During discussions about this update, Oleg expressed his disdain of some members expressed attitudes. Oleg made it clear he didn't appreciate the verbal jabs and hinted about ceasing to post.

Members of this forums want the updates and they want the discussions with Oleg or Luthier. Stringent moderation will be maintained, especially on the first day when there is viable discussion. After a couple days there is no longer anything, but banter between members so moderation will not be as strict.

Moderators receive immediate emails when you click on the report this post icon in the upper right corner. Moderators don't hang out on the forums all the time, but with instant email notifications we can take care of issues very quickly.

+1

the easy solution is this: if someone posts their thoughts, don't argue with their view. simple.

As far as i could see Oleg was talking about people moaning about him not posting the video...not people expressing views on content, good or bad.
In fact ive never seen him angry at members or saying people cant express their viewpoint.
To be honest Nearmiss ive thought your moderation of late has been spot on. :)

I don't think Oleg needs feedback from 15 years old crybabies. :rolleyes:

But he's right. "Yah, great work!" Ok, how does Oleg and Luthier use that to make the game better? People who post that the font colour is wrong, the Pitot tube is wrong, or that the roads are not to scale are helpful (although not always diplomatic). As it stands now, Oleg has to sift through 30 pages of people giving him High-Fives, and probably gets tired of that and misses out on some actual constructive criticism or feedback.

You love the work, great! Add it to the end of a post that helps the game development process, points out something that needs to be done. Don't have a post that can be used to help the development of the game? This isn't the thread for it!

+1 to Speculum. Posts that say 'great' are fine, but if everyone posted that it'd be a bit...dull. Suffice to say, as I have said a number of times, the sim would be worse off because many errors wouldn't have been changed that the community noticed.
Just my 2P.

It's not what you say, it's about how you say it. Some people are plain rude with their "feedback" and is always the same guys.
In all this "Updates" threads you see respectful observations to one aspect or another. For example observation about markings and some aircraft parts. Very respectfuly and with back up info. Soon you see the issues corected or adjusted.
This is what I consider "feedback", not the "this is crap", "that is crap", "I made it better in XX mod" years ago, and so on.
This is not feedback. It's noise. Rude noise. Nobody needs this kind of "feedback".
Many of you confuse the reason for this updates. They are not posted for you to criticize. Specially since you are always told "it's W.I.P." This updates are posted to keep us in the loop with the progress.
Do you think someone wants to get crap from 10 year olds every week for something he is giving for free?
Everything is WIP until you buy the game! Give them a break, they don't owe you nothing.

I agree there though; it doesn't take much to be a bit more eloquent.

I don't think I'm rude, am I?

best way to find out: Make a poll. :mrgreen:

I'm one of the guys who likes so much Oleg's work that I admits that I rarely criticized his
work.
But I like to see construtive critics from people here and I always will support freedom of speech,even if I don't agree with the poster view.

Weathered Markings
 

Now that really is getting a bit off topic!:grin:

Mr Maddox also commented on the weathering of squadron codes etc. being a 'bug' that they may or may not resolve.

It can be seen on one of the G50 shots there there is something happening to the lettering where the paint is worn, but it doesn't look quite right. Not 'worn off' enough perhaps.

This isn't something that would bother me at all in the initial release, compared to IL2 they look great, but looking at the screenshot and filmmaker potential of the sim, what do others think?

Will we have the option to get the spit/109/hurricane/etc repainted/patched-up? It'd be cool to see the work of the airmen like patches over cannon-shell hits etc ;) I doubt this will happen, but in the future.... :-P

i do love multi-quote.

presumption to speak for all. well done man, hubris +50 for you.

i'm guessing, but can only say personally, that i know these are WIP shots... i will leave off the complaining for when i get the game in my hands and the machine capable of playing it at full settings before assuming that something is wrong. and then we will see many patches after release in the hopefully long long life of the game, correcting any number of miniscule errors.
nah, even building it as an addable option would be illegal. however it could be that user made skins can feature it, and that's something that is end user modifiable by it's very nature, rather than built into the engine as a patch would be.
not as far as i recall, other than landscape. i'd expect it to add bells and whistles and performance. have a look at crysis in dx9 and 10 for examples of stuff, eg "god rays"
he feels, not everyone else is of the same opinion. can he post examples of a 2010 flight sim to back up his view?
on the basis of evidence and observation... no.
one of the things seen in dx11 tech demonstrations is the tessilation (sp?), so instead of having a flat 2d texture of paving stones, you actually get the 3d variations between slabs.
zing!
equally, i don't think "painted by a child" is in anyway helpful, in fact i'd take personal offence at that if i had been working on a game for years and wsa told this by, frankly, a rank amateur who most likely has absolutely zero relevant experience.

