Without icons it is extreamly difficult to see aircraft at a distance in the game normally. Much worse then real life. Look at it this way. Is it also fair for some players to have higher resolution and bigger computer monitors to see planes a whole lot better in the distance or faster internet connections and much faster computers and video cards that make their planes perform a whole lot better and further then someone that can't afford these things?

Just my opinion. When I use to play Battlefied 1942 on a slower computer and with a slower internet connection I got my butt whipped regularly by people who could afford as good equiptment as computer companies made. Nothing fair about that either... :(

If everyone started off equally in the games you might have a point but this isn't the way it is.... :( You have the same options though buy a better system or download the improvments. Actually the downloads are free. The newer computer system isn't... The download is a much more fair option because of that IMO.

Well, that's a point... Isn't it also unfair to play online with Track-IR, and a good set of pedals-stick against people that can't use them? ;)

Because like I said.. I refuse to talk out the side of my neck... I am waiting to hear more from Oleg & 1C on the matter.

Bearcat, I understand your concerns, but they are without base. I will not have advantage over you and I will not see you better then you can see me. Planes are not reflective (that is impossible in il2fb), and are not shining and glowing in the dark. In the dark you can see them only when there is moon of course, like till now was. What was done? Specular light “dot pitch” is decreased to value of 16 it was by default 4, and on some planes light intensity was raised very little. The result is darker planes but with better overall natural look (some of them are hopeless and in a fact now looking worse) The effect also is very depending on weather, sun settings, your quality settings, very much of skin used and above all of angle from which you are watching plane.

But let the picture speak for a thousand words.

All pics cropped not resized or edited. Map Normandy, time 13:30 weather: good. Graphic card Nvidia 6600LE, antialiasing 8X (using free utility NVHardpage). Credits and respect to skin artist and Oleg of course for this wonderful simulation

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...o1/Hariken.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...aNo1/Meser.jpg

Could be if all came into it believing all others did not.....Yet here it's assumed that to have those things is S.O.P....I have no TIR or pedals and probably a sub par stick and no hotas....Yet when I fly I assume all others do have the higher quality items, as the sim is designed with them in mind from the developers, YET it does not harm me as I have worked out my own system (JS/Mouse/Keyboard) to work well for me.

In kind those things simply enhance "that" persons play though giving them an edge debatable.........Yet in contrast if a single mod is able to be utilized by one, then a whole host of others, MANY most deffinately cheats now have the ability to be utilized as well and are. So in contrast INSTANTLY the curve shifts and to extreme degrees......

As I see it you can choose to mod or not. Doesn't cost a thing. Many people can't choose to upgrade their computers. You can avoid the question by spinning the story any way that you like but a newer much faster system with a bigger monitor and all the perks is a REAL ADVANTAGE in on-line play.

and I really doubt people would be willing to put any handicaps whatever on their super duper top of the line systems to make it a real level playing field.

Better systems do enhance play Billfish. In this there is no doubt. I have gone online with sub-par systems and really good systems and the difference was like night and day.

Well I just upgraded to a 22" lcd monitor from an old 17" crt. I see dots much easier now,and that makes me feel more of a 'cheat' than anything I could download off that site.

i want that tripple head to go thingy to have 3 screens but that may make me feel like im am cheating

exactly...

say you make a three screen display and a complete cockpit with rudder pedals and the whole works. That isn't giving you an unfair advantage? How about an 8000 to 10000 dollar super computer rig too....

This doesn't seem to bother the no-mod people whatsoever...

Ask yourself this when considering the "level playing field" debate;
1. To use TrackIR, does the code have to be broken first - No
2. To use Hotas/pedals, does the code have to be broken first - No
3. To use a larger monitor, does the code have to be broken first - No
4. To use multiple monitors, does the code have to be broken first - No
5. To use "mods" does the code have to be broken first - YES
6. Can anyone use the numbers 1 through 4 without the code being changed - YES
7. Can anyone use number 5 without the code being changed - NO

and that gents/ladies is the crux of the matter, whether or not the code is compromised/changed to gain an advantage.

Whether a person can/cannot afford a bigger this or that is not relevant in this debate, the point being that the game "supports" them natively, whereas the game does not support "Mods" natively.

That's my 2 bobs worth

Cheers

Goanna

you seem to be way more worried about the code then a level playing field whatsoever at all..


How about this we hand you a sub-par system and see what you worry about first, mods or trying to use a sub-par system agains't people who can afford to use the very best...

Your the one who is obviously more then a little native here....

cheers to you Mr. Oblivious.. "not relevant in this debate" get real....

Give me one person who would give up his high end computer and monitor and Track Ir over having no mods in the game.

I can tell you right now if someone says they would they are a bald faced liar..

I don't know where you got the idea that it is easier to see aircraft in real life. That is the biggest crock of S*** I've ever heard! lol Stalker, I am not trying to be disrespectful, so please do not take it that way. I am a real life pilot and flying aircraft is how I make my living. Some others in my squad are professional pilots as well. One of the BIGGEST things we comment on is how unrealistically easy it is to spot aircraft in IL2. We probably comment on that nightly. If you want an idea of something that is closer to real life, take a look at lockon. It is darn near ridiculous, the ease of spotting aircraft in this sim. I've talked about this to other RL pilots here and we all say the same thing; I will get a call from ATC giving me distance and direction of other aircraft and we still can't see them until they are close and I have 20/15 vision. Sometimes you may see the glint of the sun on an aircraft at a distance on a very clear day, but that is rare. One thing that is missing here is haze.

