Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - IL2 and Sound Modding

Official Fulqrum Publishing forum (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/index.php)

- IL-2 Sturmovik (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=98)

- - IL2 and Sound Modding (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=2300)

I'm not even an onliner. I have not played online in years. I'm an offliner, and I understand better than anyone the progressive offliner frustration about the way the development took since AEP.

My gripes about the hack/mod of the game are mainly three:

1) Solidarity with the online community who may be completely destroyed if those hacks ever gets to be a common and widespread tool for cheaters -I don't mean honest users of the mods, I mean real cheaters that aren't surely here but will sooner or later take any chance to spoil the fun for others. We all know that kind of person/kid exists.

2) Real concerns about HOW it was hacked, and the legitimacy of anything done against the will or without the consent of the right owners. Really. And for your information, no, I'm not an hypocrite: I don't have any illegal download of music or films, not any other similar thing. I paid for everything I have (Which doesn't mean I agree with the legal system concerning intellectual property -but I obey it). For me, it having not the official blessings, is a no-no. And I say it being in another game's mod team myself. 'Europa Barbarorum' for RTW anyone? But that game has been freely modable from the start -with explicit permission from the developers- and different mods are incompatible online.

3) Serious doubts about the consistency, quality and compatibility in the long term of the plethora of mods that will eventually be made, making really hard to distinguish the ones that are really good from the zillion of weird tweaks and half-assed projects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robtek (Post 30465)

sparty, chris,

nobody told you that you have to follow this thread.
if you dont like it, dont read it.
if you dont contribute bore someone else.
we are having fun here.
robtek

Possibly so mate, but the records stuck, people are going over the same topic time and time again without actually getting anywere.
I was under the impression this was a forum to discuss 1C's present and upcoming games.

I accept that IL2 has been hacked/modded (depending on your point of view), but regardless of whats been said that will not be changed and more stuff will keep coming out to change the game.
However, there are two distinct camps here and I think they will never agree, or even agree to disagree so it may be time to close up shop and move onto a new topic.

As for the bore someone else, this is what the thread and some of the postee's are doing without my help, never mind.

Christmas season cease fire .... can we do it?

http://sierratoysoldier.com.mytempwe...M007-01(L).jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy_ (Post 30398)

Look, you can talk drivel like that at your boards.I recommend going back to your hole.Evgeny is the boss here,so bite me.

Sorry, we will not stop informing about what has happened and what meaning it has for the il2 community.This serves as information for those willing to have it all explained.We are the counterbalance for those fogging the facts to get their way relevant.It takes about half an hour daily to counter posts like yours so it`s not much of a problem.

Yeah great, you had to let your own opoinion get in the way.As a result you opened Ubi forums for promotion of the mods with are AGAINST the developper.Get your facts straight, dude.You totally scewed it back there, now maybe you can refrain yourself from trolling here.

Well no.Those people are trying to twist anything to make the mods look good.Some guy who only just bought the game thinks he can do mods because it is ok.Well no, it is not okay,it is against Oleg Maddox and he should be informed about that aswell as the past and future consequences.Next thing is his choice on whether he wants to go deeper or not.

Evgeny did not say what he thinks about our work.He can always ask Oleg.
If Oleg Maddox says he doesn`t care/mind about the mods then the issue disappears alltoghether.
Meanwhile, nothing here has been posted about that, so you just go back to promoting so called mods on your forum while we can do our decent job here.

You think you deserve to be a mod?heh

Where have I promoted mods on UBI? You show me with a quote where I promoted mods at UBI? You can't find one because I never promoted mods.. so you get your facts straight bub. Show me where mods are "promoted" at UBI? Discussed.. yeah I did allow discussion.. to NOT do so is stupid. You can talk all the horsesmack you want to.. in the end the facts are still the same.. and I really don't care what you or anyone thinks of me or what I do at UBI.. this isn't UBI and it kills me that on more than one site I get told that "this isn't UBI man...." and "These aren't "your" boards.... LMAO... as if I had my own boards.. NEWSFLASH UBI isn't my boards.. I just moderate there... It is so funny to me that I am catching flak from both sides of the fence on this issue so AFAIC I must be hitting some chords. You can inform people without all the name calling and immaturity.. well maybe you can't but it can be done... I have seen people in this thread who have not changed their stance on the subject but have toned down the hostile rhetoric.... which is all I am saying.

Quote:

Exactly....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfish (Post 30423)

This is very simple....
The modders/hackers placed the sim at risk and continue to do so....So yes, it has happened YET is made worse by continued efforts....Yet no matter how much griping, statements of "tough get over it" and etc. are made.....Most will not, and why should they forgive the wrong that continues to be heaped upon......So what makes you think that those especially making the hacks, yet also those who support and push for them.........Will EVER be welcomed by those who support the sim and Maddox Games hard work (that including 3rd party "official" work).

