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-   -   Friday 2010-09-03 Dev. update and Discussions (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=16217)

Oldschool61 09-09-2010 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD_Titus (Post 179955)
all instruments are important.

thank you for clarifying my point skoshi, you have more patience than i!

not enough tbh.

The gauges you refer to are typically NOT critical.
Realistically online all you need are airspeed, vsi, manifold, fuel sometimes if you take a gas guzzler, compass, (might be 1 or 2 more cant think of them now) anything more is not really critical as triming can be done by eye/feel.

A toggle key could be added to show instrument panel as in Falcon 4. Which has a virtual pilot body in pit.

Chivas 09-09-2010 06:13 PM

No need for a virtual pilot to get in the way of the gauges. I can see my own legs and arms in my peripheral vision.

Skarphol 09-09-2010 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insuber (Post 179921)
Back to serious things: it's time that the adults of this forum take back the steering wheel from the children. :D :D

Questions raised on this thread that deserve some attention from OM:


1. blending of 3D objects into the landscape (namely trees)
2. size of country roads
3. hedges
4. railroad bridges / tunnels / trenches
......
1001. Size of pilot

You are free to fill in the empty places from 4 to 1000, of course.

Cheers!
Insuber

1002. Size of pilots HEAD

Skarphol

nearmiss 09-09-2010 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldschool61 (Post 179967)
The gauges you refer to are typically NOT critical.
Realistically online all you need are airspeed, vsi, manifold, fuel sometimes if you take a gas guzzler, compass, (might be 1 or 2 more cant think of them now) anything more is not really critical as triming can be done by eye/feel.

A toggle key could be added to show instrument panel as in Falcon 4. Which has a virtual pilot body in pit.

Sorry... don't agree at all.

You need the slip and ball to make sure your aircraft has best registration on targets. Many people ignore the slip and ball and screw around for a year or two wondering why they can't shoot straight. LOL

On several aircraft the slip and ball is lined up in line of site behind the joystick. That is a nuisance, but with a big old virtual fist wrapped around the stick (which means nothing) you can't see it at all.

d165w3ll 09-09-2010 07:45 PM

That looks like Saxmundham in Suffolk. Is it?

Blackdog_kt 09-09-2010 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldschool61 (Post 179967)
The gauges you refer to are typically NOT critical.
Realistically online all you need are airspeed, vsi, manifold, fuel sometimes if you take a gas guzzler, compass, (might be 1 or 2 more cant think of them now) anything more is not really critical as triming can be done by eye/feel.

A toggle key could be added to show instrument panel as in Falcon 4. Which has a virtual pilot body in pit.

That is half-way true for IL2. We don't know if it will be true for SoW, especially when all indications point to increased systems modelling at higher difficulty settings. You might need to manipulate fuel tank selectors in mid-flight, you might need to air-start a damaged engine that cut out during violent maneuvers, or got choked/starved due to incorrect fuel mixture, etc etc. Things like that require quite a few controls, which are not in direct visibility of the pilot most of the times. The reason? Well, they keep the instruments you mentioned in his immediate field of view because they are important. The other stuff gets tucked away on side consoles and in all sorts of weird places depending on aircraft. Most of the controls required to start a P-47 for example, are situated left of the pilot at about the height of his legs, so they would be obscured if a pilot was displayed in the first person cockpit view.

I have a TrackIR3 that helps quite a lot, but only a MS sidewinder precision pro 2 stick. It has a single throttle, twist rudder, a hat switch and 8 buttons, that's all.

So, how am i going to start up my engine and manage non-critical but nevertheless important systems of my aircraft in a full difficulty SoW server, when all i have is 8 joystick buttons and a keyboard? By clicking things with the mouse of course. As you can see, non-critical controls means controls that are not used in combat or emergencies. They are still pretty much a necessity for starting and completing the mission though, things like starter, battery switch, fuel tank selector valve etc. I don't mind seeing a pilot in the cockpit, but if i can't click on what i need to click i want a way to turn him off instantly. Maybe a toggle key can be added to turn off the pilot, if it is in fact decided to display him.