Also, if you didn't know, the higher your resolution, the harder it is to see aircraft IIRC.

Well, it has become abundantly clear the end goal regarding these hacks for some is to "level their playing field".....Though in truth gain a bit of an edge. Justifying something giving one an advantage because "bob has more money then I, therefor possibly better equipment, therefor I can do "X" as it brings me to par" is a poor reason/excuse.

Best part is it clearly states that anything to no matter what degree is not off limits. As today it's just to get to a "believed par", tomorrow because you had a bad night so tweak it up a bit more to be at your believed par....and in time you're naturally just the ace of aces due to your superior skills, as naturally everyone else is doing the same.

Sorry....Fact of the matter is I'm probably at the low end as far as equipment.....and to be blunt, I hold my own and then some against those with 2 of everything and all top end.

However Stalkervision, you do state the case for NOT allowing mods quite well whether you realized it or not.

K2

By his own words he shall be pwnd.

I wonder what his next bit of "reasoning" will be?

Funny stuff.

Youd be better off with a 24" WS or better & TIR.. My 2 cents on that..

The rest... I beat that puppy enough. Y'all do what you want to....

You don't get specular reflections in Il-2 like in real life when the glit of the sun reflects off a polished aircraft surface. Actually these reflections were quite common apparently and not rare whatsoever as you say because they are frequently commented on by ww 2 combat pilots. Apparently you have seen this effect very little huh and your a professional pilot with 20/15 vision what??? Private planes aren't camoflaged don't you know also. Many ace pilots were well known for picking out aircraft at increadable distances before their comrades could see the same aircraft. This is a decided advantage in any non-radar air combat. You don't get good movement clues either in il-2 as one would get in real life either.

Were you always this stupid or did you have to take a whole lot of lessons to become that dumb. I have to say one thing for you. You really got your moneys worth... :)

Welp, think I'm done with my probing to get answers as to intentions and the like....So many of the responses absolutly clear, yet one hopes that out of all the evasion and doubletalk some promise will show through....

Fact of the matter is the mods/hacks at this point are clearly a Frankenstein's Monster. Good intentions my guess the original reason, yet in short order the requests by many for something beyond good intent and fair play were responded to with zeal. My guess is the adoration, feeling of power and so on took it to where it is and clearly going......So in the end, as it is already, something that proves out to not be trusted and dangerous to those who hold the sim dear.

Oleg & his team created, and though flawed and lacking in some regards remained trustworthy.....The hacks and their clear direction now simply corruption of that which was pure.

Thankfully also telling much of the players, modders or anti......Inner selves revealed. Trust & respect now able to be correctly applied.......Pity, I had hoped efforts would of been made seeing reason that would of allowed a good solid and equitable resolution for both sides of this issue. Clearly the fears of one now justified by the other.

SV/ How so? you give no reason whatsoever for that opinion, you just ask us to accept this nonsense as is. No, I just put these examples out to show that the field wasn't level to begin with BF. Never has been. Btw, you have not answered my question either. Which would you prefer. A game with no mods or a sub-par low end system? Indeed, some il-2 on-line pilots cheat and they use their wallet to do it. There is no habicapping function in the game to fix that either.


SV/ Yes, indeed that is what the modders all intend to do.. :) Quote your system and we will see how low it is. How does your fps do when you have a sky full of planes? If your low end system was anything like mine when there were too many players it got very slow. It did pretty well when only a few players were playing though. :) How about your internet connection too?


Sv/ Hardly and where you have gotten that completely wacko idea I have no idea whatsoever..

You keep worrying your little mind about all these spurious little mind affecting mods BF. I just hope BOBSOW comes out before you blow a fuse over them.. :)

Let me give you some friendly advice. Don't worry so much about these mods BF..

apparently you do so well with a low end base machine the modders better worry about YOU! :)

This definition of the word cheat from an online dictionary; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cheat
Please explain to a oblivious, native Australian how anyone who has more money in their wallet to spend on a game/game accessories than someone else is a cheat.

Cheers

Goanna

Why you guys spend time eating each others? Please stop.

Pictures of some work is much more interesting to me and many others that read this forum...

Thank you to respect this.

Now lets go to this..

Kursk Original
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/379...knulal2ua9.jpg

Same view new...
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/556...eaulal1ke3.jpg

Again, the fact that you can see aircraft so far off in this sim is just plain "gamey" and not realistic at all. The glint thing is rare as I stated and vision, good or bad has nothing to do with haze and other factors that are not present in the sim. If anything, seeing planes so far off needs to be toned way down. If you won't believe a real pilot that flies most everyday, well, I don't know what to tell you. I think that if you talked to a majority of pilots instead of reading of just a select few, you'd hear the same from the WW2 guys. You can't see planes normally that are 3, 4 or 5 miles out. In here you can see them a good 10k out without even trying. You're more than welcome to stop by our forums and just ask there. I'm just a commercial pilot with my instrument and multiengine ratings. Vidar is one too, except he is a flight instructor as well. He'd be more than happy to explain things. www.bss214.com

Well it all depend what is the task asked.. and area.. in fight good to average pilot will probably see 6 to 8 miles and above distance for better eyes guys. There are different technics ofcourse .

