Don't forget, coops also doesn't need a middleman, e.g. ATAG, to be played.;)

Oh so the engagement itself is historical or can be made to be historical but everything else about it is not? I think I understand now. Sounds like fun.

How well do IL2 Coops work without Hyperlobby?

Hasn't Luthier stated that it is possible to play coops at the moment? I think what we need is for the developers to make a coop template if it is possible with basic scripting put in place. That way we would be able to see what the developers think the coop entails and people can say how different it is to what they understand. I know that the GUI is editable (as someone talented made a pilot career interface). There is also a "lobby" menu in the multiplayer section, along with the ability to press "start battle" in the mission owners lobby so that suggests to me it is possible to create a 1946 style coop though I may be mistaken. It seems that hosting a mission in the lobby (not the client section to join already started servers) mean you can have everyone join and then wait before starting the mission which people seem to want. I dont know about a statistics page, though there are triggers that check % ground targets destroyed and you can track kills as shown by the pilot career so it should be possible, just will need people (or perhaps the developers) to implement it.

Again, the lack of documentation seems to be the problem here, along with a lack of missions. A simpler, more responsive GUI would go a long way, unfortunately that will be a sequel thing (I seem to remember Luthier saying it was in the works for BoM).

Don't do it, David. All this 3rd party stuff that made things possible should obviously be in the game from the get go. Duh!

Just saying Dave, just saying....:)

P.S With regards to the subject of the thread, go ahead! keep alienating players for CoD and future installments. I'm sure new people will start streaming to the online servers aaaany day now, lol! As soon as they realize the errors of their ways, playing traditional coops in this case.

Nice troll

You just said that coops don't need a middle man. Well, it appears that that is not true. They need Hyperlobby.

By the way, no one is saying that dogfight servers are just like coop servers. What has been said is that most of the functionality of coop servers can be done with the current mission editor.

What is this supposed to mean? If the forum warriors spent less time trying to attack those that actually help this game and went out and learned some things about it themselves, there's be much more content all over the place for missions, COOPs, and the likes.

Well, they're certainly not streaming to the RoF coop servers. Those are packed with crickets.

Really? You just made an accusation saying that I was against a better COOP interface. I even asked you to quote me where I was saying that. You're the troll here. Grow up or better yet post some factual information next time.

If you want to help this game you should start pleading for a traditional coop gui and all that goes with it instead of trying to make people "realize" how wrong they are in liking a certain style/type of online play.

Are we still talking about IL-2 here or...?

Bliss, could i have a email addy as i dont have anywhere to host the file.

BTW you want to take back where you said i was full of it and couldn't open the FMB or place a object?

Perfectly well you can use the in game browser.

addman, you're clearly another one that needs to learn how to read. The 1st point/jab for or against coop in this thread was made by Alpha not me. Perhaps tell him to keep his COOPing vs DF server out of threads and it won't happen.

And why would I be pushing for a traditional COOP gui? Someone that wants to make one will just do that. Make one.

As David said. Lets see how many people we can join in a COOP through the in game MP window of IL2 vanilla. Good luck.

No one is bullying. Are you his doctor? Is he under your care? We've noticed a pattern here. It's very concerning.

For the 3rd time. Attach the mission to the forum. If you need help with the attach button then I'm sorry.

Bliss has stated in the past that he absolutely HATES CO-OP. In the event that a proper CO-OP GUI was in place, ATAG probably wouldn't host any CO-OP servers, and more than likely lose some players to CO-OP. Not too good for a server that relies on donations I suppose. IMO

Yes, that explains why no one uses Hyperlobby.

I know it, they know it, everybody knows it.

I'm talking about flight sims with lots of the same users.

Yeah but I'm talking about IL-2.

P.S Gotta go watch the hockey now, enjoy your fruitless arguing.

Uses it for what ?

How are donations for your coop server?

The server doesn't rely on donations, obviously they help. But if the goal is met, I still pay almost $100 out of my own pocket every month regardless.

Good try though!~

Ad1: Yes, people really do and did wait for orders before going over the top and have been shot for not doing so. As you put it: Haha them.
Ad2: drivel. You may be trying to make a point, but I haven't found it yet.
Ad3: Yes, it has to be made. The point being, in CLOD it's made badly.
Ad4: I've never used a DOS box to start a mission; but then I live in the 21'st century, not the 20.th. However, I take and gratefully accept your delineated point that dog fight and coop servers are two different entities.
Ad5: I imagine you're not making a fuss because you have the motivation and skills to manipulate the software in a way that suits you; and you're happy in your relative isolation. Good for you! I can only add that such an attitude is what's made 'Nix such a force in the desktop market today. Tell me, do you do most of your "stuff" via the CLI and can't imagine why any one would use anything less efficient?

