He joined the "dark side", not with a whimper but with a bang! ...strutting with attitude and swagger (LOL)... :)

(Now I may have to check them out too...LOL)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...archmellow.gif
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...y-ylflower.gif

Tuckie came home! http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ppee--fast.gif Man/Manette, its great to just see you on a Maddox forum. AwSim


TUCKIE_JG52::

So, Oleg is paying your salary over at TK's dead end sim?

I didn't think so.

Such arrogance Lexx.



Feuerfalke hit the nail on the head, this whole thread is pointless.

Crash, A for effort on a troll post buddy. You bagged your limit for sure.

No attitude & swagger.. just a hard shot of reality. I havent tied all thos emods.. but the ones I did try were well done. Had that not been so , had all of them been crappy hacks.. I really dont think they would have taken off. Thin about it.. do you really think that the same sim community that gave Oleg hell ove improper gauges and load outs would tolerate really slip shod mods? I don't think so.. Granted Oleg & 1C probably could have done a lot of this better.. but I just cant believe that these modders were able to do things that 1C couldnt. If 1C couldnt it was certainly not because of a lack of skill.. if these modders can do it.. 1C could have too... but perhaps it was contractural things or.. who knows.. but the bottom line is it is done.. and it aint bad. I don't know if Oleg has tried any of the mods.. out of curiosity... but I bet he wold be impressed by a few of them.

So what do you really want Bearcat?

Do you just want to advertise people, because you once were against these mods and are now enthusiastic all over?

Or do you want a general amnesty for the modders, so they can post and advertise their mods freely? Then look at this thread and that it was not locked, though there were even direct attacks against 1C and MG, because modders fixed things that they couldn't and even you mentioned this, no matter that you tried to make it look more friendly then some others, probably out of some rest of remaining respect?

Or do you want Oleg to officially accept and support the crack?


Don't get me wrong. As I posted a lot of times before, I really have respect for a lot of hard work put into this, but it is your message, that I can't take. Just because some people put a lot of effort in something to achieve things that you expected from official sides for years doesn't change the fact that it is all based upon an illegal crack and that a lot of people fell offended and irritated by these discussions.
If the MonaLisa was stolen from the Louvre, repainted in 3 years work, her fainted smile turned into a real one, her breasts upgraded and hair styled, reworked with modern techniques and published officially for free, would you think that's a good idea either, just because there was so much work put into it and it's now available for free?

Superficial equation, I know, but true in 2 things:
1. Something based on a bad thing isn't good because a lot of good people worked on it and some people like it.
2. The only sense this whole thread has is to keep this worn out topic on top of the list, but what you don't see is, that it damages your intentions a lot more than it could have ever helped to put this on THIS forums.

FFalke:: I have not bothered to ask Oleg to add "some" AAA mods to his sim, although I would think it a great idea from the narrow standpoint of customer immersion -- other real concerns aside. But then, I won't tell others not to ask either, unless they are snotty about it, and neither Bear nor Crash have been.

Falke: a friendly tip for webboard behavior -- You can read Bear's poasts if you wish to know what Bear "really wants."

The Mona Lisa parable is a howl, and easily worthy of computer gamer forums. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...eys/thumbs.gif

Well, Bearcat posted we have to accept it, because it's there and won't go away.

As you can see this thread still exists, so he's at least running in open doors. The pure fact that there is no official invitation to discuss these things here doesn't change that.

What strikes me is the argumentation, though. Just because something is there doesn't mean we have to like it. ;)

ElAurens, that was my attempt at humour -- like the quip "we are all keynesians now" often attributed to Nixon although some say Friedman originated this. After the fact, I can see how it could be none too obvious.

I see you still carry the burden of bitterness and are still Whining about me molding another sim we have been assuming you are not playing.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...estionMark.gif

Falke, I don't think Bear said we have to accept unauthorized mods in our sims. But I can see how we have to accept the visible fact that the modding is there -and- the fact that it won't go away.

