Class attribute adjustments, AI, location names, Clear Sky...
 

I really got a lot out of reading Ninja2dan's supporting statements for adjusting the Sniper class as he describes. I'd hate to run into you Ninja2dan if you're a car salesman! ;)

In spite of my earlier concerns of having too many attributes per class, reading this proposed update to them makes perfect sense to me. I'd run with it R@S! Looks great to me, and I can't wait to try them out in game. :)

In regards to the AI update that you're incorporating; I know that the main goal is to have militia build up in a sensible and controllable way, but is there any way that you could tweak how the police respond to attacks not intentionally directed at them but are whizzing nearby anyway? I can't tell you the number of times that I've tricked smugglers to open up on me and I'm practically behind a police officer at the time, and it seems no matter how many times the rounds snap past the seams of their uniforms, they NEVER respond to the shooters. On the other hand, if I so much as turn a corner with my weapon at the ready (not even firing!) and there's a police officer there, I get a stern warning, and then a second or two later in Real Time they're "converted" into becoming my enemy. Why's the double standard so huge? :-x Can this be adjusted into something more believable?

In regards to naming the locations that you're porting over from Reloaded... I wish I knew what the locations looked like. I think that a pretty sensible rule of thumb would be: if the location looks grand, name it something majestic. The other sensible rule of thumb would be to use a Spanish-ized name of a Roman Catholic saint. In fact, what would be quite clever is to name them based on a dominant feature of the region. For example, if there's a town near the coastline, you could look up a patron saint of the sea, or against shipwrecks, etc., and name that location after that saint.

If there was a location that was quite foreboding in appearance, you could come up with a back story that the region was once/possibly is cursed, and that region could've been renamed to invoke the power of a saint who was supposedly powerful at destroying witches, blocking curses, etc.

As a former Roman Catholic, I know that there's a saint associated with just about any thing you could imagine.

You could have a lot of fun with this in an intellectual, literary way. Book nerds like me would certainly get a good geeky laugh out of it. :)

To help you out, I found a couple of sites that could ease your searching. The first link is quite strong, as it's already broken down into categories, and the second link has some categories at the bottom of the page that might prove useful. All you'd have to do is find a saint that you think emulates the region, and convert that name into its Spanish counterpart (if it's not already Spanish), and voila(!), a great name that's convincing on a deep level.

Here's the links:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/patron00.htm

http://saints.sqpn.com/

One more point to consider about location names: if in the end you decide to go with the campaign proposal (that I have yet to write!) some of these locations could have been renamed after local war/drug-lords, and some of these guys could be crazy enough to insist that their territory is named after their third wife or favorite dog.

Hey, it's a STRANGE world! :grin:


Now, before I head out to finally get my crack at v.5, I have one more question related to STALKER Clear Sky: I already know that my system can't play it, but I prefer to have hardcopies of my games, and I've found it on sale for $7.00. Is the prequel to STALKER worth buying/playing at that price, especially in light of mods that have surely made important adjustments to it? If I get a strong enough reply, I'll buy it now, and set it aside till I have a rig that can handle it (it shouldn't take too long, maybe within the next decade!).

Alright, now I'm off to v. 5. Report will be up ASAP.

Yours,
Kyle
July 8, 2010
:)

Having been Sniper qualified in the Army and having operational time as a Sniper while serving as an LEO, I'm all too familiar with how snipers work and what their jobs include. We spent a lot of time practicing skills and movements slowly and precisely, making sure not to do anything too fast that might cause attention. The human eye sees movement first, then shape, then color. So a sniper's most important aspect to not being seen/detected is not to move or to move so slowly that the enemy doesn't notice it.

That doesn't mean we're always slow, but it's just how we usually operate. Slow and steady, with every inch of movement planned in advance. If we're doing our jobs correctly, we should be in a position where the enemy never even knows we're there. So we have plenty of time to adjust those optics, control our breathing, and shoot the enemy right between the eyes.

Hauling heavy gear is also part of the job for any combat-based ground soldier. But with the sniper, we drop our heavy loads at a rally prior to moving into our hide area. We then carry only minimal combat load, because the more crap you haul around the bulkier you are and the harder it is to move quietly or not being seen. Having a large 160-pound rucksack on makes it a bit difficult to low-crawl 150m along open terrain trying to get into position.

I think your ideas of skill point assignment sounds good, and look forward to seeing how it plays out.

I just like to help make sure that tactics, techniques, and skill attributes of the real-world operator is described properly. I don't know if anyone else here has military or tactical law enforcement backgrounds, so helping provide knowledge about those jobs could help everyone have a better understanding of how those roles are done in the real world.

Unfortunately, too many games have been jacking up the sniper role because the developers lack actual knowledge or experience about the role and base their information off of highly unrealistic movies, television, and other poorly-made games. R@S is doing an outstanding job of reworking the system, avoiding mistakes that the original dev team made. If he feels that a more realistic approach will benefit the mod, then I'm more than happy to supply the information.


