uh... it's the other way around, isn't it? 'xcept not flying in the Crimean! CoD is a fun study simulation where you have more than 1 plane to select, but real combat squadron action is certainly lacking. Well, let's see what the future brings! :rolleyes:

me too

http://images.imagehotel.net/2r84xegfdh.jpg

the game has aged quite badly, we really need some fresh air in this industry

Rofl! :grin:

I hope this is a joke A10C DCS looks nothing like this!

or is that all your computer can handle?

Just so other know it looks like this

DCS World P51D Bail out
 

this is ingame footage and not animation actual physics bail out in the game

http://youtu.be/C5CzEsTHtGc?hd=1

oh gosh, i'd better reinstall the drivers

And with such attention to detail they have no made the correct animation.:o
The pilot must roll on the wing.

Hitler should realize the P51 won the Battle of Britain, Midway, Battle of the Coral Sea as well as Pearl Harbor and the Doolittle Raid. Oh ... and also Kursk and Stalingrad.

Well that's a really fair assumption. :rolleyes:

Jeez, these ATAG guys are embarrassing themselves with their DCS trashing.

They're different games fellas, relax. I've spent many an enjoyable hour in a Ka-50 and an A-10, DCS is an excellent game. I absolutely love IL2 too. They're not mutually exclusive, or really even competitors, so your server or whatever won't be hurt by DCS any time soon.

What's with the territorial jousting, people? What's the point of that? I admit I have no use for "vacuum cleaner sims" but I don't see a point in all those "my sim is better than your game" bashing contests. Aren't we all flight sim nuts?

ATAG means there all pro and stuff lols. :rolleyes:

We are hardly embarrassing ourselves. You come to an IL2 forum in an update thread and start talking about a different sim and expect people not to say their opinion on why they don't like it? Please check the last time I've gone to ED forums to advertise anything about IL2. You won't find it. Let alone in a dev update thread for a completely different game. I have never liked the DCS series one bit, and I'm entirely entitled to that opinion regardless of whoever you are and your 18th post on this forum think.

@Thor we are all flight sim nuts. But us MP guys, like them for different reasons. IL2 has been about the only franchise that has ever come close to true flight sim nirvana for people like me.

You do go on like your all ELITISTS makes me laugh. :-P

let's getting serious
 

a random guy started again a flame war by saying
"ED has blown COD out of the water with the release of just one plane"
which is ridiculous, so the ATAG guys stepped into and so on

Cod is the only game suffering of blatant provocations on is on forum and main topic, this has to stop !

So quit mocking the game here at first and everything will be fine

You elitist scum you ;)

show me a better server about a WW2 battle of britain and i'll gladly join ;)

The canopy flew away like it was on rockets and did you see the pilot dolphin dive out of the plane using only his buttocks?

:-P

Watch the real thing here.It shows the canopy flying up and away clearer in the slowed down replay 1 min 20 onwards.
Watch it all to give you a sense of time involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xctYW...eature=related

Yeah but theres no doubt in DCS the canopy is modelled to blow away like it has explosive devices when in reality it slides back on its rails.

You guys are debating the modelling of how the canopy flies off the plane? In an early beta version? Seriously?

:grin:

BTW flew the P-51 online for 3 1/2 hrs last night with my buddies and had a blast. Take-offs and landing, formation flying, ground attacks and dogfighting, good fun!

Really looking forward to more 3rd-party devs starting to create content for DCS world. If the quality is on par with what I've seen so far I'd happily pay 40 bucks for each new plane.

At $40.00 a plane People will only buy the ones their attached too. Competitive people will only buy the best to rack up their scores.

If it was the $8.00- $15.00 that RoF charges then you'ld get people collecting them all.

Come to think of it if there were too many people willing to spend $40.00 how long would it take the ROF planes to start increasing in price?????

Downloadable content! You've gota love it! ;)

Get used to it beacuse it will be the only way soon

You are not wrong!

I haven't bought it yet, and probably won't buy it soon, but I am interested in one thing. Can someone try diving from 7000m in DCS and in IL2 1946 and post your impressions?

Just be another thing that we get screwed over with...gone the days of paying for a title and that's that..

