You didn't get the anology or even the "logic" underpinning it underpants whatsoever did you? :roll: Not surprising..

As usual you troll us,insult us then whine and complain and then you guys get the worst of the argument after we reply to you. Then because you are exactly two years old you want me and my side to be silenced because you don't like our views so you can troll us and insult us a whole lot more. This time without the people you are insulting to defend their positions.

Boy, YOU ARE a real baby.. :roll:

Anyone would agree with this excellent logic one would think? Yet all we hear is "NO Compromise" and more insults! :?

People solving any disagreement take two parties doesn't it? As long as you non-modders insult and troll on the modder folk without the least willingness to compromise you have no right whatsoever to ask for anything from the modders. Especially the totally selfish position you all apparenty support!

Copyright does not prohibit all copying or replication. The fair use doctrine, permits copying and distribution without permission of the copyright holder or payment to same. This allows the user to reproduce or adapt copyright material for personal or private use without permission from the copyright owner.

Maybe a "lifelong ban if sighted" for every proven hacker would be a solution to this problem, tough a lot of work for the admins.
So, have a track running when you spot something cheesy, to prove it.
If the hacks (mods) are so harmless as some people say, nobody would get banned.

robtek :D

ban on-line game cheaters. I am all for it! Wouldn't bother me one bit... :)

Agree 100%

If, for the sake of argument, we disregard the EULA then the original hacker falls under the above protection which, IIRC, does not permit wholesale distribution, which is clearly the case here.

I do believe there is a provision for limited distribution for educational purposes but that clearly does not apply in this case.

--Outlaw.

There is no breach of copyright as both parties already hold a legitimate copy of the file in question.

Rediculous......no company EVER gives up the rights to any product they develop, ever. Nor should they, it's their work the end. So why does this group from the hack community keep posting as though trying to get Maddox Games to give up their rights to their own product?

In the end Maddox Games will not, as they should not.....and the hackers will continue to utilize, alter and distribute Ubisoft/1C/Maddox Games product without consent....and all the hammering at it will not change Maddox Games mind (as it's like some child asking 100x in an hour for a cookie they've been told they can't have).......In this case Maddox Games has given their answer in simply not responding....

No............So give it up, the activities of the hackers will not be legitimate till they make their own "original" product, not alter Maddox Games.

hacking/modding of games (dependant on the posters view though) did give more then a few people an entrance into the game industry. so I'm agreeing with you there, Billfish. Just too bad it had to be IL2. After the release of SOW I could understand it, but not now.

Nah, fair use only applies in certain specific circumstances, that don't apply here (study, literary criticism etc.), and owning a disk with the code on it, even when legitimately purchased, does not mean you own the copyright in the code. If I buy a film on DVD it doesn't mean I own the copyright in the film. It means I own a disk with the film on it. Same with software.

If the hack uses portions of the developer's code then chances are it infringes copyright, unlkess it uses insignificant parts of the code.

Nobody is permitted to open locked code, be sure

he, he ..... Ubi is sooo boring lately that all hardcore flammers moved in here .... great, the more the merrier ... One thing though Evgeny is a great guy so your protection from Ubi moderators wont work here .

and in all this time you didn't manage to find single new argument ....

as i said first level of Invaders all over again .... boring

Zo, neither you, nor any member of the hacker diaspora, have ever posted one legitimate argument for hacking the sim. Not one.

You and your kind are on shaky legal ground, and absolutely have no moral underpinnings for what you are doing.

You are wrong plain and simple. We don't need any other "argument" than that.

And what protection would I ever need from UBI moderators?

@ElAurens

i´ll drink to that!! :-D

robtek

So far in this long thread i've seen lots of name calling, b*ichin, anger even h*te ( its how it seems)..there have been good arguments..poor arguments, attempts at adult discussion and plain old childishness..its like watchin a cheap American soap opera with the pouting and stares of intimidation and stamping of feet! ( sounds like my ex ) anyhow....enough already the bottles open and the genie is out... NO amount of name calling and threats is gonna change that, no threats of ( I'm gonna get ya for this) makes a slight bit of difference ( except to make me laff),theres an old welsh saying " it's easy to be brave behind castle walls" if people feel there is a legal recourse to this issue get on with it already!!..i have a lot of respect for a lot of posters on both sides...but to be honest..some of you are getting tiresome with the same answers. I'd like to think that some of you reading this will think on and p'haps a change will occur in how this is tackled.. but i think not.. its like watchin a yappie little dog giving itself a sore throat cus it dont like the postman.. so.. to end my rant.... Evgeny ..Kudos m8!..Oleg ..thanks for the hard work..Billfish..thanks for the inteligent arguments...Flyzo..great work m8..holdin back the wolves.........