I don't think Bear ever said "falke" has to or is required to like unauthorized modding. Shucks, Oleg probably doesn't like it. Granted, it is said on the forums that Oleg knew about the hack several years ago, yet he did not prevent the hack from becoming widely used after the end of the sim's development.


Falke:: http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...estionMark.gif

Then I even less understand why there's so much fuzz about it? If it's just to accept it's there, well, we wouldn't discuss here, if we didn't know, so that can't be the goal.

So, just for my slow personal understanding: Is this to advertise on the existence of the mods? Well, if that's the case, then this thread is by far the poorest way to do so IMHO.
People who are interested in modding the game won't need much help to click the various links on www.google.de


But either way, I think it's a bad choice to discuss this HERE. IMHO this campaign is like advertising on alcohol or cigarettes on a blue-cross-site. Sure you may find some people interested, but you piss off a lot of other people (as you can see in this thread) and it's the best way to not show respect towards the people who made the game and maintain this forum. And even in Bearcats post above, intentionally or not, it's very easy to understand like "look what the mods have done, what MG didn't do for years" and that attitude won't help anybody, including mod-makers, MG, the community or BoB.

Even what you just posted, Lexx, that MG knew about the crack and didn't intervene is easily seen as a bad support for this game, incompetence from MG and 1C to handle such a situation and act accordingly. And after all the stuff that was given to us for free, is that really your message?


Again, just to make that perfectly clear: I am not against the mods themselves, but against the way it is discussed and promoted. IMHO the old words "The end justifies the means." completely backfires on the Mods, 1C and BoB the longer this discussion goes. And THAT is the only point to this discussion, because it failed on anything else, the moment this was posted on the publishers site.

Well, Like it or not it has certainly breathed new life into an older Sim and I suspect it will continue for some time yet.
One point though.....I think that given Oleg's resources and time constraints....now we have people all over the world simultaneously producing new maps etc which Oleg's team would have neither the time, people nor money to do in such a short timespan. I'm sure if he could have done them he would have eventually. If I were him I would just be quietly contented about my achievements and legacy......I can see one day in the future when there will be statues dedicated to him as the founder of modern flight sims if his work continues at this quality and rate.
I also don't quite understand the view on cheating, because you only play with your friends whom, I would have thought, would have no wish to cheat you. So any 'cheaters' would end up banned and with no-one to play with anyway.
Best regards,
Pike.

Nice words but ...

a) Oleg IS quit about it for a lot longer than the mod-promoters are

b) cheaters get only banned if they're caught, but there were never before as many accusations of cheating against other players. How do you decide who's wrong and who's right?

IMHO the mods are not the danger, even the few cheats are not, but the idea that your opponent just shot you down because he cheated and nobody does anything against it, THAT is the real danger, not only for IL2, but beyond.

Dear FF,
Could you just clarify what you mean here??

"a) Oleg IS quit about it for a lot longer than the mod-promoters are"

I don't quite understand the statement........do you mean Quiet about it....or does Quit mean annoyed?
Best regards,
Pike

Falke:: I'm not sure. Its something that I read on the forums so your guess or conspiracy theory is as good as anybody's. You will have to go back to re-read what I poasted before quoting me again at this forum. That seems to be a behavioral problem you are having with others as well, at least in this thread, and leaves others wondering what your "message" is.

*Quiet - Typo, sorry.


The mods-promoters just shout so loud and consistent in this thread, that nobody noticed it isn't locked yet and nobody was banned or warned.

Since nobody with a bit of common sense expects Oleg to officially promote the Mods anyway, it just can't get any better. Any further comment is just ole Luke Skywalker in a rusty bucket circling around a deserted Deathstar and nobody cares. IMHO it just takes the "glory" of this "rebellion" further away, nothing else.

That's why I posted before, that this thread has evolved to be absolutely pointless in any regard.

Your Quote from a page before: "Granted, it is said on the forums that Oleg knew about the hack several years ago, yet he did not prevent the hack from becoming widely used after the end of the sim's development."

As I said, it's not that difficult to interpret this comment as a direct critics on Oleg and his lack of ability to do something against it. I don't think you wrote that due to my behavioral problems? You surely had a message and I just asked myself what message was and how people interpret messages like that, quoted or originally written by yourself.

