That's something you can't know if you don't ask.
How can you know Oleg's oppinion about your work if you don't submit it to him?

I have transmitted some of my work, sometimes, and.... generaly, never answerd :rolleyes: the only thing i do and was taken care was the skinpack for the corsair for release of PF....

I temporarily went off of the mods because of the furor they caused, and because they seemed silly to me---I wasn't concerned about whether my engine sounded exactly like the correct one or not, and I was indifferent to using a great number of former AI aircraft now fitted with ad hoc cockpits. I was unable to get the 6 DOF mod to work. Well, a friend sent me a note which told me the 6 DOF mod was perfected and easily installed. I reinstalled 46, which bored me to death, installed the sound mod, and installed the 6 DOF mod.

Simply put, you would have to be totally insane to not use this. You would have to be the the most reactionary diehard in the world to want to go on using the standard sight emulation system. With 6 DOF 46 is a brand new, nearly state-of-the-art combat flight sim. Now I love IL-2 again---it is my favorite flight sim. My favorite 46 airplane is the I-16. Prior to 6 DOF you were dead blind aft---totally, completely unrealistic. This was one very big reason I threw 46 off of my HD---without 6 DOF it was ludicrous---a dated product. 6 DOF is not a gimmick. It is not a luxury. It is not fun. It is the core of a flight sim. Without it your situational awareness is massively reduced. Without it your relationship to your gunsight is artificial. Without it all the beautiful modeling of the effects of the telescopic sights is wasted. With 6 DOF in 46 you have to depress your virtual head to squeeze your eye into the F2A-2's tele sight. You do not lose SA while using a tele sight because you can quickly glance left and right out of the sight to track your target. Tracking targets is much easier. People who have never used 6 DOF cannot have a conception of what it means. You can ID a target by quickly moving your head closer to the windscreen. Your visual activity is natural, not artificial.

Thus, the mods are doing some great things, but I place this at the top. You recall, we were "authoritatively" told 6 DOF was impossible in IL-2.

I wonder if Oleg let things come to a boil just to see how inventive the IL-2 people are, how creative, how imaginative? The online people wanted IL-2 frozen. Now it is wide open in an explosion of creativity. IL-2 will live for years now rather than being "Oleg's first essay---now obsolete thanks to BOBSOW."

Tell me please uf_josse......
What guncam film did you use to set up your mod to validate your changes of a .50 vs. the Ki-61-I?
Which version of the Ki-61-I was it, including serial number as the armor varied greatly throughout the series and only a specific s/n will give thicknesses and locations?
What was the energy the .50 cal. round was producing?
What was the hardness of the armor and its chemical composition as well as associated manufacturing processes to determine hardness and how brittle the armor was.
At what deflection angle and through what outer components did the round pass first?
What actual TAIU or other test reports did you use to confirm your findings?
etc.?

Naturally I'm sure you're doing the same with each and every aircraft, type of round, type of MG, considering each and every deflection, range, energy state, pass through, round deformation and so on....

K2

No, you were told it could not be done correctly and to the quality standards Maddox Games had set which it cannot....In kind wherein using a mouse, keyboard views, hat, or TIR, the possible views a player can have are exactly the same....With 6DOF that balance between players equipment is lost. So those using that mod having a distinct and unfair advantage over non users in online play.

K2

The purpose of IL-2 was to design the most realistic possible combat flight sim, not to design a balanced toy for the onliners.

To a point.....and how realistic are your 6dof views in all planes considering the cockpit graphics? As much as we ALL want it realistic, there is a point where lines must be drawn considering the limitations of it being "virtual" and often based upon the hardware and software available. As to the above issue it was made quite clear that to make 6dof "realistic" would entail reworking every cockpit in the sim, that's old news. In kind, being that the sim was "designed" with not just single players in mind yet MMP, that requires that balance be maintained in certain regards.

Not aircraft, weapons, and so on.....Yet aspects of "play" as I can assure you if I was able to have a 20% greater field of view then you in a head to head competition in the same aircraft you would state quite clearly...."Unfair, that's cheating".

K2

Anyway, BF, you are making up history. We were always told 6 DOF was impossible in IL-2 because the cockpits were not designed for 6 DOF, and that there would be troubles with gaps. There was never any official statement about denying 6 DOF to keep online play balance. This is sheer nonsense anyway because people who play using keyboards are disadvantaged, those who do not have pedals and separate throttles are disadvantaged, those who do not have TrackIRs are disadvantaged, and those who can't virtually fly or shoot worth a hang are disadvantaged to the point of near incapacity.

Since you will never try 6 DOF in IL-2, you will never see how seamlessly it works. I wouldn't use it if it were messy because I am a snob, and I hate crude work. As I stated earlier, I think the 6 DOF for IL-2 works better than that in FSX, BOBII, and MAW.

I fancy you have never used any of those, or any 6 DOF flight sim, thus, you don't know of what you speak.

We "were told" a lot of things by Oleg that turned out to be, to put it bluntly, flat out lies.

Am I 'cheating' because I use Voice Activated Controls? After all, that isn't something that is "in the game''? Are all of us that have WS monitors and are forcing WS in the conif.ini 'cheating', since IL2 dosen't natively support WS? I'm at a disadvantage to others since I don't have TIR. Are those folks 'cheating'?

I've heard a lot of "They could ...", 'It's now possible to ...", "It may lead to ..." from a lot you people here, but none of you can show that it's actually happening on any sort of regular basis. As far as I know there has been ONE documented case, and that was very blatent. Which brings up another point.

We know based on past experience in CFS1 & 2, which was 'open', and modifying FM/DM WAS as easy as using cut and paste, that the 'mods' were always outragous and easily spotted, and that the folks that were willing to use them weren't content to just give a 'small increase' in speed/ammo loadout/survivability, etc. Anyone wanting to 'win at any cost' isn't going to be content with a 5-10% increase in speed. If they aren't good enough to win at 'stock', 10% isn't going to help them anyway. Thats what we saw in the CFS series, and that's what we will see here IF, modifying FM/DM is as easy as 'some' have said. How did we deal with them? We booted them, and let everyone know in the chat room on the Zone who they were and what they were doing. CFS1 didn't 'die', nor was it 'ruined' by the mods. We delt with the mod users, and the MOD users finally started running games that were MOD ONLY. Each side (for the most part) respected each other and we co-existed. Are you 'anti-mod' people claiming that the IL2 community isn't just as capable of doing that as the CFS community was?

