lol, It's not like any of those games take full advantages of the DX11 capabilities, Crysis was arguable a breakthrough when it came to dx10, however as it turned out it was all possible in DX9 as well, even if DX10 boosted the performance.

DX11 will grow with time.

I have only an upstream that low. But for lots of players the downstream has to be high not the upstream.

What? Have you ever programmed in DX before? Because what you're saying makes no sense.

It makes sense to people who know about how the engines function. So I dont have to type it all out (and as while I have modeling experience in Maya, I have only done basic programming), why not use google?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2716/8

Simply put in general, DX10 was a new pipeline/system that people had to learn but gave little-no benefits. DX11 is a upgraded version but its far more efficient, has far better features and is easier to work with/program. In fact DX10 originally was meant to be what is now DX11 but I believe they released it early to coinside with Vista.

Sorry should have selected only the text that I was referring too.

I code for a living but program in DX as a side hobby, and in terms of difficulty, the changes I've had to do to my code was minimal.

I can understand it being difficult for full blown development teams to modify an existing graphics engine or create an entirely new one but that is more of a man power / cost issue. If you structure your code properly from the start, the API calls you make from your code should be invisible to the operating system, i.e. I write a function to pixel on the screen, my code doesn't care what DX version is installed on the PC or what DX version the graphics card can use, the code automatically calls the appropriate DLLs to draw that pixel.

I see that the recommended system specs for Rise of Flight are, for the CPU:

Intel® Core™ Quad 3 GHz or Intel i7 3 GHz


These are higher than the recommended CoD CPU specs which are:

Intel Core i5 2.66GHz or AMD Phenom II X4 2.6GHz

I am no expert, but how/why is this? ROF is an older game (albeit not that old), so shouldn't it be less demanding? Or is it testament to the coding skill of Oleg and team that they have managed to get more from less? Or is there simply more detail in ROF?

PPanPan

what about Ati 5970 and in general Crossfire and SLI support ?

No word on multi gpu setups yet :(

Oleg said along time ago that Multi GPU's will be supportd. :)

Wasnt here by that time then,thanks!!

From now on, every old feature Oleg mentioned at some point in the past that Tree_UK brings up to stir up drama, will be instantly removed from the game.

:grin::grin::grin::grin: I like this man ;)

Seriously, is there going to be multi gpu support?A lot of us have asked but no answer.

I think this reflects Oleg's policy of making the game usable on a wider range of PCs, and thus available to a larger number of users. That's good marketing sense and also suggests to me that the coding is good.

Hopefully Tree won't utter another word then or we'll be left with a grass simulator....

Or "Clouds over Dover" - no, that was the other guy.

I will pray for Tree_UK don´t whine about the planes or the colour of the sky...:-)
"What? He is whining again? Remove the planes.Don´t forget to remove the sky too.
This guy needs a lesson!":grin:

Im sorry Luthier, I am not trying to create drama, I was just answering the mans question, all we can go on is what we have been told in the past, if this has all changed then fair enough, all you have to do is just tell us.

I wasn't whinning about anything, honestly i just answered the guys question about multi GPU support, Oleg had said along time ago that they would be supported, I wasnt trying to create a drama, I obviously have no idea if multi GPU support has now changed or not.

Please forgive me man.I shouldn't make fun with you.
Probably you are a good guy, It's just that you are so pessimistic sometimes that you are now part of the folklore of this forum (in a good way).;)

Im pretty sure Luthier's post was just a joke right?...wheres the drama?
Though would be good to know from Luthier or Oleg if multi GPUs are supported in COD.

can i use a joystick or is it just keys? or multi... keys :)

Incase COD will really run fine at high qualitiy settings (which ROF does with a system that fits th recommended specs), then yes.

The flightmodels and damagemodels eat up the most from the CPU in ROF. Also they upgraded ROF graphics engine quite abit last year, it looks really good now. And before they upgraded the graphics engine, the recommended system specs were a bit lower.

Let's wait two months, then we can see if CoD is really that optimized that it will run well with a system close to the recommended specs.

LOL
made my day thanks, and thanks for the not surprising list of specs.

BS.
this is worse then your trolling. Your a pain in the ass in every subject.

The thing is that my question has not been answered, and some are waiting for this too.A lot of people have and will invest in sli and crossfire for this game,it would be sad if they are not supported.

Agreed and waiting myself.

I also am waiting for an answer, then rapidly away from my 2x5870 :confused:

There might not be a toggle switch within the game itself, it may be that you activate it through the driver profile the same way you do with Il2.