such posts as you highlight are people expressing a positive and grateful outlook at being shown dev shots. do you think each of these doesn't notice the jaggies etc? no, they are evident to all, but those people recognise a WIP shot when they see it, and have the necessary neurones to remember the previous series of shots and see the progression.

and an equally good solution is "think, write, read, think, post".

if you're posting in a belligerent, ill-mannered way don't think you are somehow protected from the approbation of others who are honestly appalled at what they are reading.
precisely. should be posted in font size 7 flashing letters before each update.
forums always need polls. lots and lots of polls.

MD, show me where I have posted something appalling.
Did you actually read my original post before saying that I wrote something appalling? My first post was a simple question that I had posed to Oleg. There was nothing rude about it.

It is so worrying here how any critisim is recieved, some of you lot are boardering on fanatical, it really is a joke. No offence of course.

Also some user have been baned for saying something like this :rolleyes:
Please calm down , we just want to see something new of SOW:BOB, all of us ( maybe not) know that now you ( Oleg) are beeing pushed and you are the first to release the game, but you want it with quality, and not full of bugs.
Regards

I look forward to not seeing you in any servers.

Once again:

Thank you very much Oleg and team. I and many with me see theese updates for what they are and appreciate your tolerance and hope u, despite everything will continue showing the progress on SoW.

Please dont let the majority suffer because of the acts of a few. (why does that sound femilliar?)


P.S. The last shot of the Wellingtons is especially nice, the detail is amazing, thx :)

Funny. Now telling Oleg that we like the progress and appreciate him posting (especially this Friday given the circumstances he explained) is not "constructive" enough? Gimme a break...

Some people way overestimate their potential influence on the development (and no I'm not referring to the people who are really providing additional knowledge, mostly technical details like pitot tube size, lettering and emblem usage or flight jacket details).

I guess if the underlying paint layer has eroded completely, the paint of the letters should also be gone, not just half transparent.

What's been mostly ignored is that this is the first in-engine shot which seems to show environment mapping on the bare metal parts. That should come in handy if we'll ever see some US planes later during the war... should look nice on a Fiat as well though :)

Good job your not a moderator on here, lets put things in perspective, saying that the Terrain does not look good, is not the same as saying that you are the b*stard son of satan is it? Unfortunately people on here take it as a personal slant, where as if they were reasonable human beings they would simply say, "hey tree, i happen to like the terrain" rather than get all playground or school teacher on my ass. :grin::grin:

I would honestly like to see you banned by IP. Would the Administrators apply the order? Anybody else upset by his antagonising and obtuse posts each week?

Hello gents!

Oleg, I think that you have to use computer to analize perhaps 100 color photos of Elglish landscape, in order to find by computer calculations the proper color of the grass and the forests of England. Just my 2 pences.

~Regards!

yes...when ever Tree says something that isnt "nice" a kitten dies...jeez...there is a ignore button...use it if Tree makes you cry.

Im so sorry I have upset you so much my friend. try ringing the samaritans, they are pretty good at helping people such as yourself.

Where? Or am I blind??

And here we go again. And I don't mean you, furbs.

Any more comments on the question regarding squadron codes?
This appeared to me as being something Mr Maddox might actually appreciate some comment on.

Are you talking from personal experience? You may need to ring them again when SoW is on sale to deal with your disappointment.

Moaning at someone who, in turn, moans about the game is just as bad. Be the better person and take a step above. If they really are so low, then don't stoop to their level ;)

What I find interesting is Oleg never finishes a sentence with a ? mark.

That indicates to me he isn't asking, is he?

He provides updates and a little discussion. I don't think he is asking for anyone's input. The BOB SOW is on the downwind leg. Everything now is about refinements and de-bugging.

Oleg is just being a nice guy posting updates, because he enjoys his work and likes to share.