Some claim that modifing FM/DM is easily done in notepad using cut and paste. Really? Tell me, just how many aircraft have you modified and used online to test that out? You guys seem to be the 'experts'. I'm sure it would not be all that hard for you to make the changes, make a few tracks, and show us that you did it now, would it? If you can't, than maybe you should stop making claims that you can't backup.

Spot On Buzzard http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...eys/thumbs.gif

I always said...

Oleg Maddox killed CFS3!

Well, Microsoft helped, never supporting and then abandoning its own product (I heard the original CFS3 developers were fired). Fortunately, Oleg didn't fire Oleg.

I'll have to disagree with Oleg killing CFS3. The M$ 'bean counters' killed CFS3 by forcing it's release before the developers were finished with it. Buggy online code was the worst, and without a decent 'online experience' it was doomed to failure. As for the physics engine, FM and DM modeling, it's still ahead of IL2. The AVHISTORY guys have made FM/DM models that will make you throw rocks at what "The Great and Mighty" Oleg has put into IL2.

Yes, IL2 does do some things better that CFS3 did, but, if CFS3 would have been at the same level of development as CFS1 was when it was released, IL2 would have just been a footnote in the history of combat flight sims.

...and Microsoft not supporting it after one patch, abandoning the product. So Microsoft killed its own sim, and Oleg was there to take up the slack. Sounds like a two man hit job.

MS killed CFS3..... I waited with great anticipation for CFS3... I got IL2 in the interim.. since I had upgrade my rig expressly for CFS3... but when it came out it was terrible. Absolutely terrible. Worse than CFS1 even. For me IL2 was everything that CFS3 was not.. and it was a no brainer. If OM had the resources at his disposal that MS had who knows what he could have done.

Exactly right buzzard.

I havn't yet seen the hack track..because it was removed from site.
But i dont think there is a lot of cheating going on with the mod. The new mods are just things to make the game better like 6DOF, and cockpit repaints..

They are against any kind of modification of Flight Model, Damage Model, and weapons.


And i've still yet to see any track where there is hacking.

Its not even that serious, just go to a server that has checkruntime = 2 and you have a mod-safe server.

I still dont see why all these people are crying that the online is trashed or whatever.....where are the tracks to prove that there are FM/DM/Weapon changes?

And yes the 6DOF is really good. Makes for a more realistic flight.

And who really cares that the game is being modded? It really would have happened soon or later.

I wouldn't even think Oleg cared about this game anymore..i mean he IS working on a brand new game, why would he care what happens with his old project? And i seriously think too many people are overreacting on this mod thing. There ARE servers that dont allow the mod..go play there.

OX.... To prevent you from choking on your foot any further.

Here are two of the links that you didnt bother to see and they do work.
This first one proves that CRT=2 does not work.
If CRT=2 worked, most players would not have a problem with the sound mod and this thread would be much shorter. (Olegs opinion regarding the legality may differ)
http://rapidshare.com/files/78861110...t_WOE.zip.html

The next set of ntrks shows a weapons mod that is being shared on the web and in your favorite forum along with other mods that provide an unfair advantage in online gaming. http://rapidshare.com/files/79753704...angle.zip.html

The person (and member of your favorite forum) who hacked the weapons has already visited this thread and confirmed he is modding the weapons and will continue to do so, but of course only to make "some rectifications" of Oleg's mistakes. The admins of the servers have confirmed that the ntrks are not fakes.

How widespread these problems are isn't known. However, in a server with 50 people in it, it may only take one bad apple to ruin everyone’s day... not a majority... not a minority... just one.

Most of us have already agreed that an improvement in the checkruntime is needed and we are waiting to see what the 409 server may bring.

Please do not feel bad about your lack of understanding of the subject. A volunteer comes along nearly everyday making similar statements.


YW and Happy New Year.

Hanz, Before you choke on your on foot any further. You may want to check the links you posted!

Don't get me wrong, I am also against the modding of this game. I already know that people are using modded weapons online.

Before everyone says "got track?", there is no way you will be able to spot this stuff in a track. It will be too subtle to see in a track. All they have to do is increase hitting power of a gun a little bit to make a HUGE difference. Or, increase the speed of a plane by 10mph.

This is the kind of stuff that will ruin the online game, not the spit with rockets and 108's.

If these folks are smart enough to hack the code, they are smart enough to not make it obvious. Cheaters MUST have the edge because they don't have the natural talent to win fairly. It will always be!

After asking where the tracks are myself and finally being given the links to them after asking 3 times i got to see the tracks that where made of the hacker. This isnt even close to a weapons hack. This is a down right aimbot. Hes shooting at over 2 Kilometers and getting basically 1 shot kills.

And Hanzblix ive never seen this hack anywhere in the AAA forums so if you could get a link to the hack on that website please post it so you can say I told you so to everyone.

Page 27 and 30 of this thread.

Uf Josse and LAL Rone I believe are the authors you should look for on the other site. Hope that answers your question.

I know ive dled and seen them BSS. But like with me asking for the links at that time and when another persons asks for links he gets the same thing I got, and thats being told I havent a clue of what im talking about and need to get a clue.

Some here have taken the Ubizoo mentality to new highs here. Wont be long before Oleg doesnt post here anymore either as he did at the Zoo

Working links are in several places in this thread already.
If some of you had read the thread more carefully, you would have seen these same links that others have used including the two Sniper mentioned above.

I do believe a few of the links that were either in the quotes or copied and pasted to reponses didn’t work due to dropped characters in the paste.