Best Regards

Sparty

You Hackers and your apologists are funny guys, you try to make all these statements like Sparty here attempting to place himself as a moderate(ill disguised) and thus somehow claim the moral ground.

The problem you have, is that you have no moral grounds for any of your statements.

Most right thinking, law abiding, decent people will never put any credence on a word you say, nor take you seriously.

Every word you utter will always be scrutinised with the background thought that you are a hacker and thus not to be trusted.

So make as many blustering statements as you all like, try to ridicule non-hackers, try to convince yourselves(and fail), that you have done nothing wrong, try to conveniently forget who is in the wrong as much as you like, try to insinuate that the majority of the legal community is somehow wrong, YOU IS STILL WRONG ...be sure.




"a thief will always find another thief to admire him................" with apologies to FT.

and your qoute ...lmao..good find that..christmas cracker or corn flake packet...you should read mine at the zoo?.. infact i'l save you the trouble..ahem "clears throat"

" You are entitled to your opinion, I have listened patiently, Now pi$$ off and bore somebody else!

Best Rega ..nah who cares

Sparty

oooh I just thought 123-Wulf-123..if you know me as a hacker from 2 posts..you must have seen me posting at the unmentionable site eh!... how you enjoying them?!..like the new work?!

Mark,
deep breaths, remember what your shrink said mate.

This thread has really run its course now, repetative posts and bickering.
Could we move onto something else please because we are all getting older......

strike a nerve did I?? .......The mask slips so easily Sparty.



As El Aurens has already said you have NO valid arguments therefore you attack anyone who has the bottle to call you for what you are.

Don't flatter yourself m8, your posts are so transparently pro-hacker that a five year old could see through them.

A friend just gave me this thought to post.. he wont post here cus he cant be bothered to get involved and to b honest ..i dont blame him

so for my 4th post in 1 day ALL in the same thread...( wow )

The rules are the rules because we (humans) say they are.
Man has been really good at creating and laying down the law for his own ends.
Some play by the rules, some don’t. The law becomes ineffective and antiquated when more people appose the law than are for it. So the law changes and that is human nature.

Get with the program guys, the human race is at the top of the food chain not only because we are good at ****ing everything else over for a profit and better lifestyle, but we are even better at ****ing each other over for the same reason.

i bid you good day till next time..you see i have a life that needs my attention..So please refrain smoking and make sure all trays are in the stowed position..(hopefully) this thead will be landing on planet Earth shortly

I get all my flattery from you m8..cheers bud :D:D..i also dont wear masks anymore m8....what u c is what u get.... and Finally. ..i really must go..... not had this much fun in ages!..i'l be out after the cartoons to play with ya m8 if ma mum lets me out.. i got some pocket money as well shall we go to the sweet shop and gets gummy bears?!.. cheers m8..tis been fun :D:D

Think the best thing for all non hackers would be to just ignore everything that has anything to do with hacks/hackers in the future.

They clearly thrive on it and are having the time of thire life (as sad as it may sound)


All we should do is PM a moderator or UBI or Maddox or what ever everytime the topic comes up.

We can designate ( maby the first replier for simplicity ) someone who just once politly ask them to take it elsewhere, thats it, nothing more.

If they dont get any feedback, whatever it may be..they will get bored (like with everythingelse in theire life ) and move on.

i couldn´t have said it better.

robtek

my point but MORE to the point b4 it got twisted! lol!!

Regards

Sparty

They say that a beaten man should always know when to run..... ;)

i'm right behind youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!

