Well, from a balance standpoint, it sort of seems to me you're screwed when you're trying to balance a side that built heavy bombers against a side that just didn't. If you really want to balance bomber vrs bomber missions then you really have to limit the Allies to medium bombers, just the A-10 and B-25, etc, and even there, the Germans really stopped seriously developing bombers after around 1941-42.

My thought would be, bring in the B-25, have it unlock with the B-17, and then limit heavy bombers to asymmetric scenarios built to handle them.

No you're missing the point, its about getting it RIGHT, not shifting stuff to suit niceties... either your a company who makes realistic era flight sims, or your a company that slack off and cant be bothered to get it right. the admins have proved they recognise their mistakes and want to get them right. so balancing ruins games, nerfing things because it might be DIFFICULT for others...

if you take up an emil or spit mk II against a B-17 you're GOING to LOSE! it would have lost then it SHOULD lose now, which is why funnily enough Emils and Spitfires didnt get sent up against B-17s, 262s 163's Gustakvs, K-10s, FW 190s got sent up against them.

if you want to use an Emil or spit mk II, set the server to pre-41 planes only.

but dont nerf other planes e.g. 1945 planes, because you dont stand a chance in your 1940's plane.

nice idea apart from the fact that AGAIN one team shouldnt have something because the other team doesnt have the SAME... also last time i checked you could fly any nationality plane, so if one team has a B17, and the othe team cares, THEY can take a B-17.

and if u are playing one team allies one team axis (which would be cool) that is why the axis get the Arado, the 262, and the 163. 4 jet aircraft to the allies 0 jet aircraft (oh theres also the He-16something)

so the axis get interceptors and a JET BOMBER, and the allies get the B-17. but all of that doesnt matter when ANYONE can fly ANYTHING. so balancing again does NOT count as a valid reason to RUIN a perfectly good plane.

I do agree, I adored IL2 on the PC's authenticity, and share most people's grievances on this forum that Birds of Prey needs to move more in that direction. I say beef up the fortresses, give me R4M's for the 262 and let's have at it. I believe 6 B-17's falling to me in an Emil is somewhat ridiculous, as I was only flying it to unlock the H-3 and wasn't expecting it to be in any way effective against late war aircraft.

The last thing I'd want to see is Birds of Prey go down the, dare I say it, Halo 3 route. I remember playing that and realising that everything, the big walking machine, the alien tank, the Hunter aliens, they all have "weak spots" presumably to balance the multiplayer, which is something I loathe.

I'm sorry if this has gone somewhat off topic, and I'm also sorry i just admitted I used to play Halo, the shame...

I take it your refering to my previous post, if not the point still stands anyway, Cannon shells would do more damage regardless of age.

which is why funnily enough Emils and Spitfires didnt get sent up against B-17s

there were incidents of b-17s being captured and being flown against their previous owners.

you're quit right Wolfhound was the first B-17 captured repaired and flown by the Luftwaffe. strangely looks quite cool in german paintscheme.

and yes cannon shells should do more damage, BUT the B-17 is weak as tin foil. and the control surfaces (as Kirill mentioned) could take ALOT more pounding, yes a cannon round rattling around in an engine should do serious damage, but taking out 1 engine doesnt = explode.

but id love to hear an example where a spitfire MkII went up against a german captured B-17 or Do-200 as they called it.

some1 find a pic of a b17 with the german paint

a head on attack on a b17 only needed about 3-5 hits to destroy it and about 20 when attacking from the rear.

im now frantically racking my brain to remember where i read about the spitfire, im sure its not a figment of my imagination.....bah what was the book!

Here you go. Thanks to vulcan for the link :D