If no calculations have to be made until an impact occurs, how does the computer determine that an impact has occurred? Magic?

No. What difference does that make?

I only have experience programming Unreal, but if it were me, rather than maintaining permanent collision on trees, I'd instead be setting each aircraft as the trigger. Aircraft are already doing a whole bunch of checks per tick, I'd set them to also check for the existence of trees/buildings/whatever within a set radius (based on point of origin) and then enable collision for any detected (disabling any that are active but no longer within said radius), which would keep the number of active "objects" to a minimum.

That said, I have no idea how actors are setup and controlled in this engine, so my methods may be insanely difficult or completely impossible as it stands. Whoever said that they need to get better programmers though is talking out their arse. The ones they have may well be exceptional, but if the engine they're working with was written by someone else and is a mess, then that'll put serious limitations on anyone.

All the difference, if you butcher peoples opinions and cast your own while you dont even own the game we are discussing how can you talk like you know?

If you live in the U.S and are waiting for the game to arrive then maybe you should do exactly that and speak from experience rather than just bloat these posts with ignorant crap like I WIN I WIN!

Show me and the others you have probably annoyed by behaving immaturely, that you do have some respect for others by not arguing back to this post, and take on board what I am saying out of respect for yourself too.

let`s be clear - ROF, albeit less detailed, models the sense of altitude and flight above terrian much better than COD. COD`s terrain is just too cartoonish...

The best way forward for COD is when 777 takes on WWII combat flight sim :)

I dunno mate tbh I like the terrain but i do like the washed out look WoP, had too.
I tried GAPA and desaturated the colours a little and thought it looked great maybe you should have a play with it too

http://www.mediafire.com/?lzhjwmmmmme

I only offer opinions on things that I have seen on this board. If you see me doing otherwise, feel free to point out examples.

By the way, I am not the slightest bit concerned that I may have annoyed people who come in here whining about this game. Not even a little.

Yeah you would love that right? You must be a teenager beause only a teenager likes to bait people for fun.

As opposed you? Who doesnt even own the game and only comes here to start arguments with people who do own the game.

You have proved my point. There's nothing more to say.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I have no idea what point you think I proved, but I have no intention of leaving.

I'm not starting arguments. The people who come in here whining are the ones starting the arguments.

Oh i edited that as you can see because I really cant be arsed to give you anymore excuses to talk.

In other words, you're talking out your ars. I comment on things I have seen on the board. You don't need to own the game to do that. Just ask Heliocon.

Some pics from FSX over England with A2A Spitfire as comparison.

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...nnst/spit3.jpg

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...nnst/spit2.jpg

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...nnst/spit1.jpg

and a pic I took on ops in COD

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...unnst/cod1.jpg

I think CoD looks better but not by much I got to be honest.
Like i said i quite liked the desaturated look of Wop it had a WW2 feel to it.
Shame it couldnt be reproduced as a mod when the SDK comes out.

Ummm - because I have some experience with programming but I know how programmers solve these issues because I have been playing games/beta testing for a good 6+ years now. I also spent a year in class using Maya 7.5/Autodesk which is what is used for game models and CGI. For a good amount of time I also considered attending Digipen (a school for game design).
I also am a big hardware techie. Now none of that really matters because anyone could claim these things, thats why I am always careful to rely on and explain everything I say as per the game engine. You wont see me throwing around opinions on other topics based on what I have "heard" or on "generalities" because I do not have the knowledge to contribute meaningfully to those debates.

Thats why I normally bring out the truckload of quotes/posts I made in mid-late 2010, and the best one is when Luthier said DX11 tesselation would never be used for anything other than "plane wheels". I said that was absurd etc, and earlier this year in that german interview they said what they would use DX11 tesselation for (all the things I talked about) and direct compute for the physics (only person/first person here to ever suggest or comment on it) while using the new shader/lighting pipeline for the engine (especially clouds etc) and therefore confirmed all of my points.

Also as someone who has done alot of talking with devs a year or two back in closed beta about collision detection in MMORPGs (most games you can just run through people) I gained alot of knowledge about how it is done. Same thing for Closed beta on Mortal Online and Darkfall which are the two most recent games that use multiple hitboxes.

I dont comment on things I dont know about, as others have re-affirmed my point there is 0 reason for them to be having to generate hitboxes for all trees all the time. There are easy fixes other companies have used to solve these types of problems, maybe it wasnt translated into russian?

Being a beta tester does not make you a programmer. Nor do you have anything to do with this project, so every comment you make about it is nothing but a guess.

If no calculations have to be made until an impact occurs, how does the computer determine that an impact has occurred? Magic?

...or a newt-fancier, depending on pond.

