Yeah, i know what you mean. I like it but i usually do my flying in "batches". Sometimes i fly FSX for a week straight and then i take a lengthy break. I don't own it so i only get to fly it when i'm visiting my buddy, but even if i did i guess it would be the same. I mean, i do the exact same thing with IL2...pick it up and fly it a lot for a month or so, then i take a break for a couple of months.

As for the bolded part, yes, that would be funny :grin:

How about a mysterious sighting of a Rundflugzeug RFZ-2/Vril on a reconnaissance mission or test flight?

A German flying suacer?

oleg, dont forget this: when the pilots of the Luftwaffe gives the order of attack. said in the radio: "Horrido!". Horrido is a Latin word meaning frightful or frightening. Perhaps the Luftwaffe meant for it to mean "Fear me!"

Horrido is the equivalent of Tally Ho. i think

Really? I thought that ,,Horrido!" was told after a shootdown, something like ,,Hooray! Got him!".

ok, yes, "Pauke, Pauke" is when the pilot have a visual contact with enemy. and horrido when the pilot have a victory, instead of said Hei Hitler, they say horrido (is like 'anti nazi' protest and more saying "i do this for my country, not for a crazzy motherf###")
The British don't said "Hooray! Got him!", They said "Tally-Ho",
please correct me.

Tally Ho is a hunting cry. It wouldn't be used to signal a victory, rather it would be called on sighting the enemy.

HORRIDO in italian lenguage ORRENDO (ORRIBILE-MOSTRUOSO-SPAVENTOSO)
hahahah:grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1ccrx6zgPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCn7rm3P3Ms

it's been mentioned in some form or another in here before:

prototype testing:

for instance 19 squadron RAF was the first squadron to get cannon armed Spitfires. They were so disliked(due to the cannons jamming all the time) that eventually they requested and got their machine gun armed Spits back.

I'm wondering if this could be shown/reflected in a campaign?

second example; according to Alfred Price's The Hardest Day there was at least one Hurricane which had a 20mm slung under the wing. Could something like this be developed as a 'special mission'?

And secondly the end of the battle saw the beginning of the Blitz. maybe a little night time hunting with a Beaufighter, or the early attempts with Spits and Hurries?

and finally, athought about an older sim which also had a lot of mods made. European Airwar.

One of the commands you could add in there was extra squads =* with the * being a number up to 5. I'm wondering if something like this will be possible in SOW as compared to Il2 this might actually show reinforcements heading in to attack the enemy....

From St Horridus, patron saint of hunters. ;)

About the Beaufighter: I think Oleg said that it wouldn't be flyable:(, but I'm not entirely sure.

oh yeah

For what I read on luftarchiv,Horrido is from a saint,patron of aviators.

VRIL,heh,nice.
Haunebu would be better.Fitted with a Flak 88 as it was originally intended.

In fact the real origin of horrido seem to originate in the very old German hunting tradition. Back then the hunters would say "hoch Rüde hoch" which means "get up my dog, get up".
Till today horrido is commonly used as a greeting between hunters in Germany.

Concerning military e.g. Luftwaffe, but also in ancient times horrido is and was used as battle cry.

here is the link to the german wiki page with more reference:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horrido

Oh, and I forgot, tally-ho seems to have almost the same kind of origin:
ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally-ho

cheers,
Schallmoser

For me, the best way to make immersive missions is to make an immersive environment around those missions. I.e. create a detailed squadron environment with lots of things to do and see between missions:

BRIEFINGS:

- Detailed mission briefings conducted by an officer in a barrack surrounded by your squad mates. The briefing settings could change from time to time, sometimes they would be in the barrack, sometimes outside in the sun. And the setting would change graphically if your squadron moved to another airfield.

- VERY thorough de-briefings. Most cool thing in the world is going over your mission afterwards, seeing the flight path and having important events marked on the route such as kills, crashes, shot down squadmates and more (as much as possible). Maybe even having the possibility to see the route and events of all members of the squadron - this would immersive the player much more into the squadron and make the other members feel much more alive.

AWARDS

- Awards ceremonies.

- "Decoration certificates" would be available for viewing afterwards that stated the circumstances of the award - "On the 4th of July SqrLdr Ewing singlehandedly engaged a large group of enemy fighters to protect a returning recon plane..." etc.

- AND PLEASE!!! Follow historical award paths. Make it possible for allied pilots to be awarded bars to their DFCs.

- Make the awarding mechanisms much more dynamic - don't just limit it to number of kills (i.e. 5 kills = DFC, 10 kills = DFC+bar, 20 kills = DSO etc...).
It would be immensely cool if other more dynamic factors could be taken into account, like some sort of "bravery tally", where you would be awarded hidden points for certain heroic actions or completing certain missions and when you reached a certain score you would get an award - which one maybe depending on what you have already.
This mechanism could also be tied to the "special" missions showing up from time to time where completing them or doing especially well would make you much more likely to receive a decoration.
Perhaps missions could be rated for difficulty in this system and completing difficult missions or just doing well would earn you more "bravery points".

SQUADRON MANAGEMENT/ENVIRONMENT:

- A cool, chalkboard-type kill board.

- A detailed "diary" of the players career, with summations of all missions and a detailed "kill-book" with plane type, date, place and more.

