I'm having all of my potential pilots register on the campaign website and we will fly six pilots for any given mission based on who is available on the day.

I'm basically assuming that No.401 has 6 spots reserved. As long as my pilots are all registered, it doesn't really matter which 6 guys we put in the air, just that we can't put up 7.

I'm fine with that because I'm certain not all of our pilots will be able to attend every mission. So we should always have five or six in the air.

When I gave my 6 average, it wasn't based on how many would sign up, it was based on how many we'd actually have arrive on the day.

May I ask what the '+' in front of the names is for?

Is it for 'backup' pilot or 'public/tagalong' pilot?

I'm assuming it's backup, or registered and ready to fly in case of a no-show from the squadron.

The + indicates a pilot over the amount originally stated. Just ignore it ;)


Ive recounted, I got the figures wrong, I had counted SL'ers twice in some Squadrons. My fault but this works out well.

Blues have 49 out of 45+9. Reds have 48 out of 45.

Totalling 97 Players with 100% turn out.


REDS: 7+8+8+6+3+13+3 =48 (including Aborted Man :-P )
BLUES: 14+3+8+8+7+6+4 =50

TOTAL RED & BLUE 98/99 With 1 Spare blue places.

P.S. Everyone got a PM on SoWC about the start date so please pass the word.

How daft am I...

I didnt realise registration was over allready:evil:

Well, I hope you guys are having fun!

Sorry Borris,

I tried to get hold of you :( I know you have been very interested in flying in our campaign for a long time.

Excellent Farber, that's what I thought originally, that's fine.

You'd be fine to put in 7 if 501 only had 5 though. ACG have 18 red and 6 blue, though blue are isolated.

Just activated 3 accounts. (2 were accounted for, 1 not.) - Osprey :) I take it you've had some new recruits, Ive had two recently also. We will have to take care not to exceed our quotas.

So there we are, at 99. :rolleyes:


Not to worry, when did you ever get 100% attendance from 99 people?

Thanks Farber. Got a little confusing there near the end :)

I've informed the pilots of the situation. Looking forward the event.

S!

Thanks for the quick action on my late request, the both of yas.

Tell me about it, maybe it gives everyone an insight and apprciation of the involvement my team and I are putting into this campaign for the community... ;)

Having attempted a few smaller scale events myself, I have an idea of the kind of work you guys must be putting in on this and, believe me, it is very much appreciated.

Dont thank us just yet, server might implode?! :-P

that's fine, maybe I was slow :) have fun guys!

I think building the maps, setting up a server and website are an indication of some of the efforts required Farbs, looking forward to it! :)

I did tons for USL for about 3 or 4 years straight, mostly making intricate maps and testing them, it IS a lot of unseen work that many take for granted unfortunately.

JG26 question:
is it still possible, that new recruits will take part in the campaign, who are not yet registered?
as it is, JG26 is continually growing, and the result is now, that we have at least 2 members, who didnt register for the campaign yet.
will it possible for them to fly with us in the campaign?

5./JG27 has the same problem Im afraid. I will have to keep to the official line, "dont exceed your quota!". ;)

You can register them but ^

I'm interested in playing this as an axis player.

We would love to have you but its full Im afraid. Sorry. :(

Cannot connect due to password bug.

Follow password tutorial ;)

All good here, thanks for all your hard work guys.

I'm disappointed. Got up at 05.30am on a Monday morning hoping to squeeze into a vacant allied slot (or at least listen in on TS) only to find no server online, no-one on TS & game over :( First post in this thread says battle was scheduled for "8pm European time (To Be Confirmed) 17th June 2012". I converted this to 06.00am Monday in Eastern Australian time, assuming 'European time' meant GMT.

This morning I find a late post at SOW forums (posted while I was alseep) saying time is "TONIGHT 17/06/2012 START TIME 2pm Eastern/7pm UK/8pm Euro Password for 17/06/2012 is .... "

Looks like battle was really about 04.00am on a Monday morning Aussie time (GMT+10) :( Good luck to the Euro & US pilots playing this series, those in the Oceania timezones are left out yet again.

Real thing next week! Glad it was ok. Stats are up at SoWC. Usual stat bug bears so dont whine. I scored two victories but it gave one to a JU88 for example... ;)

Also no despawn script so if you dont dont down it, it wont be a kill... If it gets back to base and lands, its safe!