I think that the game is just fine the way it is. I used to have trouble keeping my eye on a aircraft, then I learned to not take my eye off of it. If I do loose sight, I look where it should be, and quickly can pick it up again. Changing the glit factor would make the game less realistic, because those aircraft were painted back then to have low glit, with flat camo paint. I can see where a less experienced, or a lazy pilot, would want the mod

@Stalkervision

are you really implementing that only people with "sub - standard" systems use these Hacks to even out the gameplay?
When i still was playing ADW even people with high end systems tuned their systems way down to get an advantage in spotting the enemy earlier.(I stopped playing there because of to much Hack - Cheating)
Usually at 1024x768 (native for IL2) with 16 bit color and all effects at minimum settings.
At these settings even a "sub - standard" system runs quite well.
And for the internet connection you also mentioned somewhere, a lag is a lag is a lag and no hack will change that.

best wishes

robtek

There are also a number of interesting new maps in development.
This is one which covers Battle of France, Dunkirk, Dieppe Raid and Ardennes 1944 as well as no end of cross channel raid missions. The map extends from Dieppe to Aachen and Sedan to Rotterdam. Isn't this worth having?

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...reenshot-6.jpg

One thing I can quite plainly see from reading the latter part of this discussion is that online players are obsessed with cheating, fairness, level playing fields and dishonesty.
It must be a peculiarly joyless pastime if you can't trust the people you are playing with and you constantly obsess about whether the so called "friends" you are playing with are trying to get "one over on you".

@ jasonbirder

of course the online - community is very interested in fairness and against dishonesty and cheating.
Aren´t you ???
And i can talk only for me, but i wouldn´t call anybody a friend whom i only know online.
When i play online there are players from all over the world and it is statistically unavoidable not to have some dishonest and or cheating people amongst them.
Maybe i wont meet them again if ever, but those people are able to take the fun out of this game at that time for me.

There is another post who shows a new map, now that is a different pair of shoes.
It would really be great to get new maps as they are equal for everybody, but it has to be officially approved by OM and i think with SOWBOB at the Horizon a Channel Map is contraindicated.

best wishes

robtek

On the site where the map work is posted there have been various requests to extend the map west to allow more BoB type scenarios. The mapmaker has stated quite clearly that they do not intend to do this because of possible conflict with OM SoWBoB. The main aim of the map shown is to cover Battle of France, although it will also facilitate other scenarios. In any event I don't think the two are really in conflict because the technical standard of SoW is going to be so far in advance of IL-2.

Its not an issue for me because I never fly on Hyper Lobby Open Dogfight Servers…when I do fly with others its with a few people who I know in the “real world” on a peer to peer basis – so unfairness, dishonesty and cheating aren’t an issue…I don’t have to worry about cheating, I don’t have to worry about bad sportsmanship, bad language or name-calling on teamspeak or stupid comments in the chat line…I can just enjoy it in the company of friends!
The point I was trying to make is that if online cheating is a problem…its not the fault of third party modifications, it’s the fault of people who are using them in in-appropriate situations – and that can only be changed either by stronger sever administration, password only or subscription based servers or by flying with people you know.
As long as you fly with anonymous people in a dogfight server where a “win at all costs” stat driven mentality prevails then cheating or bad sportsmanship is something that will concern you…and that is something that has existed long before the development of the current, third party mods.

+1 I see cheating every time I go into a public dogfight server,every time,and it has nothing to do with mods.

Oh boy you sure got carried away there.The point is false simply because the sim was not meant for open modding.The developper did not open it, so hackers` interference is the source of the chaos that will surely plague online. It was meant to be closed, they opened it, they take the responsibility for destroying online IL2 gaming and BTW the whole online IL2 community. The point is you did not get any kind of developper acceptation on this. Detaching yourself from consequences of such an event is a one big lie. You know damn good that you make damage.



Newsflash dude - your hacker heroes don`t give a damn about preventing the obvious consequences for online playing.
HL is an environment that is you want to fly coops you are sentenced to flying with people you don`t know because at least 16 players are required to make some of it. To make online sessions merely smooth ie. going constantly you need to multiply that number by at least 10. If HL at rushhours counts up to 1200 players then it is much too small to afford closed sessions. Show me someone who knows 160 people online and is 100% sure they won`t cheat.Nothing like that exists in HL. Because for all you know ONE of them in each coop spoils the entertainment FOR EVERYONE.

You and me agree that bad sportsmanship is always there when you keep playin with unknown people.
The difference here is that you don`t know the first thing about online play via HL so you keep making up wrong conclusions based on games with much bigger online crowds.

Wonder how they got the proper altitudes without knowing the altitude coding table in the game....
looks to me much more like "there should be hills there, so I put hills there... don't care if summit is 500m or 2000m...."

