clouds are a no go from the link above, i suspected this a few days ago when someone i was flying with went straight through the cloud for no reason, dismissed it though didnt even think he didnt see it. another doh! from devs.

engine limits atm are a pain in the arse. i cant wait for radar picking up raids of 100+ comming in with the fighter escort in a campaign. FM wont matter much in that chaos :grin:

Those will be the days! :-P

I had a long chat with Farber about our concerns which fell into two areas:

Aircraft Performance
Radar function

The Hurricane Mk I and Spitfire MkIa (100 octane) aircraft are seriously underperforming:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...35&postcount=1
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...84&postcount=1

I have asked if we can have 87 Octane Spitfires 1a for Hurricanes 100 octane and 87 octane Spitfire MkIIa for Spitfire MkIa 100 octane

Perhaps more important is our ability to interpret what is going on. Trying to lead a Squadron with navigation, formation control, lookout etc and then operating as a Radar Controller too is impossible to do properly. Its not even practical for a wingman. Also not being able to update the radar information for five minutes is unrealistic. I know that the data should be 4 minutes out of date and so has to be delayed to simulate that but Radar Controllers had that late information coming in continuously or could call for it any time. Then the Sector stations had to consider the whole picture and direct their forces as necessary.

What we lack is the opportunity to create and interpret the overall picture which was a vital and fundamental aspect of the success of the radar system and the Battle. It was a weapon in itself not just a handy addon. SLs are currently doing it in isolation and only when it is practical (I was only able to use the radar three times because so much else was going on). What we need are radar controllers, guys willing to sit in a cockpit on the ground where they can operate the radar commands, have time to read/capture and assess the text returns (which don't stay long), talk to eachother and direct Squads as necessary. That's not flying but its not as boring as some people might think. I'd be happy to do it but if we are allowed that we should be allowed extra non-flying personnel to do it to keep our flying numbers the same.

I have asked if we can have that.

I am really grateful for the guys putting this campaign together and in parts we have been able to enjoy it while some parts are frustrating for the above reasons. We don't expect to sweep through victorious skies just because we happen to know the RAF won (or didn't lose) the Battle, we know it was hard and frustrating but for the historical reasons. 56 will certainly continue to take part but I think a few changes need to be made for more realistic possibilities and for improved gameplay.

Right I only see two things worth addressing here:

1.RADAR

All of which can be found here:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=30979


OK, so we can see that with help from the community, especially Kodiak and Osprey that we did our best to make the most realistic radar system possible within limits.

I cant currently find the part where WE (the community) decided a 1 min delay for requesting needed to be added to a 4 min delay in the message - essentially making it a 5 min lock out! However, it was agreed the Squadron Leader should not be able to "spam" it.

With this consideration I see no reason why the request lock out should not be 1 min (the time it would proberbly take to get through and talk with control) and that the information delay should not be 4 min with the estimated course as per normal.

EDIT1: I will have to double check this is indeed the mechanics of the script and that this is possible but Im pretty sure this is how it works and is possible.

SO FOR EXAMPLE:
SL (SL means tail number 1 or "A") connects to a single radar station. Requests information. waits 1 min, requests again. waits 1 min, requests again. waits 1 min, requests again. waits 1 min, requests again. Now he recieves the Estimated Plotted course from the position that is 4 mins old and gets a new Estimated Plotted course that is four mins old every min for the next 3 mins or as long as he kept requesting.

HOWEVER this does have certain draw backs. using this method the report will not track the same contact only reveal the closet applicable target. So you might find you are on wild goose chase as two targets are kneck and kneck in range but in two totally different sides of the radar. Just a thought ;)


AIRCRAFT:

I dont think anyone would mind if the Spit IIa was used instead of the Spit Ia, we used it before and no one complained, however if anyone seriously does mind can they please speak up. This would also mean ground starts for the Spits.

Spitfire Ia substitution for any Hurricane is NOT going to happen. This is a historical campaign and we dont want to make it "fair" we want to make it accurate. You cant have the BoB without the Hurricane! You may however have the 87 or 100 Octane - Red teams choice.

Please also see the OP in this thread and here:

http://sowc.forumotion.co.uk/t8-how-...ill-be-run-bob

S!

Ok official mode off:

MY OPPINION:

Im not going to tell the red team what to do but I would consider the overall team tactics you are using (which you are doing by considering having "ground control") and especially the altitude you guys fly at but what do I know?!

sounds good. think this would encourage (as a must) for the spits to fly in regular contacts with hurri squads to get the to the bombers and protecting them against 109's. Did this really happen? spits taking on 109's tieing them up so the hurri's can attack the bombers? i seen it on a few programs but never actually read it in mission reports posted on this website. :confused:

i posted a link on SOW forums with info for radar. it says its range was 200 miles. if this is so we should see a build up of aircraft and where the would roughly be coming from but not where they would be going to until it had gone through the radar station to HQ etc.

i can imagin it hard for someone to fly and do this, as they had personnel full time all over the place relaying this info then HQ to tell all the SL where to go, not give them the info and leave it up to them where they go and have a discussion about it as well, wasting time.

maybe a commander (also on the ground) who is given this info (from players at each radar getting the info as per post above) then they make the call who goes where, kinda like the real radar process. no doodling about while they dropping bombs on us. :cool:

The plan was have Spitfires attack fighters and hurricanes attack bombers, I think this refers to september more though.

However I really think it came down to what you found first. If you were bounced or could bounce... I think allot of it came down to circumstance.

HMM 16500 to 18000 what are you saying ? an that changes weekly . +1 on spit 2a. , an hurri needs to stay, as it is only ride for some squads ,. I think as a whole the Squads our flying better each week, while still working out a few kinks , Many squads , an players look foreward to this on sunday !! But there has to be fun to , Spit 2a needs to be kept in till fm fixed , The biggest problem with the campainge is not the campainge , But the game as we all struggle threw it, keep up the good work . BTW . It did seem that the numbers of e4s were a little out of whack this week ! cya sunday salute Dawg

Wierd, we didnt see you up there.

I knew the thing was comming about the E4's and it has already been told to me. So unless you know of any way to get round this predicament - please let me know:


Red:

August
Spitfire - 34% (15 )
Hurricane - 66% Unlimited


Blue:

August
E1 - 40% Unlimited
E3 - 8% (4 )
E4 - 52% (23 )


Now the numbers in brackets were based on a turn out of 45 players a side. (9 blue bombers to fly any bombers including 110's as they wished.) Now the average attendance seems to be somewhere around 40/50 of the top of my head for both teams.

The limited aircraft are limited by script and wont despawn. There fore if some one spawns 20 Bf109E4's, there gone. So we added 10% to all limits for this purpose.

So with all this in mind. Everyone on blue (less than 23) players could in effect take an E4. Same goes for red (almost).

