then let the devs or the moderators do their own defense; the fact that A insults B doesn't legitimate C insulting A on B's behalf, aside that insult doesn't legitimate insult. it's simple logic applied to some ethic.

besides, YOU of all people to talk about morale. some selective memory that you have about YOURSELF. blatantly calling stupid and the such to others just because you don't like their views. long history of that you have pal...

not personal

agreed. but that's not the end of it...

I get the impression that 1C/COD is waiting to be rescued. A year of updates ( a few empty words and screen shots) an essentially no meaningful progress. Showing us sqreen shots of the BOM,is tantamount to trying to sell us next years DeLorean model. They need to be aquired by a profit driven Western concern to complete the necessary remedies post haste. Unfortunately, flight sims are not in demand relative to other forms of software entertainment.
The reality of the matter is the younger demographics have no problem dropping $ 50-60 on a Xbox game many times over( although my two are in colledge now, they still habitually purchase titles). The big advantage is reliability and user friendly products. No crash to desk top , or lag and slow down of graphics.

Sorry but 1C/Maddox Games is not responsible for you having trouble with yourself, not being able to get over the case of a buggy game. You have trouble with psyche instability, take it somwhere else, maybe medical forum of some sort.

I see a Rule infraction. Others have got demerit point for far less.

I would think most of us would like something that functions as a WWII simulator instead of something that just "looks good".

LOL. i play the game. i'm UFO_113 on ATAG
(http://216.52.148.29:2012/ATAGStats/ATAGStatsV1.html)

the fact is you just can't stand me calling you out. no trouble, i'm not the 'ignore' or 'report' kind of guy, some heated answers aside i take this very sportingly. you're part of the show :cool:

Are DCS games miracles? Looking at Clod the answer seem yes! :grin:
In '80-'90s the answer to criticism to the poor simulator graphics was: Are you mad??? Don't you know how sims are resource-consuming??? I do not think that nothing is changed. When IL-2 was on shelfs was a great game even considering graphics (I remember how fantastic was the demo compared to others sim) and it was not the only case.

i think that they are using The 90% of time in some another Game (maybe in the next CoD). And the 10% in CoD patch.

I think that in their free time they work in CoD PATCH.

Actually I think you'll find the 3D artists are working 100% on the sequel while the coders are working 100% on COD because COD is the engine for the new sequel.......I'm sure this has been explained before.

Explained yes. As yet proven with any degree of confidence, not so much.

I could say the same for the wild and speculative conspiracy theories too.

Guys, please, I am seeing far too many personal attacks (no matter how well wished) for my liking, you guys are risking infractions and bans and, moreover, bringing down the quality of the forums. It's understandable, and I know it feels like the devs have left us here to fester sometimes, but just hold back on it until we see some work on COD to interrogate :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, those of you who tested the beta of DCS BS or Warthog know full well that games take a helluva lot of work to get right, the engine those games used was not new at all, rather an expansion of the old LOMAC engine, and still took at least half a year to get rid of game breaking bugs.

IL2 CloD *needed* this kind of beta test, but it didn't happen, so it seems we're now the beta testers. It's not a perfect scenario, but that's how it is. The engine is almost completely new, and as such there are many, many more bugs than would occur just in an upgrade, and the engine needs a ton more work, as is being currently done. Be patient, it's summertime in the US so you guys should be outside, us winter-folk can find other things to pass the time. And the game is playable (for most) at the moment, even in this half-completed state there are many players on the ATAG and REPKA servers.

So guys, calm down, be patient, if need be take a break from the forum. This engine we have now is incredible in its graphics and physics, consider it as an engine demonstration, I am confident anything built on it in the future (BoM for example) will be fantastic.

Perfect statement! I totally agree on that. Good things need time. Let us stay together and have a good time until the patch is there!!!

+2.

This is a big, complicated piece of software. It is obviously taking a very long time to get it right. They may have overpromised regarding deadlines, but it is what it is. I am looking at the long picture.

Good idea this 'discussion' thread. Imagine what the Update thread would have looked like (again) with all this crud in it.

Summary....
Blacksix: Sorry, nothing new. We're still working on it.
Community: Same old Same old. Pages of it. Nothing new. Still I suppose it lets off steam.

I couldn't agree more!