Someone is their wisdom decided to charge us for Gucci stuff and we paid for it as being gamers we always want the best we can get with addons and extra content..

At the end of a Titles life span youd probably spend 2-3 times if not more than what the base release cost and thats all it will be originally..a platform

Just as a side not incase it hasnt already been mentioned, you can download the Su-25T for free, you dont even have to purchase the P-51D to get it, just download the P-51 package, it will install DCS World, which gives you the Su-25T. Now its more like a Flaming Cliffs level plane, but if you own A-10, BS2 (which these both will be compatible next patch) or P-51, you can fly multiplayer with.

Coming soon on a social network near you.

P51 the facebook flash game.

Totally free to play.

(note: ... 0.50 cal for use in this game is currently $US5 for 100 rounds of incendiary or AP. Special deal, buy 1000 rounds and get 500 rounds of tracer for free, 87 octane fuel is $US5 for 10 gallons, 100 octane $US10 for 10 gallons)

Common guys, nobody ever critizised the FM of a blackshark or an A10 and compared it to real life behaviour, like we do here on cod. I doubt, that even it all has a "military simulator" in its history, that the ED engine has that powerful and up to date FM integrated.

Think about the requirements of the military to train people? They always say, that simulating flight aspects is always too difficult to simulate. They need it to train the brain of the pilots and to train the systems and what to do in different conditions. The FM is not as important for the military as the fully functional cockpit instruments. It is not a very detailed flight simulator, but is a highly detailed systems simulator.
I doubt, that the FM is taken as serious as it is taken for CloD. CloD with its old rudimentary systems cannot compete by nature with such a grade of clickable procedures. The main topic in ww2 aircraft is to manage flight technical things by ear, eyes, and the few gauges in a cockpit. You need much more flight dynamic accuracy, than u need in a fully autopilot computer controlled aircraft with a bunch of helping mechanisms.

So in my view, dcs will never reach comparable flight dynamics to CloD. But this is also not the intention of such a sim. It has other things to care of.

So i doubt, that the flight feeling of p51 will reach the p51 in clod, as soon as it is there. I have never flown a sim like the il2 series, where you have the same feeling of really having air under the wings.

It is matter of priorities, but I think the classics collection in dcs will not reach il2 series. They will have their enormous potential in newer aircraft with weapon systems to simulate.

Hope, they will get some life into the sims, because it always has a strange dead feeling, when u just flying around! Not to speak about the missions.

Not only do I think your right..

But I hope your right!

For several reasons.. One selection, Two cash flow for devs to do more, And last but not least.. Charging ~$40/plane has a 'flitering' effect.. And by filter I mean it tends to exclude the kid-os which in turn tends to exclude the brain dead team killing plane ramming types! ;)

Agreed 100%!

Most military flight simulators don't bother traning ACM.. It is all about the systems.. So there is a chance that the DCS FM may be lacking in realism.. Too soon to tell but I hope we are wrong..

If this P51 goes well for DCS.. Who knows.. They may shift thier focus a little? I hope so because their game engine is top notch!

Back on topic

I got online last night.. Was able to start the engine.. Was able to taxi out to the runway.. But wow.. Three trys Three FAILS to get off the ground! I think my problem is I don't know how to lock the tail wheel? Once she gets a little side motion going I try to correct and induce one hell of a PIO and wammo.. This game makes me feel like a NOOB! ;)

I found out the same way, it seems you really need to keep the stick back on its stops untill about 100mph then you can ease off, by then the AC will be lifting off so be carefull not to stall, also 5-6 degrees right rudder trim but be prepared to bias some left pedal on the roll, smoothly go to full power....do not slam it open, works for me 100% now.

I recall reading somewhere that holding the stick back on some planes does lock the tail wheel.. I wonder if that is what goes on here?

correct. hold it back till 100 mph then if requiring 2 wheel take off (tail rising) allow tail to rise naturally and apply rudder, if requiring 3 wheel take off, keep applying back presure.

Do the training for take-off once, it is a big help.

Finally!