On the blue side we have limited it our selves per squadron, like thus:

Mission 1 distibution:

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...C/mission1.jpg

This was based upon the numbers in each squadron and is what each Staffel should be trying to stick too! - OR THEY ARE VERY NAUGHTY! :mad: Bad Germans! NO!


What have the red team done in this regard? I understand you have a choice between two different aircrat whereas the Blue main fighter is the same with different armament so your system would not be so mixed.



I was reliable informed by the person from the red team who asked the same question that the red team was:

RED TEAM MEMBER: There were some compaints about the number of E-4s, did you keep the August Balance of E-1s/E-4s?

5./JG27Farber: also i suspect to many spitfires the thing is were also not flying at full stregth ie 50 players

RED TEAM MEMBER: true - we had

56 up to 8 Hurricanes
401 up to 6? Hurricanes
501 up to 6? Hurricanes
71 up to 6 Hurricanes (plus Spits below)

64 Sqdn up to 6 Spitfires (hopefully IIa's as the patched Ia is still naff)
71 up to 6 Spitfires ---- Ditto ----
41 up to 3 Spitfires

5./JG27Farber: so because the teams are not full this will happen

RED TEAM MEMBER: but not all seats got filled

5./JG27Farber: however aircraft are limited E4,E3 and spit are limited to the numbers shown in the set up of the campaign

RED TEAM MEMBER: Yes. We had 14 spits up and about 20 Hurricanes


This is roughly 41% Spitfires (34% allowed) and 59% Hurricanes (66% allowed). So all I can garentee is that there were no more than

Spitfire - 17*
E3 - 5*
E4 - 25*

*+10% was added for spawn deaths etc. (I think these are the correct numbers.)



So as you can see, its a two way street. However niether side should use this as an excuse to do what they want! ;)


If anyone can find a solution to this problem, I would love to hear it. Bear in mind - people want to know what they are flying before hand, not just turn up and grab what they can! :-P


Somethings are just beyond our control.

S!

No worries m8, But we were up there !! (thats a dot range thing) = game prob. At the right angle or distance , you can lose sight very fast , an still hear the mtrs noise with no vis on them ,Once again game prob, Also agree guys like to know what ride they have ;) Don't stress to much . It will all work out!! salute

Hey David, as a Hurricane pilot I'd like to say I am quite used to what we can do and what we can not do. There SHOULD be more Hurricanes than SPitfires. The way I see it this campaign is just starting and there are some teething problems. So far, it has not been a Battle of Britain at all, it was more like ATAG punchup minus the AI bombers. I don't know how many Stukas have attacked and how high they flew over the Channel as we were not involved in the defensive battle with the 87s, we have only seen a few 109, but it was alright for the 3rd mission only. I hope with the suggestions made there will be improvement (especially with the Radar). The other thing is that it's impossible to please everybody and I'd like to thank the creators for trying.

I strongly object against replacing Spitfire marks or Hurris for Spits - FMs are what they are, let's keep calm and carry on guys!

For myself personally I'd like to see more realistic (and usable) radar, some BofB raids with fighters in escort duties, more probable mix of Emil variants (e.g. more E-1s for this time of the year) and people flying with default (historical) loadouts.

Keep up the good work, see you next Sunday.

Can you make any suggestions as to how it could be more like BoB? We are always open to suggestions.

There were 24 Stuka in Total. Spread over 4 targets. They broke up on the approach toward folkstone, 6 for each airfield and 3 for each radar.


The most important thing for me and my small team is that people ARE enjoying it and I think you will enjoy it more as it goes on, especially with some of the raids we have picked. When people give us thanks it makes it worth all the hours in FMB and scripting, forum stuff and general tedium. So thanks for the thanks!

S!

S! mate. I am very much aware of that and it's really really appreciated. I can imagine how much effort it takes to keep things running etc. I am also aware that you can't please everyone and I am the last one to complain - as I said perhaps slightly bigger scale than last time, e.g. some medium bombers raids. (I take it it was just quieter day with fighters on Free Hunt and some Stukas the other day.) I know this is due to performance issues and there is no way around. We're at Mission 4 only and I just wait and enjoy. With few more missions, we'll know more and I will certainly give you some more specific feedback. So far just thanks for your work chaps, see you on Sunday ;)

Thanks for considering our requests Farber and giving us the SpitIIa. As far as a/c are concerned the real gripe was that they did not have a chance against 109s due to the FMs. The SpitIIa should help there and I accept what you say about the Hurricane. Its just that I was thinking in terms of relative a/c performance, the a/c being our tools, rather than what they looked like. OK so we stay with the Hurricane and a couple of us are testing the 87 octane version (I already did the 100) to see which would be better as the 100 octane is well below RL performance and does not have Boost Override Cutout working.

We are managing the a/c allocation numbers by assigning them to specific squads as you listed in a previous post. Generally it works out OK, we don't exceed the allocated numbers but the Spitfire %age was a little high on Sunday due to turnout. Its just that when we pulled up the on-screen stats it seemed the blues were flying almost entirely E4s. I am sure there were more than the 9 E4s listed in your a/c allocation table so perhaps you could look at logs etc to see and if so have a word with the unit commanders.

With 24 stukas breaking up into several groups plus Do17s and attacking 4 targets we have to accept that we cannot intercept every raid. With Hurricanes attacking bombers and Spitfires trying to cover them we would be limited to intercepting 3 raids. We could of course throw one squad at each raid we find and risk the 109s (if we can find all the raids) and that is what tended to happen on Sunday more by luck than judgement, there was no time for niceties like Spits coming to the help of Hurricanes when they were already engaged so after our a/c got engaged with 109s or Stukas and had used there ammo it was inevitable that 109s that had not been engaged would have ammo to slaughter the remaining red aircraft they found. We have the unfortunate problem of trying to deal with 24 Stukas plus ? Do17s that went to Gravesend plus up to 40 109s (probably around 30 on the night?). That's ok as the RAF were heavily outnumbered in the BoB but it does mean that our neutered Hurricanes are going to die wholesale once their ammo is gone and without a FM to give them a fighting chance.

One question regarding "being like the BoB". Would the 109s have stayed around to feed off the empty Hurris and Spits or would many of them have withdrawn to cover the retiring bombers? Also, how are you guys finding the fuel issue, as I alway understood the endurance of the 109 to be a little over an hour with about 20 minutes over England? I think we were in the air for over an hour and 109s were still over our coast knocking down our aircraft.

EDIT: I meant to say that you are destroying Radar easily but in fact it was very hard to destroy even when undefended. It was bady damaged on 12th August when the radar stations were a main priority but as they came back on air again on the 13th I understand that the major anti-radar operation of 12 August was not repeated. A few days later, Göring is said to have stated,
“It is doubtful whether there is any point in continuing the attacks on radar sites, in view of the fact that not one of those attacked has so far been put out of action.”
Any further radar attacks failed to make significant damage to the radar system. I wonder if your future radar attacks should be severely restricted or perhaps even stopped as in RL they were ineffective whilst in CoD they are too easy to destroy.