No, forget the last, I'm not that interested in your opinion anyway.

I'm sure that you could make a coop. I'm sure that lots would love it if you did. I'm sure that merely cloning a VM and starting up another session won't be a big issue, so why not put your limited funds up against your limitless physical communications interface and run a coop as you see fit?

Then we could judge your undoubted technical prowess against the average 15 year old with a bit of imagination and passion.

They may not have understood the finer points of C## (or is it D flat?) programming, but they sure seemed to pack 'em in on an average hyper lobby evening.

Just make sure to really make it really real. I find it calming to count the rivets on the cowling of the plane next to me while I watch the disembodied seating arrangements of bomber formations floating over head, followed by their close escort skimming the grass through the forest. Before the CTD. In glorious mono.

Organizing coops. Isn't the lack of a lobby one of the big complaints about CoD?

He did state that in the other thread.

I still think that more functionality especially the simple kind will draw more people in and ATAG would even benefit rather than suffer.

More players can only be a good thing.

Huh ?

You should find a better outlet for your anger and resentment other than making a career out of being a troll.

from who

The professional complainers who post on this board.

Name them

Sorry, I stand corrected. No one wants a CoD lobby. They can just randomly enter Coop style mission servers and wait for them to fill up.

Than maybe you can explain why anytime someone mentions wanting a proper GUI for CO-OP you come in with flamethrowers flowing? How is making more options and making CO-OPs more friendly bad for the game? You claim your for making the game better.

i was wondering...having a game browser list in il2 never worked.we all relied on 3rd party places like UBI and HL.

the game has had performance issues from the start.Is it possible that this game client that is built in to the game engine be causing the performance hits??The Client server has to talk to the game for each person that joines regardless of what server they prefer.This makes sence if you think about it. With all the far distance landscaping the engine needs to generate with all effects and such it seems to much for the game itself to have a server clien engine running at the same time. What would happen if that server list was gone and we relied on our old ways of 3rd party lobbies?This could free up resources in the game itself.Can someone of importance look into this please?

this is not no little sandbox or tiny call of duty maps.having the server client list removed would even help with bandwidth.who needs it if it does not have the features we need?

can a dev look into this please... thank you.

Force - My flameflowers come in when people come in and say COOPs are more realistic than a dynamic environment of the DF world. And if you could or would read anything I've said, I've always stated the more options for online the better.

I think some people read, but don't have the comprehension part down yet.

This is what I've been saying all along. Servers connect as a client. I don't know of one steam game where servers do that besides IL2COD.

Hyperlobby has a CoD lobby already.

As there's no Coop mode it's dysfunctional

As the Steam Cod servers are unstable for DF servers its also dysfunctional.


All the clients lists close when you join a server the same way HL closes when you are in a mission/server.
As for tracking Steam users in game ( i think your meaning this ) it has a timed refresh rate I would imagine.




.

Mission

The problem isn't that there is no coop mode, the problem is that no one is running missions set up to mimic the IL2 coop style missions. Bliss says it can be done. Is he lying?

Then why don't you just state that a proper CO-OP GUI etc. would be good for the game and put it to rest? We know co-op is not your thing, and thats fine. For some, your type of DF server where you get strafed while warming up your engines on the runway isn't for everyone, and that should be fine with you. The point is trying to get the people that still fly the old IL-2 on HL over to COD, is it not? The numbers for old IL-2 are still 3 to 4 times more than the online numbers for COD. Having a proper CO-OP would be a step in getting those people over to COD, wouldn't it?

Does anyone know what the "lobby" menu is for, if not coops?

So when can you host the COOP Bliss?

I think that it is for Coop, not sure. Last time I looked the 2 lobby's that were up seemed to be squad members only. You could create your own though

It seems you are missing the point. The opinion of coop games being more realistic is not the dominating one. Coop is just a set of features that gained much popularity with IL2 and Hyperlobby. I`d even say that the entire IL2 squad lobby depended on it more or less. Less being generic training internal coops, more being full blown online wars with planning and dynamic campaign.