- Being able to browse through the pilot dossiers and see your squadmates' personal details. Kills (with dates), decorations etc...

- Being able to see the line-up for each mission, which pilots flying where in the formations etc. And make the pilots names appear as icons inside missions instead of just a generic name like RABBIT 1. Might not be everybodys taste, but would add to the immersion to know which of your fellow pilots are going down in flames before your eyes...! (make this sort of thing switchable in the settings).

- Being able to change the formation, loadout and which pilots fly which planes (if you're the squadron commander, of course).

- Introduce things like fatigue and different skill ratings for pilots in the squadron, that change dynamically and that you have to take into consideration as commander. CFS3 tried something like this, and it was a sympathetic attempt, but they never got it quite right. I'm sure Luthier would!

MAPS & INTEL

- Being able to follow the day-to-day progress of the battle (with/without FOW) on an operational style map. Would be very engrossing to be able to see the RAF being pushed further and further back, airfields going through different stages of damage, radar stations going on and off line.

- Use videos and newspaper articles to highlight important events in the campaign (like new tactics being used, an important speech from Churchill, Eagle Day, newsreels etc, etc...).

- A map and dossier over all aces on your (and perhaps the enemy's) side. Might not be realistic but would be very fun to follow the progress of aces from other squadrons. A kill-board with the top aces of the campaign and their status & location would have to be there too. The kill-board/ace dossiers could be dynamic or just contain historical information. I'm sure you could get some forum members to find all the information you would need to make such a dossier, map and kill-board.
Just imagine how cool it would be to follow and try to match the day-to-day performance of Werner Molders or Josef Frantisek...!!!

MISSIONS

- Make it possible for mission designers to start some missions in the air so they can set the player up in certain situations, fx. as stumbling into a big bomber formation or being ambushed.

- Have a great variety of missions with a great variety of action. Some missions will be very low on action, perhaps just an interception of a lone recon plane by you alone or a scramble to catch a wounded bomber or even a wild goose chase!

THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE:

The most significant feature of all would be to make all of this moddable.
Make it possible for the campaign designers to make their own squadron management, campaign environment, add their own features and statistics, their own graphics and menus.
This would ensure that everybody could get what they wanted - and you could concentrate on the core of the game and let the community design THE CAMPAIGN MODE TO END ALL CAMAPIGN MODES!!

.................................................. ......................

That's all I could think of right now. If you need inspiration just look to the Red Baron series. It nailed many of the features I mention above.

The Luftwaffe equivalent for Tally-Ho! was Pauke-Pauke!

Horrido! was shout when a pilot thought he achieved a victory. A pilot who would see this E/A go down, would confirm: Abschuss!

Oleg, luthier, please read what MUST to be in SOW:

I want some AI special moves, i.e. 1 in the 1000 pilots would cheat player. If you don't know what I mean, read: You fly in your hurri or spit in ground cover mission, and you see some stukas. You attack one and it falls. Then, the second one dives during attack into the VERY LOW clouds (not more than 3000ft) and when is in, drops his bomb and stays in the cloud. When you get out of it you see a ball of fire and alot of smoke and dust on the ground, so you naturally think that you shot him down, and fly away. But after about 2 minutes he just disengages with max speed :D
Or something similar ;)

But for this kind of cheat the ,,Enemy Aircraft: Destroyed" has to be deleted.

Hearing on the radio a rookie pilot to vomit once the air combat has finished and the flight is returning home.

Why would he do that?

Read "throw up"! aka " to vomit"

Exactly!
I edited the post to write it right,....i hope!. Sorry, sometimes i dont know how to write something right in english.
And he would do that because of the stress of the combat, because he would be very nervous, and/or sick of all the maneuvering.

Hello All, new guy to these forums here. I am really looking forward to this release! I have been flying combat sims since top of the line displays were a whole 16 shades of gray....

I think the post I partially quoted was spot on. Many of those features have been in other sims, but did work so why re-invent the wheel? I am sure there will be some astounding developments in this release, but not everything has to be brand new.

Things that I have enjoyed from other sims or would like to see (most have been mentioned in some form):

Having the option to fly as one pilot for a career. As that pilot moves up in rank, he can gain more responsibility up to and including running the roster in the squadron and assigning pilots to missions.

Ability to sometimes be able to pick which of three missions to fly while most of the time being assigned missions.

Targets of opportunity. Trains, vehicles, troops that can be targeted after completion of the primary mission. These could add to the pilot's "score" and influence his career. This would be huge.

A dynamic battle map. Even back in the SWotL days, the battle line "moved". As the war progressed, Allied pilots could start flying from airfields in France, etc. while German pilots had to not only get back over the channel but make it over friendly territory before bailing or doing an emergency landing. A destroyed bridge remains destroyed until repaired.

Deteriorating aircraft systems after damage. Oil pressure dropping, fuel levels falling, oil on the windscreen, fire, etc.. Landing safely becomes a challenge.

Having to avoid debris either from disintegrating enemy aircraft or ground explosions. Kinda takes the fun out of blowing up a train at point blank range.

Special missions such as delivering a friendly agent or rescue. Recon. Assignments based on intel regarding important enemy personnel or targets.

