Just a bit of sarcasm.

really, the subliminal point is the difference it makes from an eye-witness perspective to either recorded 'fact' or photos/videos.
As much as eye-witness accounts are great, on the surface they aren't wholly credible. I mean, a pilot could exaggerate to great lengths about events, and certainly a pilot never sat in the cockpit and said 'right, I need to remember what these tracers look like just for future reference'.
Having said that, I'm sure they would remember, and if you read any account on the battle, the pilots may explain the tracers with detail. I wish I could remember the pilot, but I have a distinct memory of ann account/book I read where the pilot went into detail about the de-wilde ammunition and how the tracers look. I think I can recall him mention the smoke-trails from the tracer, but I can't give a quote as I can't remember who the chap was.

As for photos and videos, well the old argument that they don't record what the eye sees holds a lot of water. Take anything like that with a pinch of salt really.

And fact? Well, who are we to judge? Until someone does a full test on the different types of ammunition and tracer, we won't know for certain. But certainly Air-Ministry AP's are helpful and so are pilot accounts, and lastly photos and videos.

But no, I did not fight in the war but then I would never attempt to justifiy that I did. :D and me saying 'I was' is not me trying to lead you on.

However, Tim Elkington, a famous BoB Hurricane pilot, posts (infrequently) at the a2a forums in the BoB2 section, and some of his posts really are illuminating. I'm sure if any one here who has an account there, or wishes to make one, posed the question regarding tracers (or anything similar) Tim may be able to offer a nice explanation. He does some RAF events as well, and i have always wanted to try to go to one to have a chat with him.

What? Are you just making this stuf up? :confused:





NATO 5.56mm tracer construction:


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i.../556_ammo2.gif

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...856_tracer.gif



NATO 7.62mm tracer:


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...2mm_tracer.gif
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i.../762mm_M62.gif

Old US .30 cal (.30-06) tracer:


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i..._M1_tracer.gif




50 BMG tracer:

http://www.ammoman.com/spotter_tracer_files/spotter.gif


Russian 7.62x54R tracers:


http://www.gunpics.net/articles/762x54_4.jpghttp://www.gunpics.net/articles/762x54_3.jpg

25mm AP sabot tracer:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/M919diag.gif


As you can see they all have a pocket for pyrotechnic flare powder. That flare is what you see in flight.

All your talking cannot hide the fact that you tried to pretend you fought in uniform. Where I come from that is deeply offensive. Some things cannot be relativized, no matter how much you try.

Yes, I know Tim Elkington from the forums. But just because I read his postings I don't confuse myself with him. I wonder what he'd think about a chat with someone who tries to pass himself off as a veteran.

I understand your point if someone was really trying to pass themselves off as having served but I honestly saw the original posting as a joke. A sarcastic "nahnah nah nahnah" if you will ;).

Splitter

Yes, thanks Splitter, that was all the post was meant to be :(
Sorry if I offended anyone. I never tried to pass myself off as anyone though; I didn't say I was so and so...
I do quite a good Douglas Bader impression though.....

Sorry, but I really think you are over-reacting. Philip's comment was obviously sarcastic, tongue in cheek - maybe ill-advised, but to build it into some calculated insult to real wartime veterans is ridiculous.

Thanks for the useful info Jaws.

The FN video taken from the fixed wing aircraft cockpit really shows best how tracers should, and will, look in the sim, with correct colors of course.

I have seen 30.06 tracers fired on a range from a bolt action rifle (US Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917. Same as the British P14 Enfield only in .30-06 instead of .303) and even standing behind the shooter who was shooting from a bench rest there was no visible "spiral" pattern of the tracer, and no smoke either. This was with WW2 era tracer ammo.

I would never dream of saying anything against the brave men/women that served our country in those times.

But my comment was clearly uncalled for. I do have quite a dry, sarcastic humour. I think if I had said that to a mate, or anyone, the expression on my face or the way I said it would have shown it was just a saracastic joke. But on the internet it's very hard to get this accross, the same way it's hard for me to say how sorry I am if I've upset you.

Do you think altitude will affect it? If the tracer is burning, wouldn't the burning tracer cause the cold air to condense...? or even if the tracer is burning, smoke would be produced?
Clearly, as Oleg has hinted/said, there were lots of different tracer types, all of which will (hopefully) be modelled.

You're asking us to believe he tried to pass himself off as a 90-year old BoB pilot with a very pronounced interest in the shapes of clouds in a yet to be published computer game, and that he furthermore chose to keep this information to himself but then immediately revealed it when asked.

My diagnosis is a malfunctioning irony module and, before we all go nuts, I'm being ironic (just not well).

dduff