I figured out why she was swaying too and froo.. My dam wheel breaks are not realising all the way.. I used the KB W key and that did the trick.. Guess Ill need to figure out how to filter my slider rudder breaks?

I think its Right Control + SHift to show a controls display, might be helpful for you till you get it all worked out, been helpful for me...

Yeah that is what I used to notice my breaks were sticky! S!

you need pedals with brakes...;)

That is what I got.. The saitek combat rudder soemthing or other.. the pricy ones! I was suprised to seem them not fully letting go.. Ill have to try and filter that out

Press R control+Enter and it brings up a screen showing control inputs, you will get an idea of what brake forces you are applying.

Just finished some online DF

PROs.. best 'system' simulated P51 combat flight simulator todate
CONs.. Something that has been a downfall of all DCS sims since the orginal LockOn

warping

And I am just not talking about the warping you will see when airborn.. but planes warping around on the tarmak!

Thus I don't think 1C has anything to worry about wrt DCS taking 1st place in the WWII market.. In that if DCS has not fixxed that major problem in the past 10 years, they are not likly to fix it any time soon

As for the FM.. it's beta so I wont rip it too bad.. but I will say this, I hope they 'fix' it soon!

I can imagine the DM being a bit shyte as well?

I have allways shy away from commenting on the 'realism' of a DM

Why?

Well because there is no real way to test it and thus no way to prove it

For example.. Can you find me the test report that shows the top speed of a P51 with three 20mm holes in the right wing, that are 13" back from the leading edge and 1 ft away from the wing tip in a grouping patern hole of 1.4 ft with an entrance angle of 60 degrees and and exit angle of 30 for two shells and 33 for one shell

See what I mean?

In short all comments on DMs ar opinion based, based on a summary of pilot reports.. Problem is people tend to forget these pilot reports are those pilots that made it back from combat to write the report! ;)

About the only thing that can be tested for are structural limits.. You know at top speed the wings tend to come off types of tests

Long story short, we have to trust the sim maker knows what he is doing when he simulates the DM

from what I understand the company has a P51 of their own to work with.

They have all the aircraft of the fighter collection to work with.

yes they do!

That is cool..

I wonder if they would let me to shoot the 20mm cannon at the wing of thier P51 to see how the well real world damage matches thier DM simulation! ;)

<double post> ... mods delete this one

ACES ... I'm intruged by your comments about the DCS FM. What did you find should be fixed and what are you comparing it too?

I'm not having a dig or anything, I'm just curious is all.

From my observations, I have to say I'm more impressed with CloD's DM, although as aces mentioned, there's no way to really prove it. Although I must say I have watched a lot of ww2 guncam footage and there are a lot of moments in CloD where it matches up eerily similar to some of that footage, and I just really can't get enough of it. I just don't ever get that feeling from DCS, but don't get me wrong, I'm loving the P-51D! :grin:

Too soon to tell.. No real formal test done.. but something just does not feel right.. I think alot of it may have to do with me having a FF stick but FF not supporte yet.

You guys who are flying theP-51 might want to go and check the DCS site. One of my squadmates just posted that there's an updated/ patched version available for download.

Can't check it out myself to see since I haven't pre-purchased it.

Yep! New beta availiable

changes
• Orange (missing texture) models.
• Crash on destruction of SAM units.
• Disappearance of payloads after game is un-paused game.
• New music.
• Manuals added to installer. \DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\P-51D\Doc\
• Crash on some mission starts.
• Multiplayer login problems.
• Repair aircraft by player request only.
• Control surfaces synchronized over network.
• Improved P-51D cooling system.
• Crash after sinking IFV BMP-3.
• Sound crackling.
• P-51D purchase icon added to DCS: World.

-----

Unfoirtunately its a new 5gig download and we need to uninstall the original Beta and reinstall. Pitty there isn't a patch file.

Oh well! Downloading vua bit torrent!

WOW!!! New Beta version Already??? that was quick!! Thanks for the HU.

glad some people know what they are doing. timely too and given holidays. no Bs here i tell yah. just straight up honest development.

Easy to do when you only have one aircraft and it's on a map that has been around since dinosaurs walked the planet.

I guess it's too much to ask for a realistic perspective on this forum.