Randomize encounters! This really adds to SP re-playability. Enemy fighters do not need to show up in the same place at the same time.

I want to have the option of having to manage my aircraft. Prop, fuel, and mixture settings for example.

SIM Killers:

Linear mission structure. No reason to replay and really shortens the lifespan of a game. You play it, you beat it, you put it away. Not good.

Impossible assignments. I should more accurately say, unrealistic assignments such as "You and your wingman must shoot down 17 enemy bombers on this mission". C'mon. Pair that with a linear mission structure and you end up re-playing (and failing) the same mission over and over until you either get lucky and win or give up.

Having to jump from one plane to another from mission to mission. I want to be a "pilot" on one side or the other and see how well I would do in that situation. Can I survive a tour of duty, or in the case of German pilots the war? At least give me a "realistic" career option. Please don't make me be a fighter pilot one day, a bomber pilot the next, and a test pilot the day after. Let me get to know one type of aircraft and then maybe move on to another as either I or my squadron is re-assigned. Hope that makes sense.

Poor flight models. It takes much more than jerking the stick hither and yon to be a pilot. Planes can stall at high speeds, be forced out of their flight envelope, and react differently at different speeds and altitudes. Different models are different and thus have their own advantages and disadvantages that should be faithfully modeled.

Time limits. I needn't say more.

Having followed this forum and the posts of Oleg and his staff, I am confident this game is going to be a blast. I highly doubt all of my "wish list" will be fulfilled let alone the others in this thread. In reading the history of IL-2 and how it progressed, I am equally confident this sim will be expanded for years to come. I love the eye candy that has been posted, I just really hope the structure of the game matches that level of sophistication.

Splitter

Well trained pilots during BoB, who where in flight school for several years doing acrobatics and stuff sure wouldn't vomit. The anxiety might get the better part of them, granted, but I doubt that the flying would.

P.S.: I knew what you meant with "throw-up" ;)

That´s why i said rookie pilots! :)

I bet you guys are getting this idea from that film about Czech pilots in the RAF. It was a good movie and yes, having some indication that the occasional rookie breaks down under combat stress is a nice touch.

We have a ton of good ideas posted in this thread, i doubt we'll see most of them implemented upon release but since SoW will be moddable we'll probably be able to add some things like these. For example, you make a mission trigger that targets AI wingmen under a certain skill level, then it randomly chooses one and again, randomly applies debilitating effects on him (based on a % based formula). This trigger could be copy-pasted and the final effect of each copy changed, so that you could quickly create triggers for stuff like a rookie throwing up in combat, panicking and disengaging, doing something stupid, being reckless and so on. Then, you could copy these triggers into a special folder that the campaign missions would access, so that you could import them into your single player carreers.

something with damage model-

when gettin hit on engine, it might get fire real quick or not at all, all randomly.

same with hits on fuel tanks. sometimes its only a leak, sometimes it starts to smoke. when it smokes, random change to to light up on fire on random time scale. if it gets on fire, random change for exploding after that with randon time scale as well.

same with other areas when takin damage. if wing takes hit it would be nice if pilot would not know how bad hit it is, so it might crack easily with stick movement or all by itself. or not at all.

more randomness on damage model, as now you can observe how many "hitpoints" you still got left. and you can trust that plane takes you home for sure if wing is badly damaged and no more hits are gettin in.

there is no fear in this game on that part, as you learn what plane can take after what amount of damage and so on.

randomnes and alot so no one would ever anymore know how badly his plane is hit and will it stay air or ignite on fire so that pilots no more can trust but are filled with paranoia feelings.

that for sure would bring some immersion and feelings on flying.


like hit on right wing, graphical attributes for damage seems light on the surface. but pilot doenst know how bad it is from the inside.
so its then dice rolled by cpu that how much G can wing take and on which direction, as well how much speed it can resist as well.
every time different result when takin hits, like on critical parts especially.

wings or parts of them starts to flutter, giving signal/sounds/shakin on screen(=information to pilot) that something isnt right on this speed so it makes them worry and think. sometimes no warning at all. just snap like p51 on high speed high g turn :)

that kind of dm with much of variation would give some good vibes.

Your ideas are very nice Stafroty and i'm glad you mentioned the most important part in the mechanics you describe: feedback to the pilot.

Just like you say, we want to be unsure how long a damaged aircraft will hold, but we also want to be able to tell when something is wrong. Otherwise it would be too frustrating and not so much fun.

Imagine for example taking a single cannon hit on the right wing. If the wing vibrates/flutters too much as you go faster or pull Gs, you hear buffeting sounds and metal stressing, then you have enough information to know that it's time to RTB. If there's no information however, you'll have to assume the worst in every single case, or even worse, get killed (virtually of course) without having a chance to react.

That's why having sources of information is equally important with randomized elements in the DM, it wouldn't work without it. A lot of people have talked about how cool it would be to have small randomized variations in the DM and difficulty options for random failures, but i think i haven't seen a lot of us mention the need for a way to understand when something is wrong, until your post. Excellent observation there ;)

Lets revise the time compression
 

For me the most boring part of the flight sessions is watching the black screen of compression or X8 unrealistic appearance.

I think during the time compression it would be great to watch our formation in different angles with some random cinematic angles ( fly pasts or zoomed up views ) and artistic camera filters. Funny & informative radio chatter between pilots or ground control will surely break the most monotonous side of the simulation.