Instanced collision physics with proper performance is nothing new.. Please don't try to say that having colliders for each tree in CoD is impossible, because it is not, has been done before, and there are implementations and examples of this dating back tons of years.

If you take away the fancy color grading in Wings of Prey, it is quite obvious their engine is more streamlined and better with regards to rendering, performance and quality. One must also note that they're probably not using the most high-res textures possible, due to console memory overhead and managment problems.

Regarding Haze;

If you notice in every single photo you've posted, there is a fine light blue haze. This is air particles scattering light.

WoP has a better implementation of this than CoD. I'd actually venture and say that CoD viewdistance is too far as it is right now. Usually there is more haze.

Once again, distance based exponential height fog is nothing new, nothing complicated, and nothing performance taxing.

The green tint of the haze you see in WoP, is simply the post-processing colour grading being done on the fly. If you took it off and tweaked some of the Haze shader RGB values,. you can turn it light blue and 100% realistic.

I never said it was impossible. I have no idea how you got that from anything I have posted. All I asked is how the computer can detect a collision without doing any calculations (as Helicon described).

None of which changes the fact that WoP looks like green puke.


No, it doesn't. That isn't even a close call. The horizon in the photographs I posted looks very similar to CoD. It looks NOTHING like WoPuke.

David, can you show us this 'puke' on every-map in the game? Whilst filters are used, you're being quite extreme in your descriptions.

Of course I'm being extreme. There's no actual puke in the screenshots. But they all have an overwhelming puke green hue. Just look through this thread.

Even if you get rid of the puke green hue the problem is not completely fixed. WoP simulates extremely hazy conditions. Southern England during the BoB was not that hazy. From everything I have read the weather during the battle was unusually nice.

That is true. But my point is that the green filter isn't used on every map in the game, and some maps are quite stunning.

Previously, I posted a link to windlight-an application which adds realistic lighting conditions to games.
Check it out, IMHO it looks realistic, and would work great with CoD if the two could be merged.

I checked out several maps. They were all very hazy.

Dave, I usually stay well clear of this topic as it comes up time after time after.....ad nauseum.

Whilst I described WoP as 'viewing the world through cheap sunglasses', I agree with you. It looks like green puke.

And I admire your tenacity on this forum. I'd've given up long ago.

I also agree with phillip (hello mate), that the lack of hedgerows in CoD is disappointing.

But I've just got back from the CoD 'Cross Country' mission from Netheravon to Montdidier, with the time for startup set at 5.00am, and the realism I experienced was far better than any flight sim (or console game) I've previously 'flown' over the last twenty-odd years.

I'd go as far as to say 'a different league'.

Yes I have RoF, yes I have FSX with UK Real Scenery and GEX, yes I have various versions of IL2.

Whether on take-off, at 10000 ft, or on the let-down into Montdidier, I could almost smell the air. (I just had to have the cockpit canopy open all the way).

I wouldn't go near WoP simply because every shot I've seen looks like it was washed along with the baby's nappie, and because I've read the reviews.

So good luck Dave, I've a feeling this comparison of apples and pears will continue for some time yet!

Cheers!:grin:

You are a complete moron. Try reading the posts. Oh, I forgot you dont have the intellectual capacity to type more than 2-3 sentences in a row.

I should not even answer your idiotic question, the issue is and has never been the collision itself - its the calculations for working out the collision that is the problem, because currently they are not selectivly generating hit boxes based on distance as every other sane programmer would have the engine do (based on what we have been told).
Also I didnt just beta test, I know a number of devs from games pretty well and have talked to them about similar issues.

No point in arguing with you, seriously the biggest fanboy on the forum, when ever someone criticises the game in any way you are always there to spout ignorrant crap. If I am so unqualified (and indeed I am not to programme the engine) then why did they mention implementing my suggestions specifically about 3-4 months after I posted/started advocating for them? Why did luthier do a complete 180 on dx11 uses?

Better than your track record.

None of this is relevant, we are not comparing the games, we are comparing what they display and how much that display effects performance. With some polishing COD will look great, but currently in general it looks mediocre and performes horribly. Also cities are a disaster.

Selective pov ftw right? Echo chamber..........

You haven't attempted to answer my question, you keep pounding your fist and call me a moron.

So, I will ask again, quoting you directly:

How does the computer determine if there is an impact with the hit box without doing any calculations? You can't say that the calculations needed to determine if there has been a collision "don't count" without explain why they "don't count". Oh, and calling me a moron is not nearly as compelling an argument as you seem to think it is.

Erm, no offence but the original post was a comparison of screenshots for realism.

I posted my comments based on an assessment of realism, together with an agreement with Dave that WoP looks like 'Green Puke'.

I didn't post anything connected with the technicalities of programming or collision models because I know nothing about those topics.