I will do the next time....ill definitely fly the E1 on sunday with a historical loadout...Pitti and me found a historical loadout, which is working surprisingly well!its really fun to fly the E1 now for me, so i have no problems to be one of the E1 pilots!

to Farber,...24Stukas? is it really that hard for the game/server to handle more of them?i ask because sometimes iam hosting a mission in the Lobby, where 60+ AI aircraft are in the air constantly.its a script, where submissions will load randomly into the main mission with AI flights.the script is written, that after a certain amount of planes has spawned, the submissions will stop to be loaded.when some aircrafts despawn after landing or get destroyed, and the total number of planes drop below the limit, then the submissions will start to get loaded again...this way, in the main mission there are 60+AI aircraft in the air constantly, and besides some stutters when another submission gets loaded, the game runs smooth...
and mind this was hosted from my weak machine...so i would think that a real server wouldnt have that much problems with 60 AI aircraft in the air??

The servers aren't the problem. Hosting on your own machine, I'm assuming from in-game/through the FMB, isn't comparable to running it through dserver. The netcode is the problem. You can fly around with 1000AI all by yourself without much of a hickup (if you have the machine for it) Add other players in the mix + AI = disaster in cliff's current state. Heck, players alone cause disaster to servers. Our server barely uses 7% of the cpu to run cliffs when it's full, let alone empty.

Until the game is fixed, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

yeah but i was playing the mission online with my squadmates!
though you are right, i noticed that the mission ran more fluid when i tested it on my own...when my mates joined, i had to reduce the number of AI flights to 60.

Define online? Were you running the game through the lobby or did you run it through the dserver/dos box? There's a huge difference.

Edit: And when I mean players - I mean at least 20+. You won't see network problems or the problems caused by net code until you have a bunch of people causing bandwidth flow - aka net code.

well read my post again

Klem, the table Farber posted showing ~10 E4's was from mission 1 based in July where E4's made up roughly 20% of Bf 109 strength. We just finished mission 3 in the August time frame where E4's account for 52% of aircraft strength. As Farber said the numbers were set for a full team but when everyone doesn't show of course the E4's are taken first. One remedy I would propose would be removal of the mine shell. IMO it is probably over-modeled compared to the other 20mm rounds available and causes Hurricanes to just fall apart. I think that would make red a little less concerned about the E4 numbers but I don't think it could be enforced server side, just a gentleman's agreement to remove it from our E4 loadouts. At the very least I think it's something we could try for at least one mission.

Regarding 109 tactics, the Jagdwaffe's mission was to destroy Fighter Command. As long as there are RAF fighters airborne and the Bf 109's have fuel/ammo to engage I think it's safe to assume they would. It was a tactic of the Germans to send in a low level sweep after a raid to try and catch planes being refueled/rearmed and there were some successes doing that. It might be worth considering holding back a few fighters to cover your force after they disengage from the bombers.

Fuel with the Bf 109 was really only a concern when they were going to areas around London and they had to fly close escort and spent hours zigzagging behind the slower cruising bombers. Also, remember Park did not like big wings. He preferred to throw his squadrons at the bombers piece meal which peeled off the escorts layer by layer like an onion. This meant the Bf 109's were almost constantly engaged over England which really drains the tanks quickly. Personally, last mission I took 100% fuel, climbed to 6k, cruised between Dover and Littlestone, and then engaged RAF over Hawkinge for maybe 20-30 minutes. I returned home with less than 25% remaining. As the fighting moves closer to London I think you'll see fuel become a bigger issue for the Bf 109's.

I said I wouldn't post but since it is campaign I will. I just wanted to make the point that although I helped with the radar, and Farber quotes correctly, I did protest about having it destroyed because that is just complete balls. It actually makes me reluctant to even use it because I know how easy it is to destroy, and to make matters worse I learn today that the mission sends 3 AI to each site to do the job - it's just not possible to stop it's destruction at all. To put it in perspective, ACG run the events of August 12th on our server which is all about the radar attacks, we scale it down to just 20% of the actual aircraft in the raids but there are still 9 Ju88's coming across to hit Ventnor alone. Germany brought it down for about 2 hours at great cost, and that was because a single bomb had hit one of the electrical supply thingies. 2 hours was because GB had mobile RDF trucks which could be moved to plug gaps. After the Ventnor attack Georing sent a Stuka raid into the Thames Estuary following reports from Erpo210 that they were successful, and that was massacred by No.501 from Gravesend. It is then that Georing started to rethink about tackling RDF. Since the radar was hit then on Sunday then 501 had no idea that Do-17's were inbound to Gravesend, which is a great shame because we were covering that area until vectored to the Stuka attack, and we arrived too late, only to meet 109's milling about, dominating of course, you'd have to be a bad flyer not to with these FM's.

Regarding the number of E4's and Spitfires. Do you have the actual figures Farber? Only I saw about 90% E4's - it's not as if they even need then given the advantage the 109 has atm.
I don't buy the 'availability' argument I'm afraid, squadrons should have a percentage or you tell squadrons what to take. It's poor form to just take it and say that so and so isn't here so I will take his better plane. The RAF work this out as a group and aim for a 2/3rds Hurricane split, we can't be entirely accurate because we aren't mixing types in a single flight though.

Also, you mentioned altitude, well Stuka's dive from 3km+ and that's not very high, they are our targets, and then they get low. I would recommend 4km+ level bombers coming in at a target in waves, we're all more likely to get a shot then, and we should be at a better operating alt (probably not though with this junk FM!).

Positively I enjoyed our flight out as a group and we learned some lessons from it as a group, it was interesting training. Haven't seen a single bomber yet though.

Gotcha ok! Yes It really is a shame we have to use these small formations. ;)

NP :-P

9 E4's is the table for July - Mission 1. Im not sure if the tables in the OP contain the +10% to account for spawn deaths etc. I will look into it though.

What Do17's? Not every raid was intercepted...

We (5./JG27) were flying 109's not Do17's. As far as I am aware we went deepest into enemy terrortry lloking for the spits, which we pressumed, would be getting altitude and comming back to the coast.

Yes they would have stayed around to "feed". It was not until toward the later part of August and into September that the fighters become true escorts. Before this time a Frei-Jagd screen was thrown up just as we are doing.

Thats a very cunning way of trying to find the date out Klem I'll give you that! :-P

I can tell you the dates and time of every mission after the campaign and you can confirm it. How is that?





About the number of aircraft, Bliss is Correct. Once you get 40 players + large AI formations are not an option unless you want to play the game by postcard.




No its not and I remeber at the time showing you sources to this effect. It was the towers that were hard to destroy! Generators, power lines, telephone lines etc were disabled and the CH stations where out at some points, it IS A FACT! They were quickly repared or mobile units where rushed in to "plug the gap". I will gladly present my sources at the end of the campaign.