Sorry to hear that Salmo but I never converted the time to Oz, so you only have yourself to blame mate... The server was started at 8pm Euro...

There were discussions early on about trying to adjust start-time to accomodate Oceania pilots, which has apparently not come to fruition. The battle is scheduled for the convenience of UK/Euro/US pilots only. Again, GL to all pilots flying in this battle, you won't find any Aussie or New Zealanders, or any of the Oceania timezone pilots joining you, since battle-start is 4am Monday morning for us. I hope that future battles can be scheduled to include as many of the comminuty as possible.

Sorry Salmo and Oz/NZ pilots. Our aim was to try and accomidate them! However our server admin works saturday adn with the work he has put in to not allow him to take part really would be a shame...

I totally sympathise with OZ/NZ players who as English speakers are seperated by time and often left out of campaigns and special fixures. Sorry for any inconvience or dismay this may have caused.

Salmo have you ever considered setting up a group with OZ/NZ pilots in mind- red and blue? You would have our full support and we could even supply you with missions etc... ;)

There was some confusion about the time of the mission this weekend if you weren't on the forums or checking regularly. A few of my guys ended up joining late or not at all. We'll sort out a better way to keep everyone informed.

The bigger issue was the single digit frame rates when getting engaged with the enemy. I'm hopeful that it won't play out that way during the campaign. It seemed to get the worst when we had bombers and enemy fighters in the same area.

The time was my fault! -although I did make a post and send everyone a PM!

The mission was an extreme example! Although most people reported positive results!

S! :-P

Got reports from pretty much every Red flier on coms about the frames. It was positive in that it didn't crash ;) We'll see if it gets that bad next Sunday.

Yes it didn't crash but frames were <1 in the big mash-up. I don't know if blues had the same thing because they seemed to be getting hits on target. Once the main group had broken up then frames were fine.

Question though. At the scramble bases in the map will all squadrons be available? What I mean is that I can choose #501 as the squadron from any of the bases. We need the codes when forming up.

Yes.

Did you all restart your machines before the battle or had they been on all day? I was getting about 25 frames minimum during the raid by the 27 Ju88's... It was bearable.

All those fps drops were caused by bombers leaking fuel and coolant. Smoke behind theme is just frame killer so You have to have rally good hardware to survive furballs like that with no fps drop. That was only for test purpose, and there will not be 40+ contacts around You during campaign. Hoping for patch next week, or new graphics card and RAM.

Osprey and Wolverine what are your system specs?

We were the first group in to attack them and there were no leaks at that point. It seemed to be a pure numbers problem.

I have a good rig Farber, i5 2500k and 560Ti twin frozr.

That is mid set Osprey, it's ok but not "good". Bombers could be shoot by artillery as well. Anyway it's the game problem not server.

I had to roll my drivers back 2 years to get what I have now... :rolleyes: Lets hope official Grail patch arrives Friday...

Dev, it's not a mid set, it's high end. It may be for this game though since anyone with a real 'mid set' can't actually play - I always buy just off the top and I'm not due an upgrade for a little while. The 560Ti is ranked 18th at the moment - 3DMark performance is 75% of the GTX680 - the present leader. The i5 2500k is (perhaps was now) the fastest retail chip in the World when OC'd. I'd hate to think what you consider obsolete ;)

Other than that yes, it's a game problem.

Osprey, pleas mate don't argue for no reason. If someone ask You about spec be more specific, maybe then someone will poit Your problem. If You say I5 2500k and GeForce560 that means medium range system. What about rest? Motherboard chipset(at least x58 is high end), RAM frequency voltage and timing, processor speed and temperatures, your Is Your gtx 560 1GB VRam or what 3GB vRAM is minimum for high end spec, What is Your hard drive speed, maybe SSD? How is Your system healthy, drivers, windows registry? Game resolution? If You had High end spec 6 months ago, You have to add 500euros today to have it high end. Send Your full spec then I can help You.


P.S just move that discussion to Technical threads section. This thread is about campaign, not technical problems...

People, the issue is the same regardless of the server or ping. See the thread on the fastest public us based server ATAG, they have the same issues. Not a lot to do with the server.

ATAG stutters

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32222

I always flew bombers in IL-2 and have been giving the Bf-110 a try and the multi engines flying in groups cause all types of issues never mind there are some issues with the damage effects causing even more pauses and stutters intermittently.