Regarding the new maps, R@S posted a few screenshots of some of them a few days ago. I can't remember which topic it was in, maybe the main BSM Mod topic. I must say, some of those new maps make me drool. The possibilities running through my mind of future scenarios has had me dying to get the game running again.

Thanks for those links Kyle, they'll come in handy:)

I was thinking of "giving" one or two of the new sectors to the Palinero faction and place them in that country. I think that'd even make the vanilla campaign a bit more fun if one chooses that way.

IMHO Clear Sky would be worth buying at that price, the community has added a lot of features and if you only player through SoC once you wont be too upset about them having the same maps. Since I loved SoC I played it several times and knew the maps like the back of my hands. And the frustation of not being able to play Clear Sky when I first bought it made me a bit to judgemental about it, but truth be told, it was still very fun to play.

The game engine calculates how near the player is to his maximum weight when it does the camo/stealth calculations. the less your merc is carrying, the better chance of staying hidded. This is just one example of how the engine uses the different attributes to calculate things, and that's where my gut feeling about sniper and dexterity comes into play. I'm glad that we all agree that the adding of one more class skill might work, will try to impement it for the next test version.

And let this be proof that with a cogent argument I'd be willing to alter my work, even if it ends up a compromise;)

Ninja2dan, how could we tweak this system or utilize it if one were to decide to use the sniper/spotter for this one? (i.e. by, uh... having more leeway with regards to team/squad size. ;) )

For some reason it seems to me that such would help make the "stereotypical" sniper more viable, whereas without a spotter I'd be more likely to go the designated marksman route in-game.

Don't worry, I am aware that the answer is that "SBRS AHOY!" As much as I like CQB weapons personally for fitting my frame better. :P

I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but at first glance it looks like you're asking about using a possible "spotter" role. By somehow tweaking the max squad size, and offering an additional class role as a Spotter that would work alongside the Sniper. Or am I way off?

"Injury" numbers, WEAPONSINFO_ALT, no CTDs!
 

I apologize in the delay to my testing last night, but I can't locate the last officer remaining, and I wanted to eliminate him so that I could rest for 24 hrs., check the bank account (to see if it's working). I don't want to deal with the possibility that if I leave the area and return, that the officers will have repopulated the town, and then I have a whole new firefight to deal with just to check something that should take but a few seconds' worth of time...

So, my report sans what's mentioned above...

First, no CTDs, even after Leveling Up to Level 1. No double video plays, and all in all, I'd have to say that some pretty annoying headaches are gone. THANK YOU! :grin:

You were right in saying that the alternate WEAPONSINFO.ini is more challenging. It seems to me that the weapons are a lot more lethal, and I'm certainly not being as sloppy moving through the area of operations.

Personally, I like it. I'm eager to find out how the weapons higher up on the CGL feel like with this config.


SUGGESTIONS
Is there any way to add a Settings option that would allow us to shutoff the red "Injury" numbers that appear whenever an enemy is shot, or bleeds out due to blood loss? To me, I don't want to see that info, and it's hard to ignore it and then later exploit it by gaming the system. I'd rather not see the numbers, but rather respond to what my avatars' eyes are telling me in order to plan my tactical response.


Is there any way to have the Stealth skill appear on the very first screen so that we could invest our initial 50 points into it right away?

What would happen if we didn't spend our 50 points on that screen; would we be able to spend them through the Kill Book in-game when we get to setup our Parameters?

Of course, we could just tryout my earlier recommendations about setting all Parameters and Skills to "0," have a little note that we have to adjust in-game through the Kill Book, and perhaps avoid some frustration. But that's just me. ;)


I have to echo the request to increase the number of comrades we can have in our squad. In the Bloody Money mod for BE5, the number was increased to 9 (which would better reflect the element-size of SF units), although it was a bit of a chore to use, because these mercs were only accessible by "targeting" them with the mouse. Of course, it'd be ideal to not only increase the squad size, but to also have them be as readily accessible as the other 6.




R@S, you're welcome for the links. :grin:

And thanks for your input regarding Clear Sky. Will order it ASAP.

Ninja2dan, your detailed firsthand expertise is certainly welcomed here! :)

My Dad retired as a First Sergeant in 1990, so while I'm familiar with some of this stuff I don't have the firsthand experience of an enlisted man. Perhaps I need to dig up some of his old manuals, and make them handy?

A while ago, I did some research into how camouflage works in real life on the human mind. Patterned camouflage is ideal if the wearer is not moving, and/or moving very slowly (reflecting what you said Ninja2dan), but is actually easier to spot when the wearer is moving (weird!). If one is moving, solid colors that approximate the surrounding environment makes that wearer harder to discern (weird!). I see that some countries now are painting their larger vehicles in very chunky and blocky "camouflages," which I assume is to try and take advantage of the human mind's weaknesses at seeing a set of solid-colors in motion.

Interesting stuff, nonetheless.

In regards to a Spotter class... Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Spotters qualified to be Snipers, and isn't it "common" for Spotters and Snipers to switch roles from time to time? If this is the case, then the solution would seem obvious: have binoculars available (to open up the field of vision) and have two Snipers in one's squad.

