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-   -   4.13.2 de-bugging (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=229299)

Janosch 04-13-2016 09:53 PM

When opening the canopy while inflight, the sound doesn't change, like it did in the previous version. I only tested this with F4U-1D and early Ki-43.

stugumby 04-15-2016 05:53 AM

R-5 load out issue
 
Just had my first R5 load out problem in an older mission, made a mission entitled DE_Belenhino, it was about attacking armored trains etc. The R5 load out was gun pods and 4x fab 100 bombs, now that load out dosnt exist anymore, so when the mission opens, planes fall from the sky and explode. This back wards compatability issue is annoying indeed.

Sita 04-15-2016 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stugumby (Post 713105)
Just had my first R5 load out problem in an older mission, made a mission entitled DE_Belenhino, it was about attacking armored trains etc. The R5 load out was gun pods and 4x fab 100 bombs, now that load out dosnt exist anymore, so when the mission opens, planes fall from the sky and explode. This back wards compatability issue is annoying indeed.

we work om that issue ... thanks for the report...

Pursuivant 04-15-2016 09:36 PM

Damage model bugs with the R-5 family:

* Wheels can be hit by gunfire but can't be broken off.

* Landing gear struts aren't modeled and can't be hit or broken.

* Tail skid doesn't have a damage model and can't be hit or broken.

* Hits to vertical stabilizer cause rudder to break off.

* Rudder is very hard to break off - you need to hit it in a certain spot.

* Rudder is extremely easy to damage - just one bullet triggers the damage textures.

* Certain sections of the rudder (bottom area, below elevators) aren't modeled, so hits to that location have no effect.

* Horizontal and Vertical stabilizers are very hard to break. It's easier to break the rear fuselage!

* Rear fuselage is very easy to break compared to just about any other part of the aircraft.

* Elevators are very hard to break, but ridiculously easy to damage (just 1 bullet triggers damage textures).

* Wing struts don't have a damage model and can't be hit or broken.

* Hits to rear fuselage cause damage to central upper wing section.

* Ailerons can't be damaged or broken off.

* Fatal damage to any section of the upper wing causes the outer section of the wing to break.

* The central upper wing section is very hard to damage and can't be broken.

* Hits to the central upper wing trigger damage textures on rear fuselage.

* The lower wing sections are extremely difficult to break - much harder than the outer upper wing section.

* The lower wings are modeled as single parts so damage textures don't always show up in the correct locations.

* Hits to the fuel tanks easily triggers an explosion, even with just 2-3 non-incendiary bullets.

* The engine seems very tough for a small inline engine. It can absorb as much damage (5-6 .50 caliber bullets) as the DB-605 engine in the Bf-109 or the Merlin engine in the Spitfire before it stops! Realistically, the R-5's engine isn't that much larger than a truck engine, so just 1-2 .50 caliber bullets ought to stop it fairly quickly.

* Destruction of the engine triggers an explosion, which is unrealistic. (This might just be the fatal damage explosion effect).

* The fatal damage/crash explosion effect is probably has more energy than gas in the fuel tanks could realistically provide! It's probably based on the 25 or 50 kg bomb explosion effect, which is too powerful. For small planes like the R-5 or Fi-156, the "fatal damage" explosion effect should be really small, or should just be replaced by an engine fire effect with no explosion.

* On R-5 and SSS the rear guns aren't modeled, they can't be hit or damaged.

Treetop64 04-16-2016 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogabooga (Post 713052)
I'm using international version in English language. It seems that accented vowels such as umlauts, etc. don't show up properly in menu squadron lists. See for example:

http://www.mission4today.com/index.p...at=10191&pos=0

I did not have this problem before installing the 4.13.1 patch. Is anyone else having this issue, or is something with my system? (Some sort of ASCII issue?)

Yeah, I've seen that, too.

Flying a LW campaign and after reading the briefing, when going to the Arming screen that shows your unit name, instead of "JG 51 Mölders" it now shows "JG 51 M:lders". This only occurred since updating to 4.13.1.

SaQSoN 04-16-2016 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
Damage model bugs with the R-5 family:

* Landing gear struts aren't modeled and can't be hit or broken.

Not a bug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Tail skid doesn't have a damage model and can't be hit or broken.

Not a bug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Hits to vertical stabilizer cause rudder to break off.

If V.stab is shot off - rudder brakes off. If rudder hinge gets destroyed - rudder brakes off. Not a bug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Rudder is very hard to break off - you need to hit it in a certain spot.

If rudder hinge gets destroyed - rudder brakes off. Not a bug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Rudder is extremely easy to damage - just one bullet triggers the damage textures.