I cant take you seriously El with that quote in your sig ;)

We all have our favorite plane.

Mine isn't chosen by how it performs in a video game.

:cool:

Agreed..mine isn't even in this video game ;)

Well it all boils down to quality vs. quantity, now doesn't it?

As for me, I prefer quality and am thus more than happy to purchase the DCS Mustang when it's ready (I'm allergic to betas) and THEN wait for other period content / AC to materialize. And if they don't, well, at least I've got an accurately modelled Mustang in my hangar ;)

YMMV of course, different strokes for different folks...

Yikes!

Well so much for the DCS WORLD approach to unification! ;)

I think Ill wait until they enable the FF.. Ah who am I kidding.. Ill start the dl now! ;)

LOL.. so true!

Actually, they have 2 aircraft and a helicopter all of which are modeled in excruciating detail. The time it took ED to model just the ka-50 nav system,ABRIS, and the a-10c targeting pod, they could probably crank out dozen of warbirds. No doubt oleg's games are pretty, but the fm is nothing to brag about from what I've been reading over the years.

I'm curious what doesn't feel right about the FM? I hope you're not comparing it to il2 simple fm.

Until the enable FF it will be hard to say

As simple as it may be, at least there were ways to formally test it

PS welcome to the forum newcommer!

Back on topic

Right in the middle of dl the new beta and the CoD patch posts!

This is going to be a busy weekend!! ;)

I'd love to see what this looks like while strafing rail engines? Does the DCS environment allow steam to be modelled out of the boilers?

Looks impressive but after studying the cockpit, it only looks about as detailed as the modded p-51's of the old IL2 so CloD has room to breath.

Maybe in 2017 I'll be able to fly a P-51 in CloD ;)

And mine is never likely to be in a computer game!

I still dont get how popular this is, well maybe I do, this is a forum of WW2 aviation enthusiasts, but I dont get ED's philosophy in releasing it for the DCS game world?

Good to hear about the DCS third party (ish) Mig 21 though, the Mig 21 could fit in to the DCS world, we had Mig 21's from somewhere excercising up here with our Tornado's not so long ago in real life.

Thanks, Ace. I love wwII and flew warbirds for years back in the days. I was really looking forward to getting into clod but this patch doesn't really boost confidence. I hate to say this but this beta patch seems like a scam or a stall tactic to me. Anyway, if their next title is the opposite of this debacle then count me in. Also, I'm not really new here. I've been coming here on and off for the past months, but the yellow theme really messed with my mind and I just couldn't bring myself to register. :D

I agree that the current terrain and graphics are loooooog in the tooth, though. We'll see what their new engine EDGE brings to the table.

I'm not sure what else you're expecting from a D stang pit, from the pics I've seen it looks right on. ED is owned by The Fighter Collection a company that owns the largest fleet of real warbirds in EU. They rebuild these machine to get them airworthy and fly them at airshows.

Clod should have room to breath since it's a dedicated wwII sim which DCS is not. Also, DCS P-51D is in beta.

Brand new stang pit will get some grime with mods soon i reckon. its the lack of character through heavy usage that makes it appear basic in comparison to those worn out superb cockpits of il2, some of the best graphics work ive seen tbh.

Ah warbirds.. I use to fly with the 900th! Good times!

Does seem to be a mixed bag for some.. Seems the folks that had problems before, such that they were very vocal, still have problems. Which leads me to belive it is something to do with their PC.. What with others seeing great improvements.

Really?

Well lets play detective for a moment.. As in a crime scene.. And ask yourself, what would be their motivation to spend time and money creating a scam? That is to say if they know it is not going to fix anything, what would they gain by providing a scam patch?

For me I see no up side in doing that, thus I don't see it as a scam as much as I see it for what it is

A beta patch

One that they themselves said has issues (disabled features) and are providing it for the sole purpose of getting feedback from the users (logs, dumpfiles). Now we can either be part of the solution here and provide our logs and dumpfiles or we can sit back and complain that this beta is not the final patch

SAVVY?