Haunebu, RFZ, and Vril were essentially the same lineage of aircraft. Later RFZ's carried the name "Haunebu", starting with the RFZ-5 but those came later in the war, the RFZ-2 was flying in '39 and flew missions during the Battle of Britain. I think it was the only vril aircraft that flew actual missions and was caught on photo by outsiders. From what I've read other Haunebu only saw test flights and the only photos were those taken by the Germans

either way, there probably isn't enough photos to model each version accurately to where you could distinguish the difference, you would likely have to combine elements from different models based on the photos that exist then the rest would be mere speculation. I can imagine if it was in the game most players who saw it would think it was an alien craft, just like in real life :)

Yes, the same lineage: hoaxes invented long after WW II. Mostly by people trying to sell books to the gullible.

Of no relevence whatsoever to a BoB simulation.

Yes, they are all very closely related to rubbish.

Why do people persist in believing this nonsense?

:rolleyes:

I thought it was well documented, granted I haven't spent a lot of time caring enough about it to find out but I dont see why it's so hard to believe.

Is there a reason you are so angered by it?

If there was such a test craft (or even if there wasn't) I dont see the harm of having something like it as an easter egg or something, this is a thread about random, unlikely/unbelievable things afterall. No need to get your panties in a bunch about it

You don't find it hard to believe that with 1940's technology and materials that the Germans designed and built a flying saucer?

Are you spectacularly ignorant of history, or maybe just 14 years old?

Do you also believe that the Me 262 broke the sound barrier and the Elvis is not dead?

I really worry about the future.

Truly.

do I believe they built a turbine-based engined and put it in a saucer shaped experimental craft that barely flew and most test pilots barely escaped with their lives as most accounts describe? Very Likely

Was the RFZ2 functional enough to fly a few recon missions? Less likely but plausible

Do you believe a nation of people were convinced through propaganda to follow a man into a insane crusade to try to exterminate a race in a belief that he would create a master race of God-men?

Um, where are these 'accounts'? Have any of them been shown to be authentic?

Frankly, the idea that German jet turbine technology of the time could have provided the power-to-weight ratios necessary for a VTOL saucer seems highly doubtful, and I know of no other technology that would have got the 'saucers' airborne, if they were anything like the supposed descriptions. Of course, they were working on helicopters (very sucessfully), and maybe the 'turbines' were just rotors, described by someone without the technical knowledge to distinguish between the two.

I'm sorry AdMan, but there is no way I can take you seriously.

BTW, I have this very old, and very large bridge in Brooklyn that I could let you have, cheap.

We're talking about a videogame, so maybe you should stop taking yourself so seriously. Whether myth of fact it's just a fun, simple suggestion along the same lines that the Lerche appears in IL-2

not sure what tiny box you keep your mind in where in an age of great flight innovation and all the wacky designs that came before it just to achieve flight and all the technological innovations that the Germans developed that an experimental aircraft in the shape of a disc (successful or not) is such an impossibility

I think your problem is that your attributing all the other theories that people may have about "vril" to me and attacking me for it. It was a suggestion, for a VIDEOGAME

Fixed that for you. Remember that a lot of people despise the fact that the Lerche was included in Il-2 to begin with when there were so many more interesting and useful 1946 aircraft that could have been included.

it's a videogame, dont kid yourself

Really? Does it cater to the same audience? Most people who play Il-2 don't tend to appreciate big mistakes in historical accuracy if they can be avoided.

http://www.pcpilotsireland.com/revie...VIN_737800.jpg
this is a flight simulator used to train pilots to fly specific aircraft

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/...a075ceb94a.jpg
This is a videogame used to entertain geeks with too much free time and grumpy old pilots trying to recapture their glory years

It never ceases to amaze me we all seem to have a common problem.

All those friggin wires on the desk
around the mouse
and the rest of the house.

Looking at all the nests of wires, and all the nerd looking attachments scattered over the desktop sim enthusiats do appear to be very disorganized geeks.

You need one of these ...

http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/rele...orkUSBHub.html

Wow, you have a really appalling appreciation of the amount of work that goes into producing a simulator like Il-2 compared to a run of the mill game. To call it "not a simulator" because it's not as high-fidelity as an industry example is really quite bizarre. Guess what? In the 1980s and 90s the system in the first picture would have had a similar degree of fidelity in flight modelling to that Il-2 manages on home computers. Does that make it a game?

I doubt it would work, too expensive for the number ports I'm using. I currently have 2 powered USB Hubs. It takes all 4 positions on one hub just for CH Products.

Prothrottle, Fighterstick, MFP, Pro Pedals = 4 usb hub positions.

The mouse, keyboard,webcam take 3 more postions on the 2nd hub.

Somehow, I never have any positions open on any of the powered hubs, and usually a couple on the computer are in use as well.

That calculates to 10+ usb devices being active most of the time.

Ouch! I usually only have mouse, keyboard, joystick and pedals at most.

IL2 is a totally different genre of game. Simulators are very different from games. Games are strictly for entertainment. Simulators actually have or can have many purposes.

The average gamer stays and enjoys a game appx 2 weeks.