I'm "taking the bait"!!
I feel that I must say something on the "niggle" that appears to be dominating the content of this thread at the moment!
You know, it's really the MANNER in which things are said that can "hurt", irritate, upset etc others.
I am, I suspect, relatively old when compared to most of the members of this forum, and I must point out (at great risk of being told to "get lost") that criticism can be done and can be quite "palatable"IF it is done in a polite and constructive manner.
With respect to those who are drawaing "flak" for critical comments made, I respectfully suggest that you consider the MANNER in which you say things.
I'm aware that the world of today is VERY different from the world that I was brought up in - people are generally more selfish, less caring, less sensitive etc - I think that it's happening worldwide (eg TV reality shows thrive because they show someone being made a fool of, or being rejected by fellow participants etc) - it's a pity, but I think that we all being exposed to this side of things, and there's nothing we can do about it - however, let's try and leave it off this forum.
Oleg and his team are clearly producing a ground-breaking flight sim that is going to be way ahead of "the opposition" - apart from being grateful, encourage him and his team with constructive and polite criticism.
There ... I've got that "off my chest"!!

But he hasn't turned advice and information away, has he? The term 'discussion' exactly sums up these very topics. Discussion about the update which includes personal feelings. That's just my view on it though. No doubt others will differ in their opinions...

go on User CP -> Setings and Options -> Edit Ignore List
Then type in the name you wish to ignore in future.

*Nudge, Nudge.. wink, wink...* ;)

Firstly when it come to filters mine are purley artistic... I have no idea how to do proper atmosphere effects...

I did these for myself really but they are relevant.

All I've done to them is increase the colour saturation and messed about with contrast. I added a 1 pixel blur to everything as it eases som of the AA-ing.

I dont claim that I know what the finished game(?) will look like but I was just looking at the colours out of interest.

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/SoW/Sow3.jpg
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/SoW/Sow4.jpg
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/SoW/Sow5.jpg

Looking at them I might have added film grain as well.

Nice work. I like the colours in the last shot for the grass. Obviously monitors will show different colours, but from my PoV it looks like a good representation of summer-grass. Then again, so did the original shot, but here the grass blends better into a 2D texture than the original shot.
It shows what can be done, screenshot wise, from SoW and considering this is a very early SoW-version then people who like taking screenshots will hit gold when SoW is released.
I'm confident the terrain will reach the photo-realistic quality Oleg talked of. If not on x-day, then in a patch. (or even later in a 3rd party app)

wow winny

tbh that particular comment wasn't specifically aimed at you. if someone posts something appallingly childish etc etc
there's a ton of difference between constructive criticism and whiny griping about childlike landscapes.

Sorry, recently I have built up quite a guilty conscience on here. My apologies for accusing you.

I give up.
See you next week.
Ho Hum.

No you aint mate , its just the usual suspects grinding you down , your friends are still here and the questions you ask aint by any means whining or out of order , your input like Zorins , dose make a difference.

Cheers, I appreciate it ;)

Here we go again...of course it makes an impact.

You know, i take all this time to write long posts in an effort to cover all angles and be polite but i suspect nobody reads them :-P

So, i'll say it short this time.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

"Oleg, i think that the squadron codes are wrong. I have this and that historical references and these pictures. Do you think they could be changed before release or looked at in a post-release patch? Also, nice to see your efforts on the terrain, the draw distance is very good and the amount of objects higher than most other flight sims, but the color palette needs some work. If you are interested, i can provide you with some references"--> GOOD. It provides useful feedback in a respectable manner and the user is making an effort to make himself useful instead of only pointing fingers.

"Oh no! The terrain colours are totally wrong and the texture resolution is appalling. To be honest, i can't see how this is up to par for a 2010 sim, when we have better looking terrain in IL2 already"--> BAD. It simply points out the flaws without providing any amount of information as to what's wrong in the poster's opinion. It also degrades the work of professionals and when that happens by amateurs, it saps any kind of credibility the poster might have had with a better choice of words.

It's perfectly fine to say things are in need of improvement. It's not fine at all to say "things are crap, please fix it" while doing nothing at all to specify what needs fixing or how.

On the terrain subject, have any of you seen the Outerra graphics engine? This is incredible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGMs7...ayer_embedded#!

it lacks a lot of SoW detail, but in many other respects it's just mind-blowing. I can se SoW looking like this in the not-too-distant future.

[QUOTE=Tone71;186463]All things considered, I don't think it looks too bad:

http://www.islandbreaks.co.uk/xsdbim...nesaerial2.jpg

@ Tree_UK
I think that the landscape looks great. I say this because in this reference pic from TONE71 you can clearly see that in the distance is a distinct haze. Which is very common, and looking at Olegs' Screenshot you can see the haze is present all the way to the shoreline.
In the above reference pic, the haze has burned off in the near distance. I fly a lot and I can vouch for the presence of this haze effect, which dampens and flattens the colour of the ground and skies... The ground is really very well rendered.