When I was living in NZ and playing IL-2 on a US server I had a 150-200 or so ping, yet my frame rates where fine and lag was not a huge issue.

Even with the new graphics of Clod we should be able to tune our video settings for sp or mp for whatever FPS you like, (me im happy with 30+ some want 50-60) and always have a satisfactory experience. The server ping or speed is not really the issue. (though a higher ping will cause lag but not these freeze ups.)

The issue is still Clod MP is broken. So lets hope they fix it one day so we can experience the simulation we purchased working as intended.

Peace.

Farber asked me, not you. Very condescending and patronising, mostly guff from a charlatan.

I asked You nicely Osprey, Farber has minor knowledge about computers, just tried to help. Now I see that You are just posting something for no reason. I am just going to ignor it from now on...

Osprey, Vogler does actually know allot more than me. :oops:

Anyway, lets not get bogged down with who thinks what. Thats not the point of the campaign, its to fight in the air, not on the forums!

Lets leave it in the air ;)

intel i7 940 processor
12gb ram
eVGA 580 GTX w/ 1.5 gb ram
Game running from OCZ Vertex 2 SSD
Cable internet connection at 28mbps down, 1mbps up
Windows 7 Pro
Hardware sound (CL x-fi)
TrackIR 5


I don't have bad hardware. My rig is probably one of the better ones playing and I have worked on it to make sure it runs nice and lean. I had one of the better pings on the server too (not that that really matters anymore) and my connection is very stable.

Sorry for the late reply.

Like I said before. Hopefully it won't be as bad on the day. It would be very interesting to have everyone take note of their lowest and highest frame rates during the mission. I doubt the issue is a red/blue one and that everyone will get the slowdowns we saw if they are engaging the same way we are.

Keep in mind: the RAF fighters are going to be aiming towards the bomber formations for their attacks. Luftwaffe fighters don't have to do that. If the frames get bad pointing in that direction, they can just wait a second and engage when the RAF fighter comes away from the bombers. It's unfortunate, but that is a sort of advantage.

But who cares. I just want to try this and get flying in a real Battle of Britain situation with real pilots involved. I'm tired of having to choose between playing against humans on dogfight servers or AI in BoB situations.

Roll on Sunday...though it's unfortunate also that the England/Italy fixture is that day :P Hmmm choices....

I know what Ill be choosing and it wont be men from all four corners of the Earth wearing England shirts... :-P

Sorry, just don't appreciate someone telling me my system is lower spec than it is just because some people have enough cash to blow on quad 680's. Had I supplied a dxdiag and output from perfmon you couldn't have told me anything else from that. It's more than enough for the game max'd out 19x12, the game is failing, not my machine.

England won last night topping the group which means the next match is 1945 on Sunday :( Even though I would die pretty much straight away anyway I'm not missing the match, my apologies in advance.

What time is the game on? I looked it up but all I can find out is its England V Germany and its in Brazil and Starts at 10am ET... WTF is ET? :rolleyes:

England are playing italy 7.45pm uk time sunda so will miss the first one :(
Also the final is the sunday after so will miss it then too if england make it............ So should be around lol

The Final is on the Sunday? Crazy! ET = Extra Time, ie the match went into ET.

Something else Farber, Duxford Flying Legends is also Sunday 1st July. I won't get home until late, nor will some others I suspect. This sucks, been waiting god knows how long for this and now miss the first 2 weeks! :cry: This must be the most frustrating game ever made :bashheadagainstwallhard:

Yea so the football should in all likleness be over by this sunday for England fans, German fans will miss out though. :-P

or "they think its all over"

eh? :grin:

I'm starting to wonder about Farber's national loyalties.......:rolleyes:

National lo... What? :confused:

Lets not even have this discussion. ;)

Bad for us too
 

I'd only scape up two of us that evening.

56RAF_phoenix

You'll be fine :-P

401 Sqn SoW Campaign Mission 1
 

Great effort today guys. I could sense a new dynamic among the squadrons just in knowing we had over sixty pilots engaged in one mission. There was certainly a buzz over the Teamspeak Comms seeing so many Spits and Hurricanes warming up and taxiing across the airfield to take off. We will continue to work on our formation flying and tactics within 401 Sqn and hopefully improve inter Sqn coordination as well.