Either way, failure to read carefully is not an excuse for not finding the originally posted links. I'll put the working links here to make it easier for you.
You can go back and read the original posts for the descriptions of the tracks. Those post also include working links.

http://rapidshare.com/files/78861110...t_WOE.zip.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/79753704...angle.zip.html

LW_Carp: It's not an aimbot. Josse hacked the machine guns to be more powerful and then shared the hack with many others including myself through the AAA forum. Did I read that right? You want Hanz to post a link to a weapons hack here??? Are you nuts???

Hanz check email.

Who is Daichidicki ??

:confused:
sorry man, but i do have the josse-weapon mod on my modded il2 partition...
and there is nothing like that in his mod,just bredas slightly more powerfull...had done some MTO41 missions in a MC200 and wanted to check the difference against the hurris , and yes, it does take the half a the bullets to bring down a hurri...as it should be (last time i crippled the hurri with the full magazine...smoking and pissing from everywhere but still flying, with the josse mod i could have 2 with all my ammo...and there is no spit weapons actually in his mod...so i really didn't understand those last2 of the 3tracks in your second link...what should they represent???

so, maybe you have found a java tool and learned how to use it and then accuse josse ,who's flying il2 since 2001, just to descredete him?? ;)
Or i really missed something in those famous tracks ? please, if it is so, tell me what cause i really like to be suprised:grin:

[QUOTE=Daichidicki;33133\
LW_Carp: It's not an aimbot. Josse hacked the machine guns to be more powerful and then shared the hack with many others including myself through the AAA forum. Did I read that right? You want Hanz to post a link to a weapons hack here??? Are you nuts???
[/QUOTE]

No you didnt read it right I want him to post a link to the page that has this aimbot at the AAA forums as he said thats where it came from.

More powerful? this is vulching at 2 kilometers with a short burst and exploding you cant even see what hes shooting at till you see the kill in chat. Ive seen aimbots and thats what it looks like not a more powerfull gun. More power doesnt mean 2 klick kills.

Sorry Carp,

You're seeking a link to an aimbot to use in IL2.
Of course only to be used offline ;)
Now I understand. Thanks

badatflyski
I simply reposted the links and info to the ntrks that were in the previous pages. The version I have has only one file and it seems to only affect the IAR. Maybe there is another version or someone has made some changes to Josse's mod like you suggested? Maybe Carp is correct and now there is an aimbot available as well? Now I'm beginning to wonder what else there is? I'm not sure I want to know. :(

I just read this new AAA Thread:
"A warning to members
hiya we recently have evidence of certain members sending pm's to other users of mods containing cheats - we will ban & remove these users !
please do not use this forum to exchange obviously cheating mods" ...MrJolly at AAA

I know MrJolly will do his best to control what he can with regards to this issue in that forum.

No those Heros
of ours wouldn't
put anything out that would
hurt the sim

They are all expertn in there
new role as sim fixers!!

you go to their site and see way to much of
whats happening

boys gone wrong for sure

Totally wrong.....

We are not the authors for this hack and it is not available at AAA.... :rolleyes:

BTW, anybody that can access to javaclass with Qtim's public tools can easily done this kind of hack...... basicaly, great majority of modders that manipulate java classes....... and we are numerous, i think.
Weapons are one of the easyest mod to make..... mod is easy, historically modding is much harder..... but this kind of cheat is really simple to do, modifying some parameters with exagerated values is a simple way. (i used that method, parameter by parameter to see what and how they affected the ammo.)

And please, don't think more that you can find this kind of cheat at AAA....

Sorry, but it is not me, search another modder ;)

Who was it that then 'adjusted' particular ammo loadouts for different weapons to make them more powerful according to how they feel? I even read in forum how someone was now killing hurricanes in half the time because of that mod. Just asking.

Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm hmmmmm lol

You just confuse between hack seen in tracks and my work that just slightly correct some weapons like bredas..... they where just a pure joke in the game... they are now more accurate.... but the tracks shows something totally different with widly overmodeled weapons.... and i am absolutely not the author......

And BTW, r-one never modified weapons....... ;)

And.... weapons are simply greatly open, as well as new planes and so on, same batche of files, same method for editing.... if you can edit a plane, or QMB, and so on, you can also tweak weapons, it is much easyer than put a cockpit on a AI plane... and be sure that a lot of modders have access to weapons and perhaps few, but some to FM....I personnaly never fly on HL.... but i read some post here or elsewhere and.... i am affraid that is just the beginning and be sure that my mods are just like snowwhite compared with the alliens you will see in HL.... sorry, can do nothing to avoid that. never been in my hands. Never opened the box and never put cheat files on the net.

But tools are freely available for everybody..... don't know what can happen, sorry for you.

Regarding: Links
Page 27 post #263
Page 27 post #265
LW_Crap sent multiple private messages including link.
Page 29 post #286
Page 30 post #292
Page 32 post #318 only bad link I found and repaired today check edit time
So, please try to read the posts a little better if you plan on responding to them.

Regarding requests to post links to weapons mod or aimbot (if it exists)... It’s not going to happen by me. If an admin of AAA says they have proof that someone there has been passing around cheat mods, I beleive him. If the weapons hacker and his loyal friends say they have them, are sharing them and its easy for others to do, I believe them. Unfortunately, they and this forum are making it easier and easier.

I think I’ll start watching more interesting threads like the “dot dot dot” one :-)
This one has gone from people originally believing CRT was “safe” to now people requesting links to the cheats and giving more and more details on weapons mods.

It’s been hacked and some modders cheat. It’s a fact. Let’s see what 409m server brings and move forward...

Post of the year LOL

First off, I think that it is great and gives me some hope that you can correct some things like that. Please don't think I am trying to give you a hard time. I was just pointing out that it has been done when someone said it wasn't. :) I just wish there was a single entity that could perform quality control so that EVERYONE could have the same thing online and keep out the bad stuff. For now though, as much as I'd like to, I can't use that stuff online. :(

Repost of a question asked never answered a few pages back..

