is more important to enable visual clues than give you 30 types of trees. For me it is much more important to have real 3d tree in Bob, compared to quasi 3d trees in Il-2, which were not adding, but substracting from the feeling of depth and height. Judging from the screenshots from Ilya, I can already see, that the low and mid-level flights will be a real joy, since there are enough visual clues to maintain the field of vision depth.

In this sense, Bob has already fulfiled my "dreams" :)

Well said!

Feuerfalke 08-06-2010 11:47 AM

Well, zaelu, that's the difference between a 2DOF and a 6DOF full geometry cockpit. Maybe you can figure out yourself, which one is easier to render. And even then, you always have an option to increase or decrease level of detail. I don't know what detail level the cockpit is set to - how do you know?


Hopefully the animated crewmen will do their part to stop the dogfighting Bombers as they are common in IL2 - LOL.

ECV56_Lancelot 08-06-2010 11:48 AM

Maybe i´m just to easy to convince, but IMO the terrain on the first screenshot looks excellent.
Beside, now we know we will not have "ghost" gunners and copilot on bombers. Long time ago it was said that we would have "ghost" planes for saving resources and because of all the animations required. Now we can see gunners, is a new adition, and only Maddox Games know what else they have in reserve for us.
Thanks for the update.

barndoor 08-06-2010 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 173803)
Yes, there's the bit of the Channel in the top left corner. The rest is morning fog.

Fantastic - morning fog! Will make landings and takeoffs good!

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 173803)

What's raggedy, do you mean jagged? Yeah, I don't have AA turned on.

Crew members will move, and how! This was actually the first in the series of screenshots showing him move around, but after I took them I realized that it just doesn't have the same effect on static screenshots. It's just so lifelike to see the guy get thrown about by your maneuvers, almost adds a slightly sadistic elements to the game. Make a pinata out of the navigator! Boom, slam, bang! Uh oh, a flat spin.

Yes, jagged, sorry. OK, I understand. Can we see with AA on?!

Wow, am sooooo exited about the crew moovments. Sounds fantastic!!

barndoor

dali 08-06-2010 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaelu (Post 173823)


To all fans here... like me. don't jump on my criticism... is true... i didn't made any sim in my life... but... i just voice a fear that all of us share.

I don't want SoW Battle of Britain to disappoint. I am not easily disappointed... i am not a fan boy of CS that can't adapt at new features and bash the new product as "disappointing" for trivial reasons. I just believe that SoW BoB should kick major arse being so much time in development and some of the image updates from WIP worries me.

In the end... take a look at a promo of current Lock On 2... platinum... an old game... (I picked LO FC2 - DCS BS cause is the other sim I play and cause it's developer (ED) is very close to Maddox.



And for comparison to pics from moded pit by RICHARDO (for free):

well, as far as your "criticism" goes, I can say only this - Bob is still unfinished and as Ilya pointed out several times, he has visual settings set somewhere in the middle, even AA is off. Talking of LO FC2 - I was beta tester for LOMAC, so I know the series quite well. LO FC2 has some amazing details, like perfectly readible service labels on the skin, but is this contributing to the overall feeling? I would say no. If you want eyecandy for screenshots, then details you are describing are of course on the top of the list. If you want something else from the sim, than eye candy is somewhere in the middle of the "desireable features". For instance - inertia modeling in the LO FC series is far, far from something beliveable. One small detail - braking on the ground - there is one old A10 sim called A10 Cuba!, which has that feeling of weight coded much better than LO FC. I haven't seen or tried Bob yet, but judging from that Ilya's video with spit in major role the inertia modeling is far the best I've ever seen in general public simulator so far. I think that Oleg and team have chosen the correct set of goals (at least those they are sharing with us) for their sim. For me the feeling of mass (weight of the airplane) and intertia, correct dynamics of bullets, aerodynamics, weather, field of vision and AI are the most important for combat sim of this kind. Ilya and Oleg are showing us the visual parts only, which is nice, I like to watch Friday updates, but they don't reflect the qualities behind. That rests to be seen in the near future.

Caveman 08-06-2010 12:00 PM

Luthier, Oleg...

It's looking fantastic. Lighting really adds to everything quite nicely. The landscape is really coming together.

I went back to the old Spit Video released a few months back and noticed how well made the cockpits were and how well detailed and real the lighting looked. It's obvious this sim will take the best IL-2 ever was a multiply by 4 or 5.