I will repeat myself... No I have not looked at the actually figures, I am too busy responding to posts on 1c. I have already presented the reasons why. If you are not buying it thats convient because Im not selling it mate. As far as I am aware the squadrons on that list should not excede the values given on it and the whole team cannot excede the values in the script limiting aircraft.

As I said, if you can work it out where everyone knows what they are flying before hand and get the percentile mix right please do share. I can see you not happy but your not providing a solution.

Altitudes have taken from the history books of those specific raids. Dont blame me, blame the LW.

Great!

not quite true Farber..Pitti and me headed towards Littlestone, then further north, then we made a wide right turn until we were north west and north of Gravesend.there we shot down 4Hurris of No.501...so we went in quite deep as well:grin:...though it was a shame, that we didnt encounter any other contacts...only when we were already on our way home, we saw two spits above Dover, who eventually escaped in the end...

3 actually David, it's no wonder Georing thought he was winning ;) lol

Farber, please don't get the wrong idea about what I am saying. I gave a solution, that is one of honour, that your guys get together before the mission and decide who flies what, more or less. That's what we are doing in the RAF. What is happening from what you are saying is that you have a limit on E4's and that first in grabs one if they can? Why not start with the E-1's and as they run out grab E-4's since it is innocuous.......;) Another solution and one that is more historically accurate is that you tell each leader that they can have amongst their groups 50% E4s, 10% E3's and remainder E1's (or whatever percentage). They can then sort that out according to how many turn up. What's the use in posting those percentages if you aren't able to stick with them? All the same I'd like to see the raw numbers, COD is too rubbish to even allow viewing of a second stats page!

Regardless of whether RDF was taken out or not does not matter, the fact that it took a large raid to do it and they were unsuccessful most of the time doesn't mean that sending 3 stuka's to each and being successful is in any way a reflection on history. For instance, Ventnor required the entire group of KG76 and KG26 supported by ZG2, JG52, JG1 (top of my head, prolly got some squadrons wrong), the raid was 100+ just for one site. If you want to do that then fine, perhaps we can just change our tactics to have 1 squadron circling each RDF site (there are only 5) and we'll bag 15 no problem, which is better than what we've managed so far ;) OK, I'm far more of a cynic than klem, I know it'll rub you up the wrong way and I don't mean to do that, but essentially klem and I are saying the same thing about this :)

Upon Osprey's "request" here we go:

• The first number not in brackets is the number of players which took that aircraft on sunday.
  
• The second number in brackets is the total number of that type available based on a full team!
  
• The first percentile in brackets is the percentile of the force that showed up.
  
• The second percentile is the percentage of the composition of a full team!

RED TEAM 34 Players:

Hurricanes 23 out of 33* ( 68% out of 66% ) - unlimited type but added for completeness
Spitfires 11 out of 17* ( 32% out of 34% )

1% = 2.941

BLUE TEAM 23 Players:

Bf109 E1 4 out of 20* ( 17% out of 40% ) - unlimited type but added for completeness
Bf109 E3 1 out of 5* ( 4% out of 4% )
Bf109 E4 18 out of 25* ( 78% out of 52% )

1% = 4.348


*10% ( rounded up ) was added to the originally maximums for spawn deaths etc.


So as we can see at first glance:

WOW LOOK AT ALL THE E4's AND THERES TOO MANY HURRICANES! - but its fine! - because the system is based on a FULL TEAM of 45 players a side!

You will also see that all values of player flown aircraft (not in brackets) NEVER exceeded the mission total.

We are not trying to hit the percentile values exactly - its impossible! We are only trying to limit the maximum composition of a force of a full team.

Our system isnt based on the number of people that show up but of a full team on each side as this is the only realistic method we can enforce.



We would love to have the exact composition!

If you can devise a system that is better please let me know!


I really hope this makes sense because I really dont have time to explain it.

Not really, not like below!

I like it. You are asking people to do maths 5 mins before we start and in what way should they round - up or down? In fact I request if you want this system in use you provide a table of %'s for August and July for every number from 1 to 14 for easy refrence.

Above this post^
I did it quick might be off a bit but good enough.

Net code, cant have to many bombers or people complain like mission 2. Do you even read everything in this thread?

You love it. :-P

no Osprey 4 all in all, i shot down 3 of you, and Pitti got Teepee i think.

I cant wait for Osprey's aircraft distibution cards! :-P

1: Chill out
2: The maths is remedial. A ballpark figure would be fine, there's no need to be a tit about it, we just pointed out that most of your aircraft were E4's and you've confirmed that (18 out of 23).

The logic and rules are clear but doesn't hit reality remotely. It's fine, we're (RAF) only asking because it was obvious and that's really to be expected. It just means that next week we'll fill our Spitfire II allocation first before anybody jumps in a Hurricane :)

Why don't you guys like the E1 anyway? It's got 1 minute of guns to spend on easy Hurricanes and is camouflaged. I'd take it.

@David, don't spoil it mate, I had to tell AVM Keith Park that we were bounced by a squadron or he'd send us all off to an OTU ! ;)

1. Chilled :cool:

2. LOL

re·me·di·al/riˈmēdēəl/
Adjective:

Giving or intended as a remedy or cure.
Provided or intended for students who are experiencing learning difficulties.


Its not easy maths, Ive already tried it. Thats why we are using the system we are.

Lets look at the other system so we know how insane it would be.

August
E1 - 40%
E3 - 8%
E4 - 52%

Something like this:

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...rcraftdist.jpg


"Ahh well done Farber that is what we shall use then! You clever egg you you!" - I hear you think.

Wrong...

How many is in a Staffel?

Well on sunday from memory My Staffel had 8 (+1 Bf110 pilot which doesnt need to be included).

I./JG26 had 5 (I think).

For the sake of argument, lets say another group had 3 and another had four...

So lets total it up and see if it works.


E1 = 10
E3 = 3
E4 = 7

100% devided by 20 is 5.

5 times 10 is 50% of 40%
5 times 3 is 15% of 8%
5 times 7 is 35% of 52%


This is getting kind of interesting, let me try nd find out who actually flew on sunday in which squads.

OK heres the results:

I./JG26 had 5
JG26 had 2
5./JG27 had 8
SG1 had 6 flying fighters
JG52 had 2 (I think)

OK so:

E1 = 13
E3 = 1
E4 = 10

Therefore:

100% devided by 23 is 4.35.

13 times 4.35 is 56.55% of 40%
1 times 4.35 is 4.35% of 8%
10 times 4.35 is 43.5% of 52%


and then there is the small problem of the smaller Staffel getting no E4's etc... So you would have to have three different tables which rotated every week etc etc and in the end you just think wtf? Its a game...


Ok Im off to get some beers :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oENQ2jlHpfo

I know what remedial is otherwise I wouldn't have said it. Forget it, you're obviously not interested, just take E4's and 3,000m airstarts over our heads for all I care if it's too hard to work out a simple ball park percentage. We're trying to help ffs because you're just going have people quit if it gets anymore one sided.