A big part of IL2 community is waiting for that to happen. If you can provide that, please do. As it been said before, people seem to have trouble with managing the FMB and creating 3rd party software to recreate the classic IL2 coop events. You keep saying that it is here and now but somehow there is no such one of a plce (like HL) where people gather to chat and select slots to organise coop rooms. In my view we are clearly missing a specific interface which wasn`t made, but the DF servers live and prosper. Why? It is not just problems with CloD stability. It is problems with a normal user being able to host a classic IL2 coop mission along with slots for other people to join and select their aircraft. You are correct about the 3rd party creating online wars in the past, but classic coop fans (I am using the word 'classic' as people like you clearly understand co-op missions as something different) don`t exactly require for that to happen here and now. Simply a GIU for setting up a simple coop mission would work for now. Yet that is not happening.

+1 which is what ive been trying to get across for months, though for saying it "im full of ****" a liar and dont have the intelligence to work the FMB "I doubt you'd even know how to place an object let alone ever even opened up the FMB"

mission for you here Bliss.

So when can you host the COOP? with a briefing screen, loadout screen and debrief screen, plus a 1 min turn around where we swap sides and go again as in the IL2 GUI.

It is also for those who is behind a router and can not host in the Server room.

see? learn something new everyday.If i had someone to ask in real time i would have known that a long time ago. LOL

:grin:

Get on ATAG TS3 server. People are too lazy to type in chat now :)

He did not say "as in the IL2 GUI" :)

Bliss is right that coop gameplay can be experienced in CloD now.

Others are right that it is more difficult and less convenient than in original IL-2 and therefore can not be as popular as it was till it is improved. IMO.

I agree with Bliss that if we only wait and do not help people like Banks with his project that includes coop gui the wait will be very very long. It is really hard for those who does something every day to improve CloD to understand those who only waits on the forums and vice versa.

yes sir it works,I was able to pick a slot and as host launched, so did I when testing. :grin:

I just tested Furbs Coop and I was able to launch it from Multiplayer>Lobby.
I could join others "Lobby games and select a plane so Im assuming that others could have joined and grabbed a plane slot in Furbs coop mission that I ran.

Its a little clunky but it works and I can see that you ideally need a timer delay set for action to start so people have time to select a plane before the battle begins. Even without the timer though if you have the teams far enough apart everyone will have time to find a plane anyway as AI will fly them until you jump into one.

I was able to swap planes from within the game to AI controlled aircraft and also from the mission briefing screen.
There is a chat system built in so I dont really see the problem other than it being a bit more clunky. Sure you cant recruit pilots in the same way as HL but it works. When more people come back to CLOD once the final graphics patch and bugs are ironed out I think you will find plenty of people to fly coop from the lobby. We just need to get the word out how to do it as its not very intuitive and there's no instructions. The other option is the gui that Banks has made. I tested it also with Furbs coop and it seemed to launch ok. I cant say whether anyone could join though because there wasnt anyone around.

I also tested a couple of the new missions by Heinkill from his operation sealion and they seem to launch ok and provide plane slots with objectives and briefing for all the different flight groups.

Ill post some screenies and a couple quick vids of Furbs Co-op in action.
More in the next post.

Continued...

When you 1st enter the plane in Co-op - I enabled Auto pilot for these clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOR3vUKONGo


Co-op in-game footage - again using auto pilot for my plane and flicking around the views.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bskho_Ibwd4

Are u testing now Phat? il try and join.

I will be back a bit later, I have to feed my daughter and get her to bed so give me about an hour or so.

Ok let me know when, so we have at least established i can place a object on the map. :)

So the Lobby was the Coop all this time?...like a year:confused:

Lots of time you would get an error message when trying to select some planes, so it didn't really work. But yes, it's been here from day 1.

I am not in to coops myself and can not be sure but I think there is still a WPF.Unavailable error appears in plane list if planes are located further than 20 km from bottom left corner of the map (initial player position when player joined server). Did not test with the recent mini-fix but in the 1st alpha I still saw WPF.Unavailable error.

To overcome this you can:
1) use Banks coop lobby which also allows simultaneous AI and players start or
2) place 1 - 4 SpawnAreas within 20 km radius from desired aircraft groups as suggested by Bliss above. In this case all players will:
- spawn in TigerMoths at spawn area within 20 km radius from desired planes
- switch to desired aircraft without error now
A 2 minutes delay can be included into the mission to allow everyone to join and spawn in TigerMoths first.

Both are not hard at all when you do it once. 3 button or mouse presses literally.

Another advantage of Banks script is that you can take any SP mission and play it as a coop without editing IIRC. Mission collection is also available at the forums.

I have a coop game running if anyone is around and would like to try it and see if we can get it to work.