Rama -- Do you know that they don't have the altitude coding worked out, or are you just guessing? You seem to be very negative about these mapping efforts, both here and in the Battle of France thread. These maps look like a very interesting development to me. If Bob suddenly gets released then they will quickly become redundant, that's true, but why does that bother you? In any event the information that's being gathered may end up being used for Storm of War in some way in the future. -- and in the meantime its helping to maintain interest in the IL-2 series.

Interesting that this thread is even allowed here at the official 1C forum,when all talk of modding is not allowed at ubi.
1)Either Oleg does'nt care and is actually interested in some of the stuff being done,or
2)He is looking at what needs to be done to lock it down again.
Because of the time constraints with 4.09 personally I think option 1.

Hehe, sry, but u think Oleg dont mind losing money in the end because of hacked game?

Keep dreaming.



And this drivel about level playingfield for thoose who cant afford expensive pc`s and so on.....horseshit i say.

Sounds like an excuse made by someone who neither have the pations or the nack to learn a game, any game...so he finds any excuse to CHEAT.

Anyone who thinks (i wonder who) hacks levels the playingfield is really running out of excuses. LOL.


Next somone gonna say he needs 16 50 cals on the P-47 because every 2 shots fired gets lost because of lag issues. "Hey the dude with the 8Mgb connection has a unfair advantage...whaaaaa" LOL


If u have low/middle end pc/connection u learn how to deal with it, like i and 95% of everybodyelse does.

That's why some of the comments directed at me for at least letting discussion about the subject whyich like it or not is a fact are so ridiculous...

What are you talking about Baron? How can Oleg lose money from il2 because of modding?
The only way he could lose is from the no cd /no dvd files out there.I did not see so much complaints from everyone when they became public knowledge,all I saw was 'where can I get them'.

Selling the rights for ex. to 3:rd party developer in the future is pretty much out the window now...wouldnt u say?

I don't know. Was that Olegs plan all along,to open the game to modding anyway? So if that was the case then online would have died officially instead of ,if you believe them all here,unofficially.

Thats the whole point, we dont know anything about Olegs intentions in the future. Maby he DID intend for 3:rd party modding, mods sanctioned by him? Who knows....thats a moot point by now.

If he doesnt fix the code that is. IIRC he said he wouldnt because there isnt time or resources for it. This isnt Microsoft we are talking about.

That would contradict everything he said across the year.

People who run 1024x768 with low settings have an advantage over me when it comes to seeing aircraft. I run 1680x1050 with max settings and according to everyone I should see dots worse then those running the lower res with lower settings. Now is this fair? Why should I have to reduce my settings just to be on par with the rest? I worked hard for the hardware I have so I can enjoy games in all there glory. Im not approving any sort of mod or anything but making a point that the sim has advantages already built in and should have been corrected long ago. Take trim on a slider, not everyone has hotas with sliders or can afford to run out and grab one, so already they are at a disadvantage.

We still have issues like this among others already built into the game that has been giving some players advantages over others for a long time. And they have been complained and whined about for a long time but now they are over shadowed because everyone is paranoid about a sound mod.

S!

Yes, I know.
And I also know the amount of time and effort to create a map. I was part of the dev of some of the maps.

I don't know if thats all true or not. I read the same posts over at the zoo about how well dots can be seen at different resolutions. I run the game at 1920x1200 but I swear I can see the dots better now than I ever could at any previous resolution or video card/monitor setup. I've played it on 800x600 on upwards over the years but always had an absolute top quality monitor.

Allow me to answer that one for you Uhter...

1) Believe it or not.. 1946 still sells, but i am sure that will stop soon, if not already (who wants to buy hacked sim - raise your hands!)
2) Pulling progamming lead off SOW development - That`s not free either...
3) And possible sale of IL-2 to third party as already mentioned....


__________________________________________________ __________________

Does this answer make sense Uther?

Oh yea... and let me remind you for 1000s time... those who think that they know how to mod IL-2 need to stop kidding themselves and others. Modding requires tools and knowledge... everything else is hacking - end of story :D

Well, ever thought of the possibility that Oleg doesnt tell us everything?


If it where me i would have left IL2 alone after the last announced pach untill after BoB was released and THEN sell the rights to 3:rd party modders (with olegs aproval on sertain things) thus having the 2 best flightssims on the market at the same time.

But thats just me.


Instead he most likely have a soon to be dead IL2 BEFORE BoB comes out and when BoB gets out..everything hinges on that sim`s success

Yvan this is a very interesting point.. Now lets see just something like just the canopy of the FW-190 A8.. This has been asked before in many occasions..

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9740/extviewns5le9.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6...hoodjf0rk9.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/230...yil2qo9ui0.jpg


This is imo a much correct model then the original with the Canopy of the A9..

What i see that there is a lot of little things that are not very good in the mod / hack and others that are good , I have many arguments with a certain famous guy at SIMHQ that make maps and I can tell you that some hackers/moder are making already "better" work with out really the good tools than this simqh's person with tools. I don't know why .... well... hum.. lets not go there..

Now lets take a look at some new textures.. not bad isn't it..