We have no reason to, the hackers keep compounding their transgressions doing nothing to resolve the situation to any degree.
K2

And this continuous back and forth by both sides does.... what.. to help the situation...?!! Oh yeah... we got some real resolution coming with all this banter right??!! So ... these guys are just supposed to say... oops we made a baddie... and put it back as it was? COME ON!!!! Humpty is off the wall..... at least if there was some kind of dialog other than the same cr@p back and forth then perhaps some kind of resolution in the form of an enhanced CRT or punkbuster type app... or something could be produced.... but this back and forth same old $hit over and over and over does absolutely NOTHING.... That is all I am saying....

I am not saying OK the deed is done everybody modup and get on the bandwagon.... h@ll I have been to their site.. and y'know what... some of those mods DO offer some things that folks have wanted for a long time.... That is a fact. I have chosen to not use any of them because of the bottom line as to how they were done and I want to see what 1C is going to do.... and yeah.. before anyone quotes Oleg again.. I know what he said.... and I know what Ivan said.... but I am still waiting to hear from Oleg... and I mean more than the two comments I have seen on the issue this far..

Quote:

First off all, that to make new check for that we need simply to rewrite too many things, icluding even file structure. It is simply impossible to make such a great job when we are totally busy with BoB...
I can't promise now... but my guys in research what is possible by minimal human/month busy schedule...
Say "Thanks" guys who did it... and who do not understand what they did for online community...
Oleg Maddox

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox (Post 29844)

I personally hate any hack that may damage fair online gameplay.

So that's what I am waiting for..... At least Kelly is coming up with facts and points..... but some of you are just rehashing and rehashing the same old name calling and BS.... and then some of the pro mod folks come over here and just post.. and they get lambasted..... it is getting old... if it accomplished something then great... if every thread like this got more paste back in the tube then great.. but it doesn't.. and time marches on and the schism gets wider...

All the points Kelly made in this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfish (Post 30451)

Would it be fair, or make me a cheater in online play if I did the following to my sim software and others did not thinking we were on a level playing field and trying to keep it that way.

* Altered default skins to look different then normal, be they historical or arcade (Chartruse for German, Flourecent Pink for British, etc.), and or could highlight hitbox area's.....That ability why M.G. hardcoded default skins.
* Altered canopies to be different then how others saw them even making current obstructions in view gone.
* Altered cockpit components to improve view from in the plane, reducing or removing head rests and the like an example.
* Altered canopy glass and gunsights to be able to see better through them.
* Altered gunsights to have less obstructive reticles, even reducing or enhancing their brightness.
* Altered gunsights to be gyro stabilized and compensating to help me place my rounds more accurately.
* Altered bombsights to see clearly at a greater range.
* Altered early scope type sights to not black out the surrounding area.
* Added mirrors to planes that did not have them "in the sim", so I would have use of them when others did not.
* Had the ability to move about the cockpit more then others to improve my view, possibly even to impossible extremes, and with non existent parts of the cockpit making windows through it.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible to me via increasing reflectivity.
* Made visual cues as to other planes show better and longer even at further ranges by making smoke, fuel leaks and contrails more visible, lasting longer before fading and able to see them at greater ranges.
* Made planes and ground objects more visible at greater ranges, be it through improving dot range, or when such objects would show to me.
* Made terrain more visible at greater ranges helping in navigation.
* Made sounds distinctive so I could easily tell from inside a noisy cockpit what types of planes were near and weapons being fired and so on.
* Made sounds give greater audible cues as to the activity around me and its proximity to me.
* Had fire extinguishers in planes that others did not.
* Could see exaust flames (even though many planes had dampers) from other aircraft to help aid in spotting during low light conditions.
* Reduced my own gunflashes to not blind me, and or increased how I'd see others to aid in visual cues.
* Altered the torque of my engine....More giving me quicker rolls, less more stability .
* Etc. the list goes on........
......and I'll not even touch on altering weapons loadouts, types, FMs, DM,s and so on....
So, if I used any of the above in online play when others did not...........Would it be cheating?

were excellent points as to how these mods can become unfair aids without altering FMs and DMs.... at least those comments served to enlighten, to add some relevant light on the subject but a lot of this other stuff is just like running around waving your arms in the air and screaming .....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert (Post 29657)

I have no personal opinion on any one who uses it, but I wish the persons who hacked the game would be honest and just say they hacked the game because they wanted to, NOT because the sounds were bad. That's the excuse. Not the reason

Hell if you're gonna hack.....fix the damn AI.