Flight sims are a niche market - we WANT them - we must prepared to put up with some delays - perhaps we may have to accept paying more for the product if we want it in the future - we don't want to scare developers off from what, for me anyway, is a very big part of our lives!!

Most gaming niche, indie developments are doing just that ATM. It makes business since.

DCS is doing it, with new add ons , and new upgrade supports

Battlefront is doing it with there new Combat Missions series.

just you won't pay for technical updates or patches, just game
engine upgrades and such.

Just bought AeroFly FS and I'm spending some time doing aerobatics on Alps. :) Nuff time to sharpen skills until this patch comes out. It'll be done when it's done. :-P

What he said, pure and simple.

I'm glad that my patience is damn near unlimited, and that if the fears of many forum-dwellers come true (I.e. that CLoD will never be "finished" to an acceptable degree), I'll just write it up as a bad $50 investment. Which, quite frankly, isn't enough to make me get all riled up and get my knickers in a twist, balls in a bunch, and so on and so forth.

But this is the truth... sad but pure truth

"I.e. that CLoD will never be "finished" to an acceptable degree"

109 over speed designs, spitfires ripped off IIa and Ia, curves of speed unaccurate, instruments in IIa are wrong, mixture was buged, and more and more bugs and not accurate settings, engines and balistic.......................................... ....

...
...
...
...
...

..................

We'll see, Felipe. We'll see. Until we do, I'll remain patient. *shrug*

Seems like this, i hope i was very very wrong dear friend... Im very patient too :rolleyes:

At this point I've learned not to read so much in between the lines of what the devs say, nor really try to correct other people.

Some people will take anything to fulfill their desires / expectations / perceptions . . . and reading between the lines does that.

Not to have expectations in specific dates, but to have hope and the updates, while they do not have real meat, are an effort, that the devs are on the hunt and taking care of business.



People will complain, and one can see there is alot more quicker on this update. Before it'd take 2+ pages before the really negative comments roll out, this recent update it was first page.

But let them.


Marketing? how about the game not selling well . . . or the industry standard reviews knocking down this game.

One thing though, is its hard to recover from a bad reputation on the market . . . even though future products / services may be good.

Unless that company , organization falls under the category:

A) powerhouse (AMD)

B) entrenched with a unusual high market share (microsoft, vista and other fubars)

C) has a previous good reputation / track record (toyota)

D) has a fan following (apple)

E) household name / well known branding (pepsi)



amd had few years run of bad chips, ATI card shennanigans

toyota , hiding stuck gas pedal issue even when ppl killed in accidents until it got too much to hide

apple flaw was PC market, being more expensive and not delivering anything above intel based PC's . . . planned obsolescence, and breaking 3 series to force customers to upgrade to 4 series . . . ever try to update apps on a perfectly working 3 iphone a year ago . . .

pepsi was using aborted fetus parts for testing purposes and in formulas . . . Summer Time is Pepsi Time and Live For Now . . . indeed . . . they said they stopped using baby parts . . .


----


As for details . . . like a/c speeds, or CEM bits and pieces . . . I think to devs must fix the game engine to work with everything first then they'll tackle the details . . .


----

programming can be complicated, hence the time its taking, and the more complex things are, the harder it is.

look at this scenario: the Call of Duty series has lots of crew, they have hundreds millions of dollars in profit . . . 24 hours of release, they sold 4.7 millions copies for MW 2 . . . they have power houses in the game programming world, graphic artists, storyboarders, writers . . .

they can get the job done in quick amount of time, a year or two . . .

Their game is complicated with features, but on the complex order say for animals, MW 2 would be a fish, frog, or salamander.

Then you have Cliffs, the complexity (projected future) for its game engine alone is on the order of a ape or chimpanzee. Then you have each aircraft / and then weapons etc . ..


But there is no 300 spartan + 7000 best greek hoplites programmers in the house. there is no US navy of graphics, or US airforce of writers or uS army of q/a teams and nearly unlimited supplies / budget that the Fish / Frog / Salamander complicated game has .

Without the excessive quality and numbers that MW 2 commands, getting a working game in 1-2 years isn't a reality for the Ape / Chimpanzee game team.