I know what I like though.:)

Ok what we have is a pro photographer with a good eye for detail and color saying WOP is baby dudu and I agree with him. Now if you are looking at WOP on a small monitor that most likely has not been color corrected than it might look good to you.

As a graphic artist I can say that COD looks better to me than WOP and yes I have used both sims. The haze and green tint is, of course, used by the developers to look like old photos of the period. It works for some and for others it does not. I personally like the textures in COD and find them more like the real textures I see when flying.

Not really a matter of which is better, just a matter of taste.

Point proven, again..
So with that in mind your comments dont me anything now do they as you dont own this game "so every comment you make about it is just a guess" because you cant speak from experience.

I really think mumsnet is more your scene, you'll fit right in.
http://www.mumsnet.com/info/join

None of our comments on the collision problem mean anything. We're all just guessing. The light and color issue is a different matter. I have photographs and screenshots to support my comments.

I have no idea what point you think is being proven.

oh well shame, maybe you should ask all the others you deliberately wind up what they think, but i guess they have all made it obvious anyway.
anyhow i'm off to bed with my wife while you no doubt will go to bed alone, after spending a few more hours being padantic and smarmy over a game you dont even own. Why are you here again. Oh yeah to comment on other peoples comments. Mumsnet mate, spot on.

So.......

if we all agree that the WoP filter is, largely, ugly on most levels...

we're all in agreeance?

Because CoD is a lot more realistic, but as far as the SE of England is concerned, more hedgerows and less trees are needed.

oh, and the high-altitude town/city textures need looking into.

But all in good time :cool:

oh, and hello Dutch! I hope things are well ;)

Wow. LittlePickle, I think you just broke the irony meter on my PC.

Snort. Fnyuk, fnyuk.

Sorry, had a few beers.:)

And hello to to you too phillip, the clouds are a bit crap after all, aren't they?!:grin:

Already answered, sorry I dont have time to teach you english, go back a few pages. Simply not worth responding to you anymore if you lack the ability to read.

Can someone else point me to where he answered that question? I can't find it.

There are some great pics in this thread! Keep it going please:D I play all the games in this thread and like each one for what it is.....

[QUOTE=Cobra8472;276538]Regarding Haze;

If you notice in every single photo you've posted, there is a fine light blue haze. This is air particles scattering light.

WoP has a better implementation of this than CoD. I'd actually venture and say that CoD viewdistance is too far as it is right now. Usually there is more haze.

[QUOTE]

On the subject of haze: like so many other issues of how the game looks compared to RL, it must be remembered that RL is not what it used to be!

In 1940 England photochemical smog from car exhausts similar to what we see in most urban areas nowdays was non-existent, there being so few cars and petrol rationed. There was airborne pollution, but as this was primarily particulate it created a lower, more localised, visible grey haze more like driving behind a badly maintained diesel engined bus. I recall reading somewhere that the summer skies of WW2 were remarked on for their clarity in SE England, since even coal was heavily rationed for domestic use.

On a similar vein, I remember a TV documentary about cloud formation noting that in the days after the bombing of the twin towers, while CA over the US was shut down, the skies were much clearer and bluer than usual. (Some very compelling photo evidence). This was because most of the very high altitude thin cloud is precipitated by aeroplane vapour trails.

So when us boomers remember the clear blue skies of our youth this is not nostalgia or cataracts!

PS I am not making WoP/CoD comparisons here, since I do not own WoP and feel unqualified to pontificate on it, just sticking to the CoD vs RL issue on which CoD, IMHO, does a reasonable approximation of haze (as opposed to the colours of trees, grass and London buildings where the palette needs a tweak)

I gotta be honest i liked the de-saturated part of the filter from WoP. Didnt like much else though. I think the green hue didnt make much of a difference tbh as it only seemed starkly visible on England map. The remaining maps looked great I thought.

Y'know i remember a long time back phillip you asked about this in development and I'm quite positive that you had a direct comment from Oleg saying they were working on hegrows, maybe it got scrapped for more trees.

unreasonable
Very true but there were lots more coal burning situations in homes and factories, so I think down south near the docklands and in the midlands there probably would have been considerable polution from that aspect. It would have been smog and not high level polution though. I think when the Blitz started that would have added to the polution ten fold, but i guess this game would only cover the very start of the Blitz.
Haze ingame i think is just right, the atmosphere itself and the bending of light as it comes through causes the a haze without polution, so i think its ok.

As far as the Terrain itself is concerned I prefer the colouration, and content of the FSX Horizon photo terrain, see attached. The Just Flight photo terrain is not bad but seemed a bit washed out to me in their demo.

