Hehe I thought the furniture was designed to make people feel stupid trying to put it together?

unfortunately that's not the case. Italy has the same rules for firearms like most of Europe, but crime is still there, this to show that guns and crime are not necessarily linked. It's important to identify what kind of crime we're talking about though. Example: mob gangs shooting at each other? Their issue, they do it regularly, problem is that sometimes innocent bystanders get in the way, not always, but it happened. The problem is that you can't eradicate that kind of crime easily, it's not like you go to the local Don Corleone, knock at their door and say "look, from now on no guns, only bar fights, ok?" .

We also have a lot of burglary happening, mostly done by desperate immigrants and low life scum. There have been cases in northern Italy where whole families were tied, beaten and in some cases raped while they were robbing their house, something a la Clockwork Orange. Now after that experience, how can you tell the victims "no need to arm yourselves"? Police can't be everywhere all the time, it's a fact.

And yes, there are the random individuals that shoot themselves and/or the family, but killing crime is mostly done by other means, and knives are still often the weapon of choice, cos they're there and easy to use in a raptus. Shall we ban knives from households? :rolleyes:

As someone else said, guns are just tools, which can also be used to stop and prevent crime.

Example: if I walk on a road and see an armed police officer, I will think twice before getting into the shop and robbing it, because if I do it and get out, I will likely get my a** shot. If I'm in the same situation and see an unarmed police officer, I will be more tempted, cos I can leg it. Fighting crime needs to be an uneven and unfair one, police needs to be stronger than the average criminal, otherwise it's just a farse.

I agree fully - I only go back to the UK for a few days every couple of years these days, but when I meet family and friends they are often very angry about constant surveillance. Most of them seem to think it has become widespread because the police and local authorities use it as a stealth-tax mechanism. The feeling is that any minor transgression by a member of the largely law abiding middle classes is criminalized and followed up with full bureaucratic efficiency, while the real criminals are largely left alone since dealing with them is difficult and expensive. I do not remember anyone, however, suggesting that the answer is to arm the citizenry.

Having just watched the PM's speech on the telly, I get the impression that Mr Cameron is trying to tap into that mood and attempt a turn around in the state of British society. I wish him all the best, but suspect that the established forces defending the status quo will be too strong.:(

Linking crime and guns... well, all banning (another prohibition) guns does, is to make them more expensive on a blackmarket and give the owners a status.

Gangs still do drive-by attacks in countries where guns are banned.

that's exactly the spirit unfortunately. Heck, there's vans that go around with cameras to check on who paid road taxes or not! The approach they use is not even intelligent! You know how much time and efforts police forces put into "fighting" against people that drive uninsured and with no road tax paid? It's ridiculous that with the amount of technology we have nowadays we still have this problem, and if you get hit by one of these irresponsible scum your insurance won't even cover for it!

I mean, what's the limit of crap one can get before rebelling? It's insane.

The answer is not to arm the citizens, but to re-design the police forces around the needs of a modern society. The right to have firearms should have nothing to do with public order.

uh, that's a safe assumption: you're basically saying that the majority is right. I'm sure you might have heard of Nazi Germany at some point in your life.. I'm surprised I'm even discussing the sense of democracy really, it's obvious I give people's education for granted..

I wander off to give you examples that are more tangible, since you never had a gun or know what it entitles to own/operate one. The fact that Jordan & Co. are popular tells a lot about the cultural level of this country. They're hugely popular among working class, or "chavs" as you like saying here. So if chavs are the majority, shall we leave the ruling of the country in their hands? Let's change the Union Jack to a Burberry one, innit blud? :rolleyes:

That's good for you, but in a democracy, even minorities have their right to express their opinion. You're thinking more along the lines of an enlightened regime, which is what we're living in at the moment.

..what are you supposed to mean with that? Is it another case of "I don't know how to answer so I'll shout them to STFU". My dear keyboard hero, there was a time when you would be able to make such aggressive statements, bear the consequences of it (most likely a broken nose), then go home and learn from it. Nowadays you'd probably call the police and report the aggression, or do it from a pc, where you know you're safe and can get the worst out with no consequences. You're the frustrated individual, not me. I can live in a world of guns and know how to behave/handle them, you can't simply cos you've been told it's bad (unless it's Northern Ireland, or Afghanistan, or Iraq) and obey like a good sheep.

I don't need to, I'm fine with the possibilities I'm given at the moment.
Once again, your beloved government just had the courage to propose to shut down social networks in case other riots happen.. don't you really see what they're trying to do to your freedom?? :confused:

I am so happy we have found something that we can agree on! :-D

(Unless you are just being satirical :confused:)

I wasn't man, I really mean it. It's obvious that there's something broken in the system and that we all want to live in a safer society (we're not the SPECTRE), it's that we're trying to do it from different approaches.

The right to have a firearm (if deemed suitable for it by a competent panel) should be there regardless of your belief/interest in firearms.

Depriving citizens of their rights won't make a society safer,it will only boost crime, see what happened with proibitionism. What really scares me is that the Orwellian view of modern society is becoming a sad reality in Britain: they don't want you to think, they give you the illusion of freedom and then do what they want with you.

It's sad, but it's a one way ticket to a sad, sad future, human nature is capable of too many perverted things to be contained like that :(

What? We all gonna hug now? Be sure I won't turn my back to that aft hunter. ;-)

We need a new topic!

you better not, got still some IKEA spares I could throw at you ;-)