Easy tiger.

I just wondered which remedial you ment, it made me laugh thats all.

Ive just worked it all out above. ;)

We used to call 'remedial' set kids 'chicken feeders' at our school, because they were too dumb to teach so were sent off to do farming stuff lol Oh joy....

Anyway, I see your edits, yes, a basic figure is better than just jumping in wholesale for the best types that's what I mean. LW squadrons had mixed types anyway according to Stienhilper, with the leaders taking the new planes. How you do this exactly is up to you but I would suggest a quick count of players, get a rough figure for E4's and tell each crew how many E-4's he can have. Then maybe give the couple of E3's to those crews with fewer E4's, and the rest have to take E-1's. The RAF wouldn't care if you were 1 or 2 over or under, it's just annoys us when we obviously see 90% of the best type which is BS. :p

We had those kids at our school and when we left and went to college they were doing animal handling and dog grooming. :-P

Your quite right about the mixed bag, except where units went to a new theatre, for example When 5./JG27 left the Ost Front to go to Afrika, in such cases the whole Staffel was fitted out.

Its certainly allot closer to what we have previously had. Ive also had another thought! The smaller squads can bunch together for "the count" to get different aircraft. - because the table isnt so hot.

Unless someone wants to adjust the table.

I honestly didnt think it was possible. :rolleyes:

OK we'll give it shot. ;) Obviously I cant control other people or Squadrons...


P.S. yes I am a stubborn begger.

EDIT1:

Hmmm how does this look? - a bit fairer on the smaller Staffel.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...craftdist2.jpg

Oh yes, but as long as players don't use M-Geschoss only that's alright. As for the E-4 numbers I didn't mean to complain, just noticed 'unusually high amounts'. E-1 with custom ammo belt is just as deadly so I don't mind at all. Just for historical reasons, but I see it's difficult to accomplish.

Very true.

3 Hurricanes lost in that part of the fight, Teepee escaped unharmed and got CTD later on.

Ive made a mistake on the table, percentile targets are wrong. Ill put up another table very soon. :mad:

E1 - 40%
E3 - 8%
E4 - 52%

Theres about 4 Bf109 E4 missing from the table...



With regards to ammunition, you cant police it.

Hi Farber

when will mission 4 brief be up?

Thanks

Just putting it up now. :-P

RAF COs please see my Mission 4 post at HQ on the Campaign Forum.

Rgr.

Rgr.

Sorry for the hitch, still didnt work as planned. :(

Had a spectacular fight with 71st AH though! I got bagged :-P

S!

EDIT: wow look at this:

http://70.176.212.41:8888/ClodStats/...60&playerid=41

so what was yesterday's problem???
pitti and me were above rochester and gravesend, spotted some bombers, and had a fight with hurris,...again 501s...i really wonder when we will see other raf pilots....
this time i shot down 4hurris, but again i got only the credit for one kill, where i killed the pilot and the plane crashed...the other 3kills, i didnt get credit for....though they all bailed out.
and then the most annoying thing, the mission was stopped suddenly, although many players wanted the mission to continue.....just when i was behind a spit over the channel, when we were on our way home already...again a pilot from ACG.

so all in all, so far i should have 7confirmed kills in the stats, but i have only one, and im not sure whats happening with this one, as you stopped the mission, and maybe delete the stats due to this....


(one really strange thing,.....before we started to fight the hurris, we already spotted them ~a minute before...but we couldnt identify them as hurris, as they had a really really strange shape,..just when we got into gunrange ~150meters behind them, we could identify them as hurricanes.i cannot describe the shape we saw, but it was indeed a myterious one, which i have never seen before in the game..)

Basically what happened was we used to load a map over the base map for air missions. A month or so be fore the campaign we decided to load air missions from inside the map as we thought it surely must have better performance. Also we noticed some odd things in the old system.

Rather than remake the missions all the information was copied over via the .txt files. This meant that we had in some instances where air missions where simply saved twice with different names and loaded over each other in the old system we had waypoints that you could not see as they were the exact same coordinates. It was this mission in particular that was effect by this. The triggers where all set before the campaign but whilst testing this mission at the beginning of the work I found the double way points hidden underneath.

So I reworked the waypoints and as allot of the flights regiment was identical which was sure to cause problems I changed the squadron names. (There were 6 flights in all, 3, 3, 6, 6, 3, 3, totalling 24 bombers... We had to scale this mission down allot and even cut bomb loads in half for playablity.) This ment they could not spawn... :rolleyes:


Sorry for brining down the first run a little earlier than we agreed. The server admin was operating the server from work and we had a little miscommunication.

Its been suggested we rerun it next week, I agree with that. Its actually quite a nice mission when the bombers actually spawn. :-P

Also it will give the spitfires some destraction so they are not nibbling on my bum... :-P

and what about the stats??will they be working at some point?
what i noticed, i saw the pilots bailing out, but there was never a server message showing up, that the plane crashed...

Just count up privately David, you don't need to confirm them because they've all been No.501 so far and we can confirm by our bailouts ;) The good news is we all got out unharmed and got given brand new kites by the Air Ministry. I don't know if you realise but you flew straight past 2 groups of fighters on your trip to Gravesend - you wouldn't be stalking us would you? :eek:

A re-run would be good. I've flown 3 missions so far and not seen a single bomber :( I would also like to see the 109's escort the bombers rather than just fly straight for England hell for leather in the knowledge that we've all taken off.

Can we re-iterate the no-respawn rule please, we had some very strange goings on with one or two 109's seen to go in but then arrive at the scene 15 mins later to take some others out.

well, Osprey, Pitti and me are really not searching for you guys explicitly...but somehow you are always the first contacts we spot...and its not that we fly straight to Gravesend just to pick you guys up...
and no....we didnt see the two fightergroups you are mentioning...the first two contacts were 2hurris, i think it was Drake and Robo...although we watched out all the time to spot contacts, there was nothing to be seen, until we spotted the two hurris on our 3o clock...when we were going after them, suddenly there were 3more hurris i think, and i got surprised by YOU...although before we entered the fight i looked around to avoid such a surprise...

well, you are right about the stats,..and normally i dont really care, but with those really nice stats, its a pity that they dont work......but unharmed is not correct,...i killed Robo...sorry mate...that infact was the only kill that was captured by the stats.

another really annoying fact is, that there is always at least one member of us, who cannot join...thats a shame and i dont get it...while i have seen many people, quitting and rejoining, we the JG26 always seem to have the problem that at least one of our guys cannot join at all, getting time out messages and the like...

Strange. Perhaps you can confirm if I hit one of you then because I'm pretty sure I scored some decent hits on one of you but don't know for sure. As you know, sometimes and entire belt is not enough for a 109 ;)

It's very frustrating to bounce at speed, faster than the 109 and have the 109 go vertical and keep on going with the Hurricane stalling way before.

well, my plane definitely received some shots, but nothing serious...it didnt leak, and i couldnt find any visual damage....i think it was you.i cannot remember whether Pitti received shots as well or not...