Run Forrest, run

There is no use to fight on either side anymore. Mods are a fact of life now. Modders will never listen to non-modders and vis versa about changing back. The mentally intrenched non-mods will just have to get one big steam shovel and dig themselves out of their own self dug Grand Canyon and finally realise it. The modders have to quite bringing olive branches to people who could care less about finding any middle ground whatsoever. Every time you ask for a truce to discuss things the flag is shot right out of your hands. The non-mods are like the British at Yorktown in the Revolutionary war. Surrounded by the "rebels" with your "outworks" being overrun one by one but not yet willing to discuss the terms of surrender yet...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ubt_No._10.jpg

Take it some where else please.

Thank u.

just found out there a cockpit replacement for wonder-woman view and you can put it in a full switch server and nobody know the difference?

I hope not. At least from what I know from looking in at AAA they wouldn't allow anything of the kind.

What, I thought they were all monsters and liars?

Maybe you should follow your own advice underpants? Don't like this discussion then just leave... PLEASE!

Thank YOU...

Hay maybe we can freely talk over at Ubi-zo! Nope apparently not. Go back to your ubi-zo cave underpants...

I see it this way,

the modders thought they would do something great, an improvement and then they would be loved by everybody, or so.
In real live they fabricated an hack with some cosmetic improvements for the game and opened the box of pandora.
Now they know what they have done, nobody loves them and everybody yells at them.
But even if hell would freeze over they can´t admit to have started to destroy online-gaming. They are not even able to limit the hack to offline gaming where it would be harmless.
In short, they are human like we all. And not everybody is able to admit his errors.

robtek

The folks at AAA have no power to stop any of the less honorable users of the hack from doing anything they want.

That is the saddest thing about this whole affair. They wanted to help the community, and I do believe that was what they were thinking, but instead they created a monster they had no power to control.

There are lots of people that are using the sound hack and the hacked AI aircraft and not hurting anyone, however, there are numbers of people using the hack to do nefarious things online. It is happening. And that is why I, and many others, are so upset.

you guys keep attack those poor souls at those forums but in reality they are the least of your worry don't you know?

Eh... and what about folks like me who want to keep it vanilla because we want to build missions according to a standard? And at the same time want to keep the online play fair?

Where do we come in?

If you don't whine,attack or complain we'll see what we can do for you buddy...

There is no way to claim moral ground on an immoral deed in this case.Like I said few posts ago, the mod supporters might get just about 100 more of their ill-minded fans attacking us, this will change nothing.


Thus no new arguments are needed.Fly_zo ultimately buried his credibility with his comment.Only the legal arument has been proven partly wrong.Besides that, no one of you hackers ever posted anything worth a discussion.

Right, there can be no trust for people who would twist any logic to get their kiddy desires
fulfilled.



No problem, we`re just going to post the same arguments over and over until they give up.Their only way to "win" is to intimidate, silence us.
Besides Jasonbirder`s posts not one of them ever made me think a second thought.

As everybody can see you only have to be a modder-fan and you have no problems.

Who cares about free will, free press, free expression of opinions and all this obsolete stuff of the free world?

There are and there have been places where everybody had to knuckle under a few bullys.
those places were and are not a desirable place to be.

robtek

My impression is that it's the other way around. I have never heard anyone say non-modders were bad except when they attack the mod community and called them cheats and liars.

Exactly!!!!!

Thats because non-modders haven´t done anything to offend anyone!!!!

But then the modders started to ruin online-gaming!!!

Now the modders are complaining about the people who want to have a fair online-game.

You, the hackers (modders) opened pandoras box!!

And now you are surprised that not everybody loves it???

You are called liars and cheaters because cheating has happened and people lie if they say the hacks wont be used for that.

robtek

When is this going to stop? All the back and forth nonsense.... GET OVER IT!! The sim has been hacked.. either use it or don't.. but all this BS will not change anything... If any of you know how to relock the sim or if Oleg plans to do it great!!! In the meantime however this back and forth nonsense is just too darned much for me.... because it changes absolutely nothing. The sim is still hacked... and all you guys are doing is hammering the wedge in deeper and deeper... It isn't about "letting the hackers win" .... if there is a winner or looser at this point in time then they already won once the sim was hacked and Oleg said he had neither the manpower or the time to deal with it... whether or not it is a temporary victory only time will tell.. but what pray tell will any of you do? NOTHING... because there is nothing you can do except continue to get your drawers in knot on forums across the net about this.... and that to me is just a waste of time... Id rather be flying or reading....

