Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - Luthier Update Clarification Please

Official Fulqrum Publishing forum (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/index.php)

- IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=189)

- - Luthier Update Clarification Please (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=27229)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM (Post 353198)

But DirectX11 support was advertised

Actually that is not true..

The good news is I think I have figured out why you and others are having so much trouble understanding this simple issue.

It is because you keep leaving out the API part in DX11 API.

These kind of mistakes happen a lot to those who choose to 'comment' on something without 'quoting' it

With that said allow me to provided you the quote you are referring to, i.e.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UBI

THE BEST OF TECHNOLOGY FOR ULTIMATE REALISM
New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.

I took the liberty of colorizing the pertinent parts

As you can see it says 'DX11 API support.' NOT 'DX11 support.'

As I pointed out back on page 22.. DX11-API support does not mean the game actually use DX11 specific features!

In my own words DX11-API provides something previous DX API versions did not provide. That being what Microsoft calls 'feature levels'

But don't take my word for it! Here is the direct quote from the Microsoft web site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS

Getting Started with DirectX Graphics
Microsoft DirectX graphics provides a set of APIs that you can use to create games and other high-performance multimedia applications. DirectX graphics includes support for high-performance 2-D and 3-D graphics.

For 3-D graphics, use the Microsoft Direct3D 11 API. Even if you have Microsoft Direct3D 9-level or Microsoft Direct3D 10-level hardware, you can use the Direct3D 11 API and target a feature level 9_x or feature level 10_x device.

I took the liberty of colorizing the pertinent parts

Note it says 'Even if' you have DX09, DX10 hardware you can use the DX11-API software to and target DX09 and DX10 'feature levels'

This is key..

Using the DX11-API the developer can 'choose' the level of DirectX 'features' to use.

So 1C can be using the DX11-API but limit the 'feature levels to DX10. Which debunks the 'myth' that states because 1C listed DX11-API support it means CoD has to be a DX11 game.

If your still confused as to what 'feature levels' mean read the following Microsoft direct quote

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS

Direct3D 11 on Downlevel Hardware (feature level)
To handle the diversity of video cards in new and existing machines, Microsoft Direct3D 11 introduces the concept of feature levels. Each video card implements a certain level of Microsoft Direct3D functionality depending on the graphics processing unit (GPU) installed. In prior versions of Direct3D, you could find out the version of Direct3D the video card implemented, and then program your application accordingly.

With Direct3D 11, a new paradigm is introduced called feature levels. A feature level is a well defined set of GPU functionality. For instance, the 9_1 feature level implements the functionality that was implemented in Microsoft Direct3D 9, which exposes the capabilities of shader models ps_2_x and vs_2_x, while the 11_0 feature level implements the functionality that was implemented in Direct3D 11.

Now when you create a device, you can attempt to create a device for the feature level that you want to request. If the device creation works, that feature level exists, if not, the hardware does not support that feature level. You can either try to recreate a device at a lower feature level or you can choose to exit the application. See D3D11CreateDevice.

I took the liberty of colorizing the pertinent parts

Note you can use the DX11-API to 'support' DX09, DX10 or DX11 'feature levels'

This is key..

What this all means is 1C could in fact be using the DX11-API support for software development..

BUT

Only making use of the DX10 'feature functions'

So now that you understand what DX11-API support means

It should be clear to everyone that there is nothing misleading about the 1C advertisement!

Granted, 1C is only making use of DX10 'features' but at the same time 1C is making use of (supporting) the DX11-API

Why you ask?

Well I hate to guess, but, what with all the issues so many recent games have had with DX11 I can only assume that 1C had issues with it too. And instead of waiting on Microsoft to fix those DX11 features, they simply made use of the DX11-API option to limit the 'features' to DX10

As for why 1C said DX11-API support instead of just saying DX11 support..

I can only guess

Probably because they wanted to make it clear to those who understand what DX11-API support means, that CoD has already made the transition in their code to use (support) the DX11-API!

Which is a good thing!

Because it mean it 1C can switch to DX11 features as soon as they are ready to do so!