Im countin mine privatly, as it says i only got 1.33 kills. On second mission i got 1 beaten up 109 and one deffo kill of 109 but gave me nothing. On 3rd i got stuka, which is recored. On 4th i got 109 thats not recorded. Just cpunt it privatly as your claims can be backed up by logs anyway later

Typical, you bounce him, give a good burst and he says 'nothing serious'. :D

That first mission did not 'happen' I guess, we will re-fly the scenario next week. Second attempt also had no bombers spawned, but it was good formation flying training :D and I guess it did not happen either. Why didn't you join the second session?

The encounter happened the way you describe it except for there were 4 Hurricanes all the time, you attacked one pair and the other just on our left warned as and we broke away. With the visibility as it is I don't wonder you missed the others. I escaped OK, then I tried to help Osprey, scored some hits on you, I thought you were going down for a split second but then you got vertical and it was business as usual. Obviously I didn't give up (although I was tempted to BO or belly-land to save my life) and gave you my best fight but it was not enough. I S!'d you afterwards and then luckily found out the mission will be reflown. I suggest you don't worry about the stats, they're adapted from 1946 and not everything works for CloD, like gun accuracy %ge etc. It's good though for you can see sortie details but that's it. Count them privately as macro suggests. I'd rather see the campaign working than stats - the missing bombers and broken radar are major drawback. I had some good fun anyway, I am sure these things will get sorted. ;) Cheers for flying.

Was good fun yesterday, already issued new crayons to 71st pilots!!! an it was a great furball, keep up the good work !! SALUTE Dawg cya next week

The stats are being worked on constantly from day one. We have had some support from WW but he is very busy and usually works away I believe.

The most important thing is the data base, the stats interpret that so we could apply an updated stats system to it and get better stats later. I shouldnt say too much about the stats though as its not my department and I dont understand all the ins and outs.


Will also try to figure whats going on with the radar. Are you reds assigning a station to each "flight lead" and checking constanly or switching stations? Surely there is enough flight leads to spam away on the radar request to cover all sectors at once? Possibly even 2 flight leads per radar?

hey Robo my friend!

well, i have to admit, it was obvious that you have flown to your best...never had such a long fight against a hurri since the last two beta patches.very well done!!!
i know, that you got some good shots on me, and i was surprised by those, but fortunately, you seem to hit only surface and no vital parts...no engine, no oil or water rads, and no control surfaces either...so i assume that you got some hits on the fuselage...

well, we didnt join the second mission, cause it was a bit annoying to see the mission beeing quit suddenly, just when we were back on our way home...besides, Pitti had not only to fight you guys, but also a hangover from a 4day festival...and i didnt want to fly alone in the campaign...

falke couldnt join because of the timeout message...
i agree with the stats not beeing important....but somehow it puzzles me(although im normally not a stats whore)

Ah I see. I was afraid that you didn't know the mission was being reflown. I understand, we were also gutted and obviously LOL at Pitti. :grin:

I know you're not. I am also checking the stats to figure out what exactly has happened. I've seen you commenting on another pilot unable to join, I was quite sorry about that, you should bring more JG26 chaps in there...

Yeah the fight was alright, that itself made the mission worth flying...

Yes we circled and circled..... and relogged.....

and we circled and circled.... for over an hour...


My only complaint is that someone could have told us there were no bombers.....


.... so we circled and circled.....


but I accept their apologies and look forward the re-run

....and I have to remember that without guys like these we would have nothing to fly anyway, it ain't easy, so big S!

~S~

As all of You noticed stats are not working properly .... yet. That is why I put this thread up >>>

http://sowc.forumotion.co.uk/t38-server-stats

Source code of game is still not integrated in 100% with FBDJ and IL2 Commander from WildWillie. I am in touch with him but we can`t expect any update or fixes until official patches.

There is problem with OnBailOut class in the source of the game since the very release, that is why You guys cant get credit for Your kills sometimes. Please be patient and look through log files I am posting for Your name if You are not sure about Your stats.

On the other hand there will be, hopefully soon another stats software available from ATAG (Colander), but I don`t expect it before official patches as well.

Please do not rely 100% on stats page, and treat it as pictorial view.

P.S.

Excuse me for restarting server in the middle of mission it was just misunderstanding, as I was having maybe 10-15 steaks on the grill at this moment.

Vogler

We had a test mission which we used to well... test the radar. This is it.



ok - this is the kind of positive report you should get from a radar:

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...2/radarpos.jpg

I just tested this today on my own machine in FMB. Now we will take it to the server and test dedi there...

Can one of you red pilots tell me what angels 11 is please at least in feet if not in metres? 1100 feet?


ok so its 14 mi. = 22.5308 km

So you would then look on the map and figure out:

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...mapradar-1.jpg

And the script:

So far so good. Will keep everyone updated.

Hey Farber angels is in 1000 feet ,Angels 11 is 11,000 feet cherubs is in hundreds . Salute

Is it a problem with the stats or a script in the mission? When somebody bails their plane just vanishes, never hitting the ground and therefore being counted as destroyed. I've witnessed this on three occasions now; hit a plane, pilot bails, then as I'm watching the plane head to the ground to confirm the kill it despawns. If the plane is never recorded as destroyed on the server how can the stats engine be expected to record it? On ATAG when somebody bails the plane does not disappear but is shown as an AI plane when it hits the ground and is counted as destroyed. Can SOWC just use the same script as ATAG? I'll admit, I have no clue how this stuff works in CloD but it seems one server is not having an issue with empty planes despawning.

Thanks,

S!

I have a theory about this. We dont have a despawn script, so if you get back to base your plane doesnt despawn and someone gets a kill which actually they didnt... The game automatically takes over if there is no pilot and no script. So either the stats, aircraft limit or the radar script is interfering...

Vogler I will leave some notes on server.

:grin:
Yeah, I really wasn't in flying condition that day. ;)
I think, on the first encounter, I was on you Robo. But I totally screwed it up after you broke away. :mad:

I'm not worried about stats, just about getting at the Hun.

The radar was replying to us but telling us it had found nothing each time. I checked Dunkirk rdf 3 times during the flight.

OK in an attempt to find out exacty whats going on with the radar I ve been using it alone untill I had it working in the FMB last night as you can see a few posts earlier.

Now today I have been testing it on dedicated server. With IL2ClodCommander the mission will load and run with the exception of the radar menu which is greyed out. It is important to note here I did not include the things for clod commander!

So I ran it the old fashioned way and manually loaded it from the console/server dedi...

The mission would not start at all...

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...radarerror.jpg



Before the campaign we had this tested and working on dedi with clodcommander and other scripts...


Wonder if this could be anything to do with 1.07 patch? Another difference is in FMB you have to spawn yourself in as a player...