Suggestion next time send the slower Hurricanes our first, Spits can catch up and still provide cover. By the time we got on station our "cover" had already engaged the Ju 87s so when we got there the 109s were waiting. Better show next time.

I also think that those who rack up quick scores early will have a lot more to loose in the coming weeks so the more aggressive among us who seem untouchable now, my not be so quick in the weeks ahead if they stand to loose it all on one bad call. Should be interesting to see this play out.

Many thanks to all of you who have worked very hard to build and maintain the forum, created the missions and manage the server, programming, and database management. Cheers!

We should save any tactics talk for the Red forums on the campaign forum. Loose lips and all that!

ok...for the JG26 it was a really bad start with the campaign, unfortunately.
yesterday there were 5 of us.we all were punctually.then trying to connect, one of us got this server fail authentification message(i remember having this a month or so ago, where you tested your server)
it was JG26_Hessle, he just couldnt connect.he tried plenty of times with no joy.
so only 4 of us were left.
then when finally the mission began, we saw only JG27 airfields, but we took the one i was given in the forum, the far left in C6/7 i think.
we all spawned, and there were already other squads on the airfield taking of like crazy over the taxi ways.i feared, that one of those "lunatics":grin:
would finally crash into us, but in the end, we all lined up with the runway and took off.
but it didnt matter anyway, because after we went out for the channel following our course, suddenly three of us had a launcher crash in the exact same moment.:evil:
it happened approximately 15min after take off.i was really pissed of, as the one left of our squad,JG26_Pitti, had contacts and a good fight with hurris only 2min later.
really frustrating experience yesterday

I enjoyed the flight however was dismayed to find that although we got to the ships in good time we were already too late. The radar had already plotted EA's heading south over Le Harve. We (501 and 56) circled for about 20 mins hoping for some targets (our only way to score) only to be massacred by 109's.

I don't know how the map was built but I was under the impression that bombers would be escorted and would arrive at a time which could be engaged. How long from the start of the mission where the bombers on their way in? And were they airstarted? I assume some timings were checked on the map, so how was this done? If it were a straight scramble then that won't work in game, we need far more time to connect, spawn and sort out our general amateurishness in order to have a chance of engagement.

Glad 401 enjoyed it. :-P

JG26, Sorry to hear you had launcher crashes. My wingman who has been working tirelessly with me on tactics and teamwork also had a CTD. 5 of our group turned up 1 hour late aswell :(
There is a tutorial on the SoWC for inputting the password because it causes "server fail authentification" which either goes away after several minutes or not until the server restarts. We cant restart the server for one person.

Osprey,
You had 46 minutes. The Ju87's airspawned after 10 mins and took 36 minutes to be on top of target.

Hi Farber
 

I was busy till 4:00pm cst, could I have still flown the campaign?

Scramble times
 

Ack 36 minutes to bomber attack, but like some of you we were still sitting on the ground fifteen minutes after start (my launcher crashed at 13 minutes but that's a problem on my end due to wireless connection issues).

That's not a programming or scenario problem, that's a coordination issue in trying to get multiple sqns out of an unfamiliar airfield. As I said, we will improve our coordination, tactics not withstanding.

10 mins into mission they airspawned, they then flew for 36 mins until over target. Thats 46 mins ;)

That's really interesting because we started on time right? 1900, and the football was on at 1945, of which I missed the first 2.5 mins. Did we start late? If I could be bothered I'd ask for the maps and trial run it out of curiosity :rolleyes:.

DNR is correct, getting up was a nightmare even with comms and discipline, we didn't know where to go on the airfield and we had some guys just not used to it. This is excellent practice, but obviously if we were at our home fields that we know well then we'd be away quite a lot quicker.

All in all 71st had a good time. Out of 12 slots ,11 showed (1 was hour late no. 12 lol) 1 shot down, an 1 ctd . How many bombers were really in the air? Salute cya next week thanks for the hard work,.