Also the above reference shot is also over saturated, it has way too much blue/cyan. You wanted others input about this concern of yours, so this
is mine.

I also want to tell you that its not your opinion that rubs people up the wrong way, its your delivery. Telling Oleg his landscapes look like a child painted them
or that Canon should or could fix up what (in your opinion) Oleg couldn't achieve cannot be viewed as criticism. Constructive or otherwise.
They are straight up insults...
If it was your intention to insult Oleg and his years of work, then congrats, you've achieved your goal. BUT if it wasn't your intent, then try and consider another approach. This is my opinion. Use it, Don't use it, you choose.

The colours are just a bit bright for summer at the moment. But of course this will be subject to change right up until x-day. Be sure.

Well found! A couple more.

http://www.isleofwightholidays4all.c...wles-farm1.gif

http://www.isleofwightholidays4all.c...ines-Point.jpg

We should get this area on the map, I think (correct me otherwise). I want to fly a Spitfire under that arch!!!!
And it would be a perfect place for an online quick dogfight map. Old Harry, Swanage:

http://02c1289.netsolhost.com/AZ0104.jpg

http://www.edenpics.com/pictures/005...di-Swanage.jpg

http://www.swanagecottageholidays.co...large/out5.jpg

http://www.mcqueens.net/wp-content/u...7/img_0500.jpg

[EDIT] - Ohh...just found that Durdle Door is in that area too..(I thought it was further away at first);
an amazing looking place. I think you might even get a Blenheim through there:-)
.... IF it's modelled of course!!!


http://westfossil.co.uk/photos/door1.jpg

http://www.jonathangooding.co.uk/dor...urdle_door.jpg

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/20...or-490x224.jpg

For scale:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...08_468x311.jpg

Right, onto the real reason I wanted to post. This posting thing is pretty new to me so please excuse any babbling...

I have one development question / wish / request that has always been on my mind, and I have never come across anyone else asking about it... So here it is

Full cockpit vs Wonderview:- In IL-2 there is either Full cockpit or gunsight and sky. Nothing inbetween. It would be so good if there was a third option.

To Oleg- Will/can there be a player defined option to set the in-cockpit view at 65% (or so) opacity, to make it semi-transparent?
So pilots can still have more "sky" but also can have the feeling that they are still flying in a beautifully rendered fighter plane?

The cockpit opacity settings would be amazing to have... No longer will we have to choose between dynamic gameplay (Wonderview) and immersion (In cockpit)... We could have both.

Not too sure what the technical implications of this request is but I had to ask anyway.

Please give me feedback guys, I am interested to know your opinions on this request...

And Oleg, Please answer, I am burning to know...
I'll be satisfied with either a
1. Yes
2. No
or
3. Could happen in a future release.

(RESPONSE TO OLEG'S EARLIER POST) I also want to say that the view options in IL-2 are the best of any sim ever... I have played pretty much every single flight sim that has been made and none compares with IL-2's viewing systems... Coupled with the fact that outside camera views can be used (turned) with the track IR is immensely useful. Please dont change them, but add to them with your new secret viewing options:)

I also love the little details, like the pilots and gunners having 'weight' to them. I can see myself flying with the chase camera and throwing the bomber around the skies and seeing how the gunners react to inertia - Seeing if I can shunt the plane hard enough so they will fall out... :)

I am not sure how many more people will view my post... I think I may have missed the boat a bit cause most of the vast majority of the community have already been and gone, So I will repost this next week and hopefully get loads of responses, I am super interested to know what other may think of this idea.

By what this looks like I don't think we've had a wide view of the finale terrain yet.

I think the idea with the semi transparent cockpit has been discussed in the past, cant remember of Oleg gave any awnsers about it though.

Thanks Baron, If you remember anything else about it, please tell me... Also what is your opinion on it...?

Upset me? You haven't, I'm merely pointing out the irony of you telling me to read between the lines when you clearly failed to read a straight up post from Oleg.

Stating this:


After Oleg stated this:

is the point, you clearly failed to read anything he posted.

Assume much? Or are you that involved in SoW development that you know every contributer? No I doubt it else you wouldn't be continually on here asking questions and whining. I'll tell you what I've done to help Oleg, I've taken the time to read his posts and refrained from making asinine posts regarding the state of things that he has already made clear.