That is why this game is taking a long time. Its complicated, much more than the top 40 games; they don't have the numbers and money that "other popular games" have. They do have a talented team, however its small scraps (in terms of numbers) compared to what MW 2's team roster can muster on a bad day when everyone's calling in sick, dead, or the dog ate the tablet scenario.

So its taking time.



---------

You're talking about another 6 or 7 years ? :shock:

This project is being worked on a demand basis. the devs want you shouting and raving about getting the patch, thats the demand aspect.

the demand aspect fuels the supply aspect. as long as you lot are ranting and raving about it all, the devs are smiling because they know you want what they are making. and i guess they will attempt to supply that.

Nothing is going to speed it up. Its finished when its finished anything else is below par. have we not already experienced this ?

personally i dont want anything from it. there really is better fish to fly lol. i consider my 30 GBP the first sacrifice ive had where demand is concerned. i wont make this mistake again.

here is a fact im quite happy with. i want working top of the line flight-sim, without any lies, and with a clear end goal and constructive approach to getting to that goal. its as simple as that. working as intended.

i wont be happy or content...
1 if CLOD requires any other payware.
2 if CLOD succesfully patched, ill give them a second chance. but CLOD better blow me away, the 101 hours ive spent in it must still be blown away by the expereinces with that.
3. if clod isnt patched to my expectation, you dont get another sale 1C, its as simple as that.
4. if CLOD gets superceeded by your next product entirely, you dont get that sale either.
5. if you continue to pay me disrespect through moderators own person opinion and personal interpretation of the rules that takes me to the extent of getting banned. you dont get a sale.

i wont stop commenting untill the outcome of this is confirmed and put to bed. but believe me and i think i speak for most people here 1C, you better get your cards in order with what you deem acceptable next time we have financial dealings with you. and interuption to the patch via this new title you and you only that deem acceptable. IS NOT ACCEPTABLE ! i wont be manipulated and i dont think anyone else will be now.

wether we speak now or later, there is only 1 loser and thats you 1C. Ive got other enjoyable simulators to play around in. you dont. its your business. its your carreer, "normally" people have some pride in that. pick your path and please this community.

You've spent 30 GBP for 101 hours of entertainment and you still want to be 'blown away'? Wow... tough crowd. I got 15 hours of entertainment from Max Payne 3 for $60, and consider it money well spent. I've not got a lot more in CloD... perhaps 20 hours, and I'd also consider that money well spent, though it's not nearly the hour/dollar value I've gotten out of IL2 with perhaps 2500 virtual hours over 7 years of online play.

I want to see well-populated servers running a variety of missions and gameplay parameters, and I think I've got another 2-4 months to wait. I'd bet most of the performance issues will get ironed out within the next 2-3 weeks, but online really needs a dedicated client, and I'm not sure where we are with that. But I've still gotten plenty of entertainment out of CloD even in it's current state.

Been there, Done that, but I were you I wouldn't hold my breath on this.

Ok thats enough dont you think? I have just read all your latest posts over the last 6 months and its clear you dont like the game or have a very high opinion of 1C so I suggest you go find something else to do. You have continually attacked the devs and anyone that says anything contrary to your view. Enough! Last warning, your not being constructive your just being abusive and it wont be tolerated.

Good grief! How on earth do you survive in today's world with such a sense of entitlement? I'm saddened that the sim seems to have stalled but I have had many hours entertainment with it.

You do not speak for me. Not now, not ever. Some of us are far more patient than others, and I'd daresay that the silent majority of the boards far outweigh the screamers. Yes, we all want the game to be fixed to a high standard, but some of us are willing to wait for that to happen. And if it doesn't, well, them's the breaks, really. At that point I've spent some money on a product that turned out to be less than stellar, and that's OK. I got enjoyment out of it even if it wasn't perfect.

And in the end, that's all it comes down to: Each of our own sense of enjoyment.

What's the point in showcasing models for an upcoming sequel when the mechanics that this sequel will presumably use remain far, far from perfect? I am sorry, I don't post here much and read around a bit more than that, but I am beyond confused with 1C company logic. I find the whole "update" process quite insulting to be honest.

