Thanks luther.

I personally think alot of CLODs problems could be solved by the community, we are here because we love the flight sim, we want it to be as good as it can be, we're not here to rip-off anyone. So look seriously into allowing modding and possibly releasing souce code.

You say the AI does more than stable flight and barrel rolls into the ground, i can't get anything else out of a defiant. in fact i suspect there is no defiant AI code other than that for other fighters.

I also suspect many users have their own favorite planes they'd like added to CLOD, even at their own expense / effort. Allowing this will be bonus for CLOD and cost you nothing! must be considered.

Thanks

.

It is not because of "WPF.Unavailable" error as reported 12 months ago:

1. http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1713252

2. http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1713747

3. and possible solution http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1714240

I have a quick question, Luither said and I beleive tongue in cheek" there are 50 individuals working on BOM". Whatever the real number is how can they pay their employee's with no revenue stream. I know they have not offically announced a sequel however, it will take some time to bring BOM to market. What investor would finance the sequel based on the performance/sales of Clod ?

The important thing, I would think, is the man hours needed to get the sequel out. 50 people would get the job done in a fifth of the time as 10 for the same labour cost. The company and other investors must have done the sums and calculated the total cost of the sequel against the likely sales. Obviously there is a point where the likely income moves too close to the costs and a decision has to be made as to whether further outlay can be justified. This is clearly the situation with CloD.

Don't forget, once the engine is done then adding maps and planes and objects to it is a more straight forward and predictable exercise than has been the case to date and a more attractive proposition for investors to take a risk on.

The market exists - as Il2 and it's many iterations showed. It is said that it sold 5-7 million copies. And the CloD team has hopefully learned a lot from past mishaps.

Cheers!

hmmmm.
there are so many brilliant and talented and dedicated minds here as i have always stated.
I wonder what would happen if Luthier employed some of you guys that actually love this series(and play it)
There are ideas already going around on how and what to do if given the chance.I salute you all.

@ Luthier if you ever read this:
you have minds and talent here ready and willing to do the task at hand.and for free it seems.My advice is to grasp this situation right in front of you and give these gentlemen the chance and oportunity to do what they love.There is true talent here and it would be a waist to not take that chance.
Who knows what this could lead to in future development.There are still good men in this world so dont be afraid to have a little trust.you need help....these men love this series for ALL the right reasons.

Do it.take your pick of the community and give them the tools they need to help.thats all it takes.

so far for theory.

The performance/sales of COD were certainly not good, and doubtfully covered the costs of the development so far. This is a long term investment that makes money from sales of a number of Theaters using the same game engine. If the devs get the game engine and features sorted before the release of the Sequel, everything should work out. Then its just a matter of pumping out new maps, aircraft, and campaigns, with a few new features thrown in. The game engine was originally designed for more than one type of revenue stream, and the annoucement should make it clearer which direction or directions they are going with the development. The series including the COD map and missions should only get better as features are fixed and added, community mods are built, and average computers become more powerful.

The devs planned from the beginning of the new series to provide tools to the community. Unfortunately you can't document and make tools for a game engine that hasn't been completed yet. That said the game engine should be far more refined by the Sequels release. They are planning to release the map SDK tool with the Sequel and probably other tools as time and resources allow during the series.

Sounds good on paper but doesn't necessarily work in real life

It reminds me of the old joke about 9 women doing a baby in one month ... :-)

Keep in mind that for Clod the game engine was being created for the series. BOM development will be more of a content, rather than game engine...I think everyone in the development side, know that it was Steam to blame for much of the problems. Now who should we thank for giving us Steam.

The Russian Sequel would be mostly content if the game engine and features were working and completed, but that still isn't the case. They still have alot of work to do on the game engine and features before the release. I'm not sure why you would say that Steam is to blame for anything. I believe it was Ubisoft who wouldn't release COD in the west unless there was something done with the epilepsy filter. The devs have to take the blame for taking so long to finish the game engine and features.

I play almost exclusively off line and the game engine and the game features, or rather the lack there of, need a tremendous amount of work yet.

I agree. Unfortunately the recent Q&A from luthier seems to suggest that there is very low priority on that, and a sort of willful ignorance about what makes for a next gen single player experience.

I get the sense that Clod was designed from the outset for on-line use. Relying on the good grace of the community members to provide the off line content.

The plan from the beginning of SOW, was that the community would be far more involved with this series than they were in the first. The development would make the necessary game engine with FMB, scripts, and Triggers, that would provide and excellent base for those with more knowledge on the subject of missions could add to the sim. This hasn't happened enough yet because the game was released unfinished, largely unplayable, and long before the tools were even close to being ready. I'm quite sure we have more people in the west interested in making missions for the Battle of Britain,etc while the developers have people with more expertise and passion for the history of the Eastern Front. People raved about the work of the modders in the original series, but they couldn't have done squat without the developers game engine. Modders don't have the time or money to build a game engine, we need people with the tenacity of an Oleg who didn't like what WW2 aircombat developers of his time were doing, and did something about it.