If I had any level of expertise that would help Oleg I'd offer it, trust me, but as it happens it's all well out of my experience which is why I keep my mouth shut 99% of the time instead of spouting what amounts to pointless opinions. Not that I'm immune from doing so occasionally :)

Nothing, where did I say it was?

If you want my opinion (and that's all it is, I claim no expertise in anything I say) then I'm tempted to agree on the clouds, but I don't think we've seen enough of them yet to form an informed view of them, same with the landscape, push comes to shove and I have to agree with Tree, it's somewhat lacking in my eyes, however I am very aware that we have no real frame of reference as to what we are actually seeing, is it low settings, high? some placeholders still in place, missing features and post processing or just Oleg showing off technical features that we need to look deeper into to see without it looking anything like what SoW will actually look like? We just don't know and given Oleg's track record of holding back (again shown with the bonus video this week showing crew animations which we only found out about very recently but was obviously being tested quite some time ago) and the fact that until it goes gold (and again, even after given Oleg's track record) it's still work in progress and subject to change.

Oleg has my trust to bring us a stunning sim and after playing IL2 for so long I just can't see him letting us down.

Just an opinion, but the semi-transparent cockpit would be good to play with. I wonder if that would tax the system, though, because it would have to render the sky/planes AND and cockpit in the same area. I have no idea if that;s the case, but it wouldn't surprise me.

BTW, the screen shots where people have played with the color saturation and such....spectacular even if a little dark. No one remembers it but I made a similar point in a post several weeks ago. I feel better about the theory I had back then after seeing these "doctored" screen shots.

Splitter

Fair post Dano, the reason why i have been less subtle (if thats possible) with my comments on the terrain is that Oleg as stated that the game is effectively finished, just ironing out the bugs, now Oleg did promise Terrain better than WOP, and like I have already pointed out that it may well be the case that we will get wonderful terrain, but, and i stress but, the terrain we have seen recently from altitude is IMHO very poor.

good update oleg! i like the shots you posted, nice of you to do that because i know you were still very busy, in the middle of moving :grin:

Nothing wrong with the idea, options is good, all depending on the amount of work needed to implement it. Could be a good tool in the transison from WW to cockpit only flying. How much work it is, i have no idea.

That's the trouble though isn't it, technically it is better than WoP, it has a far greater draw distance, more realistic palette etc etc, it just doesn't currently 'look' as nice, so even the term 'better than' is entirely subjective to what exactly you are comparing it to.

The other point to consider is that we have only currently seen static screens of the landscape and sometimes they do not do any justice whatsoever at all to a game in motion.

"This message is hidden because Tree_UK is on your ignore list."

Ah, really nice feature that one! I can recommend it.

You wont see this one then , CHEESE BREATH :grin:

Oh well, SimHQ is also being polluted now...

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3105169

Tree
SimHQ Member
"Jeez im so glad you guys agree about the terrain, i was beginning to feel very isolated on the banana forum for daring to question it. There are so many bum lickers over there its untrue."

Philip_ed
SimHQ Member
"You're not isolated Tree. It's just that, at the Banana forum, the moment you post a slight critique they start to ram their thoughts down your throat and call you names etc. Those guys need to get a life."

Is Oleg and Team encouraged by such comments? I think all artists are encouraged by such comments. No need to reply to them either. Just appreciate them like a warm glow of sunlight in the morning. Agreed that constructive criticism can be valuable to an artist. But there's a big difference between constructive criticism (which is usually backed up by relevant data) and ill-intended bickering usually by the same actors. So I make no apology for my attempts to compliment and encourage these artists. I personally lack the knowledge and expertise to offer the team any relevant data. But, like many in the silent majority, I can offer them a little encouragement from time to time. I'll keep doing this until Oleg tells me to shut up.

