S!

Well summed up Blackdog. People rave about FPS shooter benchmarks, snip parts suitable for them and tout either brand being superior to another. Which is pretty useless.

Going to the bang for the buck thing. Take AMD 6950HD x 2, cost less than a 580GTX and kicks the living crap out of it in performance. Even 580GTX in SLI is only marginally faster than 6950HD in XFire. The 6970HD is equal or even faster due the much improved scaling AMD has managed to achieve. Even so with 6970HD you save almost 300USD compared to 580GTX SLI..with that money you can get a SSD disc to boost loading times and/or more RAM ;)

It is all about what you want to invest. Let's take an example. I have now an AMD Phenom II X6 1090T BE which loses to the Intel 980X in raw performance. But when looking at what I get for the money AMD wins. Here the AMD costs ~230€ vs. ~930€ of the Intel 980X. So a whopping 700€ difference there.

Motherboards for both are roughly the same price (X58 and 890FX) so not much difference. Intel uses triple channel so need 3 x RAM sticks where AMD with it's dual channel takes 2x. A small saving there too, yet insignificant IMO.

Now take the 580GTX which here is ~500€ vs. AMD 6970HD at ~390€. I save 110€ on the spot. So far I have spent 810€ less on the AMD than an Intel rig with nVidia. For the 6970HD my 650W Corsair PSU is enough, for the 580GTX safer bet is 700W+, again some tens, even over 100€ depending on PSU, more if need to upgrade.

So let's do some calculations and conclusions. I buy Intel 980X for 930€ + 580GTX for 500€ totalling 1430€. Mobo/RAM are not an issue, quite same prices. Now I buy AMD X6 1090T for 230€ + 6970HD for 390€ totalling 620€. The difference is 810€! With that I can add another 6970HD, a better PSU for XFire, a SSD drive and STILL costing LESS than the Intel/nVidia rig..and being comparable or even faster performance wise.

Bear in mind that if you go SLI on 580GTX the gap widens even more as you need a 1000W+ PSU to run it, those cost over 200€ here. And still the AMD rig is very close in performance and both an overkill to ANY game around at this point.

My point? Really what Blackdog said, the biggest and baddest stuff are used by a far less amount of players than the mainstream products, yet these being capable of running any game with good performance. Therefore claiming one brand is better than another is quite narrow minded. Boils down what you get for the money invested, not all have this "daddy pays" or born with a "golden spoon in mouth" ;)

SoW will be a stress test for the systems we have, but yet it seems it needs more RAM(texture loading etc.), a good CPU(physics, DM/FM etc.) and less GPU(no tessellation or PhysX there). The top end GPU would be needed at high resolutions with lot of FSAA/AF used IMO.

Looking that AMD or nVidia/Intel is the only way to play a game is stupid. Use what you want, whatever floats your boat. There is no need being a fanboy of either brand, both do their job in any game today.

Have a nice weekend.

Well I have to make a decision today as my new PC is built, awaiting my GPU decision. I've spent the past three days poring over the reviews. I have been steered by the written reviews but this link shows graphically what many are saying.
http://www.pcinlife.com/article_phot...game/total.png
Call of Duty is interesting because I believe it is OpenGL which is IL-2 country but these cards should spank IL-2 anyway. The Directx/3D table at the bottom looks at Directx/3D.

All the reviews are pointing to a couple of general conclusions.

General: the 6970 targets the 570GTX, the 6950 pitches in between the 480GTX and the 570GTX. (btw, the 6970 does not target the 580GTX. That is 5970 and 6990 territory.)

Performance: Below 1900 resolution the 570GTX has the edge on the 6970. However, if Tesselation is in use the 6970 wins (but SoW won't have Tesselation). At 1900 its a bit of a toss-up. Above 1900 the 6970 takes over.

Power and Heat: The 570 edges the 6970 out by something like 30w and 10 degrees under load. One review stated that two 6970s in Crossfire might lead to heat problems if they are very close, depending on the motherboard/ventilation.

Price: Not much between the 570 and the 6970 depending on which supplier/badge you pick.


My position is: 1680x1050 resolution and not likely to change in the next 2-3 years); New PC is overclocked from 3GHz to 4.2GHz so heat is a point to watch; My budget is £300, squeeezable to £350 in a very cause cause.

I am not a fanboy. I was very happy with my ATI 9600GT and have been very happy with my NV 7800GTs. As much as I wanted to believe the hype and buy a shiny new 570GTX-killing 6970, for me it looks like the 570GTX. My only thought is that a few reviewers feel that driver improvements might increase the 6970 performance. I wonder.......

Got to make my mind up in the next few hours and make the phone call....... :(

Feels abit "unfair" for us "outsiders" comming in at this late stage trying to sway u one way or the other. :)

I can only go with what i personally would have choosen and imo u cant go wrong with Evga 570. (remember, drivers for 5xx series is very new to)

Reasently got myselfe a Evga 470 and are extremly happy with it, way cooler than i expected, no noise when surfing (ALL cards are noisy in load) , very good service from Evga (step up program etc). Overclocks like a motherf**er to doesnt hurt either:)

In the next few months i will proppably use the step up program to get a Gtx570 instead, no hazzel trying to sell of my used 470, just swap and pay the differance and viola:)

S!