Where as games that have not made the transition will have to spend a lot of time and effort converting over to the DX11-API!

As was the case for Crysis 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiago Sousa Principal R&D Graphics Engineer

With Crysis 2 being our first multi-platform game, our main focus was to ensure a successful delivery on all supported platforms. Unfortunately, such constraint didn’t allow us to concentrate on DirectX 11 with the level of commitment that is to be expected from a Crytek release. This is the reason why it was decided to give the R&D team sufficient time and effort after the release of Crysis 2. The “DX11 Ultra Upgrade” is the result of this work: it is a free visual upgrade add-on introducing DirectX 11 support, as well as a wealth of graphical improvements and performance optimizations for both DX11 and DX9 API’s

As you can see from above quote Crysis 2 had to do a lot of work to make the transition to 'support' the DX11-API

Why?

Because they were not using the DX11-API

The good news is I think Luther statement a few days ago that we can soon expect a 50% increase in FPS is not that unbelievable, based on what the Crysis 2 team says, i.e.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiago Sousa Principal R&D Graphics Engineer

We believe that we only started to scratch the surface of what is possible with the DirectX 11 API

So I hope that helps you and yours understand the difference between DX11 support and DX11-API support

;)

Let me just say right now that I don't even really care that much about the issue here, as others have said it's pretty much old news, but I'll just say that I always read that line as:

'Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support.'

i.e. the 'API support' refers to both DX10 and DX11 equally - it's easier to see that when you don't highlight the bit that supports your take in different coloured font. It's even easier to see when you don't add a hyphen that isn't in the original ;)

Anyway, I've got wrapped up in some stupid arguments on this forum but this one may take the biscuit. May I be struck down by lightning if I post in this thread again...:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendo65 (Post 353505)

That is your opinion (read interpretation) that fits your agenda and your welcome to it

I know a lot of you feel cheated.. How and where that comes from based on 1Cs support of the IL-2 series is beyond me.

So I only offer up my opinion (read interpretation) in the hope that it will pull you out of your funky mood.

I see that is not going to work on the hard core whiners in this thread, but if I help one person out of that funk, than it was all worth it to me

with DX10 and DX11 API support = with DX10 and DX11 API support or with DX10 and DX11 API support???

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES (Post 353508)

So I only offer up my opinion (read interpretation) in the hope that it will pull you out of your funky mood.

Thank you. By that you acknowledge there are room for other interpretations.
That in itself is soo thrilling that my head is spinning.
But more importantly you vaildate others interpretations thus ending this loooong debate.

Now lets move on to the next line of text and dissect it. :-P

Advanced physics – wind, lift, turbulences, rain, fog… Feel the air rush on your wings as you push your aircraft to the limits in epic dogfights. See your fuselage torn to pieces while every single enemy bullets ballistic and damages is calculated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vengeanze (Post 353553)

with DX10 and DX11 API support = with DX10 and DX11 API support or with DX10 and DX11 API support???

Thank you. By that you acknowledge there are room for other interpretations.
That in itself is soo thrilling that my head is spinning.
But more importantly you vaildate others interpretations thus ending this loooong debate.

Now lets move on to the next line of text and dissect it. :-P

Advanced physics – wind, lift, turbulences, rain, fog… Feel the air rush on your wings as you push your aircraft to the limits in epic dogfights. See your fuselage torn to pieces while every single enemy bullets ballistic and damages is calculated.

I can tell by this and other responses that I am still not explaining this very well

Maybe it is time for a hands on example?

But first a little background history

For those familiar with IL-2 the will recall that the IL-2 Video DirectX settings were very chip-set based, i.e.

NVidia Gefore 4MX
NVidia GeForce 6800/6600/FX/4/3
ATI Radeon
ATI Rage 128
Intel 915/925
Matrox G400
3dfx Voodoo 3

The il2setup.exe GUI also provided a Custom settings for cards that were not listed, than there was the ability to manually edit the conf.ini file itself.

Since than Nvidia and Microsoft have worked together to eliminate the need to specify specific video card chipset. Gone are the days that the game developer needs to deal with individual video card chipsets. Now with DX11-API approach the game developer only need to specify the DirectX 'feature level'.