Falke:: There are other interpretations. The most comedic was made by hysterical anti-mod anonymous public server players at the unmoderated ubi forums claiming that Oleg allowed the hack mods to "kill" FB to push customers to BoB And Beyond.

I found it funny since it would theoretically push a small minority of anonymous public server people to the new sim, leaving the private server players and the larger offline customer base to enjoy FB modding. The claim doesn't make sense, unless FB is purely an Online Pay-To-Play sim with no independent private servers. But then, these hysterical anonymous public server players always considered FB to be a pure Online sim with no independent private servers. So the claim *does* make sense when viewed with that fogged perspective.

Agreed, that's funny indeed and equally pointless.

I won't say it was pointless. Fruitless yes, obviously.

The Simhq FB forum restricted hackmod discussion to one (1) thread. Maybe that would be a working compromise here. I don't have membership on any modding forums, but obviously I enjoy poasting about Mod Theory.

Well, I think it's okay for SimHQ and there are a lot of other forums, where these things are not banned any longer. People who are interested in that will find it and that's okay with me.

On the other hand, you may call me an old-schooler, but to me it is a question of respect to not discuss mods on the official boards.

Well, that's why it would be a compromise. No mod discussion outside of the one thread, and any attempts to do so get snipped and the snippee pays a fair and balanced price.

Hm, that's exactly my message:
The way it is already IS a great compromise. What other crack is promoted so much in the open? What would it help to post that here, too, other than to have 1C, UBI and MG agree, that they can't do anything against it?

That's what I mean with respect. :(

Me? I want to fly as much as I can.. I wish I had more time in the day...

As for you.. well you can do what you want to. All I am saying is that the debate or the conversation or whatever you want to call it needs to shift from "Oooo look at all the pretty mods." "But they are hacks and illegal" "Are not" "Are too" "ARE NOT" "ARE TOO" to either just enjoying the sim or thinking of other things that might make the sim better... IMO it is a meaningless point how you or anyone else feels about the mods... because they are here.

Falke, it is an alternative to what you seem to be complaining about here. I could go either way.

Pike (last page):: Mod cheating is a potential theoretic threat to anonymous public servers, especially to Newbies to the sim before they find friends to play with. However, as of now it seems the old rumours of the "online" sim's demise had been greatly exaggerated....so far...

Beautifully said Pike. Those are not just "nice words," you also help us prove false the idea that modders or mod users in general are insulting Oleg on the forums. Perhaps some are out of honest frustration or dishonest jealousy. I can see the breathing of new life into the sim. Looking at the simhq boards, it seems there are people buying the sim specifically with the intention of modding up -- as a replacement for EAW perhaps (not sure).

The points presented in this discussions are all valid.


The crack is illegal. That's a fact - no debate will change that.

The mods are not illegal in general, but they won't be officially supported and some of them use copyrighted material.

The mods are there, nobody will change that either.

The peoples opinions will always be different and that is not meaningless.


So, to help you out of this, the only way to stop this debate once and for all would be to let this thread die and discuss it somewhere else. As you put it, there are the ones who just enjoy this sim and there are those who enjoy the mods.
Accordingly there is a forum for the mods and official forums for the game. If you really insist to discuss the mods here amongst people who may not like it, will I have your support when I start a thread at the mod-boards where we all keep reminding ourselves that the crack is illegal? Wouldn't that support your idea, too?

I wonder what the on-line population (growth or decline) has been sense the widespread use of "the mods" was introduced?

I understand the point of letting this thread die...and maybe no one will see this comment (LOL). And I was thinking about posting this on the "IL21946 population thread", but they seem to be on a way different trend of thought, so...

People have said that the mods have been good for "new" sales of IL2 1946, and yet if you are to believe the "stats" on the number of players "on-line" their seems to be a decrease (?) in participants...

I'm not trying to prove any point of view, I'm genuinely curious...