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7699/beta6tp1.jpg\

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2446/lolbo8.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...grab0000-2.jpg

The best like i said before would be to be able to close compile some of this.. I don't think il2 is dead but it's becoming more like BOB2 until some of this get compiled
yes there are many guys that they don't know much about some things i agree with you Yvan but also il2 can and could of be so much better by far....
It is very hard to change very but now lets face it the Third party now have to make things even much better and maybe take some samples of mister Joe-Smock's hack model or ideas.
I agree that it's not good to post links but images that maybe those new third party will take in concideration.. like the A8..? i do..

I do not use il2 no more I do my own stuff.

1) What? Apart from LOMAC eh? Or what about the people desperately trying to find out where to purchase copies of the original EECH once they have seen how much better the modded EECH was than the newly released EECH2. What about Falcon 4? The newest version Falcon 4 Allied Force is based upon the hacked/modded Superpak version - and has been further extensively modded with the "Red Falcon" Mod. What about all the CFS3 nay-sayers who have been purcchasing copies so they can try out the Over Flanders Fields and Mediterranean Air Wars Mods? Or taking it one step further what about the popularity of THe Wings over Europe/Wings over Vietnam etc - all completely moddable?
I guess some "hacked" sims do sell after all...

2) Oleg stated categorically there would be no further resources devoted to 4.09 - thats why the code encryption is not being re-worked, no programming resouces whatsoever have been diverted from BOB-SOW

3) Oleg has stated categorically that he would not licence IL2 for development by third parties

Wow..........alot has happened since I last posted here!

I can understand both sides of the issue. What I do see is a very, very vocal MINORITY, who is worried about what this mod does to online play. Did not Oleg Maddox once say that the MAJORITY of sales of this game is to offline players? If you fly regularly with people you know, what is the problem? It is always a hit or miss afair when you fly on public servers.

Lets see what "whining" from the online crowd has added to this game;

1. Bombs a torpedos that do NO damage after the pilot is killed..... "Oleg, he may use a Kamakaze attack to sink my carrier!" Very, very realistic.......NOT !

2. The LW 30mm boomstick......I seem to remember a post from Oleg a fews years back were he admitted that the ROF for the weapon is too high, but he would not change it for fear of the whines that would happen.

3. No cockpit.............. nuff said, VERY REAL!!

4. Icons............again, nuff said.

Those are to top 4 that I can think of. Yes, I know, items 3 and 4 can be shut off. But then again, 99.9% of the Onwhine(tm) players would not fly.

I heard to other day at the local Media Markt (tm), 2 young guys talking about the mods, both told me that they have BOUGHT the game because of some, not all of the mods that they have seen. The group they play online and at LANS with have decided to get away from the FPS and give a try at this game. One main factor in now buying the game (other than it costs now only 15 Euro), was what this mod has (in their opinion) brought to the game.

BOTH sides have justified beefs for and against what is now happening to the game. What is very sad, is that some people just see ONLY one side of the coin. Very sad indeed.

The old " I am right , you is wrong" attitude. And honestly, it is getting a little sick now. People who I have read posts from and who I thought were smart and upstanding members of the community have turned out to be rather stubborn in their views.

BTW, I have 2 setups, plain vanilla and banna-fudge-walnut sundae version of the game. One for onwhine(tm) and one for offline.

I think some should take a chill-pill and let history run it's course (were as, ALL online games will someday be hacked/modded).


DerAlte

Gozr bragging.....
as usual as on some other forums with Gozr - lots of bragging - and a big nothing coming out of it...

who want's to buy a sim that they can now fly, fight, and bomb with the heavies which they couldn't before? - raise your hands!


i love PBY's, the only way i can fly one is if someone releases it as an addon. when that happens, i buy FSX (for the game engine) and then i get the PBY.

i see this example applying here. Many that want to fly the heavies will now have an excuse to go out and buy IL46 so they can fly them with thier buddies.

excellent post.....two versions HUH? SMART! :)

Same with you RAMA.. a problem? PM me..

No.Where I live sturmo 46 is available freely in the bargain bins.People I know are buying it BECAUSE of the new flyables.
If Oleg has pulled his programming lead off of SoW work to fix 4.09 then that would be interesting news as Oleg has already said he does not have time to fix it.
Last I heard Oleg was not going to release the code to 3rd parties.Obviously you have much more info than we do Ivan,so we must be all wrong and you right.

1. Take a look at HL and tell me how many people you see flying Falcon 4 AF. Yeah, you and one other person. lol EECH2, how many are online with that? IL2 had/has the largest online flight sim community. I'm not sure how that will go now.

2. Oleg did state that there wouldn't be any resources devoted to 4.09. That doesn't mean, however, that he changed his mind on the subject due to the chaos going on now.

3. Oleg stated that third party development would be a possibility. He never said it would never happen. That may have changed now though.

At any rate, you or anyone else can't really dispute anything Ivan puts out on the forums. He's a well known, respectable person that is in the know. The fact that Oleg took leads off SOW to work on 4.09 speaks volumes of what he thinks about all of this. Now, I'm beginning to second guess a lot of my own opinions.

The one problem I see with flying the AI aircraft is that the FM was made for just that, AI to fly. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd really like to know if there is a difference. I believe there is, however subtle it may be.

Allright. I`ll clarify...

Maybe where you live it is bragain Uther. Here it is still 19.99, not a big money... but still.