In the case of CoD the DX11-API default is set to DX10, i.e.

Code:

Render=D3D10_0

But you can manually edit the conf.ini file to force CoD to use a different 'feature level'

For example if you want to set (limit) the 'feature levels' to DirectX 9 use the following

Code:

Render=D3D9_1

For example if you want to set (try) the 'feature levels' to DirectX 11 use the following

Code:

Render=D3D11_0

But remember what all the OFFICIAL 1C, UBI, STEAM advertisements state, i.e.

Quote:

VIDEO CARD: DirectX® 9.0c compliant, 512Mb Video Card (1GB DirectX® 10 recommended)

Note DirectX 11.0 is not listed let alone recommended!

But because 1C is using the DX11-API you can 'try' it, just don't be surprised if you get a black screen or worse FPS

Oh, and the following should go without saying, but based on some of the nay-sayer responses it is probably best to state the obvious.. That being to 'try' DX11 settings you will have to have a DX11 compliant video card!

For those that love to manually tweak things, and are interested in what different settings affect, you may find the following Microsoft link interesting

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...29(VS.85).aspx

Now I have not tried all the following settings, but based on the MS link above I think the following settings should worked

Code:

Render=D3D10_0 i.e. The hardware supports Direct3D 10.0 features.

Code:

Render=D3D10_1 i.e. The hardware supports Direct3D 10.1 features.

Code:

Render=D3D9_1 i.e. The hardware supports Direct3D 9.1 features.

Code:

Render=D3D9_2 i.e. The hardware supports Direct3D 9.2 features.

Code:

Render=D3D9_3 i.e. The hardware supports Direct3D 9.3 features.

Enjoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip.ed (Post 353351)

'gamer'? It's a simulation mate! Colours and representation are all relevent! So you're clearly the 'gamer' in this regard :rolleyes: What a bloody stupid statement from you.
Yes, I have gone on about it, but I won't stop until I see some form of change. I'm sorry mate but I only want this game to improve, and ATM I don't think the team have the knowledge to get all aspects of the sim right.
The technical details are one thing; immersion is another, and this sim is not an immersive representation of the BoB. I live in blighty; have flown over blighty. To me it all matters, whether colours seem rather stupid to you or not. I don't care that you don't care. This sim is made for the community: not for Lobi.

Use Photoshop and do it yourself. You can do it! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacoma74 (Post 353516)

http://cdn.hometheaterforum.com/5/5a...dead_horse.jpg

Why are those men beating Sarah Jessica Parker?

(Edit for the unaware: http://sarahjessicaparkerlookslikeahorse.com/ )

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM (Post 353306)

I use FreeTrack! Better and cheaper than NP hardware/software. Maybe with my videos people finally can see that! :-P

Smooth zoom - JoyToKey, mouse emulation and "Hold To Adjust FOV". Search the forum, we have some posts teaching how to do. ;)

That explains it. I heard that Freetrack was very smooth for CoD. I've had TrackIR for years and it was excellent in 1946 but for some reason in this it is a nightmare - very unsteady despite fiddling with the profile. If anyone out there has a solid profile I'd love to try it :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM (Post 353306)

Please, post your settings, I'm interested because i too use freetrack :grin:

Quote:

Originally Posted by albx (Post 353772)

Please, post your settings, I'm interested because i too use freetrack :grin:

Here we go...