Tell me please uf_josse......
What guncam film did you use to set up your mod to validate your changes of a .50 vs. the Ki-61-I?
Which version of the Ki-61-I was it, including serial number as the armor varied greatly throughout the series and only a specific s/n will give thicknesses and locations?
What was the energy the .50 cal. round was producing?
What was the hardness of the armor and its chemical composition as well as associated manufacturing processes to determine hardness and how brittle the armor was.
At what deflection angle and through what outer components did the round pass first?
What actual TAIU or other test reports did you use to confirm your findings?
etc.?

Naturally I'm sure you're doing the same with each and every aircraft, type of round, type of MG, considering each and every deflection, range, energy state, pass through, round deformation and so on....

K2

Thats pretty much my point. While he has the ability to make small changes and thats great, there needs to be more than one person and documented research to back up the changes. In the end, a designated and trusted group for quality control to guarantee consistency and as much historical accuracy as available given what we have in the game. Not just that, a way to ensure that everyone is using the same thing and not a mixture of different things representing 73 persons view of what they think is correct.

DejaVu, Billfish.

He ignored your questions a few pages back and I really hope he continues to do so.

Do you actually think he, or Oleg or anyone on this planet actually checks damage parameters for individual serial numbers of a plane type when making weapons?

Are you suggesting that whoever does weapons lethality should model it for each individual aircraft?

Let's see, about 300,000 planes were made by all parties in WWII, do you want a seperate damage model done for each?

The most funny, is that i allready answered ;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=298

Just had to read :rolleyes:

How do you modify belts to include certain ammo? Are they already in the game and you are just adding them or do you have to actually model parameters to make the ammo? Just interested to know.

they are many types of amo for the 50 in the game.. (AP, API, HE and so on)

I just select the values of API and paste them on other bullets ;) so, all bullets have same properties IE those of the API ;) the most simple modification...

For other, like breda, you have 3 differents muns possible.... change parameters like power, radius, speed if needed, caliber, tracer.... to obtain certain kinds of ammo...(testing tomorrow with APi/APIT/HEIT like seen in docs by italian peoples)....

Ok, what I don't understand if API was already modeled in game why was it not included in the US aircraft ammo loadout? For some reason I thought it wasn't modeled.

They are some API in belts, but the purpose of my mod was to put ONLY APi.....

Don't know the reason at all.... :rolleyes:

But results are interesting and showing great differences between the differents DM...... Some japanes planes are highly (too ?) flammable..... but depending.... ki 61 resist much better than zero (normal), but, generally, german planes resist generally much more..... it is not allways so easy to shoot down a FW...... perhaps marketting reasons ? don't know at all. SO, i like to see sometimes FW burning (rarelly, but happen), or 109 just have little smoke, slow rolling and... falling to ground instead explode or show great pyrotechnics effects....

(sorry, my english is very poor, hard for me to good describe what i mean....)

Billfish, I saw your question to josse. I’m sure he can come up with some documentation to interpret it his way. However, I don’t see how it’s relevant.
Even if someone could prove that his weapons hack is perfect and as close to the original rounds as can be, it would still be WRONG.
It’s wrong for many reasons.
It’s wrong because Oleg didn’t give him permission to hack it.
(Oleg, correct me if that’s changed)
It’s wrong because no majority group of online flyers elected josse to correct weapons for IL2.
It’s wrong because he and his friends are sharing it and showing others how.
It’s wrong because some are abusing it online.
The list can go on and on.
It’s wrong because... It’s WRONG. If it were perfect, it would be perfectly wrong.

In all the years I’ve been flying IL2, I have never seen a weapons hack ntrk like the one here. As soon as he releases a weapons hack and brags about it for attention, wham, we have mod guns in servers immediately. I find it hard to believe it’s a coincidence and not somehow at least related.

Some will say but but but there are other hackers who have the tools and know java. I’m sure there are, but those hackers at least kept there mouth shut and we didn’t notice their weapons in online severs immediately. Just because someone makes a “tool” or a baseball bat, it doesn’t mean that people can pick it up and bash others over the head with it. Please don’t tell us the but but but others hacked it first crap.

Josse, could you please climb into your java and go to all corners of the web and retrieve all of your hacked guns that you have allowed to be downloaded by the dishonest players. While you’re at it please retrieve all of the mods of your mods. Please ask those people to forget what you have already taught them. If you miss a couple of the honest players we don’t care, but be sure to get the ones back from the dishonest people.

To whom it may concern: If you’re playing with yourself offline and feel your gun is too small and need to enlarge it to reach satisfaction… please keep it to yourself.

If API, and it is, was already modeled in game, why in the hell did Oleg decide to keep it the way it is for the .50 cal weapons? It makes NO sense to me and now I'm pissed! lol

This is how a lot of the community is starting to feel about some things. These simple things that could have been done but we were told it is imposible.

Glad you said that, as yes, Maddox games most certainly did....Was it in their initial research? Most likely yet to the naturally limited degree of a single person or group. What they did do however was very willingly take subsequent data collected by numerous community members and apply it.

The proof? Numerous changes to numerous weapons when they were supplied with REAL DATA not just "a cuz I thinks it is not right". I can also tell you for a fact that changes were also made to FM's, DM's, Weapons, Ammunition, Armor and so on three simple examples being the "loss" of Ki-61 rudder trim, the activation of Ki-61-I-Hei fire extinguishers, and the addition of self sealing armor proofing to the Ki-61 fuel tanks though the difference between models and their level of protection applied by 1c I cannot say deffinatively........All of those changes inspired from my research......You also must realize (as I'm quite sure you do), that once production numbers based upon s/n that applies to change points and models is supplied, a decision must be made.

That decision requiring to take into consideration the percentage of aircraft having each change, how prevalent was it in combat, is it better to show the difference between models or have them so similar there is no reason to have another and so on.....As an example the Ki-61 has 3 models in the sim....The differences though minor to extreme have nothing to do with what you see.....Yet they did affect the planes performance which we do notice, weight being a good example of that.

Was every change made? Nope, in fact quite a few were not. Yet they were not due to the degree of work it would entail to apply them........Now, that's 3 aircraft in the sim, those changes made while all the others had folks hammering on 1c about their own faves.