Oleg said, yes, he will not devote any more resources on 4.09 which is correct... but he meant code protection (encription), not the server side protection. Gotta read what he said carefully ;)

There is nowhere on this board or any other board Oleg stated that outsourcing IL-2 to 3rd party is out of the question. What he said was... they don`t have time to create additional features for 3rd party or train them, which will make modding of IL-2 easier. Currently they are not looking for 3rd party from what i know. In the future - maybe, he never said never.


Look, you can defend hackers all you want guys, they are bunch of nice guys, highly motivated and willing to make everyone here happy... but mark my words, it`s a matter of months before many of you will ask yourself a question... WTF was i thinking. And since it`s pure determination now to have all those so called goodies, i bet if 4.09 is released, quiet a few people will get on breaking what was included in there ASAP... and probably succeed. I promise not to participate in such discussions again. Have it your way..

The hackers could turn out a truly realistic all-of-Europe Map and who-knows-what-else and I still wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten-foot-force-pike. All that screenshot posting isn't going to change that because I disapprove of mods/hacks in general and don't care who did them or what his intentions were.
In my opinion - unless, of course, Maddox Games does introduce something new to the server-side checks - there has to be some kind of "Iron Wall" between the factions - hackers on their side, "purists" on theirs. You can't combine these two factions as each believes in totally different things.

:)


http://www.geocities.com/syrametneil...ents/Ten10.jpg

Thor define "purists" ...

thx

.... any documented cheating online jet ?

Purist = user of an unhacked "Il-2 : 1946" patched to 4.08m (or, in the future 4.09m).

It’s nice!
I installed the .92 version and everything is ok so far, only the text in maps and start-up screen are Russian now. Can this be fixed in next version please!

And as I stated previously I am a simmer not a gamer so I do all flying off-line.

RGR just wanted to be sure purist as untouch files which is different than correct or as well incorrect or anything else. Purist is not equal to better or closer to reality or worse just the original files..

Ok good to know

Anyway a check version system for purist server or a modded version would be very good.. Just a matter of locking with the host

it can be fixed ...PM me please ....

The fact that hackers/modders ( yes, in this case they are one and the same) goes so far as to put any cockpit into an AI ac to get it flyable speaks volumes in my oppinion.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with "fixing" things that are "wrong", its just another case of wanting what u kiddies cant get, plain and simple.

Id hate to be any of your parents at christmas time....really.


Canging a canopy or a bar (to what u THINK is correct with NOTHING to back it up really) is one thing, but u all are STILL completly missing the POINT: "U" cracked the code and thereby STOLE the oppertunity to make those changes.

Keep talking about the upsides, how u all just play offline and onliners are selfless whiners, how u just fixed things that allredy needed "fixing", how u all just wanna help (there`s a laugh), and so on. Fact of the matter is: u dont know what damage u did, noone does, maby u modders just completly fucked up ANY possibility of getting what u all wanted, legaly, simply because u just couldnt wait a little bit longer, noone can know for sure, exept Oleg. If that turns out to be the facts, all i can say is: Way to go dudes.

Just remember, everytime u favor the hacking of IL2 u slap Oleg right in the face....and u morons even go into his "house" to do it. So much lack of respect i dont even know where to begin.

When i think about it i think thats what gets my shorts in a knot the most...the arrogance.

That alone tells me there is NOTHING anyone can say to change you kiddies minds, after all...u are all knowing, right?


Your family and friends must be real proud. I mean, with that kind of knowlage u should be able to make your first million in a matter of weeks, right?


P.S. Yah, i know, taking a moral approach to the problem is waaaay over u peoples heads, u proppably laugh at the very notion.

All i know is just this weekend i saw a red flier respawn and takeoff from blue airfield several times, even shot him down once when he took of from my airfield ( dont know what thats all about, testing maby?)


Nothing more concrete at the moment that cant with some will be blamed on lag and so on, but im sure we will all see more to come.

As it is now i only fly on weekends ( 1 or maby 2 times a week ) so i have no idea what goes on in the weekdays.

Swearing and insults in the same thread Baron.Well done.

Thruth hurts doesnt it.

And like im the only one.......well done singeling me out.

Thx.


Talk about grasping what one chooses and completly ignoring everythingelse...like the fundemental issue for ex.


How about digging through all the bs and consentrate on the core issue?

That being: moders are wrong on every level that has been debated here, no matter what u or anyonelse thinks.


Thats maby why some (me for one) uses harch language, because 1: modders are plain wrong (sry for beeing the one tellling u this) 2: some people choose not to get it. I say choose because noone capable of using/doing mods is that stupid. And finally: People have the arrogance to come here and blab about it...and u concentrate on/wonder why there are insults and swearing...wow.


This makes it a very frustrating situation. Dont know why but the word "Guppy" keeps popping up in my head.


Once again, thx for singeling me out.


BTW. Dont worrie about my "insults" and "swearing" cus i allredy passed the "pissed of" state. Whats the point really. We "selfless online whiners" can rehash the matter over and over again, spell it out in 1 million differant ways from here to sunday, but seriously, whats the point when most of "u" ignores the fact. ( What u think?..should i lay ot the facts ONCE AGAING here...or is it redundant? What u think? LOL )

Gentlemen,

As a matter of fact I didn't see a strong message from UBI or 1:C or Mr Oleg against modders.
On the contrary, evidence is that they at least tolerate mods in order to keep the game alive, and maybe more than this ... Moreover, the only UBI/Oleg forum posts I saw where either neutral or in favor of mods.