[Advanced]
Average=1
IgnoreBackwardZ=0
MaintainPausedData=0
RollRelativeRot=0
RelativeTransYaw=0
RelativeTransPitch=0
RelativeTransRoll=0
RelativeTransX=0
RelativeTransY=0
RelativeTransZ=0
[Sensitivity]
Yaw=19500
Pitch=19800
Roll=5100
X=15300
Y=15300
Z=7200
[Smoothing]
Yaw=60
Pitch=60
Roll=60
X=60
Y=60
Z=60
Zooming=1
SmoothStableMultiplier=25
SmoothRawMultiplier=25
Dynamic=1
[Inverted]
Yaw=0
Pitch=0
Roll=0
X=0
Y=0
Z=0
[AxisEnabled]
Yaw=1
Pitch=1
Roll=1
X=1
Y=1
Z=1
[AxisMap]
Yaw=0
Pitch=1
Roll=2
X=3
Y=4
Z=5
[YawCfg]
X0=0
Y0=102
X1=53
Y1=85
X2=106
Y2=69
X3=320
Y3=2
[PitchCfg]
X0=0
Y0=102
X1=53
Y1=85
X2=106
Y2=69
X3=320
Y3=2
[RollCfg]
X0=0
Y0=102
X1=35
Y1=69
X2=69
Y2=35
X3=102
Y3=2
[XCfg]
X0=0
Y0=102
X1=2
Y1=92
X2=2
Y2=22
X3=320
Y3=2
[YCfg]
X0=0
Y0=102
X1=2
Y1=92
X2=2
Y2=24
X3=320
Y3=2
[ZCfg]
X0=0
Y0=102
X1=2
Y1=92
X2=2
Y2=23
X3=320
Y3=2
[Output]
MouseX=0
MouseXEnabled=1
MouseY=1
MouseYEnabled=1
MouseWheel=0
MouseWheelEnabled=0
MouseAutoPan=0
MouseAbsolute=0
MouseWheelScale=50
PPJoyControllerNumber=1
FreeTrack=1
TIR=1
Mouse=0
PPJoy=0
Keys=0
SimConnect=0
FS=0
[Mapping]
Pause=
PauseBeep=1
PauseToggle=1
Center=Controller04_1
CenterBeep=0
CenterToggle=0
CustomCenterSet=
CustomCenterSetBeep=1
CustomCenterSetToggle=1
CustomCenterReset=
CustomCenterResetBeep=1
CustomCenterResetToggle=1
SmoothStable=
SmoothStableBeep=1
SmoothStableToggle=1
SmoothRaw=
SmoothRawBeep=1
SmoothRawToggle=1
Yaw=
YawBeep=1
YawToggle=1
Pitch=
PitchBeep=1
PitchToggle=1
Roll=
RollBeep=1
RollToggle=1
X=
XBeep=1
XToggle=1
Y=
YBeep=1
YToggle=1
Z=
ZBeep=1
ZToggle=1
FreeTrack=
FreeTrackBeep=1
FreeTrackToggle=1
TIR=
TIRBeep=1
TIRToggle=1
Mouse=
MouseBeep=1
MouseToggle=1
Joystick=
JoystickBeep=1
JoystickToggle=1
Keymap=
KeymapBeep=1
KeymapToggle=1
SimConnect=
SimConnectBeep=1
SimConnectToggle=1
ProfileA=
ProfileABeep=1
ProfileAToggle=1
ProfileB=
ProfileBBeep=1
ProfileBToggle=1
ProfileC=
ProfileCBeep=1
ProfileCToggle=1
[OutputKeys]
YawThreshold=50
YawHold=1
YawPos=
YawNeg=
PitchThreshold=50
PitchHold=1
PitchPos=
PitchNeg=
RollThreshold=50
RollHold=1
RollPos=
RollNeg=
XThreshold=50
XHold=1
XPos=
XNeg=
YThreshold=50
YHold=1
YPos=
YNeg=
ZThreshold=50
ZHold=1
ZPos=
ZNeg=
[CustomCenter]
Yaw=0
Pitch=0
Roll=0
X=0
Y=0
Z=0

:cool:

thanks lobisomem I'll try it :D

I have to agree with Ace and co., however botched the release of CoD, it was surprisingly free of dishonesty regarding the basic features. It was more the lack of any comment about the state of the game at all (however understandable it is that they were quiet) that was kind of dishonest and upsetting to people. In fact, the only things I take exception to were the "AA is off because our computer is rubbish" stuff and this from the SimHQ interview:
"Will the aircraft have individual G-limitations, and suffer progressive damage and lowering of the airframe's G-tolerance? Rather than the IL-2: Sturmovik Series model of instant failure at one G-limit?
A. Yes."