The real question is, which comes first Duke Nukem Forever or Storm of War, its a race to the finish line by two games long due :)
Love these updates, just ignore the whine and continue next Friday.

yes he should be, and he has already been temp banned for it in the past

what some people dont seem to recognize with him is that he is deliberately offensive to oleg personally and on purpose constantly posts negative and destructive remarks about the BoB project and previews we get here, it has nothing to do with him giving some honest and balanced feedback on the updates

his behavior is like that of the slighted women, or the low EQ child who's toy has been taken away, and he keeps whining on and on and on long after the event has passed. for tree-uk that trigger experience was the postponement of il2/BoB mark-1 about 4 yrs ago which he must have been looking forward to a lot, and from then on his sole purpose to come onto these forums is to post his negative crap (and he does it on all the il2 forums). if you look back on all his post in this forum 90% of them are his deliberately offensive negative remarks

and anytime he gets cornered about his misrepresentation of facts or his deliberate exaggerated negative spin on things, he'll try and backtrack about being misunderstood and will slither and slide away, only to reappear doing the exact same thing in the next posts, he's been doing it for years, and temp banning him here has had no change in his behavior either. his previous main constant whining was about the release date, and since it is obvious in the last couple of months that release is imminent and just around the corner (barring some major bug that delays intended release date), so Tree-uk now has switched to deliberately offensive remarks about the content (yet he knows little of game design or grafix/video, and completely ignores all the positive aspects of what we see, and neither is he able or willing to see minor WIP factors for what they are)

tree-uk is also now locked into his behavior because it gets him attention (and he has very little knowledgeable or interesting to contribute on ww2 aviation so he cant "participate" on that level), and because he gets stroked along by cluster of hanger's on who are to dimwitted to see the bigger pattern of what he is doing here

so when you see oleg's outburst of frustration at all the unnecessary and ungrateful negative crap being constantly posted by people like tree, most of us are concerned, but not tree, for him its EXACTLY what he wants to achieve and he will keep doing it, its his sole purpose for being here. so dont expect tree to change, he wont, and because of that he really shouldnt be here at all

exactly, the main point with the recent high altitude screenshots is that what we see of the terrain below shows good detail in the ground contours, toning the color palate (or density of foliage/scrubs/trees/hedges) is a very minor and easy component (and is not the purpose of showing those shots imho)

Dude, you seriously need to come out of your shell and tell us what you really think :-P. Holding back your true feelings will lead to indigestion and ulcers. So let me ask this in as direct a manner as possible:

Tell us how you feel about TreeUk.

Get it off your chest, you will fell better.

Now where did I put my popcorn.....

Splitter

You're wrong.
He's speculative on the release date - he's free to do so.
He doesn't like the terrain. He's free to like whatever, unfortunately he picked a bad formulation.

The whiners here are actually not negative or destructive - they are just disappointed.
Not of Olegs work - but they had unrealistic dreams(i'm exaggerating here) of a Sim, where you can fly over meadows and see the grasshoppers jump away if you only do it low enough.
Now their dream is manifesting and they realize it's not going be like they imagined, hence the don't like this, don't like that.

I really didn't want to get "sucked into" this whole topic...

But its obvious that most of the people here have absolutely NO IDEA about the proper way to communicate their criticism of an ongoing creative project.

I have been a working musician and an artist...and I have collaborated with many brilliant artists...and I can tell you, "for a fact", that insulting, marginalizing, or speaking presumptively (the presumption being that Oleg finds all this bickering educational) with the artist, IS NOT, the way to communicate your thoughts.

I'm gonna "tap out" now (lol).... ;)


P.S. Old_Canuck...I'm not really commenting on your statement as much as I'm communicating my thoughts after reading your thoughts. I hope that is ok.

I was trying very hard to not get sucked into this but I can't resist anymore.
What a bunch of women.
Is there anyone at all who would like to discuss the sim?
Some of us find logical discourse useful.
Others think 'I'm a celebrity, get me out of here' is highly educational.
Which camp are you in?

Now then splitter, we've had some good chats and you're obviously an intelligent chap, so don't jump on the bandwagon, please.

What do you think about the weathering of squadron codes?

Thanks.

Welcome to the forum first of all.You'll find that things get heated some times, but that's because we're all a bunch of over-enthusiastic kids at heart, with a lot of passion for this hobby.

Don't get discouraged if someone shouts you down and don't get dragged down to petty arguments, just keep providing your opinion and feedback in the manner you just did and all is going to be ok. I think you'll do just fine. ;)

As for your request, i would never use something like that but i can recognize that other people would find it useful. As long as time constraints and coding limitations permit, i wouldn't mind one bit if it was included as a feature of this upcoming flight simulator. Like i always say what's bad is forcing a certain set of preferences on everyone because not everyone has the same taste, but extra options are never a bad thing. In that sense, even though i would never use it i can still see the usefulness of it for other people.

