Well, in my opinion this is a medium sized IT-project, and as such it should not be that hard to estimate a budget frame for it. I've seen a few game projects from rather close distance and they have been using the same methodology as "real" IT projects. They have also been successful in meeting their deadlines even though they have had larger scope than SoW...

When you miss your release date with 3 years in a fast moving world like this, you should be very happy to have your funding left...

Well, my guesses are as bad as anyones, I know, but I consider it a fact that Oleg in the beginning of December wrote that he hoped to have the SoW-site up and running by the end of December. Thus far, the site is not up. And I consider it a fact that he in October 2007 stated that he hoped to come up with regular updates in 2-3 weeks intervals, and he hasn't.

Both of those statements were "hopes" not promises. Personally, I hope to be a millionare within 2 weeks, but that is unlikely to happen. Maybe Olegs hopes are as far fetched as mine. Honestly, I really don't think so.

Skarphol

Lifes not that simple. Just as Oleg finishes giving a statement on the forums.... I can see someone coming into his office and saying. " The Website developer just called and they won't be able to start for a few more months, and by the way, the weather code we thought we had a handle on, well its all f*"ked up, and Ivan the weatherman quit. "

Is that Crazey-Ivan?...I've been wondering what he is up to, long time no see:grin:

Well we all have our own take on what is or is not happening, we were having these very same discussions this time last year and the year before that. The only fact is that very little has happened regarding information/updates which leads me to believe that we are in pretty much the same position has we were last year in 'hoping' that it will be released before Christmas, if it is released before Crimbo then i will eat my shorts and change my name to Susan. In my opinion the true indication that this game is nearing completion is when the marketing kicks in, we have seen nothing yet and are not likely to for some time.

Hey Oleg, if that ain't motivation to get things done I don't know what is. Work man work! I think we all want to watch that one.:mrgreen:

Flyingbullseye

You can hope to be a millionare by winning in a lottery, but planning it is something quite different.

Taking your example, Skarphol, you can plan to win in a lottery. It only has 2 limitations to overcome the random nature of the lotery: Money and time.

As you don't have unlimited money and time, you have to live with the random factor and that may serve you well and win you at least small sums in weeks, but it may also cost you a million years to win.


Same is true for Oleg's situation. If the random factors don't interfere, he meets his plans. If not, he either has to invest more money, which probably does not come from an unlimited source or more time, which p*sses off people like you. Even if the random factor is not equally high as winning a jackpot, the model applies to any project.



And BTW he didn't "miss" the release-date by 3 years. He announced a new product and postponed it in favour of other product. You would be even more p*ssed, if only 100% reliable info was released, because we probably never heared anything from Oleg, possibly not even model-shots, because they might not be 100% sure in the initial release.

Well, I'm not p*ssed at anyone. Quite impatient, but not angry.
Oleg can not have an indefinate source of money, so he have to have a timetable for the progression of his product. He has wisely enough never revealed that timetable.
I, personally, find his statements confusing, as if they are not related to any form of timetable at all. I realize that it is mostly me and perhaps TreeUK who finds this peculiar.

As allways when people disagree with me I'm thinking "Why doesn't everybody agree with me? After all, I'm right!" But those thoughts seldom leads to anything..

Skarphol

I was not refering to you with the excremental language, Skarphol. But there are a lot of people posting here, who praise their own point of view over common sense.

Back to your post: To have a timetable and to have the luxury to meet it are 2 different things, Skarphol. Confusing, yes, but rest asured Oleg not being able to meet his timetable is a *LOT* more confusing (and frustrating) to Oleg than it is to you and me. One more reason to stop bashing him and develop some patience.

I dont think anyone is knocking Oleg's timetable, we are merely questioning why we are given information such as 'hopefully website will up and running by the end of December' and then to hear nothing more of them. Oleg recently stated that he cannot honestly answer when this sim will be finished and then said 'so please dont ask', this tells me that there is no measurable timescale to this project so any info we receive such has '60%' complete is far more speculative than any posts that have been made in this forum.

Well, that is not the full story, as you know if you're honest on this. The full story is more like:

I dont think anyone is knocking Oleg's timetable, we are merely questioning why we are given information such as 'hopefully website will up and running by the end of December' and if it is not online on december 1st people come here and flame Oleg and his shameful lack of knowledge in project leading and management. Then SoW is called vapour ware and people demand solid and reliable dates and answers and then to hear nothing more of them[Oleg].

And yes, people are knocking Oleg's timetable in many senses.

Jeezuz

Leave the guy alone and let him build the new game/sim.

You have some kind of problem with time, its your problem and no one elses.