Of course photo terrain gives you a much better idea of the population of trees and hedgrows. In CoD its too "Walt Disney", there seem to be too few hedgerows, trees too large and turning trees fully up is not much like the English countryside. England is just not populated with single trees every two hundred yards and especially not so concentrated in the suburbs apart from parks. Most roadside trees are growing among hedgerows. The OPs CoD views show the problem, where the trees are strung out along the roads they are far too regular, no hedgerows and the trees seem a bit overscale, as do the buildings (well perhaps its the way they are drawn, too highly coloured or something). It would perhaps be better to model some whole woods and some hedgerows with trees as single objects and place them along roads and across the terrain.

I don't have WoP but - quality aside - the OPs s/shot shows general layout/field and hedgegrow concentration more like it.

Compare "CoD (aka "the real Deal"?)" with WoP and you'll se the difference in tree scaling, placement and population.

Agreed. I suspect the devs have painted themselves into a corner with the way they use trees in CloD. The speedtrees look great close up, and so allows the game engine to be easily adapted to ground-based tank sims or whatever. Unfortunately, the technology doesn't seem to lend itself to making the sort of blocks of dense woodland that we have in the UK. Perhaps so many trees would hammer the frame rate. RoF's trees are nothing like as good close up (in fact, they are quite ugly), but from the air they can make very convincing dark-green forests and blocks of woodland of the sort we actually get in the UK and Northern France. At this stage in the process it's probably too late for them to make major changes to CloD, but it would have been nice if they had done a bit more research into the English countryside before producing the terrain.

And another FSX variant, somewhere near Manston for comparison:

http://sbcglobalpwp.att.net/c/t/ctec...-11-18-874.jpg

Wow, that looks absolutely nothing like where i live, lol.

nothing is right in that, from the houses, fields, field sizes, colours....

by the way, i live 2 miles from the end of manston runway.

In response, Its not photorealistic scenery. Its simply FSX and UTX combined trying recreate the area with the installed textures. I'm not even aware of an addon for that area of the UK.

Not sure exactly where that shot was taken from , I took off from Manston and was flying around for a bit. I'd guess I would be within a 50 mile radius. FSX wasnt made to depict Manston in particular. I just chose the airport and that is what was rendered. I dont think thats a bad job considering
:)

http://sbcglobalpwp.att.net/c/t/ctec...anston_sat.jpg


SRY, I tried to adjustthe angle of the image to be more in line with my previous screenshot but it became slightly blurred

[QUOTE=unreasonable;276703][QUOTE=Cobra8472;276538]Regarding Haze;

If you notice in every single photo you've posted, there is a fine light blue haze. This is air particles scattering light.

WoP has a better implementation of this than CoD. I'd actually venture and say that CoD viewdistance is too far as it is right now. Usually there is more haze.

As bigpickle has said below, there would likely be a seasonal haze. I grew up in the countryside in NZ, we had a wood burning fire (this wasnt even that long ago either) and so did everyone else. In winter there was often a heavy haze do to people burning firewood for heat, and you can see it from a plane window. England would of been much worse though because of higher density pop and the cities all would of had fireplaces, where as in the 90s there was better insulation and electrical heating.

I side with heliocon on this matter.
and i would very much like to hear some official explainations from the devs on whether the ground scenery will be improved any time soon.

[QUOTE=Heliocon;276900][QUOTE=unreasonable;276703]CoD now is rendering a sunny summer day. And as sunny summer day it is more than ok and realistic ( atmosphere and terrain colors ). All you WoP followers should wait until CoD implements storm weather and then compare that with WoP. That would be more fair if you want lots of fog and haze.

Big-Pickle: aye, I remember there being some comment regarding hedgerows, but then again, a lot of things were said in those development threads.
The team must have a massive list of features which can be added or improved, and rumours are that many features are there, but haven't been completed by the team for inclusion in the sim....(or are there, but haven't been unlocked yet)

ideally, development would be thus:
-bugs are fixed so the game is nice and smooth
-features are improved
-the team announces new features, or present features which have been drastically changed e.g a new weather system, with realistic clouds (yes Dutch! the clouds are rather poor afterall :cool: )

-once the game has been improved to a level where it is rather awesome, tools can then be sent out to the community for an administered modding effort, or a community modding effort which won't affect online play (with the banning system in place, a modding community like SAS could propser nicely).

hopefully this would enable the game to work it's way to becoming a stand-out BoB simulator.

a man can dream :cool:

It seems unrealistic to simulate lots of smoke from fireplaces for a battle that was fought in the summer.

Here are four views of Manston, two from 1940 and two from now-ish.