I can also tell you for a FACT that a Breda SAFAT round has no where near the power or effectiveness of a Browning .50 Cal., it doesn't even stand up to a Ho-103 of the Japanese, accuracy also very well documented YET....It's basically "just a cuz".

He also subsequently to my question answers only...."But results are interesting and showing great differences between the differents DM...... Some japanes planes are highly (too ?) flammable..... but depending.... ki 61 resist much better than zero (normal), but, generally, german planes resist generally much more..... it is not allways so easy to shoot down a FW...... perhaps marketting reasons ? don't know at all. SO, i like to see sometimes FW burning (rarelly, but happen), or 109 just have little smoke, slow rolling and... falling to ground instead explode or show great pyrotechnics effects"......

Yet that gives absolutly no reason why he feels that........As to the Ki-61 however, I can tell you precisely.

...and that's the point, changes are being made as to "feel & want"....and though Josse is making them to what he "believes" they should be by feel, he is also "showing" people how to make what they "want".....and many "want" something much more then what was actual.....Like swapping out rounds in a belt.

So let me ask this then....Of the 3 rounds offered in the Browning .50, which does the most damage in the sim and was that what all planes used?

Now remember, only those who use this mod online have that adjustment.....Think that's right?....

This has become a very, very, very tiresome excuse.....As everyone understands language barriers and the explinations have been given over and over.

Point blank it has been explained by Oleg over and over throughout the years that....

To make certain changes required more work then they had time to do....
To make certain changes would mean the sim would never of grown as to content.....
To make certain changes were beyond the sims capability....
To make certain changes would cause imbalance (as in how come the FW has 500 diff. bombs to chose from yet the P47 has 3)....
To make certain changes would require reworking every plane in a particular way....
etc..

If you cannot understand why every single want or correction is made upon demand by a small group trying to generate new product to generate a paycheck to survive.....Then it's time for many here to discover what it's like to get paid by results, not hours.

How the world works....Even the company anyone here works for whether you realize it or not.

So "No, it cannot be done" is a fine answer....Means for whatever reason be it the software, time, or keeping a sense of balance they could/would NOT do it......No is as accurate and good an answer as yes.

K2

So, as discuss here lead nowhere, as i feel exhausted by those fruitless discuss, i now move to my next works .....

I have exposed how i feel and work, time to go on in my todo list......

Have fun, and happy new year,

Cheers,

Josse

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...eys/thumbs.gif

uf_josse, if your work is as dedicated as your old skin mods at il2skins -- assuming same josse -- many people will enjoy your mods. I often used some of your skins back when I played the sim.

For almost five years running that I have observed, a certain minority of hostile behaving anonymous public server computer gamers have been accusing Oleg's Offline and Online play customers of "wanting to cheat online" for desiring additional customizing or modding abilities in this sim.

There is nothing new under the FB sun. :grin:

Welp, guess i'm not getting a simple answer to my simple questions....

I didn't see any 'simple questions'. All I saw was you on a soap box, and if not actually lieing about Josse's mod. at the very least distorting and using things out of context.

"Breda where dramaticaly too weak...... they were surely much less powerfull like .50, but..... not so that it was in game.... they are actually circa 40% weaker with my mod, seem to me not exagerated and corresponding to real datas.(power at muzzle was circa 10000 joules IRL and much less in game.... 0.50 had 0.97g of chemical charge, and HE breda 0.88g..."

Does THAT look famaliar, or when you got to that point, did you do the optical equivilent of sticking your fingers in your ears, and chanting "La, la, la, la", so you couldn't hear/see it?

We need to find a way for both sides to peacefully co-exist. Standing on a soapbox spouting lies and half truths isn't going to help that come about. If you aren't going to be a part of the solution, then at least don't hinder those that are trying to find that solution.

"Mods" didn't kill CFS1, and they won't kill IL2. Most games on the Zone back then clearly stated what was allowed in them. There were plenty of 'Stock only', 'MOD only', 'Stock or Abacus only', 'landing only-no shooting' games. It worked there, and it worked quite well. Sure, there was the occasional idiot that would come into a 'stock room' with a mod, or into an Ark Royal room and start shooting, but we just booted them, and if they became too big a problem, made sure in the chat area that everyone was made aware of who was doing it, and the rest of the community shunned that person as well. Are you saying that the IL2 community can't do the same thing?

Like I said someplace else. We know from past history in CFS1 & 2, that those that are going to cheat to 'win at any cost' aren't going to use a mod with just a minor increase in performance. If they aren't good enough to win at stock, an extra 10% or so isn't going to help them. They always used something that was quite blatent and were easy to spot. The same thing will happen here.

A lot you you folks are spending a lot of time and energy having temper tantrums about the mods. You would better served to direct that energy into helping find a solution, as opposed to resisting something that is now here, and isn't going to go away.

Hon, sorry, yet I started disregarding your posts as well as a few others long ago...Quite frankly besides deliberately or not misreading my posts, yours have seemed nothing short of rants. So I don't waste my time.

K2

True... but are you part of the solution?
Seems to me you're more negating the problem than helping to find a solution.

Please.... I did play CFS1 and CFS2 on the zone also... and it's certainly not comparable to IL2, with only one game mode (furrball), game limited to 16 players max, even less for CFS1, nothing comparable to IL2 online wars, etc...
At that time I was playing "no mod"... and had sometimes hard time to find a free slot in a stock-game server. Since there was much less onliners on the zone than there is today on HL, and that there was the distinctions you gave, it was'nt so easy to good server to play.
Very quickly we went to the only practicable solution that was to play squad vs squad at scheduled hours on dedicated server... that way we could play the game we want, and stay away from cheaters... but that was the ONLY Way.
Hopefully, it's since 6 years totally different on HL, you can fly coop (something unknown with CFS1 and CFS2), which are much more interesting than furrball servers, with the online wars, you can play many games an evening, and if temporarilly there's no interesting coop to fly, you can jump in a objective dogfight server like "Spit vs 109", or another... without (until recently) any fear to find a supersonic spit firing 10 75mm guns.
What you suggest... is to return to CFS1 and CFS2 time.... this is precisely what the onliners that know both world DON'T WANT.
I have quite a good remembering of that time, and a good remembering of how please I was when IL2 and HL came and brought a revolution to the online style of play.