I certainly don't agree with Tree_UK in most instants, but his was a very valid statement. I seem to recall Oleg stating that there would be multi-gpu support. If we are mistaken then just say, that it was never intended to be implemented or do to time restraints we weren't able to accomplish it. BUT I totally understand your frustration is Tree's constant drone of negativity.

Well there is a fine line between being skeptical and critical vs cynical and whining. I think we need more of the first, which I do think Tree provides, as well as others (although not all the time, but its the internet and depending on your POV it comes accross differently to people because its just letters and lacks context to a degree).

But I think now that many features and core mechanics we believed would be in the game have been dumped, the lack of communication, the poor quality of the previews all combine to create an atmosphere of well founded skepticism at the current time.

I much prefer a developer who keeps us up to date on atleast some aspects as opposed to one that doesn't say anything at all. If your going to follow a development you have to be prepared for setbacks and features that don't make the initial release. Even the developer has no idea if a feature will make the release until they have to make the decision to go gold or not. Just because a feature doesn't make the initial release doesn't mean it has been dumped. Unfortunately the developer is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with being skeptical or being constructively critical, its just the some are constantly sticking the knife in every chance they get, even when it wasn't warranted in the first place.

Maybe I can answer with the same sense of smug self-assuredness? On second thoughts, maybe not. Let me offer an English folk-saying instead. You are making mountains out of molehills. Worse still, I can't help thinking you are doing it because it suits some sort of personal agenda of your own that has little to do with the success or failure of this new game.

Well, my worst fear over the last five years since the 2006 release just vanished into thin air with very little information has been that this game would never be released. As the time passed I got more and more scared that we would just one day read that Oleg and Maddox Game had quit the project as they where out of funds and "had run into technical problems doing the game they wanted to do".

Just the fact that it WILL be released is more than good enough for me, and the latest screenshots and information looks like what I had hoped for in my "best scenario". That we don't get Dx11 and some patches of grass may look a bit too green/yellow/violet/x mean diddly to me... Even if CoD would just be the same old unbeatable IL2 game with these high poly models, cockpits and high res skins it would be just fine and well worth $50 (which is in no way what we will get as seen in the movies/screens). Damn, I sound like a fan boy - and yes I'm proud of that!

How about min resolution? I have problems with RoF, because my laptop can display max 1280x800..

No, you just come off as an ass who is being insulting for the sake of it.
My agenda? Well maybe you can be forgiven because your a dumb-ass...

We have had very little info and communication from the dev team other than occasional bad quality photos. Some of them have been great showing the details of the plane, new models etc. But its lacked any solid info, context or details. Pictures are nice, but they are just pictures.

If the dev team said the game would be dx11 and then explained that due to issues it would not be on release, but it was being worked on etc; that would be fine and I would have no problem with it. But if they say something is in, then never change their stance until near release time and dont offer any substantial community -> dev dialogue then thats not great management. The world wont end, but it is irritating. I have been in alot of betas, followed many games from early stages to release, some good, many bad. One of the bad signs is when the community doesnt know whats happening because the devs dont communicate effectivly. That includes not only communication but lack of communication (ie: not saying the engine will be 2013 quality/will blow our minds away/is so incredible all they are doing is downgrading it etc.) That builds false expectations. They need to be realistic and honest, that includes saying: "Hey we are trying or looking at implementing feature x in the game, we dont know if it will make the release date but its on the table."
Or: "The reason there is no AA in the screenshots is xyz"

Seriously... Also will there be a beta? Seperately because they have different purposes will there be a demo of any kind?

I think you should have done more reading and many of your questions about the sim would have be answered. You can't go back now and filter your way thru all the threads but the information was there if you follow the project. The small developer team doesn't have the manpower to make sure the occasional visitor stays informed. Although it isn't hard to do a search on all Oleg's and Luther's posts.

Regarding the beta, which was obviously inhouse, unless there are people here doing it now without saying so.

There will be no demo. They had a demo in IL-2 only because there was a period of time from when the game was finished and the publishers release to build it. That won't be the case with COD.

Thinks like Clouds and Weather systems are still be worked on, but they are unsure wether it will be in the intial release.

I think what we really need is the Microsoft marketing model where the developers are not allowed to talk about anything, ever, at all and what the public are allowed to see are pretty CGI video clips full of spin and marketing hype designed by a marketing team that have no connection with the real game at all :D

I didn't see a ATi 6850 card listed as supported. Crud this looks like a nice, solid, mid price range card that I had in mind getting to upgrade from my 4850.

Oleg understated the IL-2 friday updates back in the day too. I was there, at the bluebyte forums. Only some meh meh screenshots every week and then when the game was released it was all like "oh! sh*t! did you see that?" and "WOW! he never said anything about this feature".

