Pft... I know, a lamer would not understand... But, I believe, it's clear to everyone else, that BoB is not the reason. It is a consequence.

Yes, I know, it's a law of nature: when something dies, scavengers and other sh|t eaters step in to have their prey. It's ok with me, don't worry.

I just hope, the role, *you* choose for yourself, fits you well. ;)

What's with the developer trashing. The modders would have nothing to mod without the hard work of the developers. Ofcourse the IL-2 series wasn't perfect, neither will the SOW series. Even the mods are far less than perfect. Thats an impossible task given the complexity of whats trying to be accomplished on todays computers. SOW will become closer to perfection as the series grows and computers become more capable.

The IL-2 series is dead as a commercial product as its impossible to support IL-2 and develop SOW. It may have been possible if the developers crew was larger and we actually paid what the software is worth. Even then there would be no point in maintaining IL-2 as most of the community will move on. There will always be a few diehards, but Il-2 will die a slow death even in the mod community when SOW is released with a mod friendly componant.

Trashing the developer is one of the most clueless points of view I've read in the IL-2 forums.

You asked me to show you where you were slandering Il2 customers, well you just showed it yourself.

Also, to suggest that BoB is in development as a consequence of il2 cracking/modding is ridiculous, you should know better than to beleive your own bs.

I don't know about that. I bought every add on that came out that had new content. The third party campaign things I could take or leave.. but the new content was a must. I am sure that like many of us who had FB+AEP+PF already buying Pe-2 was a no brainer. I would have been more than willing to buy SoM & 46 as separate add ons as well even if they were not released as an all ion one DVD.. as it was I bought the DVD... I know many folks myself included who would have been willing to pay for every single thing we got in the mods as separate add ons had they been released by 1C. Did the fact that so many people pirated PF & Pe-2 play a factor in 1C deciding that it would not be worth the time and work & expense of developing more add ons with with SoW in the oven?



SoW is hardly vaporware. I wonder if those who maintain this erroneaous line of thought will be man enough to admit they are wrong when the sim is finally released...


That's not why the modders took over at all. If they could have they would have modded this sim earlier. Count on it. This was not something that started after support for FB stopped. This has been going on for years, it just became acessable to a larger group of folks @ 2 years or so ago. When the 4.09 patch came out the sim was modded... so that line iof thought is wrong.

Did i "trash" the developers, i don´t think so.
I stated the facts as i see them:
There is/was a need for new Maps and Planes and no source = fact!
OM and his team were/are developing SoW:BoB and had/have no time to spare for IL2 = fact!
The Mack - Community is, at this time, the only source to satisfy those needs = fact!

I, for my part would gladly pay for a "OM - Patch" that unifies the Il2 - community again until SoW:BoB is published.

Sorry, but when dates slip by years.. until it appears on store shelves, it's much hallyboo'd vaporware. Nothing more nothing less. If it comes out, great.. i'm not holding my breath though, and i certainly won't be first in line.

If they coulda, they woulda.. yes i know. But, by circumstance and timing, this is essentially where the mods took over where the developers left off.. they did a fine job on what they did do, but the legit mod community came about essentially on the premise that what exists can be improved, and what doesn't, can be made to exist .. in time. Obviously more time and/or resources than 1C:Maddox had..

It's a chicken vs the egg argument.. what cheats/'mods' existed before patch 4.09 came about were not released to the wild.. when patch 4.09 came out, it was fortuitious that the mod community picked up the slack, knowing that no further mods were expected (yeah, we all know about the 4.09 final, whenever THAT may come out..)

It's funny.. people seem to revel in demonizing the 'hack' of IL2.. i am only surprised that it had stayed un-hacked as long as it did - a hack didn't go 'wild' until the commercial viability of IL2 had essentially run it's course - perhaps it even gave the franchise a little extra boost through new people picking up a copy, to play with the mods.

And whom do I slander here, may I ask? Can you point to anyone specific?

