I agree, it's easier to kill with a gun, but you don't hang around with loaded weapons all the time: you need to take it out, load it and go on a killing spree.

Unfortunately the idea of a world without armies and guns is pure utopia: difference, class, status and primary needs force us to confrontation, on many scales.

I agree, I don't wanna live in a society where I need to walk around with a sidearm all the time to provide for my own security, but I want to be given the freedom of bearing arms, using them for recreation, hobby, hunting (not that i'm a hunter myself, but others are) and ultimately (and hopefully never), self defence.

No, I said nobody cared about guns, I was talking about guns, remember?

Universtity fees (taxes?) is a seperate issue? Who was protesting? Students. Who protested at the banning of handguns? Handgun owners, it means nothing. It's just tough

So what? laws are restrictions of rights the more stupid the population gets the more laws are brought in. They didn't disarm everyone, if you've got a good enough reason and you pass the criteria you can still get one.

I have relatives who were there. You really are an obnoxious person.

Where did I say my country was better, where would you like me to start with Italy? 20th Century?

Truth is, none of these points you raise have any relevance to the discussion.

You brought Bloody Sunday up why? What point were you making?

Where? You can't handle it not me. Where Have I ranted on like you do?
Bringing all manner of historical attrocities and wrong doings, for what? To defend your hobby. I have kept to arguing my case not throwing so much sh*t around hoping some sticks.

Sorry, but societies consist of more people then your psycho having a go at a group. And I rather risk being shot by a psycho in an unlikely event of being at the wrong time at the wrong place then having every weirdo, drug addict and wannebe criminal or even your average gun fascinated father easy access to a firearm. There simply are too many imature, irresponsible or emotional driven poeple out there. In light of this the fun for hunting or sports shooting and as harsh at that sounds, ultimately self defense, too, is a very egocentric one. That is the gist of it.

And in regards to nations, we are very qucikly reaching a point where this earth is becoming a very small and very densly populated place. Time runs out for national quarrels. Either grow up or go down.

yeah, cos either you don't have a degree or you already paid yours, so it's not your issue, right? Typical selfish attitude of ignorant people.

a law is a rule to define your behaviour in a society, not a restriction of your rights. They disarmed a lot of people.

Seriously man, I was talking to you plural, why to you it always has to be a personal attack ,especially if I don't know you?.. besides it wasn't even you that brought up Syria, and that was in answer to that.

again, it wasn't referred at you, read ALL the posts of this thread, not only the ones from me.. and I surely know that my country is very very far from perfect, and if someone points out its flaws I'll be the first one to say you're right.

Hood (was it Hood?) made the silly comparison with Syria, and my point was that there's no need of such parallel, since every country has its own massacres at some points in history.

well you keep on telling me to leave, cos I'm not welcome and I steal your money(by you, who again for some reason think you represent your whole country, and thank God you don't), is that a relaxed attitude? It's called xenophobia, fear of what's different, and that's what it is. From what you write you really seem to be afraid that what's alien to you will bring only bad things, so you want to push it away altogether.

We're broke.. If someone has to pay a bit more towards a degree then that's just tough. I can't afford any more tax, sorry. They are lucky that they got a free education anyway, many many more worldwide do not.

Argue over the words all you want, you're good at it. So, it's a government restriction on behaviour when you want it to be, but when you say that the current law restricts your rights what you mean is it restricts your behaviour? Which is it?

Why bring up Bloody Sunday?


Why did you bring up Bloody Sunday?


As one of my rights I can express my opinion. I'm not xenophobic, or Racist, I represent me, myself. I said I want you to leave, I do. From the way you've spoken to me and the extremes (I could go back and quote all the negative things you've said about me, my country, my view) you go to to make a point, the things you've said to me would get you knocked out in any pub in the UK, lazy, benefit cheats, drunks, murdrers, destroyers of countries, bereft of morals, corrupt.. etc . I don't want you here, me personally, ok? Not the whole of the UK, I'm not taking dictation here. It's just me.