Proton:: Modding has created new "word of mouth" sales according to some forum statements, but beyond those statements we won't know if its enough to counteract normal decrease in sim sales near the end of the sim's life. Overall the playing population does not care about personal stats, anymore than people don't care to fill out census forms.

Most players play offline, or if online most play on servers far beyond the famous HyperLobby Stats. From looking at the depth of the AAA forum, I'd guess it takes some time to get up and running with that stuff. I would not expect most Newbies to immerse themselves into modding soon after sim purchase, except perhaps Old Timers from other sims who bought the sim as a moddable replacement for EAW for example, but they are not too many I assume. For most, the sim offers a steep enough learning curve out-of-box without messing around with unauthorized mod installs. However, I have learned to never underestimate the Passion of the computer gamer.

Kindergarten...sachmal merkt ihr es noch? Also echt ...schade um die Zeit die man verschwendet um das hier zu lesen!

Und noch mehr Zeitverschwendung sich dann auch noch daran zu beteiligen. Willkommen in unserer Krabbelgruppe. ;)

Falke:: Yes, the mod boards are where the active community is now. If there were frequent detailed discussions of specific mods here, it might cause: "Oleg my mod don't work, plz fix game." But, no real mod discussion is found here except for the occasional Abstract Mod Theory discussions such as this thread. Since I myself don't use any mods, or Oleg's sim anymore, I can only abstractly theorize about modding in this sim.

You were offered an alternative in a friendly manner. Other than that, we can't help you.

:arrow:He,he,he....Yeah , its a bit like that.:cool:

This dicsussion reminds me of this ...

http://www.softwaremag.com/archive/2...ngItsTail.jpeg

To get it back on track, where the hell are all these mods people are talking about?
I do not have tackir so i cannot use that one. I understand there is a sound mod that helps you hear planes on your six? but bugger if he gets on your six, then hearing him is not exactly going to help, unless you can dodge 30mm cannon shells...
and as for the so-called speed mods they are easy to spot. And the day a Me 109 out turns my i16 then I will really be concerned.
Hope everything is back on track now.
And ps anything that makes a game play better is a good thing. Play Armed Assault and see the difference the sound mods make.
That said, I still do not know where to find them :)
And lastly online is different from offline. Offline you are modding your experience, online you are affecting other players. Most games have strict no-tamper policies in place online, punkbuster etc so why all the fuss. When you play online keep it standard, and when you go offline let your hair down.

Bobb:: Shucks, I don't even have sound on my computer. No speakers, nothing. I jam stereo. It helps me relax during the Dogfight. woof woof

That little exploit is built into the vanilla Il-2 game. You can try to dampen it's immersion killing effect by setting attenuation to 0 in your config.

As others have said thats not a function of the sound mod, the sound mod people discuss was the first mod to come out and had improved engine and gun sounds, the mods have expanded far beyond that but everyone refers to the sound mod only cause that came out first. You can read about the mods at www.allaircraftarcade.com , and learn whats going on there and decide for yourself.

Hello,

I would like to take a completely different standpoint on this whole mod issue that matter to me the most.
While we have also 15, 17, 20 year old guys around who may be enjoying photorealistic brand new spanking WW2 flight sim maybe thirty years from now , for those of us who are over 40 years old , clock is ticking , I may not be here thirty years from now , that's why I couldn't give the slightest damn anymore about the way AAA mods were incorporated in to the game .
What is out there ahead of me ? should I take it or not ? , hearing more realistic engine sounds or not ? craters , less and more realistic dust , new maps etc. ?
Answer is pretty clear for me , I am gonna live my sim to the fullest and will be enjoying any current and future immersion improvement that is not looking arcadish .
My point is , that when there will be someday finally some really @ss kicking WW2 flight sim , I may not be here to enjoy it , so who would blame me that I did take my chances with those AAA mods and am now truly happy .
Just to those younger fans here on this and Ubi and other forums , wait , hold on , stop crying , you may get to see brand new generation of WW2 sim toy to play with..... and your IL2-1946 game with or without AAA mods ? life goes on ......................
Believe me, some people are thinking just like me even if it may sound to some as a little bit extreme.