Same, as on all other planes. Not a bug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Certain sections of the rudder (bottom area, below elevators) aren't modeled, so hits to that location have no effect.

Not true. You just do not hit them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Elevators are very hard to break, but ridiculously easy to damage (just 1 bullet triggers damage textures).

Any hit to any control surface should cause them to switch to D1 state. Control surfaces have only one damage state (D1). So, works, as it should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Wing struts don't have a damage model and can't be hit or broken.

Not a bug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Hits to rear fuselage cause damage to central upper wing section.

Hits to the central fuselage part should cause damage to the central top wing section. Much probably this is what happens. Should be double checked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Fatal damage to any section of the upper wing causes the outer section of the wing to break.

Not a bug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* The central upper wing section is very hard to damage and can't be broken.

Cental wing section is part of the central fuselage. It can not be broken off, but it can be damaged with the central fuselage. This is DM limitation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* Hits to the central upper wing trigger damage textures on rear fuselage.

Hits to central wing section should cause damage to the central fuselage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* The lower wings are modeled as single parts so damage textures don't always show up in the correct locations.

Not a bug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuivant (Post 713115)
* The engine seems very tough for a small inline engine. It can absorb as much damage (5-6 .50 caliber bullets) as the DB-605 engine in the Bf-109 or the Merlin engine in the Spitfire before it stops! Realistically, the R-5's engine isn't that much larger than a truck engine, so just 1-2 .50 caliber bullets ought to stop it fairly quickly.

The size of the M-17, or BMW-VI engine is very similar to the size of the DB-6XX family, or Merlin family. And definitely much larger, then a truck engine. Their strength isn't much different either. Not a bug.

Pursuivant 04-16-2016 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaQSoN (Post 713118)
The size of the M-17, or BMW-VI engine is very similar to the size of the DB-6XX family, or Merlin family. And definitely much larger, then a truck engine. Their strength isn't much different either. Not a bug.

Ignoring things like power output, compression ratio, and power-to-mass ratios for a moment, let's look at dry mass and length for the M-17 vs. the DB-605 and Merlin:

540-553 kg, 1,810mm Mikulin M-17

756 kg, 2,158 mm Daimler-Benz DB 605

744 kg, 2250 mm Rolls-Royce Merlin

It's indisputable that the M-17 is 25-30% lighter and 20-25% shorter than the other engines I referenced. That means that any given bullet is going to do relatively more damage to the smaller, lighter engine.

Unless you have better data than I do, which indicates that the M-17 was inherently 20-25% tougher than the larger engines, I'd suggest that the M-17 engines in the game are a bit tougher than they should be.

As to wing struts and landing gear struts not being modeled, that might not be a "bug" but it is bad damage modeling.

If you can blow the fixed landing gear off a Stuka or A6M "Val" then you should be able to do the same thing for the R-5 family or any other plane with a fixed gear.

Likewise, wing struts aren't just there for show, they're critical to preventing the wings of a biplane from coming off. Break a wing strut and the inherent structural stability of all wings on that side of the plane is compromised. They represent just as vital a target as the main spar in a monoplane's wing.

Modeling control surfaces being blown off if they're hit at the hinge is good damage modeling, but having smaller control surfaces like elevators be harder to damage than a relatively large control surface like a rudder doesn't make sense.

Additionally, one .50 caliber bullet is all that's needed to trigger damage textures in the rudder. Realistically, that bullet is going to blow a fist-sized hole in the control surface at best. For a fabric-covered surface, it might just blow through leaving a hole the size of a man's thumb. It's going to take a lot of holes - or a lot of structural damage to the rudder frame - before you lose enough rudder surface that you start to lose significant amounts of rudder authority.

This isn't a problem with the R-5 family, though, it's a problem with many planes in the game. Control surfaces are often far too vulnerable, particularly huge control surfaces which are made entirely of metal, such as those on large bombers.

KG26_Alpha 04-16-2016 09:16 PM

BMW-VI engine is huge :)

Pursuivant 04-18-2016 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha (Post 713123)
BMW-VI engine is huge :)

Yes, but not as huge - by length or mass - as the other engines I referenced, yet it has about the same capacity to absorb damage.

Perhaps the BMW-VI and its sucessor, the M-17 are somehow 20-25% harder to destroy due to other factors - like reduced HP, outstanding reliability or durability, or unusually large oil and coolant tanks.

Otherwise, it makes most sense to base an engine's ability to absorb damage purely on its mass and volume.

stovak 04-18-2016 07:18 PM

On the R-5 co-pilot's panel, the altimeter can appear broken in the co-pilot view but fixed if you shift to the gunner position.


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