Also as Baron said, it would a serve as a useful transition point from no-cockpit view to full cockpit view and anything that helps people move from lower to higher realism settings is useful in my opinion. Just because someone is flying on lower difficulty settings doesn't mean he should be shunned and made fun of. From where i'm standing, the best thing to do would be to guide that person through increasing difficulty settings and showcase the amount of satisfaction that comes with increased challenges, but i know that some steps of this progression tend to have a steep learning curve. Such a feature would be very useful in bridging part of that gap. The only concern, again as Baron has already stated, is how much effect it would have on frame rates because it increases the amount of things to be rendered.

On another note...

I think this is a pretty accurate post. Tree doesn't have to change his opinions, he's entitled to them. What annoys people is usually the way they are presented. I too am not that happy about the terrain but i would never say it's painted by a child because even though it's not perfect i can still see a lot of things i like, i know next to nothing about whether it's final or not, i don't know the settings used to take the screenshots and i don't know if it's placeholder or in a testing stage.

For me, the most important thing to be gleaned from the Friday updates is not the quality displayed because that changes constantly due to testing. In fact, we've seen a lot of older update shots where things look better than newer ones and vice versa. What happens is that most people take the most recent set of screenshots as a universal quality benchmark that supersedes and "overwrites" all previous updates, while that is most probably not the case. Instead of doing that, people should take the time to look back to previous updates and accumulate all the positive points of what's there if they want to have a more thorough look at what's possible with the new engine. Maybe our PCs can't run it at full tilt just yet and that's why certain features move up and down on the quality scale? With regards to PC resources, it's one thing to show a fully detailed aircraft in the object viewer or a static shot with nothing happening (not even the propeller turning) like we've seen in the past, but a totally different one to show a shot of a full-blown combat sequence where some things will have to be set to lower detail in order to maintain playable frame rates.

So, how can we dissect these updates properly? I'd say it's the pace of progress made that matters and trust me, from my point of view progress is happening rapidly. We just have to be able to accumulate all the positive points from the previous updates as well, instead of assuming that what we see is final each week. Some shots might be taken with aircraft detail at 60% and terrain detail at 80%, others could be taken with aircraft detail at 100% and terrain detail at 40%, because it's too heavy to run on the PC used to take the screenshots. Of course you don't need highly playable FPS just to snap a few stills, but thing about something else...these guys are on a tight schedule and every minute counts. If showing things at full detail on the medium range PC used for optimizing the sim to run on lower spec systems means a 10 minute loading time, then the developers will just drop the graphics sliders in the options to make it load in 2 minutes and snap the pictures using that setting because they have other more important things to do, like finishing the game for example ;)

[QUOTE=zapatista;186782]yes he should be, and he has already been temp banned for it in the past/QUOTE]

I don't know what the past history is with you two but please stop it.

It's stupid.

Move on.

The pair of you appear like a pair of bitchy schoolgirls and it's extremely tedious for the rest of us, although you both have valid points to make.

That said, I am interested in both your opinions on the appearance of weathered squadron markings within the sim.

Any Thoughts? Or are you too busy scoring points?

+1

I think the way they are displayed on the British aircraft is excellent, but the ones on the Italian aircraft are too transparent (as Oleg alluded to in his initial post here).

Otherwise, they are a major step up from the stock IL2 markings, which don't blend in at all with the airframe.

He does what he said he will do --give out info and as usual there are some whingers and whiners who want more
Oleg must be very busy with moving and continual production of this series yet 'enough' is not taken to be enough
I will happily wait till we are given more when he wishes to and has time to do it-we have waited long enough whats a few more months
patience grasshoppers!!

I haven't Phil and I don't require patronising on it either, though I am sure your comment is in the best intention. I don't think you see that the guy is just entertaining himself, so you answer his silly remarks, and he's laughing at that. I've not answered any of it because it doesn't warrant an answer, I'd just rather see him not post anymore and not have the pleasure of Oleg's salivating updates.

http://www.islandbreaks.co.uk/xsdbim...nesaerial2.jpg

I think people forget that in 1940 everything was in black and white.......:rolleyes:

Ok Dutch, ;)

I've looked at the G50 shots. I can see that in the area where the camouflage paint has been chipped away to show the bare metal, then the squadron codes should have gone completely too. Instead they are just more 'weathered' looking. (edit: in reality I presume that the camo paint and national markings are factory-applied while the squadron codes are put on once the ac is supplied to its unit? If that's the case then maybe the squadron codes could sometimes be re-applied in the field over the well-worn camo? Doesn't take away from the fact that in the game it's still a bug)

To be honest it's not something that jumps out at me unless I'm specifically looking for it. The overall effect seems to be enough to 'fool' the eye, even though, technically, it's wrong.