Hi osprey yesterday i down you.
You must know that we was escorting the 110 ( 2 110s) when 110 was begining the attack we watch you. And 109 attacked you and your partner .
The next time you must wait when you baild out because i dont have any down because you disconeted :oops:


Salutes

You also bailed out Osprey, I didnt get back for 70 mins. However I didnt intend to watch the footy. Getting off the gorund quickl is something we practice quite allot at 5./JG27, simply for this reason ;)

JTDawg, thanks, there were only 9 Ju87's (plus players?) in total and also at least 4 bf110 (all players). Good interception by 71st ;)

In RL we'd be flying a standing protection patrol over a convoy, not reacting to a radar report of a buildup of bombers (=airstart).
That would give much better opportunity to react appropriately.

56RAF_phoenix

It was a small raid, Jerry caught you off guard ;)

Dont know, It started at 2Eastern.

This is the thing.

Maybe the bombers shouldn't airstart, but rather start on the ground. Is that an issue with the mission builder?

I agree, getting off the ground quickly is very important. However, when you spawn all over the g'damn airfield with multiple squadrons, getting sorted out isn't a matter of 'JUST GO GO GO!'. Even if we'd been clockwork in it, we still wouldn't have had the last squadron in the air until 15 to 20 minutes in.

I'm going to recommend we have each squadron taking off from its own airfield to eliminate a bit of the 'I'm to your left...past the 501 guy... no let him go first...who's that spitfire? get moving, will ya?' etc.

That part of the map is difficult as there isnt much room. Especially to the South. I really think MG should have given us more room in France. 60 miles NW of London to 60 miles South of Paris and all the way East to the tip of Holland.

Right now for the other technical bit. You could have 9 bombers as part of a group (9 is max for a bomber flight) take off at the same time however they wouldnt fly well together and would be miles apart. Those Stuka, I can't make them each attack ther own ship. I had to make each Kette (3) attack a ship... The other alternative is to make each Stuka its own flight and have them attack a seperate ship... Then what you would have had is 9 Stuka flying in a massive stretched out conga line... :rolleyes:

Imagine the nightmare of synchronising 3 bomber groups to one formation from either the same airfield or different ones?! - Basically impossible. Hence airspawn out of sight of players is the best option. Also the time stamp on a way point is pretty basic. Its smallest unit is the minute, meaning it could be :01 or :59 seconds of that minute... You can fly along way in a minute when your ment to be in a tight formation.

So yes there are limits... It would nice if you could create an "air group" and said go here, then there and these are your tagets X, Y and Z. Then the air group could assign individual aircraft to targets depending on losses or prioity... But you cant :(

Another thing to point out is that the Stuka airspawn on TTime 10 mins into the mission at 500 metres before climbing to altitude. They started at the edge of the map to the South.


As for Airbases the RAF for some reason just didnt use as many as the Germans. Shame we dont have the Gladiator for the fleet air arm... Another Red base was opened on the Red side on request.

thats true!i would prefer to take off from our JG26 home base at Audembert as well, and be the only squad with this homebase.
this way, we could at least make sure, that nobody is taking off on the taxiways...

I don't understand the bail out suggestion posed to me. I bailed out because I was dying in the pit, you can check the stats for that. Once I B/O I disconnected, I don't see why I would need to hang around.

Regarding the mapping I am a little concerned that our target were 2 Bf110's and a small Stuka raiding party - that pretty much makes it impossible to win the campaign because there aren't targets for us although we are targets ourselves (and the Hurricane is a death trap). Historically speaking the RAF ignored 'bait' like that and only came up for the big raids because they didn't want to waste pilots. The moral, big raids in one place please, just like in real life :)

Farbs, you can make squadrons follow each other so building a big raid should be a problem. Also, the whole squadron will not go for the same target if there are plently of targets about, so if you put in lots of ships and have the squadron attack the middle one then they should all attack the other ships too. Failing that try 'attack area'. At the end of the day the ships don't matter to either side so who cares if they don't attack or attack on ship anyway?

Its an old bug from IL2 1946. If your plane is going to crash and is out of control or you bail out you have to wait until the aircarft and pilot touch the ground. This way it has more chance of showing on the stats. ;)


I cant make anyone fly how you want but dont worry, if you like big raids you are going to love some of the missions I picked. I had to scale one mission down twice because it kept crashing the FMB. It was 90 Ju88's, I scaled it down to 54 and then again. Then I also had to half their bomb load as that too was crashing my FMB.

I thought once the selected target was destroyed the others would not bother. Also the ships were not statics, they were moving targets. Using bomb area would have been sh£ty, especially with dive bombers.