All this round robin has been going on for what.... @ 3 months now... maybe longer? Pfft... grow up .... all of you and get over it because all this childish cr@p wont change a d@mn thing. Either use the hacks or don't as your conscience dictates.. but enough if the whining and cryiong like a bunch of 3 year olds.. for crying out loud... I can't believe sometimes that some of you guys are grown men.

I totally agree....

Did not take you guys long to turn this place into the UBI zoo. Well done.

S!

We are kinda terraforming Mars. ;)

I understand completely and agree with you. I've spoken with Jolly verbally on TS and I truly believe he is not someone that will allow any known cheats to come from his site. Still, the fact of the matter is that you're right, pandoras box has been opened.

Stalker, please do NOT put words in my mouth. I'd like to know where I called you or anyone else a cheat? Don't twist my words. This is why I long ago stopped listening to you and pretty much skip over anything you type here. The most I've said is that there are some "mods" that give an unfair advantage and thats what the online community is concerned about. No wonder you won't go over to Ubizoo, you would've been banned by now if you haven't been already.

Well, despite what I'm hearing from the hack community -that Oleg approves it tacitly by not commenting on the issue- that doesn't seem to be the case:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=416

"Hate" is quite a strong word in my dictionary.

Someone hacks the game....some guys think, oh well, it is hacked and we can open a web site with a sound mod and make some AI planes flyable, hey maybe we can do some map stuff too.

Onliners brand these guys as cheaters out to destroy online gaming and life as we know it on this planet while the numbers at Hyperlobby are stable and the chat box at the bottom, at least when it is in a language I can understand, has little or no discussion of cheating.

Verbal war erupts on Ubi forums and spills onto other IL2 sites around the web and several zillion words appear on the mod/hack, a good percentage of them from about a dozen zealots on either side and somehow we get through the day.

4.09 is nowhere to be seen and SOW is a year off, I guess we will be stuck with this tempest( I hear the evil ones are trying to turn it into a typhoon) in a teapot for awhile longer.

Look, you can talk drivel like that at your boards.I recommend going back to your hole.Evgeny is the boss here,so bite me.


Sorry, we will not stop informing about what has happened and what meaning it has for the il2 community.This serves as information for those willing to have it all explained.We are the counterbalance for those fogging the facts to get their way relevant.It takes about half an hour daily to counter posts like yours so it`s not much of a problem.



Yeah great, you had to let your own opoinion get in the way.As a result you opened Ubi forums for promotion of the mods with are AGAINST the developper.Get your facts straight, dude.You totally scewed it back there, now maybe you can refrain yourself from trolling here.


Well no.Those people are trying to twist anything to make the mods look good.Some guy who only just bought the game thinks he can do mods because it is ok.Well no, it is not okay,it is against Oleg Maddox and he should be informed about that aswell as the past and future consequences.Next thing is his choice on whether he wants to go deeper or not.



So go flying or reading.We`re informing people on what meaning have the mods for the whole case.We are informing on its origin and tasks.The mod suuporters here are trying everything to twist the facts to fit the unofficial,wrong and most of all, deadly doings for the IL2 community.



This seems very similar to what another mod supporter posts in this thread.
As far as I know you got no power here.Evgeny did not say what he thinks about our work.He can always ask Oleg.
If Oleg Maddox says he doesn`t care/mind about the mods then the issue disappears alltoghether.
Meanwhile, nothing here has been posted about that, so you just go back to promoting so called mods on your forum while we can do our decent job here.

You think you deserve to be a mod?heh

When I read stuff like this I truly wonder how BearCat can tolerate you guys. I didn't realise your hate ran so deeply...

who said anything about hate?
the dog, who´s got hit, barks.

robtek

This is very simple....