1) VFR 'Real Scenery'
2) GEX (Ground Environment Europe)
3) IL2
4) Cliffs of Dover

All taken at 12.30pm in mid-summer, with clear skies. :)

well the second one is rubbish beyond belief.

il2 as much as i like it isn't particularly good, kinda springish if you try hard, but works fine in il2.

the first one although ugly, is pretty good colour wise for this time of year (april/may), but rubbish for summer, ie BoB, plus wrong crops for BoB.

Clodo, if the trees were the right mix of colours (there far to light green), is actually passable, but the tress are all wrong really, and there loads of trees here in SE Kent.... I'm not really sure what the fields are supposed to represent either, but hey ho. Its a kinda generic 'fit'

with some work on the trees, it would be by far the best imo....

heres some pics i took last summer (aug) when i was working, gives you some idea of the trees.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...6082010015.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...9082010022.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...3082010010.jpg

tress will always appear darker because of the fact they cast shadow on themselves.

London in 1940 was very smoggy.. Industry didn't just stop because it was summer, and fireplaces were still lit... (I just asked my great uncle who lived in London in 1940 and watched the battle overhead)

Haze is visable in these shots from summer 1940.

http://blog.hopeglory.com/wp-content.../02/london.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/edwardpierc...on-1940-2.jpeg

http://www.museumoflondonprints.com/...n/4/129179.jpg

http://www.arts.ac.uk/alumni/images/.../berthardy.jpg

Haze over London would be realistic. Have over all of England, not so much.

disagree, England is often hazy in summer today.

compared to other countries i've lived in its something i've always noticed, especially Australia.

you can see it in the photos i've posted above from last summer, and there about as clear a day as you get.

Clod does this really well.

I agree, the GEX stuff is very poor, and cost far more than it's worth.

The VFR scenery looks terrible in Kent, but looks much better in Wales , although there're no dynamic shadows, and no buildings, grass or trees on the ground. That 'add-on' cost the same as the CoD Collector's Edtition.

The IL2 map still has those 'layered' forests and 3D trees, but of course was free.

As for colour, here's a shot I just took out of the window with my phone (note dead palm tree from the frosts of December).

The colour mix there matches quite well with CoD methinks.

Trees are the greenest now, than they'll be for the rest of the year as the leaves have just come out. They'll just get darker now, as the seasons roll on.

Its the fact that they cast shadow on themselves that makes them look darker anyway, some part is always in shadow......

Did i mention i'm a tree surgeon by the way, lol.

Fancy doing a freebie on a palm tree?!:grin:

We definitely have different standards for what is hazy, because I see virtually no haze in your photographs.

THIS is hazy:

http://aero-pix.com/qp06/tbird/images/img_014.jpg

NO, idiot, NO! :evil:

The last picture is a pub overlooking Vauxhall. The Elephant and Castle statues on the pub still exist. I lived in the Elephant and Castle which is just down the road. I used to work approximately with the same view of that picture.

Wow - same for me. NZ weather is probably the closest I have lived in vs england. Going from NZ to Melbourne was very strange as the light/heat there is much more intense.

Also as others have said it was probably a hell of alot worse then, they would of been burning alot of coal and that lets out black smoke/smog because at that time it was not filterd (correct me if I am wrong). That stuff doesnt just vanish, it gets blown/spread around. When I lived in singapore some days I wouldnt go outside because the city was so chocked with smoke from the forests being burnt in Malaysia and Indonesia (turned into cropland), you couldnt see more than a few hundred feet. Of course thats a different scale, but thats also hundreds of miles of sea and islands in between.

Gordon Bennett, yew lot are gettin in a right `ol two an eight about this visability/haze fingy.
Its clear non of yew av ever sin a right royal pea souper coz if yew ad yew would know you cant see yer brassband in front ov yer boat an thats no lie !

Now I dont wanna get into a read an write about this but CoD does look a bit sexton blake an thats for sure.

My ol nan bless er soul told me about it an she said they was down in kent hop pickin an used to watch them jerries an our boys fightin it out above em. She said you could hardly see em but the sky was full of swirly clouds in circles an sometimes you would hear an engine clear as day.

Superb!:grin:

Basically, this thrad is a "My Dick's better than yours!"

Each Sim has it's merits and failings.

Currently I am very, very impressed with Wings of Prey and the Developer's continue to improve it.......while listening to their customer feedback.

The Gaijin Studio is small, has only been running 2-years in Flight Sims and yet has produced Software for PC, PS3 and 360. They have created Two flight simulations including Apache Air Assault and this is in a very short business life-span.

Consider that to the experience and time that IL2 has had to update 1946 and then create CloD and it's not a fair comparison.

I am truly impressed with WoP and the new patch which vastly improves the FM of current aircraft.

I do know that in the future CloD will of-course be as good as IL2 1946 was, but lets also be honest and say that WoP on full Graphics settings, at 1920x1200 runs on very humble systems. I love the particle effects, water and oil on the cockpit, draw distance....it blows me away.

