I remember very similar debates on the UBI il2 forum, regarding namely the too low power of small caliber guns. In Il2 one could put 1000 .303 rounds on a bomber without apparent effects. Apart from the in-game damage parameters of the individual rounds (e.g. damage radius) the weapons effects are a function of a few other parameters: accuracy of the round landing spot, modeling of vital areas of the plane, modeling of the consequences of damages to those vital parts.
Oleg spoke about an increase by 10x of the damageable parts with respect to Il2. I see indeed a huge variety of damages in the chat messages. In many cases the plane behaves coherently, e.g. the hydraulic governor locks if the main hydraulic system is hit, and the control surface cables disable the corresponding ailerons etc.
However my doubt are that:

a) not all of the damages seem reflected on the actual plane behavior.
b) the damage radius/effect of the individual rounds seems a bit off, with a huge advantage for the explosive rounds.

However we lack too many information on the DM a the moment to whine too much :-)

Bye!

It's not just the damage itself that brings the plane down, it's the pilot who decides to continue or not.
The AI lacks this human part, and therefore you have to hit something vital, making it way more complicated then it was in IRL.

I just picked up a copy of Cliffs of Dover several days ago. My initial outings have been in a Spitfire, Hurricane, and Bf-109.

I have to say I like it and it has potential. The main function of that is it feels like you are operating the aircraft.

Dunno what you do but the absolutely ever most I needed was about 500 shots. Bad shooting on my side and overkill as well as I wanted it to go down quick - the plane was already in its slow dead turns, going slower and slower in wide circles. Pumped more into it as I wanted it to go down quick but were not needed.

Usually 150 hits per bomber is what I need, but if I get a good attack run it's less than 100:
Attachment 9638

Ludwig Havenhorst describes after ground attacks damage to their He 11 in Russia:
"Our He 111 was hit a number of times. The crew chief counted 151 holes. All of the remaining aircraft had sustained similar damage.
In the following days our squadron lost six more aircraft in the same way. They were written off as a result of heavy damage or shot down."

As said about 150 do the trick usually in game, less if hit square and fair.

One thing that does not work is sitting at dead 6 however, you have to shoot from angles.

And I haven't observed any engine fire in He 111 so far, either it's a large kaboom tearing off the wing or it is thin streams of smoke (black/white) from the engine, which eventually dies down, but never a proper engine fire.

I have observed fires on a he111 but it is extremely rare, not like the ju88 or do17z which seem to be more well rounded in their damage models.

Are you saying 150 hits on a he111 in COD? In il2 yes it's possible but sorry but I don't buy it for il2, you need at least 500 solid hits at deflection bring one down, often it can go to 1000. Quite ridiculous.

Stukas are insanely tough along with the he111.

Good luck addman if you think your aim is that good! :grin: Obviously better than actual pilots ..

Don't forget a panicing IL2 pilot (Me!) will be flying all over the sky.

@Sven, yes, very true. We've all watch the heroic propaganda @ the movies but in real life things are very different.

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Sometimes I need 500 hits and I think that's already quite a lot - in particular as often it still just goes into the right-turn slower and slower circles but still might take 10min until it actually crashes in the water.
Like this one:
Attachment 9658

Good deflection and it goes kaboom with very few hits, like this one:
Attachment 9657

And yes I agree, the result of the damage might be wrong. Like in the He111 I have not have once in all this testing and engine/wing fire or thick black smoke from an engine.

Only thin white or black smoke or massive explosion.

I think it's fair enough not to expect to kill the pilot from a six o'clock attack but a prolonged burst of mg/cannon fire should rupture lines, snap cables destroy moving parts and wreck flight surfaces. In short damaged ac should be out of the fight and crew should be getting ready to bail out. At the moment such damaged ac are often capable of continued high g evasive maneuvers and some times still deadly to the attacker.

The ju87 is the real mystery though, the thing is invulnerable!

@tools4fools- yes there are 2 ways the he111 goes down- 1. wing blows off instantly hollywood style with dewilde or 2. put 1000 hits into it and it will slowly decrease in altitude. It will never belch black smoke either, only fuel and coolant vapor. The ju88 and do17z are far more interesting and believable.

I did a few more test flights.

Actually you don't need to put 1000 hits in - usually it goes in the slow death circle at latest around 500 hits. Still, that's an awful lot.
If you pump after 500 hits more into it it often doesn't change a thing. Still stays in once piece, and slow death circle...
For the fun of it I tried it once and continued shooting:Attachment 9665

Important is to shoot at convergence, if you do so even from six you can get the catastorphic explosions - if you hit the right spot:
Attachment 9666

So I changed the ride, took the 12.7mm guns of the G50. Still no fires. However the nose guns allow for much more accurate hitting in one spot and if you concentrate your fire into one wing it goes down quick and easy:
Attachment 9670
In the second G50 attack I needed 41hit in left wing, down she went.

Changed the ride again and took a 110. First used MG and cannon, and finally got my fire, center fuselage:
Attachment 9669

So decided to use cannon only, got my fire again, outer wing this time, but needed 25 hits:
Attachment 9671

Will do more 20mm tests to check how many hits needed.
Overall it seems that only 20mm can set the thing on fire and that might be the difference with the MG's.
I will test as well the G50 in more flights against the He111 as it easily sets other bombers on fire.
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