The modders/hackers placed the sim at risk and continue to do so....So yes, it has happened YET is made worse by continued efforts....Yet no matter how much griping, statements of "tough get over it" and etc. are made.....Most will not, and why should they forgive the wrong that continues to be heaped upon......So what makes you think that those especially making the hacks, yet also those who support and push for them.........Will EVER be welcomed by those who support the sim and Maddox Games hard work (that including 3rd party "official" work).

We have no reason to, the hackers keep compounding their transgressions doing nothing to resolve the situation to any degree.

K2

+1

Are you calling Oleg 'a dog'? M8, that tells everything. :?

Excuse me?

What exactly can you do?

Can you recall all the decompiling tools that have been spread all over the web?

Can you stop any of this nonsense from getting online?

Can you put correct cockpits in any of the AI aircraft?

The answer is a resounding NO to all questions.

So, just what can you do, buddy?

make a brand new locked fm's online il-2 version.....

of course it is doubtful this will ever happen now.

I'm calling BS.

Of all the ludicrous posts you have made over the last weeks this is over the top.

The hackers are gonna make a hack proof version of the game?

Thanks for the laugh.

Pure comedy gold.


BTW, I have a bridge in London I can sell you cheap.

You should know, you full of it up to your eyeballs...

and why shouldn't they try for a hack proof version? If it keeps crazies like you in your caves I should think it would be worth all the effort.

How do they want to do that? Wouldn't it require to rewrite an essential part of the games source code, which they don't have, to implement new encryption methods? Oleg will surely not make Il-2 open source just to help the hackers to fix the problems they have caused.

It would be like to set a fox to keep the geese.
And i am shure there would be a back door in that "locked" fm.

robtek

Just out of curiosity ( killing cats an all)... sensible non aggressive posturing answers please..not that i'm probably gonna get any.... what exactly is it gonna take to settle this?...simply put & btw i use the mod but i dont hack (dont know how) & i dont fly online cus i dont really care to anymore so..that aside... can this be sorted or is it all done n DONE now a schism?

Best Regards

Sparty

Ps ..dont shout at me...means nowt! ... ive heard ducks fart before!

which ends with

As far as I`m concerned you`re not even looking for sensible answers.


Everything can be brought back to normal.

Everything depends on what hackers do now.Good will may result in developping online anticheater tools but that is highly doubtful - there is no reason to trust them.The anticheater tool would be tested and, if succesful, accepted.
Since Oleg expressed his concerns about online fair play, he just might accept such a state of affairs.If that is okay with him, I don`t see a reason why anyone else should disagree.

If all this was done in the first place, the problem might have never appeared.

I don't really know but the possability is there. Obviously the code has been opened. Anything that has been unlocked can be locked in a similiar manner. From what i have seen the code/lock seems to be like a door lock and once inside, the game can be changed pretty easily. The "lock" doesn't extend throughout the game engine. Change that begining lock to something else and people will have to break into it all over to cheat on-line. That will keep the on-liners happy which I am all for. As long as the off-liners can modify the game to best suit there needs I don't mind if there is a basic simple on-line version.

The problem is that the on-liners have so alienated the mod community with all their petty, childish insults that they could care less by now to do anything for them.

Just so we understand each other Carguy!

" Ps ..dont shout at me...means nowt! ... ive heard ducks fart before!
As far as I`m concerned you`re not even looking for sensible answers."


That statement is meant to convoy.. simply....dont shout at me calling me a hacker etc cus ive heard it all before and im not interested... and thank you for answering anyway..The question WAS asked in all seriousness !!! does that help?

Best Regards

Sparty

Would it be fair, or make me a cheater in online play if I did the following to my sim software and others did not thinking we were on a level playing field and trying to keep it that way.