No i meant what i originally said, not your misinterpretation, must be a language thing. Also just to keep you updated Feuerfalke it is now the 17th of March , and just how can we be knocking Oleg's timetable when he clearly hasn't got one!!

Let's be fair. :D It's only a consistant few who knock the timetable any chance they get. Most can and have been waiting patiently.

Oh gawd, listen guys we are not knocking any timetable, there isnt one to knock, its done when its done, 'Olegs words'. All that i am doing is daring to question why Oleg or his team post news of an upcoming update or website or whatever and then never mention it again. It seems a little strange that's all.
You dont have to reply, and i apologize for disturbing your patiently waiting for SOW time.

+1...it does seem odd and bother's me as well. At least a "sorry" we had a problem, to offer nothing seems rude, and un-business like to me

Well this is a community forum for discussion of IL2 unfortunately looking at Trees posts they are 99% where's this where's that and nothing else, no contribution just demands and I want all the time.

Change the tune a bit its getting boring.:rolleyes:

I don't mean to look like Im attacking you but this constant bickering is doing no good for anyone, especially for an already overworked and Im sure underpaid development team.

Some support might go along way at this stage with SOW why not ask how you can help the team, maybe they need some research or help translating the GUI.

Im sure they would appreciate your asking to help.

Cheers

No demands from me brother and i have never said 'I want', i have merely raised questions, which is what a forum is all about.I suppose we could all 'sing the same tune' and give praise to Oleg everyday for not wasting precious development time on updates. Still at least by reading through all of my posts you have had something vaguely interesting to do whilst you patiently wait for SOW. Oh and stop getting all worked up for Olegs sake he may start to worry about you.

Agree with you, KG.
As a customer, I bought IL2, FB. PF and IL2 46, for a total expense of less than 200 €. It’s difficult to say how many hours of pleasurable playtime I had in exchange. Just to say a number, 500 hour, but it’s a prudent guess. It all amount to an hourly 40 cent, which to me is quite a bargain, and it’s totally irrelevant if you put computer, trackir and joystick expenses in the picture. Substitutes your numbers for mine, and you can easily calculate your expense.
Now, Oleg and 1C are probably not the best communicators in the world, but they are definitely THE BEST in sim development. And, in the end, that’s what matters for me.

Te he he he
Guys, about the only poiint of the site is to talk about SOW.
Oleg has said no to any further Il2 official developments so we are stuck in a rut...
SOW this, that and the other.
What I have learned so far is that when anyone promises an update, or anything else on this site take it with pinch of salt.
Will SOW come out yes, will it be this year, a definate and you can quote me "NO."
We are three months into the new year and we do not even have a single new screenshot.
Not one ingame shot of anything including basic scenery...
Everything we have seen is the same.
And Feuerfalke aren't you busy over at the ROF site showering them with praise :)
Make up your mind dude? Being a yes man on a public forum is like well, sad :grin:

Why?

Because he has more respect than others?


You can state questions, of course, but the tone makes the music and especially if you repeat the same questions over and over again, these questions carry a message beyond the wanted answer.

Thanks for letting me know i can still ask questions Feurefalke, in future i will pm them to you first so you can give Oleg a nudge in the morning to see if he thinks the 'tone' is ok.

Well, I kind of like that people are positive. Even though I often disagree with Feuerfalke, I have seldom seen him write anything wrong. And these forums doesn't get much better with people like me who tend to see the glass as half empty.
If it had not been for discussions, this forum had been as dead as Elvis.

Skarphol

Sshhhhh Bobb, we all know its not coming out this year, but i don't think anyone's told Oleg yet.

(quote)
What I have learned so far is that when anyone promises an update, or anything else on this site take it with pinch of salt.



That's what bothers me. They should not give a hint of something to come, and then ignore it. I was raised to only say thing's that I could follow up on. I would much rather that they said nothing, and one day surprise! some kind of news posted.:)

I don't think it matters what the developer says or does. If they don't say anything its vaporware. If he hopes its a promise. If he posts a WIP screenshot its critized for any number of reasons. But its only by a vocal few, most have seen the updates and articles, and are assured in their own minds that this highly complex game is closer to completion every day by a developer who has proven he can go the distance.

Then again he could be just sitting in his empty offices, with a bottle of Vodka, infront of his last computer, pulling our pissers for the last couple years. LMFAO

.......or he could just make a little post saying ' please dont waste your money on pre-orders' because this sim is a long way of.

Or you could just ignore the pre ordering, problem solved.

That just may be the case, look at what I found at the obscure Belorussian forum:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/...gVodkacopy.jpg

Skarphol

@ skarphol

Please dont produce so cheap fakes to discredit our guru!!!