Anyway for all its worth and if you care to score it, the blues are only slightly in the lead. Nothing that cant be reversed. ;)

Great fun today. Not sure if it was just me but my game was a sli de sh ow in a massive engagement with the emeny. Good stuff, keep it up guys.

Yes same here all 71st had same issue , Keep up the hard work salute!!

Spent a lot of time keeping altitude against expected bombers before deciding there weren't any and got stuck intO the 109s low over Dover.

Felt better about the Hurricane but hard to put my finger on why.

109 eventually got my elevator and ailerons. Ditched :(

Thanks guys. Looking forward to the next one.

Had a lot of fun too. Didn't experience any lag whatsoever apart from a half-second freeze on finals.

Klem, I was the 109 that climbed away south after putting some holes into Rumba, you made a bit of a mess of my right wing on the way back up, S!

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...BA346FD12E65A/

I clearly remember hitting your right wing and I think I hit you two other times, once around the tail. Not much damage though is there :(

I'm glad they've got the DeWilde hit splats working again. Not sure about the tracers, they look a bit too much like those pearly strings you get from AAA, perhaps they are too large? Not sure, I'll have to think about that.

I'm not a fan of the new tracers, especially when flying red. They are very distracting now and after some testing I don't feel they are showing the correct point of impact. I think I'll be going back to my no tracer loadout.

I'm curious to hear what red pilots thought about the performance of the 100 octane variants. It's very important these are tested as they should be the exclusive fighter type for online play with the Spit Ia & 109 being a very close match. The community fought so long & hard to get these models included so it's disappointing to see them being used so little on ATAG.

I've flown the Ia-100 octane and IIa online (ATAG Server) for a couple of patrol sorties at 18,000 feet between Dover and Dungeness (the "English point"). Got in a couple of dogfights with 109's at various altitudes and situations. However, my observations would be purely anecdotal with no data, charts, or graphs to support them. Also, a couple of random engagements are hardly enough to form any opinion or conclusion, and certainly subject to change as I fly 'em more. But, here's my initial thoughts:

1) Ia -- at first blush, disappointed. Going "through the gate" seemed to produce more noise and vibration, but little increase in performance. Using the overboost at 3000 rpms produced, after an estimated 30 seconds, a lot of oil on the windscreen when I tried, unsuccessfully, to outclimb a zooming 109 (he had energy advantage on the zoom). The Ia at 2650 rpms and 6.5 lbs boost felt "heavy" and slow to climb to patrol height (50% fuel load). To anyone, though, I'd be the first to say Your Mileage May Vary. It's never a good idea to do what I did, though: go straight into an online combat environment without first "wringing out" a modded plane to get a solid idea of what it can/cannot do. I didn't win any victories over the 109's I engaged, but felt lucky to escape with a few holes and streaming glycol.

2) IIa -- felt like a different plane altogether. At 6.5 lbs/2650 rpms/50% fuel was able to climb ~3000 fpm at 180 mph IAS to 18,000 feet. Felt "nimble & spirited" at all engine settings. At sea level at full boost (no ammo) was able to keep ahead for full Channel crossing of 109E4, neither gaining nor giving ground. This was observed by two fellow Spits flying high above that bounced and ultimately splashed my target-fixated pursuer (which is how I know it was an E4!) The needle was bouncing, but quick glances showed ~280 IAS at sea level at full overboost (12 lbs now?). I engaged in 4 individual dogfights with 109's at relatively high altitudes (est 15 - 18K feet). In each case we spotted the other at roughly the same time. I felt from co-energy/co-alt encounters the 109 had the edge in climb, but not so much that I felt frustrated as in countless times with the earlier patch. Not the same advantage as the 1.59590 "retail patch" where the uber-IIa can charge up the hill to overtake a climbing 109. Playing the angles there's enough power to keep in the fight: dodging the tracer streams and getting a few shots in myself. I never achieved what I felt were out 'n out victories. In each case the 109's dove away streaming white smoke, and I never followed them down. Much later I was credited with 1.00 kills, but I never saw the aircraft actually crash. I suspect they each made it back and I got the so-called "kill" when they despawned, or they simply ditched in order to respawn immediately. Dunno.

So, my first thoughts are that the IIa (in my incompetent hands) is roughly the equal of the 109; the Ia is badly lacking in oomph. But I hasten to add I need more time in the Ia to fully assess it, properly.