Maybe mods didn't kill CFS1 or CFS2 (even if myself and many other tried mods and came back to stock because they didn't want to sort the huge mess of the "no quality control" mod world).... but IL2 surelly did kill both...(with or without mods).
And sorry... no... I'm happy to live in a modern world... no way I want to regress and come back to prehistoric way of gaming.

Wrong... I still remember the squad forums flame wars about cheats that were difficult to spot (like slight unsynchronisations, etc...) Some squad just stopped to play against each other and even to talk with others after these flame wars.
Seems you remember from this time only some kind of "happy flower time", and forgot all the problems that arose there and there.
Of course there were idiots entering a game with a starship destroyer replacing a spit... and of course that was easy to spot... but that was hardly the only way to cheat.
Do you remember the flame wars and insult contests about "fuel dumping" for example?.... seems not...

Agree with this 100% It isn't going to go away, and some solution should be found for online problem (at least... since you talk about "solution", you agree there is a problem... that's a good step for mutual understanding...)

Now... do you have a proposal for a solution ?? (other than negating the problem or suggesting to go back to online infancy)

To save myself much precious time (I wasted a lot of time going through page after page a couple weeks ago in this thread) has there been ANY videos posted that show undeniable proof of cheating using the hack?

Yes...plus posts stating clearly via many non-intended to cheat mods that imbalance play due to giving those using them an unfair advantage. Yet it doesn't take a genius to see that they would.

K2

Thank you. Now I will have to find them.

Rama, you seem to suggest that if one doesn't pose a solution to the problem they shouldn't post, well, where is your solution?

Well, I have watched three tracks. I must say that I am not pleased with those that feel they have to have a blatant unfair advantage over others. Bearcat mentioned earlier in this thread that most of us are over 30 and there SHOULD be a certain maturity level in this sim and its' online play. I surely hope that none of our "mature" members are doing this. I can see the younger folks doing it but not the older ones. Please don't tell me that some of our older members are doing this. It breaks my heart to see that planes and tanks can be taken out from MILES away with machine guns, and seeing that whole formation of bombers being obliterated in an instant turns my stomach that some people feel great about playing this way. As for myself (and I tell my sons this all the time) I can NEVER feel good about winning if I haven't played on a LEVEL playing field. Do NOT cheat. You are only cheating yourself. You want to do well in this sim, or in life, then it will take a lot of work. Ok, boys, you can go play now.

No I didn't - but after OldBuzzard words "If you aren't going to be a part of the solution, then at least don't hinder those that are trying to find that solution", I understood he was among the ones who try to find one... so I asked if he had something to propose.

That's OK Babe. Just keep your fingers in your ears, and keep chanting "La, la, la".

I don't know who Daichidicki is, but i'd suggest he's stirring it.

As posted on the 'other' website.

If in fact this forum Daichidiki is the same online Daichidicki that has been banned on *mod* servers for bad behavior, i'd say whatever accusations he has are null and void by his own actions - the existance of a 'aimbot hack' or mod doesn't give validation for any person to use it online to prove his/her stand-point.

You can't prevent the mod from existing, you can prevent yourself from using it, however.

My appologies, I kinda jumped in the middle there, it was early in the morning for me and I should have refrained from posting until I had had more coffee, lol.

Bandit Bill, good call m8!

While I don't know who Daichidicki is; I have to mention that the post about his being banned is mis-quoted. He wasn't banned for using the "aimbot" but rather for flying a Lerche (which he posted tracks to here in this forum under the nik Santa Clause) that was not a part of the planeset for that server (again something shown in the tracks he posted).

While the tracks clearly show that he knows how to cheat (which was the point of the post) most of his posts seem to support the anti-mod crowd.

Just my take on things.

wg

Keep in mind other catagories that seem to be overlooked.

For some, there is a huge difference between a mod and a cheat.

Someone could be "anti-mod", "pro-mod", "anti-cheat" or "pro-mod-anti-cheat".
There are also some that are just "pro-cheat" :(

Some catagories can find common ground, while others will not.

your being hypocritical, since you personally directly fund the il2 hackers

and if Daichi posted some tracks or screenshots in this thread of how easy it is to use unauthorized planes on some full real servers, good for him, that what this thread is for !

was his post inconvenient for you ?

A better question would be is it inconvenient for you to find an actual cheater then point to an anti-modder who is cheating and using the same tools he attacks to try to prove that cheating exists?

Well if you want to get personal:Yes I have contributed to that site,me and several others.Maybe even you,as you are a member of that forum,just under another name.I have nothing to hide.So zapatista,it looks like you actually support known cheaters now? A known cheater will never have my support,yet you seem to support him.Strange.And you seem to know more about cheating than most of us here,so maybe you have another agenda?
Proof of cheating is not inconvenient to me,in fact it is what I asked for at the beginning of this thread.Everyone was saying how the game was ruined,they had all got proof of cheating online,and the sky was falling.Yet when I had the temerity to ask people to post the proof they all had so we could all see the scope of the cheating we had various answers ranging from 'oh you can't actually see it' to 'well I have proof on my hard drive but I am not going to post it here!'

@Jg52Uther

the cheater you´ve mentioned had the callsign daichdiki, the poster here in this thread calls
himself daichidicki.
That is not the same and maybe you are wrong in calling him a pro-cheater, especially as his posts are anti - hacking.

It is the same poster, i'll leave it at that.

I'll also say, that all is not as it seems, from either a pro- or anti-modders perspective.

:)

So you are laughing about cheating,yet act like you are against cheating.Strange.
And you can find numerous posts from me,all written in good faith at the time.So, it appears that I was wrong about you,and you were just a cheat all along.

I apologise. I should have been more clear. A different emoticon may have been better.

I'm not laughing at you. I was smiling with approval of your post that was quoted.

You got that right.All is definately not as it seems here.

If I would have said "... those of US that are ..." you would have been correct. However that isn't what I said.