Even though you (and the rest of the human race) are the current iteration of the 3 Billion years of selective breeding that has been forced on to you a harsh and malevolent God, it is quite obvious that you are still far from perfect, And you expect a computer game costing $17.00 to be perfect? Go figure! ;)

LOL ! What a bullsh*t comparison. Impudence and the ability of making abusive comments seems to be the result of "tried and failed selective breeding". Hmmm...seems that the best of me dropped on the cave floor some billion years ago. ;)

Why not? The 3D modelers have nothing to do with coding the game engine, and I'm happy to see them still employed creating new aircraft models (the best evidence available the dev team is still committed to the sim and moving forward.) Why shouldn't they post the fruit of their labor? It's aircraft models... we wouldn't be here if we weren't passionately interested in WWII aircraft.

I'd rather see that then pictures of game engine coders staring at lines of code on a monitor. That's somewhat more relevant to moving the current state of the game forward, but visually it's as interesting as watching paint dry. More aircraft!

Given that these modellers have already worked on the numerous errors posted in the bugtracker site instead of painting impressing La- whatevers. Greetz Allons!

Someone knows how many copies were sold of the CLOD? thanks

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/i...iffs-of-dover/

That is: 18.xxx copies worldwide with mostly 9k in 2011 and 9k in 2012

Thanks for the info ...

18k copies actually a mega failure, ahead of big game developers considering 100k copies a failure ...

I've been analyzing that there is this patch is released or are just buying time?

To this amount of sales actually his interest in pleasing the audience is very small. If it exists!

Now I understand why they try so hard to divert attention to the BOM with screeshots and reports on the development of the sequel.

Where are we going to stop?

Seems to be retail only though. So all the digital copies aren't counted, nor do I see the yuplay/1C sales (Russia) listed.
But even with those added, the numbers won't be high and are unlikely to cover the cost of developing it.

18k copies might be a failure if you're talking about an MMO or an FPS/RTS, but you must remember that this is neither. This is a high-fidelity WW2 flightsim, which is a market that's incredibly narrow and has a very small fanbase in general. Is 18k copies low? In raw numbers, yes, it is. Viewed in light of how few simmers on this level there actually is, it might not be all that low.

What I want to know, however, is where vgchartz gets their numbers from. I don't trust anything when it comes to third-party reportingsites for sales/subscribers, through long experience with MMO's.

Looking at it this way ... you're right!

Sorry, I don't get these arguments that the developers are 'buying time' or dragging their feet in any way. Nor do I understand the complaints that they should hold back on work to the sequel until CloD is fully fixed.

They have no doubt generated the bulk of the sales from CloD as it stands and need more revenue to keep developement going. They cannot release a sequel until the code is fixed so the coming patch is an absolute essential priority for them plus any more that may follow. Once the code is fixed and CloD works as it should then the first thing people here will be clamouring for is the next theatre. And wouldn't they be weed off if Luthier then said, 'Ok guys, we'll start work right away so should be done in a year or two or so.'

This way CloD will be fixed as soon as and the sequel will follow as the bulk of the 3D modeling and maps will be done and the engine will be the same.

Hopefully reviews and sales of the sequel will be much better than cloD. You desk pilots will be happy bunnies (yeah right) and future developement will continue as per IL2.

I for one will buy the sequel on release if only to do my tiny bit to keep the whole show rolling along in return for hours of fun.

I wonder who of the simming community would take the game only per download when we all love thick handbooks, printed cards and stuff like this. OK lets take another 10% of steam-only copies. Revenuewise we have to take into account the massive falling of current prices. Greetz, Allons!

P.S. When the engine is fixed i will buy BoM as well right away, if the fixed engine comes with BoM and is told to work with CoD i will wait until all here claim the engine as working.

I bought 2 digital versions (russian and international) as downloads and the collectors edition. I know 2 squadies bought it from Steam. 4:1 for download sales in my experience.

This makes too much sense and we don't roll that way around here :-P

On a serious note, that's my take on things as well:

Engine is common -> fix the engine

3d models are different and done by different people -> give them something to work on while the programmers fix the engine, so that it doesn't take another 7 years for the sequel.

S!