* Altered default skins to look different then normal, be they historical or arcade (Chartruse for German, Flourecent Pink for British, etc.), and or could highlight hitbox area's.....That ability why M.G. hardcoded default skins.
* Altered canopies to be different then how others saw them even making current obstructions in view gone.
* Altered cockpit components to improve view from in the plane, reducing or removing head rests and the like an example.
* Altered canopy glass and gunsights to be able to see better through them.
* Altered gunsights to have less obstructive reticles, even reducing or enhancing their brightness.
* Altered gunsights to be gyro stabilized and compensating to help me place my rounds more accurately.
* Altered bombsights to see clearly at a greater range.
* Altered early scope type sights to not black out the surrounding area.
* Added mirrors to planes that did not have them "in the sim", so I would have use of them when others did not.
* Had the ability to move about the cockpit more then others to improve my view, possibly even to impossible extremes, and with non existent parts of the cockpit making windows through it.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible to me via increasing reflectivity.
* Made visual cues as to other planes show better and longer even at further ranges by making smoke, fuel leaks and contrails more visible, lasting longer before fading and able to see them at greater ranges.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible at greater ranges, be it through improving dot range, or when such objects would show to me.
* Made terrain more visible at greater ranges helping in navigation.
* Made sounds distinctive so I could easily tell from inside a noisy cockpit what types of planes were near and weapons being fired and so on.
* Made sounds give greater audible cues as to the activity around me and its proximity to me.
* Had fire extinguishers in planes that others did not.
* Could see exaust flames (even though many planes had dampers) from other aircraft to help aid in spotting during low light conditions.
* Reduced my own gunflashes to not blind me, and or increased how I'd see others to aid in visual cues.
* Altered the torque of my engine....More giving me quicker rolls, less more stability .
* Etc. the list goes on........

......and I'll not even touch on altering weapons loadouts, types, FMs, DM,s and so on....


So, if I used any of the above in online play when others did not...........Would it be cheating? (careful of your responses as to say others would be suckers not to, or think not informs others as to your expected fair play).

Billfish,
As I said before:

"No the only problem that exists is when someone uses the mod to deliberately change an aspect of his/her aircraft capabilities for online play against unaltered opponents. Then and only then does one become a cheat and that is the crux of the matter."

I guess I would have to say that doing what you said would be cheating. But, again only in online play.

What someone does with thier game in the privacy of thier own home, I could care less about.

Agree 100%........Hence the problem, as many of the mods shift the advantage unfairly "online".....What many fail to realize yet Oleg stated often, aspects of the sim sometimes had to be balanced either due to the engine or fair play (what was the majority of aircraft like).

......and to state EVERYONE should then use the mods online is like stating EVERYONE should do a wrong to make it right, this naturally not even touching on true cheaters, who do things simply to gain an edge which I accuse no one here of being yet we know they exist.

Trouble is, many of the mods never the less result in unbalancing the field......Let alone making it easier for the cheaters.

This thread is getting old.... Let's move on people.

Said that already, but people (from both sides of the argument) won't let it, sad really innit?

Too easy...
 

Chris..get the frying pan m8...the tabs have stopped workin! ( i shoulda listened to ya threads n threads ago)

sparty, chris,

nobody told you that you have to follow this thread.
if you dont like it, dont read it.
if you dont contribute bore someone else.
we are having fun here.
robtek

Nah..its interesting but thanks !! :D

I'm not even an onliner. I have not played online in years. I'm an offliner, and I understand better than anyone the progressive offliner frustration about the way the development took since AEP.

My gripes about the hack/mod of the game are mainly three:

1) Solidarity with the online community who may be completely destroyed if those hacks ever gets to be a common and widespread tool for cheaters -I don't mean honest users of the mods, I mean real cheaters that aren't surely here but will sooner or later take any chance to spoil the fun for others. We all know that kind of person/kid exists.

2) Real concerns about HOW it was hacked, and the legitimacy of anything done against the will or without the consent of the right owners. Really. And for your information, no, I'm not an hypocrite: I don't have any illegal download of music or films, not any other similar thing. I paid for everything I have (Which doesn't mean I agree with the legal system concerning intellectual property -but I obey it). For me, it having not the official blessings, is a no-no. And I say it being in another game's mod team myself. 'Europa Barbarorum' for RTW anyone? But that game has been freely modable from the start -with explicit permission from the developers- and different mods are incompatible online.

3) Serious doubts about the consistency, quality and compatibility in the long term of the plethora of mods that will eventually be made, making really hard to distinguish the ones that are really good from the zillion of weird tweaks and half-assed projects.

Possibly so mate, but the records stuck, people are going over the same topic time and time again without actually getting anywere.
I was under the impression this was a forum to discuss 1C's present and upcoming games.