My sincere and friendly advise is to try to collect facts, instead of ignite like a rocket on the basis of assumptions ... this would also preserve a spirit of community and avoid dividing ourselves in factions.

As Cicero used to say: "cui prodest?". Who's is getting advantage of mods ? Are mods preventing the sale of one single copy of Il2-FB/1946? Are they instead keeping the interest for this game alive without efforts from the developers? And where technical information for modders is coming from?


Best regards,
Insuber

Baron keep editting your thread as much as you like.Swearing is unacceptable as there could be young people reading this forum.As for the modding,if Oleg is not happy with the thread (it is his companies forum) then it can be deleted.Happy with modding,or unhappy with modding,is irrelevant now.The deed is done.UBI did more to hurt Oleg financially than modding the game at this stage in its life has ever done.
Staggered release dates?
Securom?

nonsense !

its just a new forum with new moderators who try not to immediately use a heavy hand and spank the naughty boys who are rude enough to bring all their hacking crap here.

oleg has already stated his opinion on the hacking, and the damage it has done to his hard work and the il2 community.

Well, you may discuss this aspect of the game, but, please, don't insult each other. All of you are people, who respect theirselves and should respect each other. The only useful thing is a discussion, but not obscene words and the hatred in each word. Respect other members and they will respect you. Hope for the understanding.

Evgeny,

i think that is a mistake and the people hacking the files should be kicked out instead !

the hacking of 4.08 causes:
- online cheating, and we are already seeing plenty of this on full real servers, like people with unlimited ammo, hacked and enhanced flight models, and no cockpit settings.
- the online servers have been much less busy since the hack started, the online community is fragmenting, ths will worsen in the next 12 months while we wait for BoB
- the hacks are not aimed at improving or fixing the game
- the hack will reduce 1946 sales
- the online community has been a strong and vocal proponent of il2 and supporter of oleg since the beginning, and the main reason for this has been the realism of the aircraft behavior and its good flight models. as you could see from the recent poll at ubizoo most of the online il2 users are more mature and older people, not 12 year old gamers that get a game bought for them by their parents. the reason for this older age group is because of the quality of the il2 game to simulate real ww2 flying better than any other game. undermining this by now tolerating any 12 year old hackers to create their personal flight models for each aircraft and then go and have "fun" online by creating havoc will seriously undermine il2's previous good reputation. magazines like computer pilot will publish this type of information, and it will undermine il2/1946 sales further.
- new people that are interested in buying il2 and 1946 often go and check the official game forums to see if there are problems/bugs with the game. once they see the game has been hacked and that this is openly tolerated they will be much less likely to buy the game.

why bother flying online if it is full of cheaters ?

why bother buying 1946 if flying online isnt going to be honest and legitimate ?


if that is however your and olegs official response to the hacking of 4.08, then you can tolerate on your forum whatever you want and choose, but i think you will create a frankenstein monster instead which will be hard to put back into the grave later.

why not just release the source code then ? at least that would open up everything for editing and some ligitimate coders/programmers will contribute to improve the game further, rather than have cheaters online kill the game for the rest of us. it will then evolve like falcon4 or the rowan BoB did.

This is the one thing that I really dislike about discussions of this subject...not only do people who oppose third party/community modding want an opportunity to express their views and opinions...but they want to censor everyone that expresses a contrary opinion!
Not only is their discussion filled with offensive and emotive phrases But they would like to stifle any opportunity for rational adult discussion by banning any talk of the mods!

I am quite happy to read posts and opinions from people who i don't necessarily agree with...surely thats the whole point of a forum but talk of censorship because you don't agree with someone elses opinion is the start of a very slippery slope!

To answer this I simply quote Oleg here on this board.

Source= http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...9844#post29844

The hacking of the code is by definition a threat to online security. It opened everything - and nowadays a laggy connection might result in someone being accused of cheating. Not the cheating per se is the problem - it's the suspicions that the hack roused because players can no longer be certain that everyone has the same settings.

You either missed the post I quoted above or you're making the very assumptions you accuse others to make. You interpret the lack of a grand statement as a quiet endorsement of someone hacking the code? Well ... let me make another assumption about your assumption: You say that, because it fits your agenda. So - did I hit the bullseye?

According to what I know about Maddox Games they are up to their noses in work for SOW, Oleg included, so they don't have time to populate some online message boards and cater to the information detox of some flight sim fans. The fact is for them Il-2 is history already and SoW is the future. You have three guesses which one has more priority. :rolleyes:

Each their own believes .. Now think about this when connecting to HL i see 85 % of peoples connected to open cockpits + icons on etc.. servers... i found this personally insulting and outrageous.. but some peoples like to use this software to fly open pits since they use and did built their own at home, this make sens but.. just looking around with nothing to block your views or able to see icons with tags on it to me it's worse than the mods by far.