I've been doing IL2 around 10 years. Games bore me, and Il2 bores people that don't have much propensity for detail or dealing with a lengthy learning process of an IL2.

Just preparing to be half way successful Online can take months of practice, before you have any proficiency. Players can't just flip around like star wars ignoring physics and performance. It's just not possible with an IL2.

Gamers are in their world, and air combat and flight simmers are in theirs.

We do have our moments

I'm with Grunch and Nearmiss here. Though IL-2 is 'a videogame' it is more than that, to anyone with an appreciation of the history being simulated. Of course it isn't 'accurate', but that doesn't mean accuracy or authenticity should be ignored. Adding Nazi Flying Saucers, and other fantasy elements just makes no sense in a context of 'historical' modelling. If anyone could come up with actual evidence for such things, it would be another matter, but adding things because they would be 'cool' or 'awesome' would make IL-2 just a variation on every other shoot-em-up/RPG/whatever.

If you want Nazi Flying Saucers, provide evidence they existed...

Believe it or not, people actually ask for that stuff. Oleg accomodates them, because who can dispute the FM... since most didn't fly or fly much. LOL

Oleg is a good guy so we do have some strange requests that get filled.

Even with the Lerch the in game version was modified so it would be feasibly capable of actual flight in real life.

To go down the path of "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" and "Crimson Skies" and endorse imaginary and impossible weapons would disenfranchise most of the long term players. A modern version of "Crimson Skies" may actually sell well but these days it is more suited to the Xbox arcade market then PC gaming.

The closest to an operational saucer craft was, of course, the Avro-car of the late 1950's developed by Avro in Canada with US military involvement. After years of research and several prototypes it only ever achieved a maximum speed of 20 knots (37 km/h) and the ability to traverse a ditch six feet across and 18 inches deep. Tests showed even if it could achieve a decent altitude it was unstable and would be difficult or impossible to control. This suggests it is highly unlikely a WWII effort by the Third Reich could actually have flown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar

Sorry for being late to the party, but I want the following, even though it is stupid. :)

I think that this qualifies for the "did that just happen" moniker. Though it is nicely subtle and could easily be missed by the unaware.

If in BOB we are to get weather and specifically wind direction. Then determining wind direction when making a forced landing away from an airfield, where there would presumably be wind socks provided, I would think would be important - and in fact it was. So using cues from nature pilots would try to determine the wind direction. Things like movement of water and trees, and the behaviour of Cows, and other grazing animals.

I was reading Luftwaffe Test Pilot by Hans-Werner Lerche, the other day. And one method that the author used was the direction that cows face in a field. So I want this modeled, imperfectly of course, because it is not foolproof. But there is some evidence for it that if the wind is strong enough cows will face away (shielding their faces) from the wind. :)

Here is the passage from the Lerche book. "I had even determined the wind direction by the position of the cows which are supposed to stand with their backs to the wind." page 60. It is worth noting that the man flew 125 different types of aircraft (not counting variations of the same aircraft) and was extremely experienced.

See the following ...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_cow...same_direction

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ind-42437.html

This last one is pilots debating the issue. There is also a link to a tragic (perhaps also funny) video of a Tiger Moth hitting a cow on landing. The plane seems fine by the way.

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...en-eating.html

+1 for windsock cows. Total immersion breaker for me if not included.

Yes

You are not on the FAA forum, you are on the 1C GAMES forum with "Necrovision" and "StarWolves 3" banners surrounding your posts. You cannot walk into any flight school and have your hours spent on Il2 count towards earning a license. Sorry

It's in the flight simulator genre of games, I'll give you that but as long as you can buy it on amazon.com for 50 bucks and it says "T for teen" on the cover, it's a game.

I've just noticed the discussion about simulator vs game. You lot are very amusing indeed.
There's no shame in playing your video game. You don't have to call it a simulator to try and make the hobby seem somehow more mature.

I'm positive that 50 years ago you would all have had train sets, and the pit builders of today would have dressed up as little train drivers back then.

It's a game, you silly, silly men. A very good game, too. When you simulate, or pretend to do something, be it cowboys and indians or playing IL2, you are engaging in play.

I can get quite annoyed when people dismiss gaming as childish, yet insist on watching television aimed at those with subnormal intelligence. But I never lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, I'm playing games, whether it's Black Shark or BFBC2.

Kind of reminds of of that Argentinian bloke who played Silent Hunter in real-time and designed his flat to look like a submarine. I am curious: how many of you actually do dress up to play IL2?

I only have a joystick on an upturned wastepaper basket, but I still prefer nothing less than full switch settings.

50 years ago I did have a train set.

The point is Ad Man that many, if not most of us would rather not see all the silly, pointless Luft 46 junk in this title.

There are so many other more desperately needed aircraft.


Oh, and I hate Nazi's, so the continuing deification of their imaginary hardware does indeed wrankle my feathers. My father and his generation fought those idiots so we could all be here and enjoy the freedoms we have to play on the internet.

If you don't understand that, I pity you.