I accept that IL2 has been hacked/modded (depending on your point of view), but regardless of whats been said that will not be changed and more stuff will keep coming out to change the game.
However, there are two distinct camps here and I think they will never agree, or even agree to disagree so it may be time to close up shop and move onto a new topic.

As for the bore someone else, this is what the thread and some of the postee's are doing without my help, never mind.

Christmas season cease fire .... can we do it?

http://sierratoysoldier.com.mytempwe...M007-01(L).jpg

Where have I promoted mods on UBI? You show me with a quote where I promoted mods at UBI? You can't find one because I never promoted mods.. so you get your facts straight bub. Show me where mods are "promoted" at UBI? Discussed.. yeah I did allow discussion.. to NOT do so is stupid. You can talk all the horsesmack you want to.. in the end the facts are still the same.. and I really don't care what you or anyone thinks of me or what I do at UBI.. this isn't UBI and it kills me that on more than one site I get told that "this isn't UBI man...." and "These aren't "your" boards.... LMAO... as if I had my own boards.. NEWSFLASH UBI isn't my boards.. I just moderate there... It is so funny to me that I am catching flak from both sides of the fence on this issue so AFAIC I must be hitting some chords. You can inform people without all the name calling and immaturity.. well maybe you can't but it can be done... I have seen people in this thread who have not changed their stance on the subject but have toned down the hostile rhetoric.... which is all I am saying.

Exactly....

And this continuous back and forth by both sides does.... what.. to help the situation...?!! Oh yeah... we got some real resolution coming with all this banter right??!! So ... these guys are just supposed to say... oops we made a baddie... and put it back as it was? COME ON!!!! Humpty is off the wall..... at least if there was some kind of dialog other than the same cr@p back and forth then perhaps some kind of resolution in the form of an enhanced CRT or punkbuster type app... or something could be produced.... but this back and forth same old $hit over and over and over does absolutely NOTHING.... That is all I am saying....

I am not saying OK the deed is done everybody modup and get on the bandwagon.... h@ll I have been to their site.. and y'know what... some of those mods DO offer some things that folks have wanted for a long time.... That is a fact. I have chosen to not use any of them because of the bottom line as to how they were done and I want to see what 1C is going to do.... and yeah.. before anyone quotes Oleg again.. I know what he said.... and I know what Ivan said.... but I am still waiting to hear from Oleg... and I mean more than the two comments I have seen on the issue this far..

and

So that's what I am waiting for..... At least Kelly is coming up with facts and points..... but some of you are just rehashing and rehashing the same old name calling and BS.... and then some of the pro mod folks come over here and just post.. and they get lambasted..... it is getting old... if it accomplished something then great... if every thread like this got more paste back in the tube then great.. but it doesn't.. and time marches on and the schism gets wider...

All the points Kelly made in this post:

were excellent points as to how these mods can become unfair aids without altering FMs and DMs.... at least those comments served to enlighten, to add some relevant light on the subject but a lot of this other stuff is just like running around waving your arms in the air and screaming .....

Rgr me too.... and I think that hacked it not because they wanted to alone but because it was a challenge.... this was the only unhacked cfs ion the market.... and it stayed that way a long time.... but it first got hacked @ 2 years ago I think... it wasn't a major thing until it was made public.... then AHBL..

Ok, example time;

Though I disagree in principle as to hacking the sim, and have strong objections as to how the hacks are implimented exposing hidden content, also in that many of the hacks are quite simply cheats unbalancing online play..........A request of many was made for the ability to switch the reticle on and off, and remove the gunsight for racing tournaments.

Those two requests and any subsequent attempts to make such alterations "IF" delivered in a coded package making it difficult for "cheaters" to alter the sim further are though infringing on sim copyrights tolerable......In that they would not aid cheaters, nor unbalance online play....Simply adding features to the sim which do no harm.

If all of the hacks from day 1 had taken that course, and been presented in a responsible way...........I'd have zero issues AND would of never even taken a stand on this issue letting a group I respect, Maddox Games deal with their copyright infringement themselves if they so chose.