I'm for the closed pit no icons and full FUUULL engine management.. is it a sim or not ? ;)
Now
Lucky we are to have a Host settings controls... isn't it? we just need some kind of controls for this problemOnline I guaranty one big overnight success for this product and a longer life for IL2 if this is made. The best of both world.. This will in one case satisfy th purist files guys and the others.. This will make members coexist in peace and a lots of fun for all, and maybe some mod will be able to bring IL2 to a higher Simulator status.

i installed satellite radio in may car. that will anger the anti modders of the others that own a car like mine.

No problem, just be aware that some modders might just believe your car looks better with a different color/rims/exaust pipes/windows/bumpers/brakes/interior and take it without your permission and change it via their likings.You won`t have a voice here. I`m sure you will be satisfied.

Well all depend you can't touch the engine even a special chip... nothing.. there is the guaranty void if you do they boot you out.... ... remind me a bit the Host settings lock.. isn't it ;) or even the police for this FM mod for cars on the road.. isn't it?

Would u grow up allredy......worrying about faul language when people talk about illigal stuff and theft.

Get your prioritys straigh would u...please.


Thx.

On second thought, never mind.


Whats the point.


Over and out.

Nobody said it is better/closer to reality.Vanilla is however the only version accepted by Oleg Maddox, the creator of IL2 Sturmovik game and supervisor of every patch/addon made for this game.All addons/modifications done against him are an offence to his personal laws as you modify his property.In some countries like the USA this is quite the question of being/not being an asshole but in othesrs it is theft.You also by creating/supporting hacks deny vanilla IL2 users ability to enjoy the game.You offend also their laws.

You can keep repeating the same stuff until you believe that hacks are any good or you are already there.Doesn`t change facts one bit.

This thread has 39 pages but only valid argument brought by modders was ONE and by ONE user namely jasonbirder.All vanilla users aruments stand strong.


Oh yeah thanks you`re making a good example of what role vanilla users on these boards have.Clear misinformation, inform according to facts.

So I reply

the online host CRT=2 setting does not work.It was tested.

Myth gone out the window.

You guys can't stay courtois... I'm trying to see all values here and understand all sides.

Purist is not equal to better or closer to reality or worse just the original files..
what don't you understand here.. this is pure logic..
Puriste = Untouch Files Original...

I disagree ... actually.. the hackers are the ones who make the mods... the modders are the ones who use them.... and really.... do you think their parents really care? I mean come on... and what makes you think these guys are kids? Most of them probably have kids...

Y'see this is the kind of talk that does absolutely nothing to the conversation.. this is the kind of stuff that comes from both sides that is just absolutely meaningless...
I do agree with you that this is a slap in Oleg's face... which is one of the reasons why I have still held off on any of this until I hear something from Oleg or 1C on the subject.. even if that something is just 4.09. Since I am pretty satisfied with the sim as it is.... I will wait... after 4.09? Who knows... if 1C is no longer going to support the sim...

I know enough mature, serious people some who are already using these mods so that if I wanted to fly in a competitive non geek infested venue.. I know where to go... and as I said... just to be totally honest.... some of the things I have seen from visiting their site looks good.. there is no denying that.... Although I have my opinions on the initial deed, how it was done and what could ensue as a result of that.. I refuse to just lambaste all these guys and lump them all together into one big ugly bunch... because their community like any other is not a monolith... and we can debate the morality etc etc till the cows come home and start playong trombones... but it wont change the facts, turn ack the clock or stem the tide... but we can try to set a tone.. instead of all this childishness.

what argument" " oleg is god, don't change his Il-2 bible" ? :) Folks even oleg admits he has bigger and better things to do then appease you on-line whiners. Please let him do them will you? He also admits that il-2 was limited in what he could do with it. That is why SOW came about. This is funny to me because apparently a lot of things he said weren't possible in Il-2 are apparently quite possible now.

sounds like a plan to me.... :)

One thing I don't agree with is this constant "slap in the face" nonsense. If I were a game developer and developed a game that had a very long run without being changed whatsoever and then decided not to support it anymore IMO it would hardly be a slap in the face to me if the community members that owned that game and only wanted it to continue and get even better out of a true love for the game choose to further support and improve it all on their own. Rather, I would be very proud I developed a game people loved enough to keep supporting and improving on after newer and better ones were on the horizon.

Oh my... it just keeps getting better LOL... :D

with these kind of comments it does. Apparently your new,no comment comment clause is null and void now huh? :)

Rammeses, My people cry out they are in bondage. let my people go!


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...andments22.jpg ;)

You seem to be very bored stalkervision... so bored that you dont even make sense when you post something... But that`s ok man.. it will pass ;)

That's Ramses btw.

you have a point. Now read mine. I kind of expected this to happen but only after the release of much expected 4.09 patch. By that time I figure Oleg will have shifted into high gear with SOW (or so I hope) so therefore, I understand the mod/hack side of things, but I also understand the opposition against it.

Then you and I are in the same boat here huh crazy..? :)

Actually my refrences make perfect sense buddy. I am using the Jews in bondage in the ten commandments as an anology to the bondage the modders feel in il-2 is all. Yes I know that is a bit hard for you to understand isn't it. Put on your Mr. Beanie thinking cap and it will come to you.. :)