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- Technical threads (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=191)

- - Target visibility (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=27410)

Sadly...with the differences in screen resolutions and pixel density from one monitor to the next. I'm not really sure that there is a universal solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton45 (Post 354883)

Sadly...with the differences in screen resolutions and pixel density from one monitor to the next. I'm not really sure that there is a universal solution.

IMHO the "technique" I proposed earlier would be a solution for this particular problem. Doesn't solve the difference between RL and in-game detection range though....

Interesting thread - relevant and great work.

Whatever would come of this - visibility option should ultimately be scalable, for adjustable gameplay.

I remain a bit sceptical regarding the true fidelity possible. It seems that your nailing the size vs aspect vs distance - and will achieve something to that end.

Where I'm concerned is the inclusion of high fidelity specular (glint) effects, properly represented. Significant impact to the detecting aircraft when located is upsun in the early morning and late evening. While small-area scale games like BF3 are making efforts in this area - how do you imagine this will work over a large area, like our CoD maps? The BF3 mechanics aren't even tied to time-of-day and atmospherics as these are static on each of the tiny maps.

Canopy and metallic glint can be seen a very long way off. While there are accounts and studies of minimum detectable range - what of long range detections, made at altititude? How do you propose to simulate this?

Imagine when bare metal skinned aircraft are introduced?

Maybe someday, very high level systems may be able to render these necessary effects - but low level systems might not. I'll even go out on a limb and say that probably no current computational system can do justice to this type of ray-tracing physics, in real-time - to match the level of LOD detail you are discussing. If there is not a balance between the effects - then there will be less reality - not more.

That's my concern - but please don't let that dampen your work. Again, great job, knoble pursuit.

S!

Gunny

Quote:

Originally Posted by topgum (Post 354860)

Hi Manu and all the other mates,
I am realy thankfull for this thread and I apprichiate a lot all your comparing screenshots, us-navy graphs and your further to the sim related calculations, as I am thinking about this subject since a while. When I went out for a walk 2 weeks ago in good visibelity conditions (not optimal), the sky was crowded by a lot of low flying a/c (400m; pov 200m). First, I detected AND identified a pair of paragliders in a distance of 7km at their usual starting place. They have a similar wingspan like a 109 & spit, 10-13m. I can tell you exactly because I took notice of my pov and, back at home, I had a look in the wanders-map. So did I, when suddenly a squadron of Canadairs CL-145 Fire-engines came allong to get water: They apeared behind a mountin in 6 km distance (half front/half side). It would be easy to distinguish them from DC-3 (both wingsp 29m) at that distance. Not enough, I spotted an Ultralight in 750m and discern all important details. At that distance you will recognize a marking, while in the sim at 300m the marking of the 109 is just a dot! I draw a map with all observations, and - sigh- there's big difference to RL (and I need glases) and the sim, independend if I run it on 1920x1080 on 15"screen or on 1024x768 res, projected by my video projector, in front of me. I get use to fly without Objectsymbols and found out, that the size of the screen does matter, but a Dot is dot or not:-(
Otherwise, if you run a mission with 40ish a/c, better you red a book than your display, simply to much text, which you can't reduce like IL2 1946, this would be the easiest way to fix it. Personaly, I could live with an (sub)option where you can decide from which distance a (text)info appears and when it disapears again. To make it multiplayer-playable by using Object symbol setting on/off:
when "on", 4 sub-settings available:
"allways on", like it is now
"easy": appearance 300m to 10 km
"normal": 1km to 6 km and
"hard": 2km to 5km
Further in-gameoption: the option just to select a SYMBOL of the marking (like Ironcross or cocarde) instead of the whole book (like this post;-),
that does it for me for instances.
What do you think?

My concern, apart from the immersion-breaking effect of icons, is that stealth approaches and surprise attacks would not be possible.

Yesterday I flew for 2hrs 5min (the time before CTD due to the usual memory leak bug) on the ATAG server.

My whole flying was devoted into intercepting incoming bomber formations.

I did not intercept a single formation for two hours.

The worst moment was watching a Wellingtoin (BIG bomber) formation of nine planes flying above me (distance xxxx - how can I judge in this game... ;) ), following from behind while climbing in order to reach their altitude. Then, I moved my eyes away from the sky while checking my fuel gauges/ switching among fuel tanks ... and I completely lost sight of the bomber formation (9 big bombers)!

Then flew for 30mins circling around trying to find them again, without success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course I may be a noob and ignorant* but based on my 7+ years IL2FB in full real online flying, this is complete and utter XXXXX³\#~ **

I like that it is more difficult to trace airplanes, but this is not realistic.

~S~

*always debatable... :D

** Moderators, please add the word of your choice, suitable to a 2-3 week ban... :D

As I'm not convinced about the icons, so I thought about a more historical and immersive approach.

IMO Luthier should perfection the radio vectoring to the targets, as it was in reality (both sides, actually Brits achieved it few months before Germans). For instance:

The sector control center gives the usual alarm:

1 - Incoming fighters in M14, 3500 m, hdg 160
2 – Incoming bombers in K17, 4000 m, hdg 180

The player can either select a target, lets say by a keyboard combination as Ctrl + 1, or the sector control center assigns him a target depending on his position.

The sector control center takes then care of vectoring him to the target with more precise and frequent directions, such as:

<Leader, Hornchurch calling, 12+ dorniers coming in over Folkestone, vector 120, angels 25, 12 miles from your position>

I believe that this is what we expected originally from BoB: SoW, and this alone can solve the enemy spotting and avoid the hatred icons. Of course dots and LOD's must be improved as well.

http://www.battleofbritainbeacon.org...nisationLG.jpg

http://www.pastscape.org.uk/NewsImag...sImage23_6.jpg

BoBII was nicely immersive in reproducing what you (Insuber) suggest, it was nice to pick your preferred mission among the several tasked by Ops center. The phone ringing and announcing the incoming raids was amazing too! my thought is Clod, sadly, maintains the monolithic appearance of Il2 series.

i really can't stay with the 'icons solution'.
It would kill immersion while flying.

The dots over LOD at the point where they now disappear would be ok, not perfect as in RL, but this is imo the best solution, unitl devs can't find something more realistic at least.

This, added to Insuber radar vectoring stuff, would be great.

S!

Interesting thread.

TopGum said it all for me.

I am re-posting a doc abt Pilot detection range that I think belong to this thread.

IMHO plane glowing had been completely put aside in the game and shld play a huge part in visual acquisition (SoW and RoF had this feature correctly modeled) .

For example, all camo blend totally with the backgrd what is not achievable at close range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomcatViP (Post 354996)

Tomcat, your diagram looks nice, but it appears as the detection range against the sun. In today's CloD this range is N/A because you are completely blinded by the sun glare.