Here's a couple of screenies of me and Furbs mucking around in coop.
We had at least 100 aircraft spawned maybe 200 i lost count.
I spawned about 4-5 waves and it was fine, it wasnt until about 10 waves of aircraft that it started to lag. ;)

It definitely works using the spawn points solution above by Ataros!
Its not ideal but once you have a few people trained up how to do it you could have a blast. I didnt try the GUI by Banks but will do that another day!

Yes, was fun! it works sort of, but its still not practical for proper COOPs...yet.

Banks GUI might help but at the moment its a bit of a hack up job and trying to more than a couple of people off the street in with out comms would be a nightmare.

It doesn't change the fact we still need a new developers GUI, it doesn't have to be a IL2 GUI, just something that makes life as easy to work with and run.
The way it is now its no way as good or easy to run as a IL2 "style" COOP, no proper briefing, pick plane, loadout or de-briefing screens means its not really a COOP more of a "join a single mission in progress" mission with work arounds.

As i said Banks GUI might help, we will need to test that as well first.

Was fun to see 200 planes flying at the same time though...even if they were flying sideways and with out wings at one point :)

Big thanks to Phat for helping test and hosting!

I have Banks gui installed if you want to give it 1 quick go?

ok Phat.

This is what Bliss said earlier in the thread.

This is what they do in RoF, DCS and IRL as seen on Youtube :)

As of nightmares I would not call a 3 step instruction a nightmare:
1. Spawn in a TigerMoth similar to any DF server
2. Hit ESC.
3. Double-click a desired plane in the list.
:)

Depends on point of view probably :)

I agree that GUI needs to be done but coop-lovers do not have to wait for it to have some fun now :)

If you try Banks script please give him feedback and bugreports in his thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559

Here are some missions you may want to try with it http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=30908

Thanks Ataros and Bliss for the advice.
Furbs and I got the Banks coop GUI going just fine and it was a lot easier so we will do it again probably tomorrow same time. We had a blast. Not one crash and really smooth! Looks like the clients have to log out and back in again between the missions but thats not too bad! ;)

With Banks GUI things are easier by far to get going, perfect? a proper COOP? useable for online COOP wars? no.
But for having a blast with mates who want quick fights with lots of planes in a more historical set up?...YES!
Very easy to join and fly, it has bugs and some work arounds are needed but at least it works.

Had a couple of great dogfights with Phat and we worked through some of the problems and managed to get it all working ok in the end.

Do we still need the developers to fix things?, yes for online wars we need more help and a better system for reasons ive already mentioned.

thanks again Phat...oh...nice landing and Friendly AI kills ;)

FYI I just tested and it is possible to get a group together in Hyperlobby Coop and then launch the game from hyperlobby, setup the server, then launch Banks GUI and then launch the mission.

Ill do some test missions tomorrow for whoever is around.

Here's the Banks Coop GUI Guide, you can find the download there too along with installation instructions. Basically the host just installs it into your missions folder under 1C softclub and launch it to select the mission. (Only the host needs to have it installed.) http://code.google.com/p/il2coop/wiki/UserGuide

Yes it sure does work I also tested it a week ago. The main limitations are:

a) Finding opponents, the lack of a 'lobby' is an issue but Banks was discussing (with you?) writing some kind of web based lobby....I don't really understand but I can get the jist of it. Basically something that works a bit like hyperlobby.

b) Selecting load outs cannot be done but they can be written in to the mission if you get them prior to the mission start. I think also it would not be practical to have more than one loadout per side so anyone with a special flavour of ammunition they like or funny convergences will have to suck it up.

I think it's pretty cool though and great that Banks took the time to figure that stuff out.

As I mentioned above it appears that you can use hyperlobby coop slots as the "Lobby" and then launch the game from HL before loading Banks mission scripts to load the actual mission. Its a work-around on a work-around but I could certainly get it working easily enough when I tried it tonight.

Oh that would be very cool.

I'll be very interested in knowing how that went.

Thanks for the info

Well sounds like a win win for the Coop heads.:grin:

Adjusted mission.

Furbs, say this ain't your room...you Coop guys are different.. lol

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...hatthehell.jpg

I like Phat.....but were not that close. ;)

I used to fly on hl a lot back in the day. The program looks old, but it works well for its purpose. It made finding your squads and friends super easy.

Something that would be a great addition for CoD would be a translation program. Mainly english/russian, as the players are divided into two main time slots on lots of servers. If hl could do that too it would be great. cheers