I think the G50 shots look great - more impressive than some of the earlier Spitfire shots showing weathered markings.

Hopefully they'll fix it, but if not, for me anyway it's not a big deal.

+1

I've never bought the argument, used by some here, that the destructive critique is somehow more useful to Oleg, or that his main reason for posting is so that we can enlighten him with our superior insight and knowledge.

I still don't think we've seen a shot of the finished terrain..not really Compared to that Hurricane low over that section of London with even smoke coming out of a chimney why would everything look like mush from 10,000 feet. It just doesn't make sense to me. Wait until the website comes and if it still looks worse than that lawnmower sounding WOP then you can really complain.

Of course. Even Oleg did a reply on that: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...6&postcount=71

And it is useless for a complex flight sim, unless a frame rate of 3-5 fps is enough for you ;)

SoW bob gonna be a great game! But when's the release date?
In late October, Christmas?


ps: Great job Mr. Oleg : eek:
sorry for my bad English : grin :

Matsher, some years ago, Oleg posted a development picture showing the "new Wonderwoman" view in which the "floating instruments" were semi-opaque. This wasn't a semi-transparent cockpit, but did show "see-through" instruments, so about half of what you're looking for. ( also, they were representations of the actual cockpit guages/dials, rather than the IL2 "cartoon" instruments )

I spent some time looking through old harddrives last night, but unfortunately I can't find it. Still, it was quite some time ago and anything might have changed.

...

March 21st 2008.
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/grab0002.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/grab0004.jpg



http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...39&postcount=6


...

BoB is very close to release. It's up to you tu understand the meaning of "close" now ;)

Did you remember this one? That should be what you mean. Paint away = markings away.

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-conten...at_G-50_08.jpg

Be patient. All will get well.

I don't think we've seen the terrain....

From the check 6 interview.

After a good meal offered by Oleg we get back in the office, and spend some time with the team responsible of the map.

The person working on it is using an old map which he superimposed on his modelling tool and is reproducing all the ancient roads exactly where they should be ! I think that it's really insane to give such a hard work to the team, but in a way, that's why we love Oleg's games !
Oleg gives me informations about the new textures they will use and told me that his photo experience helps him a lot to get the most realistic textures possible !

Now that looks superb, and would be very welcome.
Hopefully they'll be able to iron out the bug in due course.:)

Thankyou Foobar. I completely missed that post of his ;)

Now what happened to that terrain, thats more like the terrain i thought we would be seeing.

its beautiful in that screen :S

So why does it look so bad now, in that shot it looks like England, the colours are right, the hedgerows are right, it just needs some trees etc.

Agreed it does look very nice.

Im sure most of you would agree that when we first saw terrain like that above our expectations were somewhat raised, obviously if that kind of terrain makes the game unplayable then im down with that, but surely a statemnet saying as much would at least put us all in the picture.

Tree, what is it about the words "work in progress" that you just cannot seem to grasp?

You see one shot you like then another that you don't, and you wrongly come to the conclusion that they have thrown the baby out with the bath water and gone with the one you don't care for.

Now you believe that because Oleg has said they are working on bugs, that the sim is totally done and everything is fixed in place. This is in spite of the fact that Oleg has said that they will be tuning the graphics till the time the code goes to the publisher.

You have the most twisted thought process of anyone I've ever read online.

Or, you work for a competitor and are being paid to raise hell in this forum.

Either way, you should seek help.

Wasn't England logged out centuries ago? Aren't you thinking of my country Tree? :)


TOO MANY TREES!!.... right?

guys, i will ask this once more, if you want to insult me in any way please feel free to 'pm' me rather than do it in the forums, I am more than happy to recieve your insults and trade if you want to go down that route. However much you want to get personal with me wont unfortunately change my view or make me like something that you do, I am open to a discussion though which these forums are designed for.

I think the point is, even if the terrain is WIP, then why couldn't they use this terrain as WIP which looks better?
having said that, notice the repetion of the textures here...it looks aesthetically nice, but realistically?

Ok I'm sorry. I just wanted you to see my pretty trees. I don't get off on insulting you. You make me crazy but you're consistent and honest about what you feel.

Absoloutley agree Philip, but it still looks better than in the recent screenshots, the colours are really good.