Which is true of all simmers! I always get a good laugh at those who are so upset that they say they are never going to buy anything made by 1C ever again.. Right! ;)

Well even with a few months under your belt your still 'new'! But I hear, ya, the yellow really takes some getting use to!

yes sir, same here, I have my DCS Mustang,, and she a real handful, a real beauty who is not another arcade sim... if you don't follow directions in the accurate modelling, you can't even take off or land.. or for that matter start it up.. it's pretty accurate...


and I too hope the next patch is just a patch, the 5 gb dance isn't fun...

This feels a whole lot better then CLOD both pre and post alpha/beta patch

Well as big EL said .. Easy to do when you only have one aircraft and it's on a map that has been around since dinosaurs walked the planet.

In short the DCS game engine has been around for a very Very VERY long time.. About as long as the orginal IL2 engine.. Thus they only have to focus on adding the plane..

Granted at the same time DCS has been strugling to combined all thier games into one for many years now.. And that day looks to be comming soon with the DCS World concept.. So there is that effort too.. But the point being DCS is simply adding to and tweaking a very old game engine.. Where as 1C is dealing with a totally new engine, graphics, dm, fm, etc

I'm pretty sure the DCS game engine was totally revamped during the development of the A-10C.

The landscape certainly does look dated compared to either CloD or RoF, but the engine itself isn't as old as some are saying.

They have a new landscape engine called EDGE in the works. The first map using it will be Nevada.

removed coz its far to off topic.

anyway new Ed engine looks like an excellent update last i seen of it..feel like ive been waiting for the nevada scenery forever though. im at a loss though for the links at ed, anyone remind me where they are? (the new engine)

I'm impressed with it...this FM is not an old one. In many ways, it's the most advanced one I've ever encountered. I'll write more when my gf isn't waiting on me at the dinner table.

Note that I haven't flow CLOD in about a year, but will tomorrow.

us that fly it know that, but it isn't worth banging the heads of those that think they know more..

IMHO

Revamped yes.. but not Replaced as is the case in IL-2 vs. CoD.

Agreed 100%

But it still looks good IMHO! More than good enough for a flight sim IMHO, but CoD has planes to do more than just flight.

Sorry if that is the impression you got from 'me' because that was not my intent. Even IL-2 got a few 'revamps' over the past 10+ years.. But the 'core' of it has not changed. The point I was making is it is much easier to add 'one' plane to an existing game engine. Which is what DCS has done with the P51. It is much Much MUCH harder to do what 1C is doing with CoD where everything is 'new'.. The planes, the maps, the graphics, the AI, the FM, the DM, etc.

In short sorry if I offended any die hard DCS users and or mods who post here.. That was not my intent, I simply wanted to put into prospective the difference between adding 'one' plane to an existing game engine and starting from scratch with a new game engine

Shouldnt be sorry, that is what ED is going for, a base game that is easy to add "modules" to, meaning planes, maps etc... That is their goal and we now see it coming to light. That said, they have a revamped graphics engine coming down the piple line as well....

Note I am not sorry about what ED is doing.. I think it is great! I know they have been trying to pull togther all thier products into one for some time now, this DCS world thing looks real good! What I was sorry for is if I ofended any of the DCS mods and or users who post here.. That was not my intent, I was simply pointing out to thsoe who are trying to use the DCS P51 as a way to beat up on CoD the difference in effort required to add 'one' plane to an existing game engine vs starting from scratch

The sim community is so touchy arent they :)

decided to see where one could go with that nice new cockpit of the p51`s pit. more light and some ageing. increased cannopy relfection also not seen here makes u feel inside the cockpit.

http://i.imgur.com/rhsRml.jpg

No apologies needed from what I've seen. As it is, my comment was certainly not aimed at any other poster in this thread specifically, but rather simply input on the topic under discussion.

I agree with you that what ED are trying to do is easier than creating a complete new product from scratch.

I'd also say that whilst making aircraft models as "plug-ins" for an existing envronment and game engine is potentially an excellent business model, it's not without it's dangers...... Some of which are highlighted in posts on this forums regarding the P-51: The plane is great..... But what can you do with it?