I don't have the technological skills to come up with a solution, but I'll not stand in the way of those that do.

Is that too much to ask of ANYONE that enjoys this game?

I use the mod offline, and in some places online (where it's allowed, and EVERYONE is using it), and I like it much better than the 'official version'. Especially with the planes that were AI only and are now flyable. Having those aircraft available opens up a whole new dimension, especially in co-ops.

As for FM/DM/Weapon changes, I'm totally opposed to making ANY change whatsoever to any plane that Oleg released as FLYABLE. Even for the AI's now flyable, I'm not in favor of FM/DM changes unless it's absolutely necessary.

As for the 6DOF/4DOF row, I'm staying out of that argument. I don't have/use TIR to start with, so that means that I'm at a disadvantage in either case.

I actually agree with some of the 'non mod' concerns. We DO need a way for those that wish to use the 'pure version', and be assured that someone with the 'mod version' isn't interfering with their game. However, just standing on the side and screaming "Witch, burn him!" isn't going to help come up with a solution. It's going to take people from BOTH sides getting together and helping EACH OTHER.

what is it with hack kiddies having a lack of ability to think in a straight line for even 60 sec.

1) this thread's specific purpose is to demonstrate how easy it is to cheat with the new hacks, because the hack kiddies themselves claim it is impossible and all they want to do is paint flowers on their 109's and sing kumbaya
2) a person named Daichidicki makes several anti-hack posts in this thread
3) a few screen shot are posted with somebody using a nick similar to Daichi which simply show proof how easy it is to fly restricted planes on full real servers (ie checksum 2 doesnt prevent it)

and now wait for it ..........

4) uther who directly financially pays the hackers to support them, and promotes here openly that stealing from oleg and vandalizing his property is ok, now suddenly this same uther says that Daichidicki shouldnt post here

no free prizes for detecting the irrational step in the argument

steal (TAKE AWAY) Show phonetics
verb [I or T] stole, stolen
1 to take something without the permission or knowledge of the owner and keep it:

So what exactly has a Mod user taken?

Or are you just being rude and agressive (again) for the simple reason that you would prefer all legitimate purchasers of IL2 to be restricted to using exactly the same install of the game as you do?

Jason:

I'd just leave it alone from here on out. The anti-modders are intractable, the pro-modders are equally so.

Responding to Zap's childish insult-laden posts is just pouring more words onto a post that is going nowhere, fast. I don't know about you, but i personally left the schoolyard name-calling in the dim past 30 years ago.. if zap et al are still stuck back there, then let them have at it, alone. They can argue with themselves for all i care.

As i've indicated earlier, there appears to be more than meets the eye going on here, in terms of this pro-modder/anti-modder slag-fest on this forum, and the 'other' forum.. and it doesn't sit well with me at all. Uther has only confirmed what i also was PM'd.

It matters to me not one bit any longer what the anti-modders care about this controversy. Sorry about your luck with your 'pure version' v.4.0.* 1946 game online, but i'm going to continue enjoying both my modded and unmodded versions, both online and offline, without really a care about what these anti-mod zealots think - because in the end, it's just a game, and it's just a spewage of random ascii on forum topics, that should have been moderated or locked down long ago.

Have fun. Thats what is important. If you can't have fun with the present situation, well it sucks to be you. Just move on and stop the whining. There are far more important things in life to get all bent about - this isn't one of them.

what really gets twisted here is the impression that there are "anti - modders".
Here, as far as i can see, are no "anti - modders" !!!!!
What some people see as "anti - modder" are people who are just ANTI - CHEATER !!!
As i see it everybody can change his game any way he (or she) likes just as long as he
(or she) doesn´t uses this "improvements" online to have an advantage!!!!!
Some of those mods or hacks or however really improve the game and as long as everybody
in a given Game uses it there is no problem.
The problem is and was that now you have to trust people in online games because the hacks made it so easy to cheat.
And one thing is shure: where there is competition there are cheater, and that is not only online.

You guys are just the biggest bunch of uniformed Dorks, yeah that's right Dorks. You think you know everything but you just have a few facts and not very well documented and you go off threatening everyone whom YOU are sure cheats. Here's a small tidbit for you to chew on.
I Have posted on that Forum and under the name Chebawookie so you can check them yourself.
I was under the impression at first that the Mods were cool, even useful as career or single player mods. I didn't think people were really cheating 'cos there's no way anyone could get past the CR=2 and how would you be able to use a Me-410 on a server where none was available? But I changed my mind, in fact I was using Jonesoft generic Mod enabler to switch between versions so I could retain my games integrity and therefore not be using the mod on servers not allowing it, But then something happened and my eyes were opened. Servers are insisting that Hyperlobby be used above direct IP Joining, All Seeing Eye or any other method, Personnally I've always refused to use it, Heard bad things about it, just plain didn't like it.
Now I have documented proof. I tried it myself and HL allows cheating, Mod enabling, Hacks, whatever label you prefer. HL will get past all the checks and NO-ONE can detect it. I was sick of reading the endless tripe from all the people at both forums and even when I tried to ask the Triple A guys to be mindful of it they descibed themselves as intelligent folks who would'nt consider cheating but I'm the bad guy for saying something. FU! I've been playing since R6 on win98 I've seen my share of Hacks and cheats. and my clan the Knights of the Round Table wont cheat Hack or do anything that gives an advantage over people who play fair. I'm absolutely sick to death of the childish BS that abounds by the faceless Hide Behind the Monitor Types who talk trash about modding and Hacking, If your so GD Smart than do something about it, If you know how to get to the developer of HL get them to work something out, and stop bitcchin about it here!

With all due respect, Hyperlobby isn't supposed to stop cheats, hack, mods or whatever you want to call it? Hyperlobby is simply a program to allow people to join the same servers.

It is the host of the server who has the limited ability to either stop or allow mods, it has nothing to do with Hyperlobby.

Just curious as to what your "documented proof" is? You joined Hyperlobby with a mod enabled and took a screenshot or what?

"uninformed Dorks" Maybe you want to re-think that last post.