That is MHO, but I can't change anyones choice, I can just make mine, and for now I have CloD installed, but am only flying WoP until maybe 3-4 months down the line when CloD becomes a Gold release rather than a Beta European and Russian test for the American market!

However, I like WoP, here's why;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jEHBR1zxjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WrpnY5wkVc

and this dogfight video I made....look at the Oil effect on the Cockpit;

http://blip.tv/file/5040605

Now Gaijin are working on a new product and whether you like it or not, just look how fast that terrain is generated in the software.....amazing:

http://skydivegame.com/en

Finally I look forward to Ground Attack Missions in Wings of Prey or the upcoming Wings of Prey 2, because if you look at these effects from Apache the ground effects will be incredible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg90OIciUAc

Cheers, MP

Hello MP!

I only watched the first clip, but er, hmm.......... Your post wouldn't have anything to do with there being no P-51's in the BoB would it?!:grin:

But I still see cheap sunglasses. I also notice that the P-51 had as much trouble staying on the runway as the Blenheim in CoD.

I enjoy making little films myself, even though I'm hopeless at it, and if you want the 'period look' I see your point, but for the feel of 'being there', CoD still has my vote, simply for the sky.

Earlier on I popped out for an Indian takeaway. 8.00pm, not a cloud in the sky, low angled sun hitting the trees in Woolton Woods, I looked at the sky and the trees and thought 'Yep, Oleg got it spot on'.

It's just the midday lighting that still bothers me a bit.;)

+1

I think there's a tendancy on here to jump all over WoP almost out of self defence.

I like what Gaijin are doing, which is basically bluring the edges of sim/video game. They are getting people interested in Sims again, people who got out of PC gaming. (CFS3 killed it for me) I bought 1946 for the first time last year, because of BoP.

They make cinematic games, with simulation elements. I think they were surprised about how much critiscm they got for 'dumbing it down' and they are getting more serious about FM/DM (platform limitations excepted).

They seem passionate about flight, they also seem to be able to make money from it. I hope that they continue to grow and develop the BoP/WoP series and as a by product titles like CoD and RoF get the benefit of the people who catch the bug and want to take it further.

my friend is a tree surgeon,his name is Andy Hollyoak

Well i downloaded WoP. It looked good, and even ran maxed out on my 6 year old PC:

ath 64 3200+ @ 2.2ghz
2gb pc3200 ram
8800gts
win xp

Lowest frames was 20, highest around 50. It was fun to play, but the heinkel mission got boring. The planes always seem to go down in the same way, as in set animations. If we're talking ground gfx though, it looks superb, frankly.

+1

Speaking of wheat:

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...8C2B9698D1F52/

I see 2d sprites in a 5 year old graphics engine (purely based on the pic), but we know its england, or nz, it has sheep...:rolleyes:

the visibility is f*cked up on consoles, in fact you play in a box, compare CoD with RoF, trolls

Heliocon, you should post a WoPuke screenshot of the same sort of scene so we can compare them.

I would do it, but I removed Wings of Puke from my machine.

Very nice photos, thanks..... but except for the first one, they could not have been taken before 7th September since there are extensive areas of bomb damage.

Anyway, they do not address the question of haze since they may well have been taken on cloudy days which are the norm in the UK, due to the prevailing damp westerly airstream off the Atlantic, as we all agree.

The issue is the haze level during periods of high pressure, which is what CoD with a weather setting of "fine" and no clouds should be emulating. IMHO it is about right, but the London area should have an overlay of grey haze, fairly thin from May-October and thick and horrible in November-April.

BTW Although coal was not rationed until 1941 it was in scarce supply in London during the BoB as the LW had been sinking the coal convoys, so the power stations had first priority IIRC (not of the war, of a source ;) ). As a child in London during the 50s I can assure readers that only the richest and most extravagant would have lit coal fires during the summer months indeed until until well into October. We wore extra sweaters on chilly days.

After reading the past 28 pages (some good stuff tucked up amongst all the usual fluff, cheers guys) I can't help but wade in, sorry...