ED need to be very careful about how they plan their releases to avoid them ending up with a sim with a whole load of aircraft modelled in the highes detail that have no relation to each other. While flying a Spitfire or P-51 against FW-190's or Bf-109's is immersive, flying them against Su-25's is not no matter how realistic the aircraft model may be.

Not much... yet ;) But to my understanding there's a 3rd-party FW190 and a B17 in the works already.

there is a natural succesor to FSX 3rd party involvment in flightsims now. and one not so dissimilar to MS FLight. free to play base package with payware updates. except with ED u can rely on the best of the best.

what can you do with the p51 ? alot more than you can in Ms Flight. so yeah you can learn to fly a plane. for me its not just about the war. and comms do work :)

this was my first online sesh in p51 last night (inc my texture updates)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DyoSFrLmHk

now lets see was this better than the 101 hours spent in CLod. yes definetly so and including the crash. thats plane crash not desktop. forgive me but ive waited and waited, sorry 1C you just got trumped at your own game.

Support DCS P-51
 

Hi Guys. Strongly recommend you get the beta for the DCS P-51. It's absolutely fantastic. i've never played a "full switch" fsx type game before but am absoutely loving the workload of managing everything in the cockpit.

and the modelling just feels perfect. you really have to fight the aircraft to keep it steady under certain circumstances. and the sound of the 6x .50 cals is awesome (ricocheting tracers too).

go have a look. there's some new pix up of B-17s and FW-190 Ai being developed.

The more the sim and modding community support it the quicker the WWII/korean senarios will develop.

It looks interesting but unless it's a period WWII environment it's a no sale to me. The idea of putting the plane in a modern setting makes as much sense as an A-10 flying over WWI trenches. With the right environment the sim could be outstanding.

Erm...No, Ta.

As soon as I get the A-10 into the air and look around outside the cockpit, I wonder why I've just wasted 20mins of my life getting the thing off the ground.

It wouldn't make any difference if it was a P-51 or even a nice MkI Spit, the environment is still as cold as ice and worse in terms of 'realism' than the old IL2.

Doesn't get my vote. Apologies to the the fans. ;)

this a mod for CloD? how can you make a statement like that and not post a link??

all im waiting for is my trusty ol P40

link please!! :grin:

I already spent my budget on a beta game.

No 109=uninterested.

Yep gettin this as soon as I get home ( 2 days!) from what I've seen it looks fantastic, great modeling, sounds, cockpit, well worth the small cash investment, With the new US strike fighter that'll be next and the excellent MIG-21Bis nearing completion DCS is going to become an amazing sim platform.

It's very disappointing to see so many people ready to dismiss it out of hand instantly, I can understand that full fidelity sims is not everyone's cup of tea, but with such great reasoning as "No 109=uninterested " wonder the sim industry is on the down turn.

I bought it first day and I love it. I was skeptical at first (wrong theater, no WWII, etc), but it is such pleasure to fly it - it's simply undescribable. When I bought ClOD I thought that planes and feeling would be like these.

Why? Do you do things that you dislike?
I personally dislike the P-51 in every way it is possible to dislike an aircraft. Why on earth would I be interested in a simulation of it? Now bring on a full switch sim of the P47/P-40/109/190/P-38 etc etc, but the mustang is just awful.
Should we all buy stuff we have no intention of using just because its a sim? I think not.

Agreed. The most important thing is this beta works very well. It is going to have loads of content in the future. Its not even released and it works great OOTB. It has AA too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vvZw...ayer_embedded#

No of course not, when you explain why you wouldn't buy it like that, clear and with good logic I don't ever have a problem with it (not that it matters what I think in the end anyway I know), I guess that whole, not buying/trying It's not "insert favorite plane here" has always rubbed me the wrong way, it has always just seemed way too dismissive to me I think.

Although now that DCS world is being opened up to third party development I honestly think it'll end up with many of those great plane in it, fingers crossed.

Can't let that stand for the Hog. The missions and campaigns provided by the devs and the community are very well done and much better than CloDs stock campaigns/missions. Even the quick mission generator provides much fun.

Did you try the Georgian Hammer campaign? It's very, very alive and provides a great sense of being there and part of a combined arms force.

I do hope for a Korea setting for the P-51.