Ok maybe I didn't make this clear enough for you to understand me, the Server side settings are useless when HL is used, no matter what checks you use HL will circumvent them , so it may be true HL is not responsible however it is still enabling it to continue. Uniformed Dorks refers to the core group of people who still think that hackers are using some script to allow them to get into games where the mod is not allowed and cheat and going apeshit about how modding cheating hackers are ruining it for everyone. Yes I am venting about the stupid comments made here and at the Zoo as well as in the mod community 'cos everyone thinks that their opinion is the last and most important one , certainly my opinion could be wrong but it is only my opinion and by stating it, I now have to listen to your side: valid , or not and accept your side which you have a right to state but don't attack the messenger just hear what he has to say then decide, like maybe: "really I did not know this, thank you" or "this is old news and doesn't matter "

If that were true we wouldn't be having this discussion...Online players could have the floor to themselves and discuss whether Stronger Server administration or a third party developed server side file checking system would be the best way to protect future online play...

Unfortunately there is a gaggle of Online players who consistantly insult and offend anyone who believes in third party modification.
If they would just concede that use of third party modifications in either an Offline or controlled Online setting was acceptable and that the work of the developers of community generated Mods is an positive addition to the game we could all shake hands, smile and get abck to enjoying the game we all love.

As long as people like

Zapatister
El Laurens
Strewth
Rave
Baron

say things like

Then the debate will continue its long and tedious path...

LoL, keep spinning it, it might even come true some day. I could quote pages of insulting remarks from the "other" side all day long if u like.

And if u find a question insulting, dont awnser it AND dont pretend like its an insult..its a question, and a sarcastic one at that....learn to tell the differance and u`ll save us all time and energy.

And despite what u think, its post like this one from u, a post that spinns things to suite your own needs that keeps the ball rolling, nothing else.


Oh, and one more time just for u: The day some of "us" will agree and say "good job cracking the code to the ONLY online WWII combat flight sim out there" will be the day hell freezes over.

I could stop playing this game tomorrow and move on and i STILL wouldnt agree.


But u keep on pretending like u are the offended one...u give me a good laugh every time.


And finally, if u dont like beeing "insulted" dont talk about things here that will get u just that...if a question is an insult that is, a sarcastic question mind u. Im not saying what u can and can not talk about anywhere..but what do u expect? U got your awnser about what pople here at 1C think about this, if u want everyone to agree with u move on to the AAA site..its really that simple. Get over the fact that not everyone will agree with u and your friends no matter what u say, get over it and move on. Maby to the AAA site?

heres the Spin? Is it or is it not true that rather than agree that the problem with any and/or all Online cheating lies solely within the onnline community itself...the minority of online players have flipped the issue on its head...blaming Offline users of community generated Mods...making IL2 unique amongs all Simulators...a game where the production of new and improved free content by the community is critisised by a proportion of users?


How is this keeping the ball rolling...I, one of the most vocal on this thread and others agreed quite happily that the debare would become null and void if online players would agree to one simple and to me plainly obvious fact...The problem with Online CHeating is the sole responsibility of Online players...I for one don't see that as debatable!

Think thats been covered before. I for one wouldnt even know where to begin with that goldie.

So Offline players are responsible for causing Online Cheating?
I'd be interested in you explaining the mechanism for that...
If not, then as I said...the problem with online cheating is caused solely by and is solely the responsibility of, online players...

Yes, and the problem with murders lies soley in the hands of the murdurer.


Whats your point?


At least I didnt give the dude a gun.


Its irrelevant remarks like that that keeps the ball rolling.


P.S. Feel free to say im comparing modders to a killer....we need 20 more pages.

So why is this discussion going on in this thread,which looking at the title is for tracks only.There is another soundmod thread for discussion!How many threads do you want?

What keeps it rolling is the fact that you cannot accept basic facts that stare everyone else in the face...
My last two posts have stated something as un-controversial and obvious as "Online cheating is solely caused by Online players"
There should be no debate or questioning of that...yet twice you have posted questioning or trying to ameliorate that statement...
I will take it by your somewhat outlandish allegory (Online Cheaters = Murderers) that you don't have a mechanism by which Offline players can cause Online cheating...So i'll assume you agree with me on the statement "members of the Online Community are the only ones that can cheat other Online Players"
Unless you wish to disagree with that staement as well?

Ask a simple question.

if cheater=murderer with pistol then hacker= giving pistols away for free, regardless of the problems that will start.

Problems only start if somone wants to commit a crime...or in this case if someone wants to cheat...
Just as a pistol securely locked away in a display cabinet in my study doesn't affect anyone...nor does my using the Sound Mod offline or with my friends in a peer to peer game.
Similarly if someone is going to commit a crime...they will do so...if they haven't got a gun they'll use a knife...if they haven't got a knife they'll use their fists...so will a cheater who wants to cheat...they did before the Sound Mod and they can do so without the Sound Mod.
It doesn't make people cheat...anymore than owning a gun makes someone a murderer!

So?

Archie Way to go...4 posts and 3 of them moaning about what other people are saying...
If you're not interested don't read it and save yourself the trouble of replying!

Not at all jasonbirder.I am just interested in why you continue to post in this thread,which seems to be just for tracks of people cheating,when there is another thread running to talk about soundmodding/hacking.So why sre you posting in this thread,rather than the other one?

actually I believe the correct phrasing is..

"Ask a stupid question.." :)

Why is it stupid? The title of this thread is
Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:

So why are people having a discussion here,instead of the soundmod thread?

It just makes it easy to become a cheater when before it was just too difficult to improve just a little bit to "level" the playfield

Interesting!

so zap was daichi was baron? so what's been going on then, been away for a bit... i note that evidence has been posted of cheating actually occuring (not by the main protagonists of this "discussion" of course). any idea on if this is an epidemic to kill online or merely the preserve of a few kiddies who have adhd and can't learn how to fly properly?
and archie, the discussion mainly centred around "show proof please" "no, i know it's happening, you do as well so i won't show proof" "but i haven't seen proof anywhere else, post it please" "no" etc etc etc