EDIT1: Vogler spotted I had made a speeling error in the .cs

private static string FILE_PATH = @"missions\Radar2\campaign3.mis";

Should have been

private static string FILE_PATH = @"missions\radar2\campaign3.mis";


Its up, it runs. waiting for the enemy to come with in range now.



If this works which Im 100% sure it will now, we will add the clodcommander script for the stats and test again.

OK tried and tested! Works on dedicated. Here is an example of my scans.

Time on the left is my time, time on the right is in game time. X means no enemy in range. D means I was using Dover radar and R means Rye. So in the test mission use Dover. Dont forget you also need tail number 1 which appears as an A.

00:18 D X Mission Start +/- 2 mins
00:23 D X
00:25 D X
00:26 R X
00:27 R X
00:28 D X
00:30 D X 1100 IN GAME TIME
00:30 R X
00:31 R X
00:31 R X
00:32 D X
00:33 R X
00:33 D X
00:34 D X

00:35 D :) 11:05 IN GAME TIME
10+ Enemy, 12 miles South West of Calais, Angels 11, Heading 300
10+ Enemy, 13 miles South West of Calais, Angels 11, Heading 300

00:36 D :) 11:06 IN GAME TIME
10+ Enemy, 17 miles South West of Calais, Angels 11, Heading 300
10+ Enemy, 18 miles South West of Calais, Angels 11, Heading 300

00:38 D :)
10+ Enemy, 17 miles West of Calais, Angels 11, Heading 300
10+ Enemy, 18 miles West of Calais, Angels 11, Heading 300


There were some more after this but I took off in my hurricane to have some fun. By the time I was airbourne and underway they were within 20-30kms of Folkstone which also came as a message in the chat. So obviously just like real life you need to be up before hand. I could not climb in time to intercept. Howver these are not spawning in on TTIME, just at the beginning of the map, so they get to target in about 40 mins(?).

Also notice the double report which is interesting.


Right now we are positive this works we have added the stats part and left the radar timimngs on the supa dupa test settings, its running in a loop on Storm of war campaigns, so check it out and give us a hand testing it. also get familar with it. DONT press 0 cause it was not letting me go back in the menu afterwards... ;)

Server is up and running radar test mission.

If any of You have a problem with tab+4 menu, let us know here please.

Make sure You have No1 on Your markings...


Vogler

In a few hours we will add an "improved radar" script to the previous missions we have played and make them public. We are going to try to add several radars at once to a specific headquarters so you dont have to chop and change as much... Should be pretty interesting with lots for reds to do...

As mentioned before test missions up, stand by for more! :-P

Radar scripts were working all along, perhaps the delay and lock out where too much. Only took all day but we got there in the end!


OK we have added a super radar adaptation successfully which you will see in future missions with radar sectors being combined into no more than 2 sectors! Also it will have less dealy and almost no lock out.

We are currently running public versions of missions 2 and 3 from the campaign with mission 4 to come this comming week. So you can check out the radar function for yourself.

Please be aware the radar can be avoided by going low! So in mission 2 you might not pick up anything unless public players are there also! Epro 210 attack Dover, Rye and Dunkirk on the 13th August.

Mission 3 you will see allot more radar action as Stuka attack Hawkinge and Lympne aswell as Dover and Rye radar. Shortly afterwards, Bf110 batter manston!

All missions have briefs...

:cool:

As I mentioned already sow forums... If we were using despawn script, stats would be counted properly. Unfortunately despawn script is causing "ghosts" object which are disturbing proper game play. So we decided to sacrifice stats as we can always go through logs.txt file and confirm whatever was going on the server through it.


ATAG software haven`t been released yet...


~S~

Vogler

I think it probably was working on Sunday but because it detects airgroups only, not individual humans and none were spawned we didn't pick them up.

It should pick up several humans in a grid though...? :confused:

With the exception of takeoff accidents very few players are spawning more than once including the AI bombers. Mission times are less than 1.5 hours and I can't say I've ever seen ghosts on ATAG until multiple waves of AI bombers have spawned & despawned so I don't think "ghost" contacts would be a problem in SOWC. The downside of a despawn script would be players getting kills for a/c that they scored hits on but were still able to get home and land. In RL a pilot would likely make a claim against this a/c anyway. Using the stat logs then it would be easier to determine destroyed from damaged than what we are doing now. Since everything about this campaign is experimental it might be worth a try to see if the "ghosts" appear in single spawn missions.

I think odds of this are remote. Would you not need a decent sized group to be within 10km of each other, all within the same grid-square, at the very moment that that the leader depressed the scan button?

I hadn't expected it to pick up single human players, only the bomber airgroups. I would expect the fighters would have tasks to escort the bombers rather than go flat out in small groups toward England to shoot down whatever they can before the bombers arrive. Do blues have autonomy or are they instructed as a larger group? The reds are very well organised believe it or not.

Yes it's picking up anything 4+ since I remember...


Kodiak:

"Only airgroups larger than 3 are detected, 5+ (4-7), 10+ (8-17planes) 20+(18-27) 30+ (28-37) etc. "

I dont think they have to be in the same square just within the squares. HMmm I guess only Kodiak knows for sure :confused:

The frei-jagd concept was prevalant in early to mid BoB for fighters so this has been the tactic we have been using. We are working together, not as well as the reds I believe but its starting to come together with more units on the same TS. We have a group brief. However our role is the opposite of red so the concepts are different.

Grouped to radar into each menu entry. However tests are not good. Both under the old and grouped system sometimes the radar works just right and other times it tells you nothing...

Very very strange. :mad:



OSPREY:

Dictionary<AiAirGroup, int> planePulks = getPulks(GamePlay.gpAirGroups((player.Army() == 1) ? 2 : 1), 1600.0); //all Airgroups in 1600m radius count as one

After much testing and tinkering and liasing with the Great Kodiak, it is with much regret I must inform red that that the radar script which worked in testing both in the FMB and Diedicated server is only 10% useful. Kodiak has said that he will look into into a new system but as he as we are only human we must wait. Hopefully something will be implemented for next week. As it is a re run of las t week I hope it wont matter too much as red and blue will have an enhanced perspective of the forthcomming event tomorow...

We as human beings under the hard circumstances can only try! Hope everyone understands...

One thing I can garentee is that Osprey will have many bombers to engage! :-P


S!

OK Farber. We will be ready !

I wonder where all the blue players are? :confused:

Although I dont mind the target rich enviroment.

Who needs rich targets when you got me sittin in a bus... I mean hurri lol. Nice shot btw didnt even see the tracers

Thanks, had a bit of a mix up actually with my wingman and we both attacked. I collided with your aircraft after you died and lost most of one wing and had to limp home. :-P

No.401 fared particularly well yesterday!

All five of us got at least one full bomber kill and some of us got more than one. Only lost one pilot when his parachute didn't open. Quite pleased with the result.