Are you completely ignorant of the context of this question? It was about why fewer people want Luft '46 aircraft in the game. That's about target audiences, not whether I think I can get a pilot's license. But given any of my previous discussions with you it should come as no surprise that that has gone completely over your head (I seem to recall one occasion where I made a JOKE and you said "Ban this faggot"). Bottom line: In an economic sense, do you think that the target market of this game is similar to that of any of the games you have mentioned above? Do you think that the vast majority of the audience of this game want aircraft that they can use to play campaigns that actually happened, and where simulating a fictional campaign, don't you think that they'd want aircraft that might have actually POSSIBLY flown in that what-if scenario? THAT is what I am talking about. :rolleyes: *sigh* My faith in the human race wavers yet more. The only reason for the discussion about simulator vs. game is to highlight the difference in the tastes of the fan base of this genre. Any gamer likes a what-if scenario, or a '46 aircraft, but most fans of flight-sims like ones that can still fly using the physical laws of the game engine without having one of these put into the flightmodel to make it take off.

Well said sir.

I hope so. No doubt I'll receive only insults in reply.

Not to worry, it will never be as bad as the Rof forum at SimHQ...

:-P

Settle down there there buddy, we all know you can't log the hours spent on Il2, its for fun (is that why your here too? I cant figure that out?)
BTW I checked and I've never run across the - FAA forum -, so thanks for clearing that up. You have some extra free time too if your reading through this forum.

tl;dr

it's a flight simulation game dude, get over it

that was my only point

lol at being scorned over a faggot joke

of course, I wasn't excluding myself, I fall into the "geeks with too much free time" category

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zFX...eature=related

i love more the explosions of the bomber of this trailer than the storm of war he111 fire. but i can live wiht that;)

nice animation, the 2d mixed with 3d reminds me of the macross zero series but better looking.

good video zakkandrachoff good explosion good sound effect and sound of bullets uaooo this is a remake of japanese secret ww2 airplane. uaooooooooooo Fantastic Japanese power i am convinced if U.S.A. not use atomik bomb Japan winn the war.

Ah, the ignorance of youth.

Imperial Japan lost the day they opened the wider Pacific war.

A. They commited all their reserves from the outset.

B. Their industrial capacity and expertise in manufacturing was well below US and European standards. Yes, they had some very good designers and designs, but no way to bring them to fruition.

C. The Imperial Japanese military was a totally tactical one. Once they had taken all there initial gains, in the first six months of the war they had no way to capitalize on their success. They had next to no force of combat engineers, no organized logistics command, no natural resources to speak of (why they started the war in the first place), no effective anti-submarine capability, and a totally flawed, extremely racially based assessment of how the US and Britain would react. They thought we would cave in and surrender. Hence they were not prepared in any way for a war lasting longer than a year.

In short, they didn't have a chance to win.

secret japanese army imported from Germany and italy. and the project mod in japanese mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33TQNnEArBg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OyNl...eature=related

Did you even read my post?

The Japanese had no way to produce any of those new designs in numbers, or at a quality level that would allow them to be effective in combat. Their industry was already almost totally destroyed at the time the Shinden made it's first flight.

P-80s and other more advanced US aircraft were on their way to the Pacific at the time of the atom bomb attacks.

They had no chance, none, to even hope for an armistice at that point.

With the war in Europe over, the entire might of the Allies was being prepared to rain down on Japan.

Those prototype aircraft would help Japan about as much as did the paper napkin designs that Germany was fooling with.

Stop getting your history from YouTube, and do some serious reading.

It's far more interesting as well.

yes yes EIaurens American power is very superior but japanese have a shanche but not use in good mode. the story is story but the fantasy is fantasy.

You are the winner but i think if japanese use the misteriuous bombs in north America (Canada) whit chemical gas japanese winn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdt8g...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO6-9...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z_PS...eature=related

UAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD VIDEO zakkandrachoff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maunc...eature=related

It is what it is.

There is no fixing the past, no matter how much you think it should be changed.

I've heard it said, "Eating fish is good for brain development". All growing children should be eating fish. :roll:

As half a German I cant thank you enough you guys fought on our side...
Not sure if you even can call that "fighting", but anyway.

:rolleyes:

They didn't even know how to surrender - never happend before in Japanese history.

Which was nothing to do with the discussion (which was about who plays this game compared to other genres) other than a chance for you to stroke your e-penis and get obsessive about definitions and naming conventions. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because straight up insulting people counts as jokes now. :rolleyes:

Oh well, never mind AdMan, you'll always be my favourite humourless definitions-nazi.

I loooooved the way that Sky Crawlers looked, I errrrr...just got bored of the story waiting for stuff to happen when I started to watch it ages ago, haha. :oops: Looks like I should have been more patient! Not sure how authentic the smoke and such are, though, they're very exaggerated I suspect, does look awesome, though. Actually, watching that, what it seems is missing in SoW compared to most people's expectations is the mixing of the fire and smoke into one plume near the source of the smoke...they're always two seperate effects that are not necessarily emerging from the same location. The fire also seems to be overly bright towards the middle compared to movie effects and such that most people compare to. Once again I don't know how relevant that criticism is.

"Give me some "holy sh... did that just happen" ideas"!
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We all know the drill. Read briefing. Take off. Follow waypoints. Engage target. Maneuver. Go home. Debrief.

I'm looking for some ideas to break up the monotony. Things that make you jump out of your seat. Things that immerse you in the game world. These can be based on historical events, or these can be your own ideas, as long as they're rooted in reality.