Great read Snapper. I've been waiting for some info from the "red" side.
So, all and all, is the IIa up to expectations or there's still something missing?

I can tell that the 109 is about the same as before with two exceptions:
1.- The rudder is not as "touchy" as with the previous beta
2.- It now goes from a turn to a flat spin without any warning in between, however, it's either easier to recover (i.e 1000m against 4000m before) or I learned how to do it :)

ATAG_Colander

Eh>?

The 109 Rudder is better and the 109 always talks to you before the stall which you can now get out of with out 2000m's of falling.

Were not using the Spit IIa in our campaign since we changed to the 100 octane variants. There seem to be no complants yet so they must be ok (except starting them).

My initial impression is that BOTH the 109 and the IIa are too slow at sea level, but by roughly the same amount. Personally, I wouldn't want the IIa any faster unless the 109's speed was adjusted upward to its historical value as well. Besides wanting the IIa and 109 to be historically accurate performance-wise for the sake of accuracy, it means from a gameplay aspect both fighters can reach altitude a little quicker, closing speeds on enemy bombers are faster, and headons with opposing fighters that much scarier. :)

The Ia is too slow, IMHO at this early point, in that it shouldn't be that much slower than the IIa. If the IIa and the Ia are not superior to the 109's, they should at least be a very serious threat. I did shoot down a vulching 109 at Hawkinge while flying a IIa. He certainly knew I was there because he dodged my poorly-aimed tracers as I overshot him. He could've escaped at that point while I was reversing to re-engage (as any smart experten 109 pilot would), but this 109 opted instead to make another strafing run. This gave me the time I needed to come around and line him up -- something that we couldn't do with our nerfed RAF fighters pre-patch. I don't believe the current patched Ia has the performance to effectively counter a boom & zooming 109 strafing its home airfield, but I certainly found the patched IIa does.

I had one sortie today in the 100-octane Rotol, thanks to your air start at Eastchurch. It feels like it has similar performance at sea level to the earlier Rotol (retail 1.15950 version) -- except in the current version you go to 12 lbs overboost to get up to ~270 mph (with noise, vibration, and possible blown engine at 3000 rpms) where before you got the same speed at 6.25 lbs boost, 2500/2600 rpms - no vibration and you could maintain that speed for a whole gas tank. I helped shoot down a Stuka that was attacking Ramsgate; the Hurricane seems to hold steadier than a Spit while firing -- but that might only be my imagination. I then proceeded on to Dover and managed to ram Bliss' dawdling 109 from behind. Actually, he backed up into me -- a new maneuvre for the 109 with this latest patch, I believe. I'd be interested to hear JTDawg's take on the 100-octane Rotol.

Again, take everything above with a grain of salt based on initial trials of aircraft in an online combat environment. I haven't yet taken any of these RAF a/c into a rear area to give 'em a serious going over, with careful checks of instrument readings.

That's basically what I said :) with the exception of the warning. I feel the vanilla version warned a lot more and the beta version is more susceptible to flat spin just by pulling the stick "a bit more".

Maybe just I need to get used to the new hints the plane gives as I don't tend to fly in that side of the envelope.

ATAG_Colander.

The 109 has always had a very vocal airframe just like real life. Then again Ive been flying it along time. Just listen though she will talk to you, you only have to listen. ;)

RAF COs - MISSION 3
 

RAF COs please see my mission 3 post under Offcers Mess.

Thank you.

Well i agree with Snapper ,the Rotol is a pig , With no climb, an not much of a turner anymore Where you use to be able to get on a 109 in 3 to 4 turns , 109s can stick with you , an even turn in side of you, so completely opposite of what it should be,. Before i felt going into a fight even with E4 I had aleast a 50-50 chance , It is not the bird of prey anymore !! IT is the prey . run to hard for a min or to ,an bam the death shake . I cant even say it's a good gun platform anymore since ,i quit flying it except for campainge , Being a true rotol lover it just kills me to see this happen to her shame! shame! shame! But if they ever fix her i'll be back in a heart beat :(

Roger m8

RAF COs please see:

http://sowc.forumotion.co.uk/t61-rad...sibilities#432

Was pretty smooth this week but cant help but feel like target practice for 109 in spit 1a and hurri. Both of the missions i played in were ju87's coming in low with fighters diving on them. Left us with no chance of fighting them off. Need spit2 imo oly red aircraft that can compete with 109.