I can't remember did Oleg give the code over to the modders, or did they just crack it and after fighting a long while and banning anyone who even wrote the word 'mod' Oleg gave up trying to stop them? Maybe we need people with the tenacity of those original modders!

The biggest irritant, is the fact that alot of us wanted a "BOB" map and aircraft in IL2:FB. We were told that we'd never see it because of the new version of IL2, and the fact that it would be centered around BOB. So this was fine, and we waited...

Now, over 10 years later, we hear that Clod will have no more BOB content added, and that we're back off to Russia.

That, and the "ghost" trees, suck big time.

You know aswell as I do the devs never planned to have the original series open to modders, but that changed for the new series. I haven't seen any new game engines being built by the original modders, and you probably never will. Its funny you talk to modders and they have a healthy respect and appreciation for the work the developers have done, that made it possible for them to add to it and refine it.

You did get a BOB map in IL-2, built by the community. It is unfortunate that the COD was released unfinished and the development eventually had to move on to stay in business, but that certainly doesn't mean there will be no further content for the channel map.

The standalone COD is probably dead, but the channel map, content, features, and aircraft will improve continually over the life of the series. The devs and possibly third parties will be building aircraft for the Sequels that can be used historically on the Channel Map. The community will use the map SDK, supposedly being released with the Sequel to improve the channel map. The community will use the improved AI, AI Commands, FMB introduced in the Sequel to make much better missions and Campaigns for the Channel Map.

Not to mention computer improvements and sim optimizations that will allow far more aircraft in the air with decent frame rates. That said my current system allows enough aircraft in the air to simulate most possible BOB missions. The current missions and campaigns built by the developer had to be dumbed down for use on average computers, not to mention the poor state of the game engine when these missions were built a few years ago.

The ghost trees do suck big time, hopefully the devs will eventually be able to further mod the Speedtrees to accept a damage model with decent frame rates on their huge map. Or get rid of Speedtrees all together.

Hehehe before it use to be ghost planes. Now its ghost trees. Hehe

well about the trees it would be possible to put poles scatterd best at random at an interval that does not affect frame rates to much so to discourage flying through them.
the effect being somwhat of a minefield and not historical correct but neverthe less hiding in the trees would become highly dangerous.
for now maybe a solution.

Wait a second...I think if you look off shore from Dunkirk about 25 miles I found the SS minnow floating around.

The S. S. Minnow is a fictional charter boat
what I dont get, but Im Dutch so should be forgiven, how it relates to the post(s) above.

Its in the game. I've seen it. Trust me. Its there.

I'm always looking for something out of the ordinary to show up. Do you remember the discussion with luthier about having a few surprises. I would not be surprised if they are tied to hours flown, or something like that.

You evil man now there is someone searching the sea off dunkirk for the ss minnow...

I hope Mary-Ann and Ginger are still onboard.

I would not be too suprised!!

In that this would not be the first flight sim to simulate the SS minnow!

microprose pacific air war 1942 (PAW) had an 'extra' island out in the pacific map.. And if you flew close to it.. You would start reciving radio message (text) from the 'folks' living on that island! Get closer and you could see the ship and people sitting on the beach

It was a great sim.. One of if not the first PC game to impliment a true 6DOF flight model.. Though it was fixxed point math and not floating point.. It was still far better than the other sims at that time (AOTP, AOE, RB, CYAR, SWOTL, etc).. It was also the sim that lead the way to microprose european air war (EAW)

Ahhhh EAW, my first true love. would you believe i left her for CFS3 (yes, I am ashamed but I did love that mosqito) but she took me back. I had another affair with B17 the mighty 8th but EAW still had my heart. then IL2 came along (aces expansion, not the first one) and I left EAW forever. I still see her around, she's holding her age pretty well, but it's not the same anymore.

http://www.cebudanderson.com/images/eaw01.jpghttp://www.oocities.org/willhunter42...RXXUpdate2.jpghttp://knoji.com/images/user/123%28648%29.jpg

Anyone remember the Easter eggs in Fleet Defender? The F-14 simulation from Microprose. If you fly to far to one side of the map there was a flying Dragon. There was also a mission where they scrambled you to VID a bogey that turned out to be a flying disk UFO.

There goes the thread :(

EAW was awesome, and ran like a champ

Windows 8 COD start fix please
 

Sorry to change the subject on EAW but could one of the developers please give some feedback on the Windows 8 issue with IL2 COD not being able to start? Can we hope for a fix?

Obviously, I am not one of the Devs but I can tell you straight that no Windows 8 fix is coming from them. They don't go on this forum anymore and have finished all work on CloD. You never know, mind.... some modder may figure something out at some point in the future. :)

I have no idea if they will make COD work with Windows 8. If its an easy fix I don't see why they wouldn't send a patch to Steam, although it wouldn't be a major issue for the developers because the sim wasn't designed with Windows 8 in mind. That said I don't doubt that Windows 8 will be a spec, considering the number of people who will buy Windows 8 systems, by the time a Sequel is released. The Channel Map will be included with the Sequel if there is a Sequel. I'm not sold on Windows 8 yet.