Klem would not go wrong with either card IMO. If he plays titles with PhysX then he should go for nVidia. Otherwise tough cal.

I have played physx games with my 5970 such as mafia 2, the effects where amazing.

S!

Mere gimmicks to me. I will look into it when EVE Online will get the new physics system that possibly uses PhysX or something..but not in a couple of years. For me the game and the plot, how it is done is more important than see a flag waving or some pieces of rock fly around and bounce like they are weightless as usually the ground in games is solid and does not give in as IRL.

And you can use AMD + PhysX..just have to use drivers that have been "enhanced" to bypass the nVidia's code. ;)

I´ll probably go for the GTX 580 or the upcoming GTX 590 IF the SOW reviews point to more GPU horsepower.
It´s important to put some money in a really fast CPU too.

When figuring in the cost of a card vs. another card and then adding to the SLI/Crossfire you should take into account the increased power consumption. GPU's these days are not like the Voodoo3's and 64mb Geforce 4's of late 90's early 00's. They are big, and they eat a lot of electricity. Might not be a factor for people who have an apartment or are living at their parent's house, but that adds up over the year, especially if you're one of those gamers who spends a few hours a night gaming and not just having your cards sitting idle while surfing the net.

I'd love to see some kWh usage per month/year for some of those cards. Given the heat they produce they might rival your average TV or small appliance.

Well the deed is done. I have gone for the EVGA Superclocked 570GTX.

Power consumption of the 6970 and 570 at stock speeds is very similar although one report put the 6970 as the higher of the two on higher resolutions/game demands.

It was a fine-line decision. I first had to shake off the disappointment of the 6970 not being a 570 killer in order to give it a fair go. I almost did the sulky-kid thing :) Ultimately it came down to the points (for my needs) in my previous post. Add to that the fact that Oleg is developing SoW using Nvidia cards, which may have a sliver of an effect, and the EVGA stock 570GTX review I found that put it ahead of stock 570 cards without even o/clocking and I reckon that the Superclocked EVGA is the best choice for me.

Can't wait to get my hands on my little beauty :)

Scan.co.uk 3XS SLIK i7 X58 950 BlackOps Bundle, tailored, comprising:-
Asus Sabertooth motherboard, Intel X58 chipset, Socket 1366, PCI-E 2.0 , DDR3 1866MHz, USB3/SATA 6Gb/s, SATA RAID, ATX
Intel Core i7 950 Bloomfield 45nm, 3.06 GHz, QPI 4.8GT/s, 8MB Cache, 23x Ratio, 130W, Retail, o/c to 4.2GHz
Prolimatech Megahalems Rev B,Super 6 Heatpipe Tower Cooler (Fanless, cooled by case roof fan)
EVGA Superclocked 570GTX
128GB Crucial RealSSD C300, MLC-Flash, SATA3 6Gbps, 2.5" SSD, Read 355MB/s, Write 70MB/s
6GB (3x2GB) Corsair Dominator, DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600), CAS 8-8-8-24, DHX, XMP, New connector, 1.65V
Coolermaster HAF 912 Plus, Black, Mid Tower Case
750W Corsair HX Series Modular PSU
2 x 120mm Akasa Apache Ultra Silent Fan HDB Bearing PWM fan w/4 pin connector & Rubber Pins
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit, Operating System, Single, - OEM
Acronis True Image 2010 sofware
Built and Overclocked to 4.2GHz, Tested and Heat Soaked
1 year on site Warranty plus 1 year rtb

The error here is comparing ridiculously expensive i7 980X with and X6 1090T when even the i7 950 (the real competitor) beats it in the majority of tests. Even if the program (i. e. video, audio editing software) can use all 6 cores, it is highly unlikely that you will benefit from that, albeit marginally. Not today, not yet. Nowadays 4 cores are more than enough. But that isn't my point. What I am trying to say is that is isn't down to how many cores CPU has, but how many threads can it handle. And this is where has Intel has AMD beaten. In its raw power and performance.

Does this all mean that Intel is a better choice. No. AMD is better value for money, I do fully agree here.

Intel has currently 2 sockets out on the market - 1156 (soon to be replaced by 1155 - SandyBridge) and 1366 which is a high end model.

AM3 and 1156/1155 should compete with one another, 1366 is still in class of its own IMHO.

For example: while triple channel RAM isn't really an advantage speed wise, it is money wise when you have to choose between 6 or 8 GB or RAM. Placing 8 GB (4x2) will force you to run them in 2T mode. ;)


I fully agree with this.


The latest rivals are more or less equal if you look at power consumption. It is the heat where newest AMD series disappointed IMO. 6970 (Saphire which are known for their GPU coolers) gets almost as hot as GTX 480, and the fans are quite louder than the rest of the reviewed cards. Almost every review wrote a part about this or at least mentioned it.

As I said earlier the real gem here is 6950, which is by far the best option for Cross Fire. For the majority of us mortals that will use single GPU solutions - GTX 570 which is quiet and on average outperforms its main rival 6970 in 6 out of 11 tests, and this makes it (for me at least) the biggest value for money. GTX 580 and HD 5970 are in class of their own.

We should also note that it is surprising to see so many reviewers posting so variable results. Both Nvidia and AMD haven't optimized their drivers yet.