This means things that happen before the mission, during the mission, or after the mission. Interesting new mission types. Events. Features. These can be one-off events we may try to recreate during the mission, or more general ideas such as "it'd be cool if X did Y when Z".

And yes, while it'd be extremely cool if a variety of highly detailed civilian females with 20 types of historical clothing walked the Prince of Wales pier, and propwash of you Spitfire affected their skirts, and it'd be even cooler if the captain of the German schooner dropped his monocle when a flight of Blenheims appeared on the horizon, but let's try to keep in mind that we have limited development resources and a tight schedule.

I have lots of ideas of my own, but I'd like to keep them a secret. So I may be a little vague further down the thread when I see an idea I've already had or something new I'd like to use.

Also, please try to keep this thread constructive. Let's use it to offer new or add to existing ideas. Let's not turn it into a heated discussion of why you think a certain idea sucks."

Time gentlemen!

Viking

Anything other than a bikini and I couldn't care less.

my $.02

that was a discussion you were having with yourself, I was suggesting a "holy sh... did that just happen moment" as the thread title asks for. Then you and a couple other people started throwing a tissy fit

gp, I'd love to give my hand at flying those

I didn't throw a hissy fit, I just pointed out why your suggestion might not be appreciated by a fairly large proportion of the people who play the game. ElAurens threw a hissy fit. ;) I think you're likely to see lots of weird and wonderful experimental aircraft like that appear if the 3rd party addon industry takes off.

I'd like to see occasional confusion from AAA about which aircraft they're meant to be shooting at. Seems to be a feature of a lot of pilots' memoirs, cursing friendly gunners.

Well all I want personally is different colored smoke so I can make pretty aerobatic and air race screenshots :D

Has anyone asked for exahust stack fires if we over prime our Merlins? Of course we'ld need some ground crew with extinguishers!

What i really hope for:

People running around on the airfields, maybe pilots running to their planes.
It makes the athmosphere much greater.

Youre flying in a bf110 heading toward your target when fireworks pop off on the ground and launch high flying, 480 foot-long stout wire cables 600 feet in the air; with a parachute on each end! ....projectile barrage cables!

(Nobody believes you when you get back to base)

Churchills favorite secret weapon: parachute and cable launchers (UP: "unrotated projectile" PAC: "parachute and cable device" )by Prof Frederick Lindemann

I always see old film footage of "the few" sitting outside theready room waiting to "scramble" when the bell or siren goes off, I don't know if you can model a first person "run to the plane" similar to FSX active camera" or "walk around" add-ons..a simple key stroke would then put you in the cockpit once you at at the plane. Then running to the plane, start up, take off would certainly chew up a few seconds, meanwhile there could be a few variants to the reason for the scramble, enemy fighters straffing the field while you are trying to take off, enemy bombers bombing the field or a raid nearby..all this with good radio chatter, other pilots plus ground control instructions assessment etc. Would certainly get the adrenaline pumping...

It would be great if when making a mission for sow it was required to state a time and date and the game would set the historically correct weather for that time and date. This info should be fairly easy to find. Some days they were grounded because the weather was so bad. Using actual data would also go a long to correcting the idea that the summer over England in 1940 was only hot and sunny, even in October!

I want to do missions whit aleatory waypoints.
A coupe of hurris that go out in misión of cap and the objetive will be 4 ju 88 esclted for 2 me110, but i want a trigger of aleatory wayponts, not a ll the time the same travel

And will be great if oleg team do so much EDIT MISSIONS and we can finish edit this missions and the scripts for the triggers or gamelogics. (like ArmA2)

hope oleg team give us a good examples scripts and instructions of how do missions whit aleatory waypoints. I always like do my our small missions

My favorite’s missions are of little chequepoints and for example. in one, flying hurricane, I found 2 me110, when I finish whit this two, I go to the next waypont ,and I advise a dornier doing recognizing. Then I landing, but a trigger when I land, over the airfield begins a couple of G-50 and I rearm and refuel and take off for engage.

I don’t like so much big raids and that stuff.
like more little missions, casual missions, or something like that. that wedo a recognaissing flight and dont know what we gonna found

When some of we have so much lag in the middle of a campaing, we will begins do small missions. You will see! And when this happens, I want an edit mission’s example, whit scripts examples.

Sorry my crap english

Have we covered the pilot portraits? The squadron mated in IL2 are severely lacking. I have browsed for some actual pictures of RAF pilots from the Battle of Britain. I would like to see squadron mates that actually look like people from 1940, not a bunch of modern stock-shots with photoshopped on uniforms, and I would like to see a bit of individuality. Some shots:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2heeas2.jpg

http://www.independent.co.uk/multime...nd_400991s.jpg

http://www.independent.co.uk/multime...nd_400987s.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/...81_634x442.jpg

http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_ar.../v0_master.jpg

These are all RAF, but I guess you get the point.

i think it would be kinda cool to have a few birds sit around the airfields that will fly off and land somewhere random whenever they get disturbed, by like an approaching vehicle, engine noise or something similar.

Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing the progress!

Just wondering if we will have the sensation of hanging by the straps when flying inverted, so that the line of sight changes to one higher up in the cockpit? Wouldn't have to change much but it would help to give the sensation of going inverted, particularly when rolling over fast, the pilot "drops" suddenly.