AFAIC the bottom line is this... These mods are good mods. I haven't tried all of them... No need .. but the ones I have tried are good mods.. and there is nothing I repeat NOTHING out there to top this sim. This sim stock out of the box is still the absolute best WWII combat flight sim made to date.. bar absolutely none. But these mods make it even better... and if it isn't for you then... no problem.. if it is for you then great.. but they are here and they are not going away. You can debate the "issue" till chickens play trumpets.. but in the end.. the mods will still be here.. For me they brought the sim to another level, which I didnt think was possible. The fact that there is not a bunch of rampant cheating online, at least not in the coops i fly in as often as I can, says something about the modders, the mods and the IL2 community in general. All the tension was because many f us , myself included expected the worse.. which never happened, we didn't get the cheats, we didn't get the chintzy mods, and we didn't get the BS mods. Most of the mods that I have seen, even if I didn't try them were practical mods. If you go to the mods Download section there arent a whole lot of nonsense mods.. just things to add flavor to the greatest sim to date. Oleg & 1C couldnt get to it.. NP... Some of those maps are great... and the fact that it builds on 1Cs work.. it is not another sim.. it is IL2 on steriods.. bring it on... I cant wait for BoB.. a whole new engine, better everything.. but i can still enjoy this sim... and I will.. AFAIC 1C gets my $$$ sight unseen for any flight sim they make until they produce a dud... but this one will always have a special place for me, and that place is made even more special by the recent mods.

What BC said

I have separate installs of the sim, i use the stock one for online play and a modded one for single player, the mods are brilliant they add so much more to the sim and have brought it back to life, it is a shame however that Oleg and his boys didn't introduce some of these mods themselves. Maybe he could ask the boys who made these mods for some help and introduce them into 4.09. :)

I don't think that anyone has really disputed the quality of the mods, and I don't think anyone expects them to go away...

I respect your enthusiasm, and perhaps its do (in part) to your initial opposition to the "modding community"...but I don't think that the "virility of the modding community" means that the "modding scene" has to be made "legitimate" by incorporating the mods into future patches. The mods are already available for anyone who wants them...I don't think Oleg needs to waist anymore time on the subject.

LOL...funny stuff! :)

Alright already........... point taken... and I agree with you... This is what.. the third time you have said the same thing in reference to nme based on one statement in this thread hinting @ incorporating thr mods.. I already said it I dont think it's going to happen and like you said it isn't really even necessary... So can you like... find another issue to press when you qwuote me... please... :P

So, when SOW gets here it is supposed to be user moddable for offline play with tools Oleg releases and with Oleg in control of what gets added, right?

What better way to beta test the potential problems such a system may encounter than to stand back and see what talented people can do with tools not officially released and in some cases not even IL2 tools?

Sure, some have trouble with some additional content, I have had a couple of glitches myself but in my case and in most cases it is the users mistake that messes things up and if it is a defect in the mod, those guys are all over the problem till it is solved.

If Oleg is not monitoring the mod site daily and with great interest, I would be very surprised.

And, credit to Oleg and his crew that a sim that was not intended to be modded by outside sources works so well with the mods. They surely built an amazing sim engine for the IL2 series.

Oleg, thanks for IL2 and bring on BOB/SOW, guaranteed sale here.

LOL...sorry.

I guess I've had one of "those days"... :)

What I love about BC style of posting is that he uses lots of dots instead of commas or pauses... making it look... like he's to have a snooze... or he's a very old man... talking calmly... or he's whispering to tame a horse... shhhh... shhhh... :-P

;)

Dot's are good :rolleyes: :-P

Think tempo.. ;)

The power of the dots is that it highlights what you are not saying...(IMO). :)

I use them a great deal myself (maybe not as well as BC), and I can remember a thread some time ago when their where some people who where questioning the perceived "fad" of the "dots". I remember that their was one fellow who was afraid that the misuse of the dots was going to "ruin" "web lingo" and forum communication...

Hmmmm like mods would "ruin" the sim eh.. ;)

Also...3.01 dots were supposed to ... ruin the sim.