There were certainly plenty of targets for us to take on. Lost a wing to a cannon round from a sneaky 109 on my second attack run, but parachuted down quite happily.

Bring on the next one!

Also, has anyone had any success with .net repair / dxsetup thing in removing the frame rate drop when attacking the big groups? I started to get hit with the frames dropping until I pulled away from the main group and attacked a few of the smaller formations which made it playable. I guess I'm just wondering if this is still an issue for people?

71st , did ok , we held the line as long as we could, So many 109s ,I gut shot 3 of them with no joy ., Glad to see 401 claim so many Bombers!!! We were lacking 4 seats this week ,but think we can fill them up for next week . SALUTE TO ALL INVOLVED!! Cya sunday thanks Dawg

Yeah I don't mind flying but it's pretty much a joke with these FM's for the Hurricane. Out dived, out turned, out climbed, much slower and with weaker guns.

I jumped a 109 over Eastchurch with 6kft advantage but once the first bounce is spotted and evaded then it's advantage 109. This was where, I think, we had several Hurricanes jumping 3 109's. We were all shot down after a few minutes of fighting.

was my Schwarm 3. 2 Bf109 E1's and a E3... Hardly out gunned... ;)

Well out perfomed tho, 109 has clear advantage. Only way i can compare is flying g.50 against the spit. Got no chance. Think reds need chane of tactics and escort the hurri's:confused:

Here is that mission from my perspective. Available in 1080p on youtube.

http://youtu.be/vELVYK_1G_A?hd=1

The combat you describe begins at 1:50. Salute to 501 & 56, it was a really intense fight.

Also, salute to No.401_Aborted Man, he gave us a hell of a fight and was the reason we were low in that area to begin with.

Yeah he's a good pilot. You probably caught my crappy spin in at 0 feet which led to my death - not enough practice - but really, should I be unable to keep a turn with a 109?

@Farber, you have 1min with the E-1, the E-3 has more firepower anyway. I'd be happier with 1 gun if I had an FM capable in a fight rather than this Ilya-butchered embarrassment.

Less than 1 min in the wings. 1 min in the nose. I would swop for the hurri/spit set up rather than the E1 setup - suppose the grass is always greener on the other side... :-P Maybe this is why Galland asked for spitfires... :-P Pehaps he was flying an E1?

Thing is with the spit and hurri is you get all your fire power at once so you have to make the shot count and not waste any. With the E1 you can afford to be wasteful but you never really get the 1 burst destruction, at least I dont.

You do really, those MG can cause a lot of problems very quickly. The important thing is getting guns on the enemy, I could carry 10 cannon but If I don't get to fire them they aren't much good. I would swap your FM for 4 guns if you like? You're going to lose some friends in combat though ;)

Galland flew an E4, Steinhilper whined about it in his book, complaining that 'the Spaniards' got all the best stuff. I'm pretty sure Galland complained about losing a cannon for the F model and refused it, preferring the E4. In his book he says he asked for Spitfires to wind up Goering but was clear he preferred the 109.

Let's face it, 1C are doing a terrible job.

The sneaky 109 was me. :grin:
(Btw. I've got no credit for this kill in the campaign statistics)

Sadly I wasn't able to attack more of the hurricanes which were attackig the bombers since my wingman got into trouble and called for help.

But it was a pretty immersive sight when all the hurricanes started their attacks on this big bomber formation. :)

It was a good shot, Pitti. My situational awareness was pretty bad. My wingman lost his engine and I was too focused on getting the bombers. Though, that's not necessarily a bad thing! You must have hammered my right wing with a cannon shot or two. I tried to go defensive, but the aircraft was already non-responsive. Got it into a dive to get away a little bit before bailing out.

The campaign stats are weird. We didn't get credit either for 1 or 2 bombers I think, but no worries. I'm only counting one thing really: do I survive the mission? So far, I've lived through each mission I've played so I'm happy!

Nice video mate ;)

All I see is good shooting on blue side and lousy shooting on red (around 2:00.. c'mon lads you know better than that!). It is true though that Emil is easier but still nice flying & shooting.

Second flight of No.501 (Hurricanes) claiming 1x Do-17 destroyed and 1x Bf 109 destroyed, all rtb OK... not bad for bus drivers :grin:

Yes, it was one pass with a short cannon burst (about 4 rounds) directly on your right wing.

I'am aware of the problems with the statistics (I just wanted to mention it). And you are right, surviving is the most important thing for me as well. So far, I've also survived every mission. :)

What is really noticeable for me in notafingers video is how stable a gun platform the 109 is. Certainly the Spitfire is way more 'twitchy' out of the RAF fighters, more so than the Hurricane, but the 109 looks rock solid for firing from distance (that's how it felt when I flew it a while back). On the video the whole thing is so damn easy to win, really pisses me off we can't give a proper fight because of these appalling FM's

Only on the E1, the others kick like a wild horse.

You can take the twitchy out of spit an hurri . trim plane out . Next make the nose heavy ( with elev. trim) put 1 notch down . (maybe 2) You will see it gives you like a fake dead band with very smooth up an down movement
Not the jerking up an down Think i'm loosing 300 feet per min . You have it right when you have a slight pull on joy stick to fly level + I don"t see why this wouldn't work for blue Salute

I think, the 109 is stable enough, you feel the "wild horse" behavior because of the head shake effect, which is too strong imho (your eye and your brain would be a perfect "vibration damper" in RL, which is obviously not simulated here).
The bigger problem is the (programmed) gun inaccuracy. Despite the fact that we can't test it in the original way, clearly see the differences, if you compare these photos and screenshots :rolleyes:
Maybe this is the reason of the weak .303? If the Clod continues the priciple of il-2 DM (the good burst much more valuable, than a many, but separated hits), the gun accuracy is more important, than we thought (couple of cm differencies of the transverse convergence causes huge differences with longitudinal convergence).

How far is it? 100m?
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO...ng_range_2.jpg

Yep, this is the 100 m sheet. Hmm, some hit out of circle. Scandalous :cool:
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO...ng_range_3.jpg

Circle? What circle? I doubt we hit even the canvas...
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO...gun_acc_01.jpg

Suuure... The armourer is squint, or drunk?
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO...gun_acc_02.jpg

Aww shucks, thanks! Hell of an intense couple of minutes there while I was bobbin and weavin, trying to get eyes on landmarks in-between my rolls so I could direct reinforcements! Salute to yous three...Gruber, I think that's the third time you've gotten rounds on me in this campaign, this weekend I'm going Die Hard on your ass!

It would be very cool to enable some canvas painting in game. Give the canvas the same dm as aircraft with hit markers, and a key assignment to level the aircraft to simulate the jacking up of the rear...okay, so I'm dreaming:-P

Not really. There is a target marker just like that one in the fmb but there is no way to raise the 109 tail in order to fire at it. We also do not know if hitting it even makes accurate holes, or any holes.