I think pilots were strapped in pretty tight but this sort of thing may be possible based on Luthier's recent comments about movements of the plane affecting the crew inside. If that's the case, it'll make for some interesting flying while going through turbulence or tailing bombers.

Continuing on from this one:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...8&postcount=92

Blenheim Campaign - continued

Mission Five. It's been some weeks since your fourth. An anti-shipping mission near the Hook of Holland. It didn't go well. Flakships and fighters saw to that. With a real life attrition rate averaging 30% for every mission, Cliffs of Dover players often joke about the Blenheim campaign, "so how does it end?"

You return from hospital to a new aircraft and a new crew. This mission is a group operation against the invasion barges at Boulogne. Bombing is to be conducted at a height of 16000ft. Who the Hell thought that one up?

Skipping from the briefing screen and map, you visit the crew screen to meet your new Bomb Aimer and Wop/Air Gunner. All the members of the Squadron are listed, grouped by aircraft. Your aircraft is D-Dog. You click on it to expand the list and show the crew.

Here you can see the AI crew mambers names, statistics and skill levels. This can be very useful. If someone isn't good at their job, you'll want to know about it. Maybe you can trade them. Or maybe if they're good, you'll know to keep them when approached by another crew who is looking to exchange .

Your Bomb Aimer is new. His Experience level is listed as low, but Morale and Zeal are both high. As much as one might expect really. The Wireless/Gunner though... Cowan, RAAF. Experience is very high, but Morale is way down. Very strange! You look at his additional statistics and suddenly it all becomes clear. This will be his sixteenth mission. Sixteen! How on earth has he survived? Good God. No wonder he's all-in.

Later....

In the air and approaching Boulogne at 16000ft. 38 Blenheims push on through the punishing flak on their final run to the target. You keep on in the loose Vic with your flight leader as the AI bomb aimer opens the bomb bay doors and calls out corrections...

"Right.... Left-left... Steady!" Shrapnel rattles against the fuselage as you concentrate on holding course. Ahead, two Blenheims are streaming smoke and falling back, crowding another three bombers in the Vic behind. "Steady...!" says the bomb aimer. Plummy voice. Pompous bastard!

"S-Sugars had it" says the AI gunner. You look to the right. Your flight leaders port wing is hit and in flames. As you watch, his aircraft heels over veering towards you. You twitch reflexively on the rudder pedals. For a moment it looks like he's going to ram, but suddenly the port wings folds and the whole mess falls away. Flak rocks the aircraft once more.

"Left-left!" orders the Bomb airmer.

"Just drop the f*cking things!" shouts the W/Gunner.

The first bombs are beginning to fall from the lead bombers. Any second now...

"Bomb doors closed" says the bomb aimer. "It's no good. Steer one-one-five. We're going round again..."

As you throw the Blenheim into a steep bank, you and the gunner both hurl curses at the bomb aimers back. If you get out of this one, you'll trade him out of the ship the first chance you get!

Spotting a U-Boat and seeing it Submerge, or for that matter seeing it Surface. An Ambulance that roars out across the field with a siren screaming to meet a stricken aircraft that is coming in smoking. Static figures for user made missions that look like they are in some action; Officer with Binoculars, man pointing, loader with ammo belt, all placeable at various levels for tops of buildings (tower), wings, etc..

A visit from royalty...unexpected of course, for security reasons.

Queen Lizzy:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/...5ec293ed_o.jpg

Well I always dress up to play IL2; slippers, worn t-shirt, men's underwear, a beer on occasion and a silly cap with a metal tripod thingy with reflector tape :)
My wife thinks I look really manly!!

Loved this answer in that link of yours:
"I think in the southern hemisphere dairy cows rotate clockwise, while in the northern hemisphere counter-clockwise."
:)

Perhaps a tube of Brylcreem with the Collectors edition will give everyone the "feel" also ?

Tube? When I was young it came in (glass?) pots.

Luthier if you are still reading after 40 pages,thanks a lot for asking us what do we want in the game.You cant imagine how much confidence boost a player gets when the devs of his favorite game ask him what he wants.

Before takeoff
As others have said,it would be really nice to see the airfields come to life.Airplanes landing, emergency crew on alert,planes getting towed in and out of the hangars for repair,maintenance crew, painting,refueling,checking the planes.That would add a lot before starting a mission.A more detailed start up procedure if possible.

After takeoff/during mission
Engine,mechanical failures on our planes or our squad mates.Unexpected failures that could alter the outcome of the mission,for example a wingman is losing fuel and wont make it home if he reaches the target, so he turns back home.Instruments damaged by enemy fire causing them to malfunction thus providing wrong info.

When landing
Having partial or complete landing gear failure,even without being damaged by enemy fire.Airfields bombed, so the squad needs to locate another one to land.Seeing one of your squad mates crash his plane due to some engine/landing gear/ failure.Crosswinds,making you re approach the airfield again.

Once again:
Thanks again for asking us :D

Top ace in air combat make enemy fears ... event run away

If you stay to much time in enemy territory...and active, they will try to intercep you

Campagne like SWOTL, you chose about priority

You can force 1 alone enemy aircraft to land on your base = Got great info on that and you may ch ose its