Oleg is a genius in understating and I think the end product will make your head explode.:)

I don't understand the question about multi GPUs.

Of course they are supported! How can they be not?

Whether they offer any performance advantage is a different question, to which I don't have an answer at this time.

+1

All coding required by a developer to support multi GPU:s should be as weird as producing code that has "raid disk support" ;) It's the work of the hardware manufacturers to deliver drivers that abstracts that without required additional coding, as opposed to multiple CPU:s. But I guess Intel and the companies delivering compilers puts as much thought into abstracting the multi core CPU layer as the nuclear scientists put into cold fusion as it would truly be the future :)

Woah. Can anyone translate?! ;)

A word of warning for anyone currently thinking about getting a Sandybridge CPU, Intel have announced a recall due to a faulty support chip, called Cougar Point. This affects the running of sata dvd drives and hard disk , they are addressing the issue and new motherboards will be annouced soon.

Thats the whole point if there is no performance advantage why would anyone use it?But thanks for your answer,I appreciate it.

Probably people going for the multi-monitor route.

Thats a big waste of performance and more if you are running at resolutions higher than 1920x1080 such as those from more than one monitor setups.

I think he was getting at there being no performance increase when you have a single monitor setup at a reasonable resolution, as opposed to a dual monitor setup and huge resolution.

This is what I'm guessing (reaching at) from his comment and common sense (I hope). If there is no performance increase when doing more than one monitor or huge resolutions then they must have really done something wrong when coding this mother.

I dont think he was referring to multi-monitor setups at all.Only multi-gpu performance(sli and crossfire)sort of answering my question but not completely.We'll just have to wait, I hope the game would benefit from 2 gpus otherwise Ill be very sad.

Its a strange response from Luthier, multi GPU's being supported does not mean that there will be a toggle switch in setup options for dual video cards, I guess he's saying that yes 2/3 cards will work but the game as not been coded to take advantage of them, but then again Il2 was the same but you could force SLI (nvidia) through the driver settings. Why we cannot get a straight answer on this though is anyone's guess. :confused:

http://www.geforce.com/#/Hardware/Technologies/SLI/faq


???

In IL2 there is a switch in the conf.ini file where you can select cores.
I leave at the default, but it is available.

Yes, I have a quad processor too.

Have confidence in the developer. The processor cores and multi-threading is not going away for awhile. You can expect the ability will be available to those who want to more specifically manage their hardware.

Especially, with dx11 on the near horizon there will be alot more to the COD configuration than the 10 year old IL2.

Yes it appears that way Swiss, if its not known that dual cards make any difference to how the game performs then I would imagine that Cliff Of Dover falls into the the typically older generation applications.


"Applications which tax the GPU will see tremendous performance improvements of up to 2x with SLI technology when using two graphics cards. Most of today's hottest games and as well as next-generation games fall into this category. However, some applications, typically older generation applications, are limited by factors other than the GPU's processing power"

Thats true Nearmess, but there wasn't any switch for multi GPU's which is what is being discussed. However you could force SLI through the driver or 3rd party programs such as nHancer which did increase performance, it seems this may be the same for Cliffs of Dover, however we currently have no idea if it will increase perforamce. Worth noting though for anyone about to splash out on two high end GPU cards.

Not at all.

This is a simulation not a typical Call of Duty type game. It doesn't matter how "new" an application is if it has to calculate complex damage modelling instead of hit boxes/hit points, Flight modeling instead of up/down/left/right, Artificial Intelligence instead of scripted movements, and large sandbox maps instead of corridors.

Point being that, much like other newer sims like ArmA2, you can't expect the GPU to do all these calculations no matter how much you might wish it to much like you can't expect your shiny new 2000dpi mouse to make your game run any faster. It's the CPU's job, not Oleg's.

Feel free to pile on more AA + AF or screen resolution though and be happy for that.

I've just posted this at SimHQ too, but here goes: SLI-Crossfire performance is entirely dependent on driver implementation. It is not coded for within the software itself. I expect Tree to argue with me, but the truth is, as usual, he's wrong, and does not understand how it works.

sigh.... what your saying is that you have never seen in any other title an option for using dual cards, well you are wrong on that my friend.

You don't understand the difference between choosing to allow Physx support and running SLI.

Yes, I missed that about multi-gpu. I really haven't thought much about SLI or crossfire, since my last system build. I realized at that time there really wasn't much performance difference between SLI and a good single card. I concluded it was just more heat and problems than I wanted to deal with for my evening ventures into IL2 land. (10 yr old sim)

I understand, the SLI and crossfire have developed a great deal in the past 2 years. I think planning for the future makes sense, but I will still want to wait until I have good familiarity with the BOB COD. I believe patience pays, especially when taking on improved technologies.