You also continue to tell me how I think ' From what you write you really seem to be afraid that what's alien to you will bring only bad things, so you want to push it away altogether'

No, I just don't want the current gun laws changed, you have expanded the argument to include all of the 'bad' things that you have included in your posts, the shock tactics, character assasination, is all there for anyone to read.

All I have said is I disagree with you and I've stated why. Get over it. Oh and please quote me where I said you 'steal' our money, I said take, as in when it's given.

You sure it's not Whinny:confused:

pathetic and senseless. They're applying cuts to one of the main forms of income of the UK: research. But I'm sure you know better, with your "tough" answer for all..

eh?

AGAIN? I EXPLAINED IT.

broken record?

Course you do, that's what you've been doing so far. You've also contradicted yourself: you don't want me to shut up and leave you alone, you want me to leave, you're a xenophobe.

yeah yeah, keyboard hero. You might appreciate the fact that a pub is not the ultimate place for this kind of debates, but still, try and knock me down, and let's see what happens, you think I carry the opinions that I do without being able to defend them from ignorants of your calibre, who in front of the sad truth of things would just try and knock me down cos they're in denial? Truth hurts man, doesn't it? Well, as you say: tough. Besides I thought you'd be used to get insulted by now, since our modern society does it continuously.

yeah, we already know you're an intolerant person, but thanks for reiterating the concept. I'm your complete opposite: I'm committed to the country I live in, I'm socially engaged, I contribute to charitable events, I vote, I was even offered to be a member of the local parish council.. Yeah, you wanna get rid of people like me really. The real difference is that unlike you I'm tolerant, and ready to support also people like yourself.

it's called opinion, but then again you don't even vote, what do you know about expressing your opinion anyway? Oh yes, you express your opinion by non voting, isn't it? :rolleyes:

No, you have only said that you disagree, you actually haven't said why.
I thought we agreed to disagree some time ago, you must have got bored of the lack of attention and came back for more.
Take "your" money? What about the profit that my work generates? The taxes I pay? Is my work less valuable than yours? I'm not taking nobody's money, you ignorant bigot, I'm earning my salary, and my taxes also pay for people that are too lazy to get themselves a job, or maybe I have no right to complain about this cos I'm not English?

And you also have the courage to ask me why I call you names.. unbelievable!

again, points of view man. The right to bear arms has little to do with your hobby or hunting, if the right of self defence means being egocentric, then I'm one.

Totally agree, and I'd rather be armed.

Still going at it? You might as well give up Stern, there is nothing more persistent than a man trying to explain why he'd give up his freedom for security. There is no logical reason for it, there can be no good outcome except that of a slave with a benevolent master, so you cant expect logical reasoning to work. No matter what you say, it will be seen as a personal attack, so the only response you'll get are personal attacks after the party line has run out of steam.

I really, really love my UK friends, as I've said here before, but banging heads rarely helps. Both men just end up with a headache and opinions unchanged.

When I said Laws were a restiction of rights, you said they weren't. You said they were a 'restriction on behaviour'. But, you have repeatedly said that the current gun laws are affecting your rights. When I say the same thing you tell me I'm wrong. This is a direct contradiction.

Quote me where I've contradicted myself?

As for xenophobia, I'm talking to an individual, not an Itallian, who has sat there and listed all that is wrong with the UK, over and over again, if you were English I'd still say 'if you don't like it that much leave.' Your nationality is of no importance. I have not mentioned anything about Italy, you have mentioned lots of negative points, sterotypes and historical wrongs about the UK, and you call me a xenophobe.

So don't try and assasinate my character with slurrs like xenophobe, it is not true. You'll say anything to defend your hobby.

All I have ever said is I don't want the current guns laws changed, because at some point they will issue a licence to someone who shouldn't have one, because the authorities don't exactly fill me with confidence.

Less people in the UK died from being shot last year than died from farming accidents, where have we got it so wrong? Where are all these gun waving murderes that you need a gun to defend yourself?