As i like to say, i don't want to force my opinion of how the game should be on other people, but i also dislike having the same done to me (not accusing you of such by the way). So, when in doubt, the best thing is to use toggles and option menu parameters and keep everyone happy ;)

AdMan 09-09-2010 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insuber (Post 179921)
Back to serious things: it's time that the adults of this forum take back the steering wheel from the children. :D :D

Questions raised on this thread that deserve some attention from OM:


1. blending of 3D objects into the landscape (namely trees)
2. size of country roads
3. hedges
4. railroad bridges / tunnels / trenches
......
1001. Size of pilot

You are free to fill in the empty places from 4 to 1000, of course.

Cheers!
Insuber

I'd say the scale of the pilot is pretty important, your concerned with the size of roads but not the size of the pilots?

I appreciate the attempt to belittle other posters tho

Oldschool61 09-09-2010 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt (Post 179987)
That is half-way true for IL2. We don't know if it will be true for SoW, especially when all indications point to increased systems modelling at higher difficulty settings. You might need to manipulate fuel tank selectors in mid-flight, you might need to air-start a damaged engine that cut out during violent maneuvers, or got choked/starved due to incorrect fuel mixture, etc etc. Things like that require quite a few controls, which are not in direct visibility of the pilot most of the times. The reason? Well, they keep the instruments you mentioned in his immediate field of view because they are important. The other stuff gets tucked away on side consoles and in all sorts of weird places depending on aircraft. Most of the controls required to start a P-47 for example, are situated left of the pilot at about the height of his legs, so they would be obscured if a pilot was displayed in the first person cockpit view.

I have a TrackIR3 that helps quite a lot, but only a MS sidewinder precision pro 2 stick. It has a single throttle, twist rudder, a hat switch and 8 buttons, that's all.

So, how am i going to start up my engine and manage non-critical but nevertheless important systems of my aircraft in a full difficulty SoW server, when all i have is 8 joystick buttons and a keyboard? By clicking things with the mouse of course. As you can see, non-critical controls means controls that are not used in combat or emergencies. They are still pretty much a necessity for starting and completing the mission though, things like starter, battery switch, fuel tank selector valve etc. I don't mind seeing a pilot in the cockpit, but if i can't click on what i need to click i want a way to turn him off instantly. Maybe a toggle key can be added to turn off the pilot, if it is in fact decided to display him.

As i like to say, i don't want to force my opinion of how the game should be on other people, but i also dislike having the same done to me (not accusing you of such by the way). So, when in doubt, the best thing is to use toggles and option menu parameters and keep everyone happy ;)


How you going to start your engine...E is usually the defualt key. No need for gauge, all functions mapped to keystrokes.

Blackdog_kt 09-09-2010 10:08 PM

That's why i said it might work for IL2 but it might not for SoW.

A single command engine start works in IL2. You seem to think that this will be possible in SoW as well and it will most probably, but only on lower difficulty settings.

According to the interview of the development team posted on the forums of the check-six simulation community, in higher difficulty settings this doesn't work for SoW because there's a detailed start-up sequence. Just like the ones used in Black Shark and FSX, but with fewer things to do because WW2 aircraft are not so complex.

So to put it in simple terms, if i had a virtual pilot modelled in the cockpit at all times, i might be forced to fly certain aircraft at reduced difficulty settings because i wouldn't be able to see and click some of the switches needed for the higher difficulty settings.

WW2 aircraft are not as complex as modern ones, but you still need to flick anywhere between 5 and 20 switches to turn the engines on, depending on airframe. There's simply not enough buttons to map everything if all you have is a Sidewinder joystick and a keyboard.

I prefer using a hybrid control scheme, with flight controls, flaps, gear, guns and engine controls mapped to joystick and keyboard, leaving all the other stuff to be operated by the mouse. I think it's easier than having to map and remember that ctrl+shift+F turns the fuel selector valve counter-clockwise and ctrl+alt+F turns it clockwise.

As i said before, i have no problems with a pilot being modelled in the cockpit, as long as i can turn him off whenever i want to. You can keep him on at all times and map everything to your HOTAS set, i can keep him off most of the time and use the clickable cockpit interface, we both get what we want and that's pretty much it ;)

Insuber 09-09-2010 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdMan (Post 179990)
I'd say the scale of the pilot is pretty important, your concerned with the size of roads but not the size of the pilots?

You got it right mate. Pilots' size is easily adjustable = it is a false problem. On the contrary, landscapes need a long work: if you ain't it right in the beginning it's more difficult to correct things. Moreover, when I fly I see the landscape all time long, while I hardly see any pilot at all in game. But maybe it's just me ... :D

Cheers,
Insuber


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