I'll try to look up those screenshots of Reloaded elsewhere on this board. Thanks for the tip.

And I have to agree with R@S, the man is as good a listener as he is a designer. In fact, I'd argue that you can't have one without the other! :)

Every great modding endeavor I've ever contributed to has had leadership with good ears, a solid brain, and, of course, generosity by giving so much to the community for free!

If only the Real World could operate like a modding team, eh?

It would depend on which MOS he served as. I served as both 11B (Infantry) and 13B (Field Artillery), and still have access to a large portion of my old field manuals. I was also an instructor for several courses, and have TM's, FM's, STP's, etc for quite a few MOS's other than my primaries. The question is really going to be which type of reference materials would be useful for the modding "team" (R@S and any other coders, animators, model artists, etc).

If anyone does need a particular reference item, I can find a way to upload it. If I don't have it myself, and it's not on the restricted list, I'm sure I can get it. Just bare in mind that a lot of material is either still restricted, or has been placed back on the restricted list since 9/11. Just because a manual cover states "Approved for public distribution" doesn't mean it still has retained that status now, so care must be made to ensure the material is legal for public viewing.

The majority of modern camouflage patters have been designed to blend into the environment from various distances, even when the wearer is moving at a "light" speed. But it doesn't matter how good the camo is, anyone running across a field is going to be spotted. So yes, rapid movement even in camouflage is going to give your position away. But if moving slowly and precisely, as Snipers are trained to do, your camouflage can keep you nearly invisible even at a close range. In other words, no swatting at mosquitos.

Correct, the Spotter is nothing more than a regular Sniper really. They both have the same training, although in many circumstances the Spotter is the junior of the two. While both soldiers will often swap out roles to keep from getting fatigued or "tunnel-vision", the senior member of the sniper element is usually the primary shooter.

The Spotter's role is actually a lot more than most movies or games care to show. Obviously the Spotter "spots" targets for the Sniper, but he is also responsible for assisting in target detection and identification, and helping maintain security. Very often you'll see the Spotter armed with an M16A2/M203, which is very effective at helping break contact or engage multiple enemies faster than the Sniper's bolt-action. Even if the Sniper is armed with a semi-auto, their magazine capacities limit their effectiveness if they were compromised.


In a game like this though, I wouldn't really see the point in having two characters that operate as a team having the same Sniper-type skill sets. I would prefer to have my second team member (the Spotter role) trained in decent grenade-launcher skill, good observation/hearing/detection skills, but generally wouldn't need as much focus on long-range precision marksmanship. If you have both members of your sniper team engaging enemies through highly-magnified optics, then your Spotter's supporting capabilities just went out the window.

I'd probably just throw a Scout-type of soldier in as my spotter, get him skilled up with locating and observing targets from a distance, and make sure he is capable of accurate long-ranged UGL fire. If he ever does need to fire his primary weapon, it's most likely going to be automatic fire at close- and medium-ranged targets, and he'll need to rely more on rapid movements, reloads, and quick target transitions instead of slow, precise, long-ranged shots that the Sniper is known for.

Other skills that might be useful for a "spotter" type of role might be some good "engineering" knowledge to deploy defensive countermeasures such as AP mines, or is capable of cutting through fences or picking locks to allow the sniper element to access certain sniper hides.

Thank you, it's a load off to know that:)

I dunno, but I suspect that it's hard coded, as most of the GUI is.

Nope, hard coded.

Since that part is hard coded it would be tricky, but I could add a check to see if the skill are all 30, and if the are give the player those 50 points back. But I'm not inclined to do that, too much work for a small detail and it'll result in too much clicking.

As in BE5, the GUI can't handle that many mercs, and it causes serious balance issues. But it can be done and guineapig started on it for the outsourced mod. I can finish the job, adding an entry in the outsourcedconfig.ini where the player can set the number of mercs for himself, like choosing a numer between 6 to 20 team members. I've seen it, and here's the proof:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5273/teamsize.jpg

Holy cow! I thought that the limit for extra squadmates would be similar to BE5's (that's if "9" was the uppermost limit for BE5's engine), but to have 20 in 7.62! :grin:

You're right though, having that many units in the game would be awfully unbalancing, unless the number of enemy AI units scaled appropriately, but that would probably lead to computational issues for a lot of players, so...

But that would be fun to try out, nevertheless...

:grin:

I'm sorry to hear about all of the hardcoding. :(

Well, regardless, I have no doubts that by the time this baby's done it's going to be a mod that advances the original title by a tremendous degree, and there's a lot of mods out there that can claim that, but can't prove it. This one will. :)

Are unit cards hardcoded? I'd love it if they were scaled down to a quarter of that. All I really need is name, time left, and health/stamina., the enormous picture and really tall health bars just don't seem necessary. That would also let you see more than 9 (or w/e) mercs at once.

Then again, even if you let the player have 15 units and the enemies have 3-4x as much I don't think it would work to well, since the maps are too damn small for having 75 people at once (that and the game would probably explode).