However, the more I think on this I think it is less an issue for BOB developers as it is for the processor/VC manufacturers.

Of course I do, you enable physics within the driver, you can select one card to handle this alone. However most modern titles such as Call Of Duty Worl at war allow you to select dual cards within the setup without having to go into the driver, for SLI that is. You may not choose to use this option because you may want to use one card to handle the physics, but the option is within the game non the less.

As said on SimHQ, look up r_gpusync. You really don't know what you're talking about.

You can only select which cpu core you want it to run on. Big deal.



He can't hear you.

your not listening to what Im saying novotny, you said over at simhg, that no games have an option to select dual cards within the setup. Well some games do.

And you implied without that that misterious option, SLI is unvailable.

No i didnt re-read my earlier post (below) I stated that you will be able to use the driver software or third party software such as nHancer (nvidia only) to setup SLI, just like you could in Il2 which showed a performance increase with dual cards. However what we dont know is what the benefit of this will be in 'Cliffs of dover' because like luthier as stated they dont know whether this will show a performance increase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree_UK (Post 219339) Thats true Nearmess, but there wasn't any switch for multi GPU's which is what is being discussed. However you could force SLI through the driver or 3rd party programs such as nHancer which did increase performance, it seems this may be the same for Cliffs of Dover, however we currently have no idea if it will increase perforamce. Worth noting though for anyone about to splash out on two high end GPU cards.

Currently Rise of Flight does not support multi gpu setups, and it is something that the developers need to do and they already stated that way, they are working on it.I just dont want this to happen with Cliffs of Dover. But there's no need to create an endless discussion about this, we asked, Luthier already said something, now we wait and see.And having a cpu intensive game in no way means that adding a second gpu wont increase performance, obviously it wont be a 80-100% increase as in other games but something like a 30-50% increase should happen.Then again we just need to wait, I am just happy that the game is coming out and I dont even know how its gonna run to begin with,so no more complaints from me concerning this.

I'll wait the release.I need to know if we will have any gains(noticeable gains,in fact)
AND if COD deals OK with SLI without microstutters to justify the extra expense with another GTX 580.

im considering eating a vegetable at the moment, 3 guesses to what it is or it gets it

So I'm confussed....do the developers write their game code to take advantage of SLI/Crossfire or does the GPU company write drivers to enhance each particular game to run with multi/gpus. Or do the developer and graphics companies work together on this. We know that the COD developer had contact with Nvidia, but not AMD.

I find Luthier's statements provide very little insight to this question. It certainly sounds like his evasive answer suggests there will be no advantage to using SLI or Crossfire.

I've been doing a bit of research and there is still more focus on using single cards than sli/crossfire for gaming, i.e.,tom's hardware and others.

Then of course I may be biased, since I use an 8800 GTS 512MB card. I built the system 2 years ago. I'm thinking I'm a go with BOB COD (no changes needed)

I'm definitely not going to sweat it in the meantime. I'm going to hold off the panic buttons until I've installed and used the BOB COD for couple weeks at least.

Did you read any of this thread?

Take it easy,,, this is just a discussion forums. Overlook things you can condesend you'll make more friends.

Good advice for life in general.

Yes and there are alot contradictory statements posted here.

Briefly: Ilya can't answer that question because it is not his area of responsibility - his team writes the rendering code, which ostensibly is produced for either ATI, nvidia or any card manufacturer whose hardware supports the DirectX APIs; they have tested with some popular cards. I say 'ostensibly' because both nvidia and ATI sometimes hand over lots of cash to influence a team to code in a particular way that suits their solution best; we don't know if either the red or green team are 'helping' in this way, though I'd guess neither are.

Multiple card set-ups are controlled at the driver level, and theoretically there should be good scaling, however the proof will be in the pudding.

I'd really advise against buying anything until we have some benchmarks in hand.

Well im getting a Nvidia 580 in 2 weeks time and i cant see that card in the specs...should i be worried?...it should be fine i expect...but it did make me blink :)

You should be alright Furbs, your in a better position than those who've splashed out on dual cards. Its just another Cliffs of Dover riddle as to whether SLI/Crossfire will work.:grin:

Luthier, evasive? Nahhh. :grin:

let's play some "if - then"

Question: Will CoD gain from a SLI/xfire setup?
Luthier:yes

> next Q: more fps for Sli or xfire?
Now L is screwed double:
1st: he doesn't have the benchmarks for all possible combos.
2nd: he would recommend one brand over the other. Earlier he said there will be NO difference.
- User A gets better results with the expected inferior setup than user B with L's recommend system: Whining.