Let's hope they pull it off as today I had some memorable moments while playing offline campaign by DS. Taking off in that Bf109E-1 as being in a 2nd line unit and a fresh pilot to fly over Dunkerque, engage fighters and try to survive it all and navigate back home admiring the slowly rising sun and waking up France. CoD has it's moments and I really hope from bottom of my heart that Luthier and his team can save it and make it prosper to East and also towards Mediterranean and beyond :D

+1 Flanker but its even nicer in a Bf110 :grin:

I'd buy a CE of CLoD today if I could find one for sale the US. The only thing I see is eBay sales. 1C or their US publishers need to find a way to market the more expensive physical versions in the US, and include enough quality items to make it desireable. Build it *and sell it here* and we will come.

I think most people on these forums will buy BoM despite what they quite legitimately complain about here. Why? Because they are sim/combat enthusiasts and can't wait for a new arena to play in. There are a handful here that won't, those that have no real interest in those sims or CoD. For most of us CoD and BoM will be our playground. For that handful these forums are their playground. If only they would just fade away.

troll!!

I fear that some dedicated fans of IL-2 series will die sooner than MG will release their patch, having in my how old some of the members are...

Guys, this is same story all the time... It started with evil Ubisoft, epilepcy filter, engine, DX9 support - you name it...

I just dont understand how some of you can still say to other to wait and be patient. All of us waited like 7 years, now some of the former community wait for one year and half and ... nothing... it is together 8,5 years... and what do you have ? buggy simulator with no game content in it at all... no SDK, no NOTHING.

Ok, let me be more constructive - here is my idea for the name of next sequel:

Il-2 Sturmovik - World of Russian Warplanes MMO - Storm of War series - Cliffs of Dover 2 without Cliffs of Dover - Su-26 exclusive package.

Here is first screenshot:
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...0224_27_IF.jpg

The point is this. 1C should not be teasing a new product in order to placate the masses, like it's not going to inherit all the same problems that the old one suffers with. It is insulting to the intelligence of a "mostly loyal" customer base and smacks of head in the sand mentality. Imagine if you took your new(ish) car back to the dealership for the umpteenth time so that you could have it fixed, only to discover the manufacturer was already promising a shiny new version, showing off the newly moulded bodywork and so on, with rank disregard for all the current imcumbent's inherent issues.

I just think it is plain rude.

There's a few thousand differences between a computer-game and a car. While I agree that it's somewhat iffy to showcase a new product while we're waiting on The Patch™ for CLoD, car-analogies are getting severely old. If I dished out as much for CLoD as I did a new car, you can be sure I'd be crucifying whoever sold me the car. But since a new car here in Norway is at least three digits (we're talking 250 000 NOK compared to.....what, 250 to 300 NOK?) away from the cost of a computergame....meh.

I did say earlier that I didn't spend much time writing or reading on these boards so apologies for the car comparison. ;)

But you've got to admit the tactic of releasing screenshots from a sequel which will inherit the very same engine is wearing quite thin.

Ok, to use the car analogy. CloD is like a new car you have bought with a distinctly underwhelming engine. You hear the car maker is bringing out the next model with a super powerful engine. You are rightly niffed. But then the car maker tells you that as soon as the new engine is ready they will fit one in your old car completely free of charge as a matter of policy. And of course you can also buy their new version with the newly molded bodywork etc. and still have the new engine fitted to your old one.

It's fun; this thread changes every half hour ...

It's all well and good saying that, Fjordmonkey! Now imagine if you had a car analogy that was getting old and other people on the forum started hawking their new and improved car analogies! How would you feel then? eh? EH? :D

MG should have worked on a expansion pack for CloD with new planes, content, SDK... Not be skipping to the Russian front. That's what happens when the devs are mostly Russian.

+1
Totally agree with you Editor,there was so much more to develop with COD too,the Battle of Britain had so much going for it in terms of expansion,I could'nt believe the day they announced that they would'nt be creating anything more for it:confused:

it's friday again \o/

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip...an-wants-a-wii

Too true.... "Waiting for Christmas.... TIMES 1000"

............Yeah,but Santa's stuck up the chimney or so it would seem:lol:

Well light the fire and see what the bugger does.

But in the chimney of a neighbor unfortunately..

They just need to finish comparability with MS DOS 6.2 and I'll be happy.

Can't believe CloD won't run on my 486..

B6 announced screenshots of a nuclear bomb so we will probably see a Fitschi addon :grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iu-v1FJN98