Firstly, and my apologies for singling any one poster out and at risk of breaking my own code of never typing anything that relates more to the poster than their post...but after all Mr Hayward has made up the largest percentage of posts, and they do tend to say the same thing, so: David Hayward, please please stop talking about 'puke green', 'Wings of Puke', 'puke filter' etc etc etc ad (sorry!) nauseum. It's really very tiring, and neither enjoyable nor constructive. The frequent repetition suggests this single filter is the only issue you have with the graphics in WoP, although granted there are other aspects to the game you dislike. Is this fair? If so might we now move on to some other topics? It is very apparent that nobody is arguing against you - it is a point of agreement that the green-tainted filter is neither particularly accurate nor particularly attractive. I'm sure you have more to say, and now would be a fine time to have a crack at saying it :)

Secondly...well, I was going to bash out my opinions on every topic covered in this thread, but decided life was too short :)

Thirdly, CoD is a simulator. It simulates reality. Reality is subjective, and we largely operate on 'feel' of a situation (visually, aurally, whatever) in normal life rather than abstract empiricism - and it's 'feel' that adds 'reality' to all computer games and sims. It seems a fair test of the level of success is to make a snap decision on a screenshot: s/shot of a game or photo of the real world? Not that they're par for the course, but I have seen unedited s/shots of WoP, Il-2 modded and virgin, RoF and others that all take me a moment or few to establish whether or not they are a genuine photo, photoshopped, or prerendered. I hope others have an idea of what I mean by this, and can call such images to mind?

Sadly, I haven't seen very many landscape shots of CoD that take more than a split second to label 'game'. The aircraft have the potential to look stunning, but the colours of CoD's world obviously are not right if they are causing this much..well, lets be nice and call it debate :) This is not to rubbish the game in the slightest, but to keep in focus an area for future development. Can others try the photo/game thing and see if they have such disappointing % of 'real-looking' (as in giving a genuine impression that they could be photographs on first sight) CoD landscape s'shots? I'd like to think it's not just me, but who knows :)

Screwy

Worth noting that high pressure isn't particularly good for more localised air quality/visibilty as with very little wind (associated with high pressure systems) there's nothing to clear the air. A prime example of this is the recent urban smog alerts that were out across the UK. Smoke, sea fog, pollen/dust etc etc - all tend to linger at low altitude during periods of high pressure.

Also worth noting that fires aren't just for heat. I grew up in rural Somerset, and it would be unusual for fires not to be kept in throughout the year. The haze of woodsmoke on still summer evenings being a memorable and evocative feature :) Of course there are added benefits of the warmth in winter, but hot water, laundry, cooking etc all need to be done regardless of the season! Whilst I realise this isn't particularly applicable to London, it is applicable to the rest of the map that isn't London ;) ...mind you, if the devs are worrying about getting the right levels of smoke from domestic chimneys then they'll already have done enough to get the game looking great!

Looks like I did get to opine after all :cool:

Screwy

Screwy, as soon as the constant whining about CoD from the WoPuke fanboys stops, I'll stop calling it Wings of Puke. Deal?

Maddox Games and Gaijin Studio should unite. Gaijin make good graphical engine with advanced lighting and effects, they know how to optimize and what England looks like. Maddox can then do what it does best: cockpits, damage modeling and tiny pointless detail.

For me the look and feel of CloD is the best of all flight sims, except maybe DCS A-10 at higher elevations. Some individual sims do individual details better, like RoF's clouds but not the complete package.

I agree that WoP looks like it has a puke-filter turned on. It's also too contrasty and has an annoyingly overdone vignetting effect.

If you click on the Advanced settings, you can actually switch the vignette off. Also, if you have a couple of minutes to spare, you can set a colur profile up for the game in your Graphics driver and tone the Green down, it's a users choice.

What I have found is that Gaijin do actively listen to their purchasers and, for a small studio, do try and add user suggestions to patches.

The FM was much complained about regarding the P-51, now, after patch 1.0.3.7 the aircraft handles way better and is far more accurate as are many of the others. Gaijin listen!

I'll restate "every sim has it's merits", I am currently finding that WoP Developers are actively doing their best to please the comsumers they have and include suggestions from their forums.

I find (for now) Cliffs of Dover suggestions aren't about improving the software to add more content, for instance the lack of ships, they are about fixing the current 'Gold' software so it can be released officially in America in a 'fit-for-purpose' condition.

Yes that is a dig at CloD, but if I enjoy a game (WoP), why should I have someone else tell me I am wrong and shouldn't dare even consider anything other than the child of IL2:1946. Currently, CloD is exactly that, 'a Child', however it will grow (with support) into and Adult and be, I am sure, an exceptional product, for now however, I have all the graphical effects I want in WoP, draw distance without building popping up out of no-where,improved Flight-Models, New Camera positions being added for replays, HDR lighting and most of all......FUN!!!!

It also runs on a 'normal' computer and not a Beast (which I do own!).

I can't change your mind, as I don't even consider playing RoF, it's not that I don't think it's good, I just don't want to fly in a WW1 aircraft. Again, that'll be my choice, not yours?

If you take part in a game/simulation and after sitting there you come away from it having enjoyed yourself, why is it such a big issue for anyone to say "how dare you think that it is better than this game!"