> how much gain of fps can I expect?
Whatever number he gives you is pure guessing as you don't know his exact setup.
- Ppl can't reproduce the numbers: Whining, lier, bastard, we need tar an feathers...


Ergo: He's well advised to STFU, something he probably learned in this forum.

My goodness, we love to complicate things around here..... There are very few games that show significant performance increases with multi-core (or multi) GPU's at standard resolutions. It's probably not worth buying multiple cards or a multi-core card for anyone who is not running either multiple monitors or a very large monitor at very high resolution, that's all Luthier was saying. If you have a setup like this it will work, but you might not get a massive return for your buck. Simples.

Edit: and what Swiss said.......

Its not a deal breaker because you dont have such setup.I understand that not everyone has more than one gpu but setups like that have been increasing a lot and every year more and more games take advantage of it.I almost double my frames per second in almost all of my games when I bought my second card for less than half the price of what the first was.Plus there are a lot of people running multi monitor setups and at resolutions higher than 1920x1200 a second gpu is a must.This is something that should not be left out.I dont care about dx11 I know great graphics can be achieved with dx10 but not having a performance gain with sli or crossfire would be sad if there isnt.This is my first and only complaint so far,it even isnt a complaint is just that im concerned with the situation and not being sure.As I said before there's nothing left but waiting.Maybe the game runs perfectly with just one gpu, lets hope for that.

Are you serious????What are you playing super mario 64????Read my post above and if you dont believe me then go and check some benchmarks or search for videos on the web.1920x1080 is the standard resolution right now and having the benefit of a second gpu can make the difference between barely playable and really enjoyable.I know this for a fact as I have experienced it and others with similar setups would tell you the same.

Have you had problems with that CF setup?People seem to ditch CF because of driver problems.And no Im not presuming you are, just asking.Im going to stop posting about the subject as its clear that we are not getting to any agreement on it.So for the sake of the thread Im not gonna post anything related to it.

Et voilà. If they need SLI anyway, why does the fps increase matter so much?
The second card is there either way.
Wait. Benchmark. Share results.

No problem,lets just wait and see.

i really pray for no glitches while using nvidia 3d vision ingame...
i managed to enable 3d on current il-2. 3d cockpit is awesome, distance from enemy aircraft senses more realistic... but this doubling crosshair of colimmator looks terrible.
hope maddox team now set correct distance of all and any elements of ingame environment.

Everything is supported, but testing of advantage from SLI we don't plan. It will work anyway.

Stereo with glasses in most cases is the task of the card manufacturer and especially their drivers.
I know that some modern features of different 3D engines are not polished in 3D glasses drivers. There is some time problems with various of occlusion, SSD, multiple shadows, etc

Just several days ago we was need to switch off some advanced graphics features that to make product running well in a stereo mode with LCD glasses.

So we "normals" have to suffer under the 3D stuff in a way?

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...9/m/5151024809


"IL2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover requires a onetime online activation, using the Tages system you will receive 5 activations and a new install every month."


When I install it on my machine, then upgrade it totally with OS reinstall, will I be able to install it again without problems?
I'm heavily confused by the part in bold letters.

Tages system .... http://www.tagesprotection.com/main.htm .... good greif.

No dynamic campaign? That's not good to hear :(

Are we going to be in a WoP style campaign where a mission has to be completed to advance to the next one or will there be branches?

Oleg,
Can you tell us if Your new sim will take advantage of more than 1 gig ( recommended) of video ram?
thanks,
Flyby out

+10000000!

Interesting read, but I couldn't find an answer to my question, unfortunately.
Thx anyways.

If you have played the original scripted campaign in Il2 there is a switch where you can turn on/off "Mission success" or something.

I dont think they develop a full blown simulator and throws in a arcade "kill 10 bombers before next level!!!" feature.

Its just common sense. Dont panic.

If I remember it correctly that "Mission Success" switch wasn't in the game until after some updates because I remember not being able to finish a campaign mission and had to do it over and over again. I actually didn't finish the russian campaign because of that.

No , me neither , but dont worry, just as long as you pay for the game you can then spend weeks on end grinding your teeth over the complicated security system will keep reminding you every time you try to play off line that although you dont have to be online to play , your game will terminate if you dont go online , ubi will say that we did warn you with our statement.....

"IL2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover requires a onetime online activation, using the Tages system you will receive 5 activations and a new install every month."
........ which dosnt make any sense but oh well ..... dont forget to pay!