Except for the mod distributors, off course, who may not be considered a legal customers anymore, for they violate the vendor's copyrights and thus deserve their slander.

Everything otherwise - is just a symmetrical response. ;)

Where did I suggest it?
Take a better attention to what I post, please. Then, it would be obvious to you, that I suggested, the BoB development is a consequence to IL-2 [commercial] death, and not the reason thereof, as someone tries to imply.

This, that you present as a fact.... is just plain wrong...
You just volontary ignore the big number of theird-party planes and maps developped for free and that appeared in different add-ons, the last beiing 4.09... that helas will probably never see the day in its finished state.
So there was a source... telling there wasn't any is a lie.

officially controled and supported modding, even if most of today's pro-"free"-modding conveniently ignore it, was a reality, that brougth to the game a big number of planes and maps.
I also remember well at that time, asking for help on some forums to built some 3D objects for a map, or for some other stuff, getting no (or sparse) reply and help.... thus showing the lack of appeal of constrainted modding (with rules, quality check and official control).
when the battery of "modding/hacking" tools becomes available to almost everybody, and ruleless/constraintless/controless free modding became possible, modding became more appealing and the big mod mess begun.

I bet 1000 Euros with any taker it will be exactly the same with SoW:BoB.... whatever the quality and oppening of the modding tools in it: as long there will be an official dev control (with dev and quality rules) on what will be fully and officially integrated in the game, we will see some good quality mods... at a slow pace...
... when some hacking tool will be available (hopefully not too soon....), then the crow of modders will mess again...

It's hardly a matter of piracy. I'd say, it's loss of interest in wide public. The sales of anything FB/PF-related were steadily going down after PF, which was the last success of the series, actually. With such dynamics, if there was a next add-on after 46, it wouldn't be able to cover it's dev.costs. Even if each die-hard fan would buy 2 copies of it. :)

Wow.. I didn't know that...

I hope that the part of SoW that Oleg will make moddable will never cross over to the core of the sim.. I believe that since he is doing SoW from the ground up he is probably making it so that the FMs are so encrypted that they can never be gotten to.. but iother things like maps etc.. can.. at least I hope that's they way he makes it..

[QUOTE=Rama;64008]This, that you present as a fact.... is just plain wrong...
You just volontary ignore the big number of theird-party planes and maps developped for free and that appeared in different add-ons, the last beiing 4.09... that helas will probably never see the day in its finished state.
So there was a source... telling there wasn't any is a lie.

.....

As a matter of fact it was announced that 4.09 would be the last patch/add-on -> so, no source anymore -> Qed

That's actually the biggest problem for flight sim devs in general whether its this sim, FS9,X ect. Most games are going the FPS route and generate much more income than flight sims. Its easy to understand considering how easy it is to pick up the skill when playing a FPS (point gun at opponent, push trigger, see enemy die) as opposed to the dynamics of flight and pushing the aircraft to thel limit as well as the tactics, strength and weaknesses for you and your opponents ride. That's what has me concerned about SOW BOB and the length of time in its development. I really hope Oleg and team can finish soon and make enough to continue its development past the Battle of Britian.

Flyingbullseye

It should not be an problem, but it is sadly.

Look at the success of strategic warfare games, space strategery games, and good ground combat sims that are not "arcade." None of these are FPS shooter games, but intstead they require much thinking and planning --- strategery.

The problem with combat flight sims is lack of immersive air war simulation, although that can also be applied by independent 3rd Party modders like Lowengrin. But even Lowengrin cannot change things like bomber formations limited to 4 aircraft for example.

For some reason, Oleg took a *great* game engine and bottled it up into a canned Online Dogfight fps shooter game which crippled sales in the long run. It took Lowengrin's dynamic campaign engine to save the sim for many Offline players, while the Online War developers had to endure torture to do the same for Online War players.

Bear:: Oleg has tentative plans for possible independent 3rd Party aircraft modding for the "open mod" version of BoB And Beyond, but not for the "no mod" version.