.........and no, it is NOT simply a matter of taste or preferance, as anything supplied to the masses will get used, and we all except the most unintelligent can tell what hacks will unbalance online play.

What stuns me most of all is where are the new objects, where are enhanced features in the sim itself (making currently locked items such as F6 server switchable, adding recon photos to briefings, adding the ability for briefing sounds to be downloaded, making the plane icon on minmap paths server switchable, etc.).....Where are all the things that really enhance the sim "expanding it"....While doing no harm in any form?.....Various attempts at mapping all I'm seeing in this regard.

K2

More and more cheaters have shown up in online servers. Hope new anti-cheat system will be out soon. But please keep the modability of IL2. I'm sure it will make the game much more brilliant.

I understand you totally.... and agree with you.... which is one reason why, as good as some of the things I have seen seem.. and some of them are good improvements.. and have nothing to do with unbalancing online play... , I have NOT DLd any of the mods yet. I want to see what 1C does.... I wish Oleg would offer up a little more input than the two one liners quoted above.... but since he hasn't I will just wait until he does...

I agree with you Bearcat, Some more insight from Oleg would help, but, let's look at two possible scenarios...

If he says (in so many words) it's cool, then fine. Mod on.

If he says no, it's not cool. Then what?

Sadly there is no easy way out of this.

Simply being cordial to each other won't fix things. Online will continue to suffer in the interim.

What to do?

The only reason I am so passionate about this is because I love the sim so much.

*SIGH*

Perhaps it is just not politically correct but I don't recall anyone so far in this thread actually mention the quality of this sound mod.

I have been hoping for some time to hear a real Merlin in this best of flight sims and yes the mod does come close in some ways but falls down horribly in others. The phasing loop over the engine sound quickly becomes intolerable; flying the Storch and U2V? would also be far more believable if Oleg and crew had a hand in it.

Me - I've gone back to 4.08m and very happy to do so. Roll on 4.09...

I dream of Tigermoths, Avro Austers, Whirlwinds, Walrus, Swordfish, Lysanders et al but am still a very happy offline player of whatever these most excellent of programmers and researchers offer us.

A Linux native compile would be nice...
.

Bearcat wrote…

“and I really don't care what you or anyone thinks of me or what I do at UBI.. this isn't UBI and it kills me that on more than one site I get told that "this isn't UBI man...." and "These aren't "your" boards.... LMAO... as if I had my own boards.. NEWSFLASH UBI isn't my boards.. I just moderate there...”

Yes you do own it! And no you don’t moderate it! You never did! In that sense Carguy is completely correct, but you will never realise this. Part of the disease I guess. It is really sad to think what that site could have been if the right management and moderation had existed.

The rest of this “mod” drama is bla bla to me as I exclusively use this sim offline and just look forward to the next patch and then to SoW that hopefully will be built to accept and control moderations.

Viking

OK guys time to stop.. share pics of il2 modifications ( not link ) , talk about it but stop to argue about your personal affaires PM each others is better for those matters .

Peace.

Now lets enjoy the site.

...Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.
And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/fly_zo/pulp.jpg

...and to get back on topic:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...o/gunsight.jpg

Ah one of my favorite movies! :)

"share pics of il2 modifications ( not link )"

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...1/grab0022.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...1/grab0037.jpg

Beautiful simulation.

Did you know that by adjusting the specular settings like that mod does that it makes it easier to see planes at night or at dusk/dawn? If you have that mod and I dont and we are in a coop on opposing sides with no or very tight icons.... you will have an advantage over me because of that mod as you will be able to see me bette tnan I you..... this is the kindof stuff that has so many hackles up.... is that fair? What about in competuition where there is a night mission? So does that mean that like it or not inorer to be competitive I am forced to DL these mods as well? Is that right.. or is it wrong.. if for whatever reason I am opposed to doing this and you arent? A slippery slope my friend.

Very inspiring, to have a photo of your enemy right by your gunsight. :-P

so why not download it bearcat, you wuss ! :) It looks really nice imo.. If everyone has an opportunity to download these mods equally then what is the problem. It's that you choose not to isn't it?

Because he wants to play fairly with others?.......Though i'm sure the "glowing "feature"" in low light conditions a boon to some.