EDIT: I should say IMPROVE the AI. For a 6 year old game that started with a limited plane set and limited objectives, it's done fairly well. But I'm expecting more.... MUCH more with BoB. TYVM.

Rgr me too.... and I think that hacked it not because they wanted to alone but because it was a challenge.... this was the only unhacked cfs ion the market.... and it stayed that way a long time.... but it first got hacked @ 2 years ago I think... it wasn't a major thing until it was made public.... then AHBL..

Ok, example time;

Though I disagree in principle as to hacking the sim, and have strong objections as to how the hacks are implimented exposing hidden content, also in that many of the hacks are quite simply cheats unbalancing online play..........A request of many was made for the ability to switch the reticle on and off, and remove the gunsight for racing tournaments.

Those two requests and any subsequent attempts to make such alterations "IF" delivered in a coded package making it difficult for "cheaters" to alter the sim further are though infringing on sim copyrights tolerable......In that they would not aid cheaters, nor unbalance online play....Simply adding features to the sim which do no harm.

If all of the hacks from day 1 had taken that course, and been presented in a responsible way...........I'd have zero issues AND would of never even taken a stand on this issue letting a group I respect, Maddox Games deal with their copyright infringement themselves if they so chose.

.........and no, it is NOT simply a matter of taste or preferance, as anything supplied to the masses will get used, and we all except the most unintelligent can tell what hacks will unbalance online play.

What stuns me most of all is where are the new objects, where are enhanced features in the sim itself (making currently locked items such as F6 server switchable, adding recon photos to briefings, adding the ability for briefing sounds to be downloaded, making the plane icon on minmap paths server switchable, etc.).....Where are all the things that really enhance the sim "expanding it"....While doing no harm in any form?.....Various attempts at mapping all I'm seeing in this regard.

K2

More and more cheaters have shown up in online servers. Hope new anti-cheat system will be out soon. But please keep the modability of IL2. I'm sure it will make the game much more brilliant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfish (Post 30492)

Ok, example time;
Though I disagree in principle as to hacking the sim, and have strong objections as to how the hacks are implimented exposing hidden content, also in that many of the hacks are quite simply cheats unbalancing online play..........A request of many was made for the ability to switch the reticle on and off, and remove the gunsight for racing tournaments.

Those two requests and any subsequent attempts to make such alterations "IF" delivered in a coded package making it difficult for "cheaters" to alter the sim further are though infringing on sim copyrights tolerable......In that they would not aid cheaters, nor unbalance online play....Simply adding features to the sim which do no harm.

If all of the hacks from day 1 had taken that course, and been presented in a responsible way...........I'd have zero issues AND would of never even taken a stand on this issue letting a group I respect, Maddox Games deal with their copyright infringement themselves if they so chose.

.........and no, it is NOT simply a matter of taste or preferance, as anything supplied to the masses will get used, and we all except the most unintelligent can tell what hacks will unbalance online play.

What stuns me most of all is where are the new objects, where are enhanced features in the sim itself (making currently locked items such as F6 server switchable, adding recon photos to briefings, adding the ability for briefing sounds to be downloaded, making the plane icon on minmap paths server switchable, etc.).....Where are all the things that really enhance the sim "expanding it"....While doing no harm in any form?.....Various attempts at mapping all I'm seeing in this regard.
K2

I understand you totally.... and agree with you.... which is one reason why, as good as some of the things I have seen seem.. and some of them are good improvements.. and have nothing to do with unbalancing online play... , I have NOT DLd any of the mods yet. I want to see what 1C does.... I wish Oleg would offer up a little more input than the two one liners quoted above.... but since he hasn't I will just wait until he does...

I agree with you Bearcat, Some more insight from Oleg would help, but, let's look at two possible scenarios...

If he says (in so many words) it's cool, then fine. Mod on.

If he says no, it's not cool. Then what?

Sadly there is no easy way out of this.

Simply being cordial to each other won't fix things. Online will continue to suffer in the interim.

What to do?

The only reason I am so passionate about this is because I love the sim so much.

*SIGH*

Perhaps it is just not politically correct but I don't recall anyone so far in this thread actually mention the quality of this sound mod.

I have been hoping for some time to hear a real Merlin in this best of flight sims and yes the mod does come close in some ways but falls down horribly in others. The phasing loop over the engine sound quickly becomes intolerable; flying the Storch and U2V? would also be far more believable if Oleg and crew had a hand in it.

Me - I've gone back to 4.08m and very happy to do so. Roll on 4.09...

I dream of Tigermoths, Avro Austers, Whirlwinds, Walrus, Swordfish, Lysanders et al but am still a very happy offline player of whatever these most excellent of programmers and researchers offer us.

A Linux native compile would be nice...
.