Bit late now i pre-orderded mine in 2007, if only i had known that Oleg hadn't even started it! :(

:):):) @ Skarphol

You haven't payed yet I hope. I thought these pre-order sites only charged your credit card after the item is shipped, so it shouldn't be a big deal one way or another.

I did pay Chivas, we have a debit card in the UK, anyhow they refunded me late last year without me even asking for it. They said the product was no longer available. Not a bad little earner though if they took 3-5 thousand (mere speculation) pre-orders @ £27 each and sit on the cash for over a year. It would not take much effort on the part of 1C to make a statement about pre-ordering a product that is no where near completion, especially in 2007.

You can still pre-order it from these places.

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/1021...n/Product.html

http://www.gogamer.com/Storm-of-War-...VVviewprod.htm

http://www.ebgames.com/Catalog/Produ...oduct_id=61047

http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/P...itain/1515597/


This one makes me giggle, abit of a communication breakdown here me thinks unless this is what became Birds of prey, but how could it be possible that Ubisoft really believed that SOW would be released in Nov 2006? Did they just make it up without any input from Oleg, seems very unlikely to me.

http://www.ubi.com/US/News/Info.aspx?nId=3950

Skarphol have you ever wondered how many live's were ruined because of photo shop...luckily for Oleg, it appears he is in no condition to care:-P

Thats a good question Tree. It has been discussed many times but no answers as of yet. The developer has stated they could have released SOW awhile ago if they wanted, but it didn't fit their vision of the final product. Maybe the publisher wanted them to release that product, but the developer prefered to make SOW cinematic with more features to expand their market i.e. CGI. In the mean time they could release more paid addons to the IL-2 series. UBI had no problem selling those addons. We haven't heard a word from UBI since. Ruffled feathers, plus Lawyers, equals silence. It could also be that after UBI got burnt with that statement, and decided not to say anything about the product until they had a more solid release date. Or maybe they are no longer involved as your investigation seems to bare out.

I really don't care if UBI is involved or not. We will be able to buy the product from another publisher or on-line with no publisher involved, even with lawyers involved.

I agree - this must be some kind of a theodicy for the purists that claim that the release date from Ubisoft was a pure french fantasy that was never even discussed with Oleg. Of course, as we now "know" that development started in 2007 - how could it?

As Oleg posted before, these dates were based on the idea of building BoB on the IL2-Engine. While the game was being developed before, work on the new engine was started in 2007, which meant neccessary reworks of most of the stuff already done.


Anyway, I don't know why anybody does preorder a game without seeing any screenshots, videos, previews, reviews, systems specs, release-dates (not release years), etc of the final game? :confused:

Even IF it was released then, you'd give you money away months before the release, giving easily away months of interests, this money would bring to your bank-account. Not much, but 50 bucks for 2 years, that's a quite few euros freely given to the reseller.

Feuerfalke..... If my memory serves me correctly they were talking about building SOW on a new game engine long before 2007. The developers first release date was the end of 2005 but found they couldn't do the things they want to do with the IL-2 engine and decided build the new engine. From 2005 till 2007 most of the work being done was on the IL-2 addons with a skeleton crew working on SOW and the new engine.

Feurefalke i pre-ordered mine in 2007 when i saw the footage of Oleg in Birmingham, in that footage he clearly said that he expected the game to be released in November of the same year. I had no idea at the time that this was all bullsh*t because In those days i was very much like yourself and believed everything that was said. Has you can see my view has changed somewhat. I also thought by pre-ordering i might be helping the development in a small way by investing in the project.

Its not about believing anything, its about understanding that things change, and we have no control over that. So relax, it will be out when its out.

The company does not get the money from the pre-order, until after the contract for selling it was made. So pre-order only helps in terms of guessing how many copies may be sold. That again helps the distributor, again not the producer.

Besides that, I agree with Chivas, but I'd like to add, that even Oleg has no control over some things changing. This is a complex project with a lot of people involved, complex technical and juristic circumstances, that suffer from frequent changes. Most of these factors simply cannot be controlled 100%.

If you are refering to the Mystic Puma 'interview' he said he needs it to be released. There's a big difference between that and how you interpreted it. If you're refering to a different video (one I'm not aware of) where Oleg said he expected it to be released by November, then I understand your frustration, Tree.

All gone a wee bit quite in here, still we have the Simhq interview to look forward too, the big update that Nike promised and the dedicated SOW website of course. Time simply flys by.

Any guesses as to when the next simHQ interview will be released?

Flyingbullseye

See guod's post
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph..._353_days.html