WoP is great fun and enjoyable. IL2:1946 is still on my HD as a stock 4.10.1 and alos modded with HSFX 5.01 and they will always stay there.

I have CloD installed, but due to framerate, bug issues, I have only tried it 2-3 times since installing it. I just don't find it
A) Value for money and B) FUN!

I do know though, that once you guys have spent your time fixing the bugs for 1C it will be a great game (running on all 4-Cores, using 12GB of my Ram and also in SLI), but for now.....I'm having fun with WoP and HSFX 5.01.

But guys, enjoy what you fly, just don't tell me your choice is better than mine.....it never will be, and that is in my eyes and yours!

Cheers, MP

+1

S!

Nice videos MysticPuma :) WoP or CoD..matter of taste and sometimes fun to just throw brains in the bucket and blast away ;) Give me smoothness of WoP to CoD and all is good!

+2

Nice videos indeed!
And an excellent balanced view of this thread..couldn't agree more with your sentiments MP.
I am also enjoying WOP and at the same time watching COD develop into what will be, I'm sure, an astounding title.

Don't you have sound card? :D
And you should upgrade your memory. I've got the same rig with 16MB :cool:

They used the IL2 engine that was developed by Maddox games, so where do you stand now. These lovely posts you are all making against Maddox games looking shit are ridiculous, I hope you have the decency and maturity to say you were wrong when they sort this out.

Purley for the sake of correctness... Gaijin made their own engine. They only used IL-2's FM / DM data (well, some of it!).

Kind of silly statement isn't it? Some people are saying CoD does not look realistic and would like the devs to fix it. So if the devs fix it the complainers should apologise and say, "we were wrong and the devs were right, because the devs fixed it it the end". Erm, isn't that what these people want, so if the devs do fix it they are essentially agreeing with the complainers. So to quote you... "I hope you have the decency and maturity to say you were wrong when they sort this out".

Now, somebody comparing CoD to WoP is the somebody that use batman music in a video about WWII air combat. That´s explains all. :grin::grin:

"Now, somebody comparing CoD to WoP is the somebody that use Batman music in a video about WWII air combat".

I'm not comparing, they are two different pieces of Software. My examples are describing why I like WoP and why I will one-day like CloD.

Music sets mood, that is all. I suppose I could have used Gladiator or Pirates of the Caribbean....but these would have been historically incorrect surely?

Now you compare WW2 Combat footage I created and complain it is set to Batman Music, well, it appears you are barking up the wrong tree.

The first issue of Batman was published in 1940, so using the Music from Batman could not be more appropriate, I'm sure you will agree?

Thnakyou, Game, Set and Match.....MP

So he's trying to prove that you're wrong in an unrelated question by pointing out that he doesn't like your choice of music? err...game set match MP indeed! That was an own goal! :D

Nope, you just can't read properly. I agree that this game needs fixing and quickly hence the statement that "when they sort it out".

We have heard that most of the features in this game are switched off and will be put back in as soon as performance is fixed etc. When you have idiots saying that the graphics (the be all and end all of everyone's enjoyment, yeah right) of CLOD are crap and they should employ Gajin to do them instead then any other statement that you utter
is just nonsense and should be ignored. When people talk/post crap that's how they should be treated.

@winny I was not aware to the extent of Maddox games but I thought they used the models of planes as well?

Puma did you like the high contrast type of filter in WoP? (You may have already said and i missed it, sorry if you did)
One of things i was thinking about when the SDK came out was to create (if possible) a filter set mod with different filter choices in an effort to enhance the WW2 feel.

We are in a thread dealing dealing specifically with CoD terrain graphics. My reaponse referred to the terrain and only the terrain, not the entire sim.

WOP has really great object placement, that's what makes the terrain look so natural.

Someone at Gaijin looked at a photo of S England and placed the available objects just the same way. Even on a small map it must have taken quite a long time. Its the closest 3D representation of how the trees and buildings are placed in the English countryside that I've seen in any sim.

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/z...0110143211.jpg

What exactly do you not like about the terrain that is done in another sim? If it is the terrain colour then we all know about that, so to does Oleg. See here;

If it's not the terrain colour then you must be on about the graphic engine which in my eyes is the best terrain we have seen modelled in a sim to this day. Of course this is in full settings that not many people can use(including myself, damned 4870x2) but as the game is polished more and more people will be able to switch these things on. Look at the pictures in the first post and tell me the other sims model the ground better, I just will not agree

I agree with Oleg. I think its very difficult for a sim to have natural looking terrain colurs through the whole range of changing light levels.

In all sims with saturation and gamma adjustment available I tend to find when morning and evening looks good mid day looks washed out. Mid day looks OK then morning looks too saturated.

Different terrain colours for high and low light levels are the way forward.