Off topic, but brilliant gun cam videos in your sig

+1 internets for you, sir.

I agree with this. If people don't like headshake they can turn it off in their realism options and it has already been toned down once during the patching process. Why does everything have to be so uniform?

I think there's a trend developing where people don't just want options to turn off difficulty settings, they want to make their preferences the default version of things for everyone, so that they can have their preferred settings and still be able to join the well populated servers which, most of the time, run full switch or at high difficulty levels. It seems a bit too much of "have my cake and eat it too".

There are options in the sim, so i suggest everyone uses them to get the difficulty level where they want to for themselves and let the rest of us masochists carry on doing things our way as well.

I don't know how realistic the headshake is, it probably isn't, but it's useful for the reasons described in the above quote. Having no tactile feedback about what the aircraft is doing is equally unrealistic and a long-time trick in simulation is to use visual effects in place of the real-world tactile ones.

I suggest people ask for options to turn off stuff that annoys them, instead of pushing for a blanket change all across the board. Otherwise i might just start campaigning for something equally silly on the other end of the spectrum, having complex CEM, temp effects and anthropomorphic controls enabled by default for everyone. :-P

You're confusing my request for realism with a request for my preference. My preferences are my own - I select whatever I like in the options menu, that's not relevant to this discussion. But since this is a sim, I relate my real world experience of standing next to 20mm cannon firing on a moving platform (and friends' experience of aircraft mounted cannon), as well my as real world experience of aircraft. Yes, the moving platform was a ship, and no I don't fly Spitfires. Nonetheless, the laws of physics do translate from platform to platform. WW2 cannon did not magically have more recoil somehow (F=ma, m1v1=m2v2 still being somewhat true, quantum physics aside), and sitting directly on top of two modern 30mm cannon is still applicable, IMHO.

The bottom line is that headshake is a realistic aspect, but I disagree with how it's been done based on real world experience. It's just my opinion, based on related experiences. I'm not sucking it out of my thumb, nor do I care about servers using 'full switch'. It unrealistically degrades my ability to aim in this attempt to simulate reality, but there are aspects of it which are realistic. Note the italics. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater by turning it off. If you want tactile feedback, buy a FFB stick.

Ah, that's a well articulated explanation and i don't disagree with what you say there. I wasn't referring directly to you in any case, just making an observation about a general trend in the forums when things get debated: too many people have an all or nothing approach lately, when it's better for everyone if we just have options to turn things on/off at our own discretion ;)

As for the head shake, i too agree it's overdone in some cases. I've been a flak gunner during my conscript service (dual 20mm rheinmetals) and while the guns shake like hell when viewed from afar you don't really feel much when you're sitting on the aimer's seat because all the recoil is absorbed by the mount assembly and recoil spring.


But like you say, i wouldn't want it to completely disappear because it provides a way to transfer feedback to the player that is otherwise unavailable for many people. I think the consensus then would be that we don't need to get rid of head shake completely, but replace some of the shake used for gunfire effects with a milder vibration/blur effect?

I think the rest of it that occurs with maneuvers is sufficiently toned down after one of the patches, it doesn't feel like you're slamming your head against the canopy during maneuvers anymore, it just gives a visual indication about the amount of Gs being pulled.

Whilst being bored in the cruise today I thought of a possible option - headshake on/off, as we have now, but then a slider for the degree, ie the 'switch' on or off for full switch, but the slider for personal preference. That way, everyones happy. Minium levels of shake for basic requirement for realism (for hardcore server settings), more feedback for those who like it, less for those who don't.

Please note: I have no hope of this actually happening, it's just wishful thinking :)

Heaven forbid you discount any real pilot's account in any way! How dare you!

...you know, those now complaining about excessive shaking are the same ones that used to complain about "lazer" tracer rounds and demanded they should be more "curly" as seen on WWII guncam videos. Go figure :rolleyes:

There certainly was a reason that certain planes were described as "stable gun platform" in the 1946 a/c guide...