Or am i missing the point? Is it supposed to be like this?

You actually saw Stuka heading North "low"? Or heading South low after an attack? Someone else said this and checked the waypoints. None of the Stuka way points are low before the attack. They are only low after the attack, when they have dived, andare escaping.

Same difference mate. The earliest report of ea we had was off the coast of deal a bit south (east of dover). We headed towards dover from littlestone and saw 87's attacking hawkinge with 109's perched nicely above them. And even if we were level it doesnt make a difference. Cant follow 109 in spit 1 or hurri all they have to do is pull up and roll over. Makes it near impossible to cover eachother if cant geet anywhere near the speed of a 109

Just feels like it set up for blue to kill reds in helpless planes while we try to kill ai's and not being able to engage real pilots

Sorry to sound like im whining as never done it here before.

Please understand I cannot convey emotion well in this text and that I am not "laying down the law" or trying in anyway to be rude or "tell you how it is". I am only trying to explain so that you can make sense of it. ;)

You might think so but from a mission making point of view and from what was said I dont think it is, that stukas made a low level attack, I thought there was a problem. The way I read it the stuka came in at say 500m's and just skip bombed, however this was not the case, they came in at a standed stuka height and dive bombed before escaping on the deck which is completely realistic. I was lead to believe something was going wrong in the mission.

Ive checked the mission waypoints and they are correct and it has also been confirmed by witnesses that the low level part was the stuka escaping after their attack.

Well thats tactical. The blue mission was a frei-jagd. We didnt find anything until we (5./JG27 anyway) found the Stuka. Personally I didnt see one single enemy fighter.

We cannot control or alter the flight models made by MG.

We tried to make it historically and realisticly accurate. As was noted before in the explination of the campaign "for those that wish to score it" where the "who wins" and "who loses" explination was given. As we all know, the Luftwaffe will "lose". So for me personally its really the experience of it that holds any value.

Perhaps your feeling like an RAF fighter pilot in August 1940? Stretched to the limit and frustrated?

If you have any suggestions, please send me a PM. I promise to read it but I dont promise to act on it.

I spoke with you on ATAG TS3 before and you seemed reasonable. Just remember, Ive tried to make this as enjoyable but also realisticaly and historically accurate at the same time. I cant please everyone.


I think you will see the blues having a tougher time of it over the next four missions. ;)

Dont get me wrong mate i still enjoy it and appreciate the efforts you goin through. Just makeing the point that i (and lot of the others that were on ts) cant fight 109's in those junk planes. The target is the bombers. If it is done so we cant engage fighters then i understand.

I am a reasonable person, just some feedback that all. Dont think writing this makes me unreasonable does it? Sorry if it came accross that way

You can engage ALL TARGETS of oppurtunity! - just like a real war! ;)

No it didnt come across wrong. I just wanted to understand and be understood. :-P

Talk on ts later mate language barrier here dont want you getting wrong idea about what im saying

shot down three hurricanes yesterday....killed two pilots, and i shot off the left wing of the third hurricane, and the pilot bailed...yet i didnt get the credit for even one kill...no points whatsoever.

normally when playing online, i dont even look at the stats, but here in the campaign, i recognized, that you guys made a really really nice and detailed stats page, just like it was on warbirdsofprey server in 1946...so its a shambles that its not working correctly.
if i looked at the stats of the pilots i killed, there it was recognized that i killed them actually, but still, i dont get any credit for it...well, it was fun yesterday, but i think it was not that much fun for the red side.my impression was, that the amount of blue pilots was higher than on the red side.furthermore, the majority of red pilots were in hurricanes, which is a sitting duck,....maybe they need more targets(bombers) to have as much fun as the blue side.

Thats because it IS the WoP stats generator by WW. The server admin is looking into the problem. The important thing is we have the raw database! So we should be able to establish everything, its just how the its being interpretated isnt quite right at the moment.

We'd love to give the reds more bombers to shoot at but we cant as it would make their game a power point presentation. Weve scaled it back from what we originally intended to use. :(

We would have also have liked to have more clouds :(

personally i wouldnt recommend clouds,..on atag, we get many lags through to them and besides, have a look at this:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33140