Excited to see the crew animations too... Can't wait to fly this beast...

Dano 08-06-2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSU (Post 173815)
how your Team make the trees?

i like this way

a photo from a tree, cut out with Alpha
http://www4.pic-upload.de/thumb/06.0...4amxdfnaf1.jpg

two planes (low polygone)
http://www4.pic-upload.de/thumb/06.0...lz517oovkh.jpg

and the low poly tree look good (ok i make it fast)
http://www4.pic-upload.de/thumb/06.0...u5hp4e4rwm.jpg

you need tree photos, please call me i make many pictures.

I utterly detest trees done via this method, they look absolutely awful.

Robert 08-06-2010 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier (Post 173803)
Crew members will move, and how! This was actually the first in the series of screenshots showing him move around, but after I took them I realized that it just doesn't have the same effect on static screenshots. It's just so lifelike to see the guy get thrown about by your maneuvers, almost adds a slightly sadistic elements to the game. Make a pinata out of the navigator! Boom, slam, bang! Uh oh, a flat spin.


Hee hee! Now THAT I can't wait to see.

Blackdog_kt 08-06-2010 12:03 PM

Amazing update! Some issues with trees (scaling, as leaves seem a bit too big compared to building features in the town shot and the "floaty" patches of green) but we all know we can't have perfect visuals without perfect supercomputers.

In fact, looking at it a bit closer it's not so much that the trees are "floating" per se, so i'd say it's not about the lack of trunks. Trees are there, shadows are there for depth perception and there needs to be some FPS optimization too, so i'd say they are as good as can be.

The one bit that sticks out in my eye is the patch of trees visible near the yoke and left rudder pedal through the cockpit glass. Trees in the distance look great and they probably even have a lower LOD detail model, because when viewed from an angle their difference in height and shape gives a sufficient impression of volume. It's only the ones that are viewed at an almost vertical angle that look a bit weird, because the top of the entire tree patch looks like it's the same height, giving the false impression of a flat/2D surface.
Of course, the trees are still 3D and different in size and their closer distance to the player means they use higher detail LODs, so i'm curious as to why. Maybe the upper layer of tree patches in near range LODs just needs a bit more contrast or "jaggednes" to accentuate the feeling of it being a non-uniform surface.

In any case, just like i always say seeing it in motion will be better.

I like details like the chimney smoke a lot, especially if it can be used as a wind indicator for us to make dead-stick landings in the fields after receiving battle damage. With the improved FM and and the dynamic weather knowing which way the wind is blowing will be crucial, especially when emergency landing a damaged plane.
The buildings look great and the fog near the sea is a very nice touch.
Terrain on the whole looks very good to me, despite the debates about the proper shade of green for English grass.

I think that terrain colour in general just has a lot to do with the amount of ambient light and shadowing and the way they affect color perception and in that sense, i find it sufficiently realistic. I mean, on one hand we have people who like WoP-style shadowing and lighting effects on the landscape and on the other we have people who expect to see the same vibrant shade of green in every screenshot, regardless of surrounding weather and light conditions.
I think the terrain we see in the updates is somewhere in the middle between these two extremes and that enforces my belief that it is in fact realistic. We have shading and light effects without them being overdone.

Finally, the aircaft models look great as always, but what really gets my blood pumping is the cockpits and the animated crew members.
I can't wait to "sit" in one, press every button, flick every switch and watch those needles move on the instruments :grin:

As for the first shot, it just looks like something out of a movie, or a wartime photo album. It looks somewhat majestic, but only because there is no gunfire. If there was gunfire coming from that Spit it would simply be scary, sitting in that glass nose and all :grin:
I agree with what's been said that the glass might seem a bit too transparent, but if you look a bit lower and to the right from the nose gun the reflections are apparent. So, i'm guessing that both the lack of reflections in the rest of the cockpit glass and the not-so-green landscape has to do with the fact that there's some moderate cloud cover. Seems that the amount of ambient light and shadows has a wide and profound effect on how everything is diplayed without being overdone, i like that a lot.

Kefirchik 08-06-2010 12:04 PM

Hi Ilia! Nice sceenshots. I want to ask you about lighting inside cockpit. At the screenshot we see aluminum metal without paint. I think? what Aluminum must reflect much more than paint. So on these sceen's we don't see the difference in reflect paint and aluminum. Is it optimization for FPS or still WIP?


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