Actually i see Olegs reasoning beihnd it. and i think it's a good thing.
When they anounced there would be limited modding with OM/1C supplied toos...i thought that was a great idea still do. It's ...in a way.....frees oleg up on having staff to work on expanding the sim so much and allows the use of 3rd party moddlers/map makers/ texture artists...to submit they're work and get it included.

but intill then...no mods.

FYI i don't consider Gibbage, or Harti or any of our 3rd partty guys modders. They actually produce quality work that meets OM's strict standerds.

Bearcat... you still haven't justified pushing the developer to one side...

It was 2 years ago when I first noticed some planes doing things they should not have been doing

I did as far as I am concerned...

did what Bearcat?... gave you "the rights" to il2??

Well if that is the case, I guess you've just justified (in your own mind) pushing the developer aside... how sad indeedy do, to be thinking like that. "Developer support" wouldn't come in the form of supporting the hacking of the sim.

What is your problem?

You don't like mods don't use em... whatever man. I could care less... If you think using 3rd party modifications even if they are unofficial , regardless to how much past current or future support is rendered or intended in a sim that is no longer supported by said developer constitutes kicking the developer to the curb.. then more power to you man. Opinions are like A-holes.. everybody has one. Yours means squat to me.. so don't try to force it on me. I won't be responding to you in this thread anymore...

I don't think Oleg has the time to care or even contemplate what happens to IL-2 at this point. I'm sure he'll be happy for off-line community and hopes the on-line community has no magic mod problems, atleast until BOB comes out. The IL-2 series is history and the future is the SOW series. In a year or so IL-2 will be remembered as one of the past benchmarks in combat flight simming, and only frequented by a few diehard simmers and modders.

ah spoken like a true asshat(just thought i set the tone at a level you'll understand ;)) who is clearly better then all us.

Interesting thing is that while i could post pics here to prove you wrong 5 times over,it is against the rules here and i won't.
All I'll say is anyone who thinks that go and have a look at the screenshots thread or the no links just reasons why ppl use the mods threads at UBI and see how very wrong Saqson is.

Wolf rider,ppl have been cheating for FAR longer then that,far longer then the whole "mod" thing has been around,If you'v been in playing IL-2 for long you would know that.

Rather a bourgeois comment don't you think? Or perhaps you will be buying everyone those super-computers so they can leave the Il-2 series behind... :-P

SoW will be the domain of the privileged few for a good long while before the average pc catches up. ;)

If you know how to use a mouse to select different options you won't need a super computer to run the SOW series. A low option SOW will be far superior to a high option IL-2. A decent computer costs very little to what it did a few years ago, especially if you upgrade componants.

I find this hard to believe. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your lying or that this wasn't true when 46 was released but It seems like it has picked up in the last year or two. I see so many new people coming to this sim and getting 1946. In fact I've seen more new players come to this sim in the last year or so than when 1946 first came out. I wish we had access to the sales figures but it seems like 1946 really only took off in the last 18 months. Almost every day at the Ubi forums we have a new player posting a question.

This is what matters...

"Some mods do contain interesting ideas, or steps into the right direction." ~SaQSoN

Skarden...

If you mean "trim" and gun settings... you're right, though is putting *aelirons on a slider or quickly double tapping a key cheating?

Is setting machine guns guns to a cone and setting cannons to fire dead parrellel cheating? (maybe it is/ maybe it isn't)

If you mean swapping out FM/ DM, that was about 2 years ago, when I first noticed something wasn't right, then that is.



Lexx...

it is still supporting the hacking of the sim

Is this STILL going on?

Like sands through the hourglass...so are the days of our lives :|

Unfortunately only 2 of the 3 mod threads were locked,so everyone will pile in here now to continue the row.

naaa i bailed on this a couple of pages ago.

The community is turning bearish on this thread? That's a possible contrarian bullish signal.